The economics of Amber and the Golden Circle

[jibbajibba]

I was just writing up my notes for my GenCon Game and I wanted to make he mian location, the Golden circle city state of Florentz, seem as genuine as I could. I am doing a background sheet with a simple map to be given to each PC and there are paragraphs on military tech, politics etc.. I came to thinking about the Economics of Amber and the golden circle and how that would work.
I referenced the visual guide but as usual it is shit. So I worked out some basics that seem to make sense

i) As shadow earth is a shadow of Amber we can assume that the fundermental modes of operation of economics on earth are a shadow of Amber in some sense.
ii) Amber is the richest trading centre. It is the Paris or the Rome or the New York (all of which are in some sense shadows of it of course). It is largely a buyer and reseller.
iii) Golden Circle states want treaties with Amber to get access to its markets. Part of that treaty is the establishment of a trade route, which is to say a path through shadow that normal folk can traverse with some training.
iv) Amberite trading houses will have a knowledge of shadows and either know all the trade routes ro possible routes to particular GC states will be known to certain trade houses.
v) As only Amberites can move through shadow the trade routes will need to be set up by Amberites.
vi) A shadow path in frequest use remains 'open' to those that know the way
vii) In trading with Amber the GC will obviously also pick up goods from other GC states and will learn of shadows. Within the educated/merchant/dominant classes in the GC the concept of the GC and of Shadows , shadow walking and probably the Pattern of Amber will be well known.
viii) Shadow-walking and the Pattern will be seen as the epitome of Power in the GC states (we see this in the 2nd chronicles around the local importance of Broken Patterns)
ix) Amber must find it profitable to deal with the GC than to deal locally in its own shadow because of some degree of risk in shadow journeys we can assume Amber's own shadow to be lacking in certain goods/raw materials
x) The royal family who could ship in vast quatities of goods from Shadow for 'free' don't do so
xi) The GC shadows are therefore probably more important to Amber than Amber is to any one GC shadow. By this I mean the GC are probably each self sufficient and trade with Amber for exotic goods and as a market whereas Amber needs the GC for food, building materials, etc ...the basics in other words.
xi) The Loss of Amber as an ally would wreak financial ruin on the elite of a GC state but the effect on the general population would be more muted
xii) Total loss of GC access to Amber would have a large effect on the city unless the Royals intervened, shipping in food etc.
xiv) Amber would concern itself with local GC politics only in as much as the provision of goods was still available.
xv) If local conditions were such that a GC circle state was unable to provide goods Amber would scratch the treaty and close the shadow path perhaps agree to renegotiate with the state once a new order had been established.


So there are some basics. There are alternatives. Amber could send ships out to fetch GC stuff but never allow ships back, this would mean Amber was just a mysterious trading partner and the GC states were more ignorant of shadow etc but I don't get that impression from the books.  Amber could mould the GC states to provide the correct goods and mould their realities to suit Ambers current requirements again I don't get that impression and I think it relies havily on the Royals and I suspect they don;t want to deal with day to day details.

All ideas and feed back appreciated.

[Lorrraine]

ix) Amber must find it profitable to deal with the GC than to deal locally in its own shadow because of some degree of risk in shadow journeys we can assume Amber's own shadow to be lacking in certain goods/raw materials.

While you can do what you want, I would never create an Amber that lacks important goods or raw materials. Important defined in this case as not banned by Oberon.

Instead I would suggest that each of the Golden Circle Shadows lacks something. This lack allows Amber to transport goods there and sell them at a profit.

While Amber has everything they need, they never have everything they want. Golden circle goods cost less than genuine Amber merchandise and provide serviceable alternatives. No wine from the Golden Circle matches Bayle's Best, but GC wine still tastes good and still has alcohol.

The Elite of Golden Circle shadows typically spend the extra for genuine Amber goods, but primarily Amber makes a profit by shipping items between Shadows with different needs.

If Amber cut off a Golden Circle shadow, the shadow would suffer. They would have to find a way to make up for the goods Amber sends them. Some of their citizens might find themselves in involuntary exile, literally unable to find the way home. The elite wouldn't necessarily suffer unless deprivation leads to revolution, but they would lack access to the finer Amber goods to which they have become accustomed. The Elite would lose the profits from trading with Amber, but investment in producing suddenly scarce resources could make up that loss. Elite already strongly invested in such resources would actually have a vested interest in ending trade with Amber.

