The Jewel of Judgement

finarvyn · September 16, 2007, 11:59:46 AM

I like Pundit's "One Ring" analogy. When the One Ring was destroyed, the Middle-earth campaign is basically over.

If the Jewel is reunited with the Serpent of Chaos, I get the impression that the Amberverse is basically over. I don't recall offhand where it says this, but I'm pretty sure that the Pattern would be erased and Amber would vanish along with its Shadows. Sorta like a computer re-boot. This has the potential for being not-fun because any time one side has an "automatic win" feature, the other side can never lose or it's done.

Nihilistic Mind · September 17, 2007, 01:25:52 AM

Quote from: finarvynThis has the potential for being not-fun because any time one side has an "automatic win" feature, the other side can never lose or it's done.

Not necessarily... It could actually be an interesting premise for a campaign (or a new direction for a current one). The PCs might then try to restore 'Order' with a Pattern of their own, or find an alternative to the Pattern altogether.

Perhaps the Serpent's Eye is untouchable once restored, but perhaps not... It has been taken from the beast once before (or was given away in exchange for something, who knows).

Arref · September 17, 2007, 05:41:05 PM

Quote from: TrevelyanWhat practical use can be made out of them is down to your players. Generally speaking, the most interesting uses for the Jewel are going to be non canon.

IMC, the Jewel stores memory copies of all the people who attune to it. It has information from the Serpent stored inside. It also energizes all sorts of arcane methods.

You can summon things from the Jewel that have been stored there. Winds. Lightning. Oberon. The Serpent.

You can also explore the unwalked paths within the Pattern of the Jewel and find elements not incorporated into Amber.

TonyLB · September 17, 2007, 06:08:34 PM

Quote from: ArrefYou can also explore the unwalked paths within the Pattern of the Jewel and find elements not incorporated into Amber.

Oooh ... sorta like God's DVD-commentary track.

"Yeah, we looked into the idea of incorporating happy endings into the universe, but it didn't poll well. Still, if you wanted to do it, here's how ...."

crafty · September 22, 2007, 03:28:40 PM

Here's a thought, actually a continuation of another post I just made, if Pattern and Logrus are sentient, what if the Jewel (and there's evidence of this) is yet another level above those two orders. Additionally, what would happen if you took the Jewel to the undershadow? Perhaps the Jewel created Chaos, and it's the true underlying order to the universe...

Nihilistic Mind · September 22, 2007, 09:18:29 PM

What about the Jewel's presence in Shadow? Did it make Earth more substantial? More 'real'?

I like to think of the Jewel that way: a portable pole of reality. It radiates substance, in a sense.

crafty · September 23, 2007, 08:36:44 AM

Between that and Corwin/Flora/Merlin/Jurt, Earth should be a fairly "real" shadow.

Arref · September 23, 2007, 10:47:31 AM

Quote from: TonyLBOooh ... sorta like God's DVD-commentary track.

"Yeah, we looked into the idea of incorporating happy endings into the universe, but it didn't poll well. Still, if you wanted to do it, here's how ...."

You've definitely got the idea.

Except that imagine a film made from the competing visions of Dworkin, Serpent, Unicorn and that uppity leading man, Oberon.

Nihilistic Mind · September 23, 2007, 07:43:32 PM

Quote from: craftyBetween that and Corwin/Flora/Merlin/Jurt, Earth should be a fairly "real" shadow.

Ok, maybe I need to rephrase what I mean here. Would an extended stay of the Jewel of Judgment on a Shadow (any Shadow) make that Shadow more real? Would that Shadow start casting new Shadows of its own?

That could be a side-effect of the Jewel OR it could be one of its uses: Perhaps Oberon actively created a reflection of the Amber castle in Rebma and in Tir-na Nog'th for his own purposes (whatever they may be). But then again, it could be a side effect of the Jewel's presence in Amber for millenia...

Whatever it is, I'm just suggesting an additional use for the Jewel, if you consider this can be done consciously rather than by accident, of course.

In Otha's campaign 'Phases', I play Faolan, who not only hopes to restore Brand to normal (as described earlier) by using the Jewel, but also hopes the continued presence of the Jewel in Tir-na Nog'th will make its Moon (the source of our power) more prevalent throughout Shadow, therefore making people in Tir more powerful outside of it.

