Extreme Powers?

[Gothic_Pepsi]

I was looking through the Rule Book as I usually do ever so often, and i was looking at the Extreme versions of Powers eg Suhuys Extreme version of Logrus, Brands Extreme version of Trumps etc, well what im getting at is, is it possible for a PC who in his/her's background focused all their time on one power, and gotten it to this level allowing them to become a behemoth of power yet have no stats (as in spend large amount of points on this ability, Brands trump power i think was only 75points)?

if so discuss.

[scottishstorm]

I was looking through the Rule Book as I usually do ever so often, and i was looking at the Extreme versions of Powers eg Suhuys Extreme version of Logrus, Brands Extreme version of Trumps etc, well what im getting at is, is it possible for a PC who in his/her's background focused all their time on one power, and gotten it to this level allowing them to become a behemoth of power yet have no stats (as in spend large amount of points on this ability, Brands trump power i think was only 75points)?

if so discuss.

Anything's possible!

(Don'cha hate dismissive succinct replies like that?)

I think, at the core, (and particularly at the character generation stage) the process should be reserved towards a measure of 'equality'.  This generally means "No exalted powers to start".  But, there are two other main considerations:

1) exalted powers don't happen by themselves.  Brand wouldn't have 'exalted' trump without (advanced) pattern, sorcery and an unbelievably high psyche (reflecting the awareness that lead him to the puzzle pieces and the insight to put them together).  All are contributing factors to the exalted power.  In this sense, it'd be impossible for a 100 point character to have Brand's version of exalted trump.

2) On the other hand, creative thinking should be rewarded! Take a lesser power (say, power words) and it may be possible for a player-character to begin with this on their sheet.  This is just on-the-fly, but perhaps a concept can be built around the idea of versatile instinctive magic (read: "exalted" power words) that require no prep time, are instant to use for immediate effect.

[jibbajibba]

My partial powers skill trees go up to exalted in all powers and i am always willing to accommodate an Ab-normal or extension of powers.

I have a PC once that had put 125 in shape shift and split them selves into 12 separate entities, one of which was a sword carried by another , 1 was a clearing in the forest of Arden, 1 was a swallow that leaved in the eaves in castle amber etc etc

I don't think you need multiple powers to boost a single power. I do think that putting all your eggs into one basket is a risk. There are ways to beat shapeshift for example that work is you have 10 in it (a single alternate form, usually demonic) or 200 in it.

The books constantly throw out new and unusual uses of powers GMs shoudl encourage simialr actions.

But the following are Risky Things to try in your quest for new Power
Shapeshift yourself into the logrus
Develop a Pattern Power to erase shadow and then use it to erase the pattern in Amber (or Tir-na nog'th whilst standing in Tir-na nog'th)
Develop the ability to draw Abstract trumps of non-existant places that you could never shadow walk to
Chopping down Ygg

[Ivanhoe]

I think jibbajibba hits on the nail. Favor players' crzativity instead of long list of prerequisite for everything.

I went to the extreme of not allowing sorcery or conjuration at creation, but rewarding unusual ideas. I think that Pattern and Trump have sufficient malleability to make up for most spells. I had people paint the walls of a prison with the power of trumps in order to make a Logrus-resistant cage, experiments with SF-shadows and trumps cards used to discard Logrus telekinesis. I think it gives the players a better grip on their powers to push them into using them to solve things that sorcerers would do too easily.

[scottishstorm]

I had people paint the walls of a prison with the power of trumps in order to make a Logrus-resistant cage

Through the ceiling/floor/window, then!  For that matter, I'm not sure how much actual physical structure deters shadow-travel using Logrus.  I think it's one of those things that every GM must decide for themselves.  

(On a broad scale, I'm not sure how much actual physical structure deters Pattern travel, either.  Take a shopping mall, for instance and seal every exit with some form of block.  If someone can still manipulate shadow within the mall, they can theoretically change the shadow as they work and stroll around the indoors.  By the time they actually reach an exit, it's not the same mall they started in.  No blocks)

[Ivanhoe]

Through the ceiling/floor/window, then!

That was obviously taken into account. The door itself was a two-curtains thing to prevent surprises.