Total loss of a GC Shadow would mainly have an effect on the wealth of Amber's elite and the jobs of the sailors as they would have to rebalance the trade routes to make up for the deficit. A prince of Amber could of course create a new trade route to a new suitable shadow which would cushion the loss. A new trade route would also presumably take more time to reach since Amber presumably used the closest suitable shadows to form the Golden Circle.

You also may want to think about whether the traded goods include slaves or indentured servants, drugs, contraband, or anything technically forbidden by Oberon. Historically speaking trade routes have a nasty side which you may or may not want to use in your game.

[weilide]

You might also consider the relationship of the other "real world" cities on the same continent as Amber that Zelazny mentions here and there. Are they in the same boat as other Golden Circle powers or do they differ in some way? It may be that shadow shortcuts mean that some (or most) of the GC polities require less travel time than the other Amber cities do.

Another historical analogy you might want to consider is imperial China, which engaged in reciprocal gift-giving with neighboring courts as much to cement relations as for any concrete economic gain. In a similar vein, a kula ring <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kula_ring> provides another interesting model.

[jibbajibba]

You might also consider the relationship of the other "real world" cities on the same continent as Amber that Zelazny mentions here and there. Are they in the same boat as other Golden Circle powers or do they differ in some way? It may be that shadow shortcuts mean that some (or most) of the GC polities require less travel time than the other Amber cities do.

Another historical analogy you might want to consider is imperial China, which engaged in reciprocal gift-giving with neighboring courts as much to cement relations as for any concrete economic gain. In a similar vein, a kula ring <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kula_ring> provides another interesting model.

Yeah I thought about  Kula ring but I can't see what reciprocal benefits Amber would get.

You mention real world cities I can't recall any. I know we have Cabra and noble estates but i can't recall any cities. It was always my conclusion that As you travelled away from Amber you faded into shadow and couldn't get back.

As for the Raw materials thing I can't see any other reason why Amber would trade with GC states.

[weilide]

RZ mentions the other cities in paratextual materials, calling their canonicity into question, but he at least thought they were there. I believe the reference is in his intro to Black Road War.

[weilide]

As for the Raw materials thing I can't see any other reason why Amber would trade with GC states.

Sweetening the deal for treaties permitting Amber to move troops through the shadows in question without hassle?

[Evermasterx]

Sweetening the deal for treaties permitting Amber to move troops through the shadows in question without hassle?

and viceversa slowing down enemy troops directed toward Amber

[jibbajibba]

and viceversa slowing down enemy troops directed toward Amber

I thought through thte troops option and it doesn't hold water.

Thereare an infinite number of shadows adjacent to Amber and not all are Golden Circle states and you have to open up a shadow path which has to be less secure. In the books we saw no assitance from GC to block Corwin and Bleys.

As for providing a safe path for troops coming out of Amber I thought through that as well and in the event of an attack on a far flung shadow Amber would travel to a shadow near the target and recruit an army in situ (or find one equipped and ready to go). In the books we have to assume that Amber's army gets to the courts by taking a magical/ad pattern/trump route as Corwin is well behind them as he hellrides.

[Croaker]

Just an idea there. Not perfectly formulated, but I think it is interesting.

What if the GC states where in fact on the same "planet" than Amber?

The farther you go from the Pattern, the less influence it has, so this is still coherent, and maybe one takes "shortcuts" through shadow to reach them.
Maybe this is even unknown to some princes.

This'd explain the importance of GC to Amber, and why they bother with their politics when, theoretically speaking, there are copies of these shadows where politics are going fine.

[jibbajibba]

Just an idea there. Not perfectly formulated, but I think it is interesting.

What if the GC states where in fact on the same "planet" than Amber?

The farther you go from the Pattern, the less influence it has, so this is still coherent, and maybe one takes "shortcuts" through shadow to reach them.
Maybe this is even unknown to some princes.

This'd explain the importance of GC to Amber, and why they bother with their politics when, theoretically speaking, there are copies of these shadows where politics are going fine.