Schattensturm · June 03, 2009, 09:42:45 PM

Quote from: Nihilistic Mind;142032Ok, maybe I need to rephrase what I mean here. Would an extended stay of the Jewel of Judgment on a Shadow (any Shadow) make that Shadow more real? Would that Shadow start casting new Shadows of its own?

That could be a side-effect of the Jewel OR it could be one of its uses: Perhaps Oberon actively created a reflection of the Amber castle in Rebma and in Tir-na Nog'th for his own purposes (whatever they may be). But then again, it could be a side effect of the Jewel's presence in Amber for millenia...

Just like shadowshaping close to Amber is impossible, it would be in the presence of the "higher" pattern within the Jewel, if its bearer wills it, I would suggest. Furthermore as the Jewel is the obvious choice for creating patterns, it could be the only tool to create pattern powered items, like Grayswandir, Werewindle, or Benedict's arm. But that is just an assumption as I haven't read the short stories about swords as spikards.

gabriel_ss4u · June 04, 2009, 05:09:40 PM

Towards the end of one of the games I played in, the Jewel was cut into pieces by a master gem artisan of Amber who placed it within some of the Pattern Swords, making it harder to locate and acquire by Chaos.

Interesting idea on the Jewel creating shadows after the fact of the Pattern. IMC, I keep the Jewel whole, tend to keep it in Amber, and never forget everyone wants it.
I agree with the idea they may have been instrumental in the forging of the Pattern Swords. And the Novels have stated that exposure to Shadow over time does tend to make the Shadow more real. Perhaps the variations on the Shadow the Jewel stayed in would have some other effect like more ripples in probability in the Shadows nearest it, to make them more like the original 'be-Jeweled' Shadow.

Schattensturm · June 04, 2009, 06:40:33 PM

And the Jewel shouldn't differenciate between Amber- or non-Amber-blood. This means with someone initiating you to it, every shadow dweller with the appropriate Psyche and Endurance should be able to walk its pattern.

gabriel_ss4u · June 04, 2009, 07:31:25 PM

Quote from: Schattensturm;306446And the Jewel shouldn't differenciate between Amber- or non-Amber-blood. This means with someone initiating you to it, every shadow dweller with the appropriate Psyche and Endurance should be able to walk its pattern.

The original Pattern, having been drawn with the shape-shifting blood of Dworkin, may only allow those of his blood to traverse it. THAT is my understanding of the Pattern.

(Corwin's is similar that he has a will overriding the access to who may under-take his Pattern.)

Schattensturm · June 05, 2009, 03:15:29 AM

I referred to the three-dimensional pattern within the jewel.

moritheil · June 05, 2009, 04:04:09 AM

Quote from: gabriel_ss4u;306455The original Pattern, having been drawn with the shape-shifting blood of Dworkin, may only allow those of his blood to traverse it. THAT is my understanding of the Pattern.

Yes; mine too.

Quote(Corwin's is similar that he has a will overriding the access to who may under-take his Pattern.)

My understanding is that in the Merlin books, the Pattern has the ability to consciously hold itself back from killing someone. Note how the Pattern starts actively killing ghost-Jurt, then restores him and promises to not kill him. However, when he departs from it to kill a Merlin-ghost, he still dies. This implies that the effect of dying when you depart from the line is not a conscious effort on the Pattern's part, but automatic. On the other hand, the part where the Pattern kills those not of the blood may not be automatic. Alternatively, the Pattern could have simply changed its mind and decided to kill him anyway, once additional rules were broken.

At first glance, ghost-Jurt's ability to walk was explained by the fact that Jurt was descended from Benedict and thus could walk the Pattern. But this wasn't really Jurt; it was his Logrus ghost. Since ghosts are just constructs, it's arguable whether or not the real Jurt's heredity factors in here. Thus it is possible that the Pattern actively refrained from killing him.

This idea was further developed when ghost-Corwin, ghost-Rinaldo, and Merlin walked Corwin's Pattern. Whereas Jurt descended from Dworkin directly, Rinaldo does not descend from Corwin at all. Some noises are made about "degrees of consanguinity" but given that Fiona wasn't able to walk to it, I see no reason why a descendant of Brand ought to have an easier time. Of course, ghost-Rinaldo is a construct, so again, the heredity of the real thing may not even be an issue. In any case, an agreement had been made with that Pattern to allow him to walk it, and that might have been the key factor.