Would Amber have been better off done by Palladium?

[RPGPundit]

So in a recent RPG.net thread there's details about how Erick had originally tried to get Amber published by WEG, then it was almost published by R. Talsorian (to the point that they had made an announcement about it at Gencon, and that many think Dream Park was an eventual result of that whole situation), and that he thought about getting Palladium to publish it before eventually deciding to self publish.

Now, alternate history is always tricky, but let's look at what we do know: Erick, god rest his soul, published the Amber main book and the Shadow Knight sourcebook and then didn't manage to get any other major product out for the game for 15 years. Amber stayed in print for much of that time, sure, but it struggled increasingly with loss of momentum and eventually Erick sadly failed to effectively secure its future, leading to the current situation where its very likely that there won't be another edition of Amber for years to come, maybe ever, and even if it does someday come out fuck knows who will own the rights and what type of game they'll ultimately make.

meanwhile, whereas WEG and R. Talsorian both eventually tanked, Palladium was one of the great survivors of the 1990s and continues to produce games to this day.  We know Kevin Siembieda was one of Erick's closest friends, and always treated him with a deference no other author ever got from Siembieda.  He let Erick do his thing, because Erick in turn produced some of the best games and sourcebooks Palladium ever made.

So, in what possible way would it have been worse if Palladium had ended up being Amber's publisher?  The Swine on RPG.net are all going around saying "thank god that didn't happen" as though it would have meant we'd be talking about Gerard's Mega-Damage or something.  NO.  What it would have meant is that Amber would probably still be in print today, and Erick might even have had the support network he needed in Palladium books to be able to oversee the production of more sourcebooks.  Amber might have been, and might have continued to be, a very successful line for Palladium books, which in turn would have made Palladium more financially stable than it is today.

In what way would that have been a worse shadow than the one we live in?

RPGPundit

[Tahmoh]

You know its a shame Eric never managed to shift the game over to Palladium before he died as for all his faults Kevin Siembieda would have at least made sure it stayed in print as a tribute to his friend if nothing else.

[Spinachcat]

What is the state of the Amber license?

[Thanlis]

The Swine on RPG.net are all going around saying "thank god that didn't happen" as though it would have meant we'd be talking about Gerard's Mega-Damage or something.

As of right now, what Pundie means by this is that one person said that. The thread is here.

[finarvyn]

I guess it all comes down to how much control Erick would have been able to maintain over his game system. If he had been able to keep ADRP pretty much as-is, then we probably would have seen it stay in print and probably would have seen a nice variety of sourcebooks.

If ADRP had been absorbed somehow into the main Palladium RPG system then the game would have become something so very different from what we now know, but we still would probably have gotten a nice variety of sourcebooks.

Either way, I suspect that Palladium would have found a way to support the game line a lot better than Erick did. Sadly, Erick was so much more of a dreamer than a do-er. This inspired an amazing RPG system like nothing we'd ever seen before, but left us wanting more. He meant well but spent so much of his time being creative rather than being disciplined.

[Croaker]

Arf, you're depressing me :-/

[RPGPundit]

What is the state of the Amber license?

Its owned by two guys who have done nothing at all with it since the moment they got the license, which was before Erick died.  So years.

RPGPundit

[Jason D]

It's all "coulda, woulda, shoulda", but the reasons Erick didn't do more with ADRP had nothing to do with his capability as a developer and more to do with his focus.

Just after Rebma was turned in, Erick was caring for a close relative who was dying of cancer. This consumed his free time and his energy, and he ultimately hit a wall with it. It was years after before he could do anything relating to game writing, and aside from some stuff for Palladium, he didn't really publish much other than the odd Amberzine. He was in therapy for a while, depressed and unable to do much with Amber. The criticisms about Shadow Knight really stuck with him, and he just didn't want to do any more. He instead went into teaching and electronic game development.

As far as his relationship with Palladium, for all of the deference Kevin gave him, it wasn't always smooth. The first book of Mystic China was literally torn from Erick's hands to take to editing and layout, and the second book canceled with a very public blame pointed at Erick.

Amber in Kevin's hands... who knows? I suspect the main reason it never went to Palladium is that Erick was leery of putting the game that was so dear to his heart in between Kevin and himself.

[Evermasterx]

It's all "coulda, woulda, shoulda", but the reasons Erick didn't do more with ADRP had nothing to do with his capability as a developer and more to do with his focus.

Just after Rebma was turned in, Erick was caring for a close relative who was dying of cancer. This consumed his free time and his energy, and he ultimately hit a wall with it. It was years after before he could do anything relating to game writing, and aside from some stuff for Palladium, he didn't really publish much other than the odd Amberzine. He was in therapy for a while, depressed and unable to do much with Amber. The criticisms about Shadow Knight really stuck with him, and he just didn't want to do any more. He instead went into teaching and electronic game development.

As far as his relationship with Palladium, for all of the deference Kevin gave him, it wasn't always smooth. The first book of Mystic China was literally torn from Erick's hands to take to editing and layout, and the second book canceled with a very public blame pointed at Erick.

Amber in Kevin's hands... who knows? I suspect the main reason it never went to Palladium is that Erick was leery of putting the game that was so dear to his heart in between Kevin and himself.

thank you for sharing with us this little piece of history of RPG.
I think that Shadow Knight is good.

[finarvyn]

I think that Shadow Knight is good, as well.

I suspect that many of the detractors are the same folks who didn't like Zelazny's Merlin series, either. The Merlin series takes the Amber story in a direction very different from the Corwin series, and it's natural that the Shadow Knight sourcebook would have to take the campaign in the same direction, but if you don't like one you likely won't like both.

[finarvyn]

What is the state of the Amber license?

Not much new, sadly. The license with Betancourt to write another Amber novel is dead, dead, dead. Mostly because the publishers of the earlier novels went bankrupt, as I understand it, and so the remaining book isn't likely to be ever done.

Diceless by Design has essentially sat on the RPG license, and as best as we can tell no Amber advancements have been made. Speculation of a second edition gets no confirmation. Their webpage sits unchanged and no updates have been added.

However, DbD hasn't been totally idle.

• They still sell the RPG (both core rulebook and SK supplement) in PDF form
• They have authorized the creation of "Lords of Gossamer and Shadow" which is a RPG designed to be compatible with Erick's rule system. They aren't the ones writing the game, but at least they have allowed others to carry the torch a little.

I think we'd all like to see more action from DbD, however.

[RPGPundit]

For the record, I loved Shadow Knight.

As for Palladium, I'm not sure how things would have gone in general; but I would be pretty sure that had Palladium had the power to do so, after Erick's death there's no doubt Kevin would have reprinted Amber (maybe pushing it as a "memorial edition" or somesuch thing).

RPGPundit

[Qwilion]

I would like to public thank Edwin and Eric of Diceless by Design for giving us a chance to do "Lords of Gossamer and Shadow"

And Jason Durall for his willingness to write it.

[finarvyn]

I would like to public thank Edwin and Eric of Diceless by Design for giving us a chance to do "Lords of Gossamer and Shadow"

And Jason Durall for his willingness to write it.

Agreed. It's a huge task and I'd hate to take it on myself. What I've seen so far from Jason has been excellent!

[Qwilion]

Finarvyn

I am glad you are enjoying it.