Impossible secrets, reflected in shadow

[scottishstorm]

I had a weird series of different thoughts all tied together by the "reflected in shadow" premise.

If anything and everything "real" is reflected in shadow, there is some disadvantage in being "real".  In another thread, someone pointed out the likelihood of one's opponents anticipating attacks if the same (or similar) routine is used every time.  While this was mentioned specifically for sorcery, it is a valid argument for everything.  A swordsman who always starts off with a high over overbearing attack would have this trend echoed with his shadows.  New opponents who have never encountered him before may know of the tactic before it's routine and reflected in shadow.

Now, apply this to secrets and things get interesting due to the idea that each reflection has some minor inconsistency or flaw.  The truth of secrets may be found in shadow, though possibly in fragmented form... like a jigsaw puzzle.

Imagine some old and terrible secret in Amber.  Hypothetically, Oberon murdered Osric and Finndo in cold blood.  This act would be reflected in shadow.  The details may change somewhat, though there is a possibility that a discerning character could 'piece the truth together' and get a pretty accurate idea of  what actually happened.

This may seem elementary or contrary, depending on one's take on the genre.  But, I thought it might be an interesting discussion point.

• Are secrets impossible in Amber?
• Does an Amber character need to reinvent himself and his style to remain competitive? (*)

(* Note, it can be argued that this very thing happened to Benedict in the Chronicles.  Benedict was so noted for his prowess and style in warfare that this turned against him)

[Drascus]

I had a weird series of different thoughts all tied together by the "reflected in shadow" premise.

If anything and everything "real" is reflected in shadow, there is some disadvantage in being "real".  In another thread, someone pointed out the likelihood of one's opponents anticipating attacks if the same (or similar) routine is used every time.  While this was mentioned specifically for sorcery, it is a valid argument for everything.  A swordsman who always starts off with a high over overbearing attack would have this trend echoed with his shadows.  New opponents who have never encountered him before may know of the tactic before it's routine and reflected in shadow.

Now, apply this to secrets and things get interesting due to the idea that each reflection has some minor inconsistency or flaw.  The truth of secrets may be found in shadow, though possibly in fragmented form... like a jigsaw puzzle.

Imagine some old and terrible secret in Amber.  Hypothetically, Oberon murdered Osric and Finndo in cold blood.  This act would be reflected in shadow.  The details may change somewhat, though there is a possibility that a discerning character could 'piece the truth together' and get a pretty accurate idea of  what actually happened.

This may seem elementary or contrary, depending on one's take on the genre.  But, I thought it might be an interesting discussion point.

• Are secrets impossible in Amber?
• Does an Amber character need to reinvent himself and his style to remain competitive? (*)

(* Note, it can be argued that this very thing happened to Benedict in the Chronicles.  Benedict was so noted for his prowess and style in warfare that this turned against him)

I've always ruled that just because Shadow is infinite, it does not necessarily contain everything.  You can have a plate with an infinite variety of cheeses, and there might not be any apple slices.

If you think about it, Caine's slaying of Brand was telegraphed before it even happened in shadow.  People slay each other all the time.  Family members even.  So a battle between Amberites will not necessarily be represented as a battle between shadows of those Amberites.  If Amber is at war, though, you might find wars a lot more common in shadow.  

If the family is betraying and murdering each other like crazy, betryals might be everywhere in shadow.

That's how I see it working.  What's happening in Amber informs how the endless variety in Shadow presents itself.

[Ivanhoe]

Note that a conspirationnist trying to get answers about the death of Finndo and Osric and finding a shadow of desire containing such answers will say more about the traveller's inner desires and doubts than about reality. In one shadow Osrci and Finndo were killed by their father, and in another they slew each other (but in fact every one know that Oberon ordered Benedict to kill both of them, and that cursed him in a way making him ineligible for the throne ;-p )

[jibbajibba]

Note that a conspirationnist trying to get answers about the death of Finndo and Osric and finding a shadow of desire containing such answers will say more about the traveller's inner desires and doubts than about reality. In one shadow Osrci and Finndo were killed by their father, and in another they slew each other (but in fact every one know that Oberon ordered Benedict to kill both of them, and that cursed him in a way making him ineligible for the throne ;-p )

I thought we all new that Osric was Oberon and he killed him and shapeshifted to Oberon's form.

I would agree that stuff you find in shadow is just shadow stuff and shadows are often distorted by the observer.

If you find a shadow of a place you sek itmight be very similar but the differences make all the difference.

[Ivanhoe]

wanna start a thread about all these Finndo/Osric theories ?

[weilide]

I would think that the situation is somewhat analogous to having a billion numbered slips of paper, one of which has a winning lotto number on it  -- separating the needle from the hay is only possible once you know the secret you were looking for in the first place.

[Trevelyan]

I tend to agree. The trouble with shadow containing pretty much everything is that while it contains the truth, it also contains a hell of a lot of lies. And we know that intention and expectation are aspects which can later the environment one encounters while moving through shadow.

This extends to training against shadow duplicates to some extent too. While one might find a shadow Benedict and practice against him in orer to learn and defeat his style, you are likely to be looking for small weaknesses to exploit, weaknesses which might in practice be among the subtle differentiating factors separating the shadow from the original. In theory it could be possible to fine tune the shadow to the point where it is close enough, but that would require a fairly solid understanding of the original anyway, rendering the whole exercise largely pointless.

All of that said, the more general practice works well enough. Benedict himself is a master tactician in part because he has gone through shadow playing the same games with tiny differences time and again. That more general sort of training could well pay off over time.

[gabriel_ss4u]

It is an interesting thought, that perhaps there is a savant out there with blood royal that has an algorithmic mind and a Sherlock Holmes attitude with an infinity to track down and calculate such propensities and probabilities.

But while all this is going on, the one you are tracking, may be tracking you, and not the various shadows.

If it is hints you seek, the Trumps, Mirrors, or city in the sky would be better served as aid.

[jibbajibba]

Actually I was thinking about set theory the other day. The concept of confined Infinite sets. Say the set of all fractions betweeen 1 and 10. I combined this with a scan of the Visual Guide, which as I have stated previously I hate. But what is the Visual Guide is right and all Amberite realities are Shadow Earth related?
By this I mean that there are infinite shadows but that Shadow Earth is a reflection of all the infinities that exist. This would explain why we never see any space opera and why no on in the Visual Guide can think of a way to decorate their bedroom that isn;t taken from Shadow Earth (of course Shadow Earth is actually the Shadow of the various realities)
Well I never said it was a great idea

[RPGPundit]

I think that secrets CAN be reflected in shadow, and that almost everything that happens in Amber gets reflected to some extent or another in Shadow.

However, I think that these reflections will be grossly imperfect, meaning that information gleaned this way must also be interpreted, and that leaves a lot of room for... misunderstandings.

RPGPundit

[Ivanhoe]

Fiona stabbed Random in a shadow ! That means she is conspiring ! Or that a princess is conspiring ! Or that a redhead is ! Or that Random is going the path of Brand, who was stabbed by Fiona ! Anyway let's panick !

[gabriel_ss4u]

Now a Ghostwheel-like construct that can search shadows and multiple occurrences tracking the blood royal's shadows could theoretically come up with an oracle like prediction of things to come, especially if it were powered by trump and the Hall of mirrors, or the pattern of Tir.
wow, now that one I like.

My first construct was named 'Oracle', but i didn't bring it to that degree, perhaps in another campaign.