I would say that anything with a 20 m corridor and a turn can allow shadow-walking with a low psyche. Anything bigger than a cell for a higher one

[scottishstorm]

That was obviously taken into account. The door itself was a two-curtains thing to prevent surprises.

I would say that anything with a 20 m corridor and a turn can allow shadow-walking with a low psyche. Anything bigger than a cell for a higher one

Err.. um.. ah...

Looks like the imprisoned logrus dude is SOL.  It's a long shot, though I think there's something to be ssid about the inherent need for stability in trump vs the inherent chaos in Logrus.  Something might be reasoned out in a suitably genius fashion here.

To clarify, trump needs a stable subject.  Merlin says there are places in Chaos that a trump card just cannot be designed around because of the varied environmental changes, etc.  If one were to take this logic in reverse, then maybe the trump barrier would somehow cease to function if the prison cell was sufficiently altered.  I don't know what other powers & abilities your example logrus guy has at his disposal, though (of course) the logrus itself could be used for this purpose, albeit painfully (logrus contact with trump doesn't have the lethal implications as with Pattern.  It's not fun, however!).  There are other methods and possibilities as well.  Sneer feces on the walls and urinate everywhere.  There, you have a bit of a visual change and a significant change in.. err.. aroma (come to think of it, maybe this stage was best saved for last.  Ick .  Dismantle your bed and use some solid part of its frame as a battering ram against, say, the floor.  Use of your clothing and possibly a 'logrus shield' would muffle the sound here).  If trumps are indestructible in this setting (a stupid canon-defying idea, mind), then it's time to try something new.  If not, you'll eventually break part of the trump barrier.  Not only have you weakened it on th whole, but you may have a fist-sized hole to squeeze a logrus tendril through.  Maybe send that tendril out and fetch some C4 & primer to blast the door?  If that's too risky, bring in paint or those little cans of quick-drying stucco and redecorate the walls.

None of this may actually work.  But, at least you'd have something to do.

[scottishstorm]

Ha!  I got it!  

The cell has to have a toilet, right?  It may not be pleasant, but there's your exit (or at least a large enough break in the barrier to bring in something to help you such as metal-eating demonoids to chew through the bars)

[Ivanhoe]

If you are interested I can give you details. The trump artist was a partial one, a PC just beginning to learn this new art. He could not even yet copy trumps, but knew how to draw the back of the cards, effectively making them cold and filled with the power of trumps. They knew that this was supposed to disrupt Logrus tendrils. He then drew it on tapestries (took several days) and covered the walls of a cell in Amber Castle with them. Then, the Chaosian (who was another PC, they knew he would be slippery) was suspended inside of a cage. They suspected that he could shapeshift and so weren't sure the cage woudl hold him, so they instructed two guards to stand 10 meters from the cage 24/24 and to raise an alarm if "funny things" happen. Outside the cell, in case of alarm, a guard had a trump of the PC and of Gerard. Two curtains allowed the "trump box" to always be closed while the guards were shifting.

Now how did he get out ? :-)
He slept in a fetal position, so that guards would not see his arms. He shapeshifted them into long rolled tentacles (he was an accomplished shapeshifter) that he could unroll in the blink of an eye. Thanks to them he knocked out his two guards, shifted out of the cage, and took the appearance of one of the guard. During the shift, he knocked out the new guard and went out as if everything was normal. Once outside he lacked a password so fight ensued and alarm was raised. He managed to tendril-teleport to Amber's beach. (Later he got caught again before he could reach safety but this was still almost a successful jailbreak)

[finarvyn]

I hardly ever use Advanced powers, let along Exalted level. I find that Advanced powers are kind of expensive for a 100-point game, and spending that many points in a single area tends to unbalance the character so I can't imagine encouraging players to push for Exalted.

Having said that, NPCs in my campaign often have sneaky secrets that the players don't know about and both Advanced and Exalted powers fall into that category.

[RPGPundit]

In my campaigns, its not unusual that a sufficiently determined player can get an exalted power. But it does require sufficient effort, a lot of players decide that it isn't worth it compared to getting a wider variety of other things.

RPGPundit

[gabriel_ss4u]

i love it when players come up with ideas i never thought of.

I try to allow whatever, just this side of munchin-ing.