That is certainly workable but it doesn't fit with canon. It's pretty obvious Kashfa and Bergma are separate shadows just from the presence of Broken Patterns but more so by the ability to manipulate pattern in these locations.

But it is a workable option.

[weilide]

I thought through thte troops option and it doesn't hold water.

There are an infinite number of shadows adjacent to Amber and not all are Golden Circle states and you have to open up a shadow path which has to be less secure. In the books we saw no assitance from GC to block Corwin and Bleys..

I'm not sure this is the case, actually. In the Merlin series there's talk of rings of shadows, of discrete numbers of shadow veils within a particular zone, and such. Moreover, there's the discussion of the small number (nine-ish?) workable broken patterns, which seems like it should not be the case if there are infinite squeezed in there. (I'll try to dredge up the relevant quotes in a bit). Even if one doesn't buy this reading, there's the point that it may be easier to move large numbers of troops along established paths rather than virgin shadow wilderness. In this case it would still be beneficial to have a treaty of some sort.

[jibbajibba]

I'm not sure this is the case, actually. In the Merlin series there's talk of rings of shadows, of discrete numbers of shadow veils within a particular zone, and such. Moreover, there's the discussion of the small number (nine-ish?) workable broken patterns, which seems like it should not be the case if there are infinite squeezed in there. (I'll try to dredge up the relevant quotes in a bit). Even if one doesn't buy this reading, there's the point that it may be easier to move large numbers of troops along established paths rather than virgin shadow wilderness. In this case it would still be beneficial to have a treaty of some sort.

Okay I can accept the rings thing (I kind of run it that way myself usually) although there some inconsistencies in the text (for a change )
But I am still not certain about the benefits of the treaties. From a defensive standpoint Amber would be better off depopulating those shadow rings and establishing large garrisons to defend the shadow path (of course also true that for raw materials they would be better off depopulating them and settiing up large farms/mines/foresters etc ...) . this is surely preferable to having politically active scheming kingdoms trying to play the advantage, fix broken patterns, gathering armies to invade Amber etc etc.

[Evermasterx]

Okay I can accept the rings thing (I kind of run it that way myself usually) although there some inconsistencies in the text (for a change )
But I am still not certain about the benefits of the treaties. From a defensive standpoint Amber would be better off depopulating those shadow rings and establishing large garrisons to defend the shadow path (of course also true that for raw materials they would be better off depopulating them and settiing up large farms/mines/foresters etc ...) . this is surely preferable to having politically active scheming kingdoms trying to play the advantage, fix broken patterns, gathering armies to invade Amber etc etc.

I think that the books are written by Corwin and Merlin, and so they could be wrong, they could be mistaken, they could lie, they could not remember. So the inconsistencies for me are ok. Isn't real life full of that to the eye of the mortals? So what you say could be rational, but what does matter to me it's the possibilities for adventures and exciting plots, so shadows with scheming kingdoms are very promising as well as depopulated shadows, where new dangers could be at work without people to witness them. I try to see every defect/inconsistency  as an opportunity for roleplay.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you are wrong. I'm saying things could be seen from another point of view (as usually).

[jibbajibba]

I think that the books are written by Corwin and Merlin, and so they could be wrong, they could be mistaken, they could lie, they could not remember. So the inconsistencies for me are ok. Isn't real life full of that to the eye of the mortals? So what you say could be rational, but what does matter to me it's the possibilities for adventures and exciting plots, so shadows with scheming kingdoms are very promising as well as depopulated shadows, where new dangers could be at work without people to witness them. I try to see every defect/inconsistency  as an opportunity for roleplay.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you are wrong. I'm saying things could be seen from another point of view (as usually).

Oh I can see that as well but I am coming from a specific position here which is Amber has treaties with GC states and for some reason these are important enough for Amber to worry about and go to the effort of trying to maintain.
Just saying the details we have are wrong doesn't help me

Basically my GenCon plot revolves around the need to maintain treaty relations with a GC kingdom. If I don't have a compelling and plausible reason for that then whilst my plot will still work it will only work because the PCs don't ask any questions. I don't like that too much cos it smacks of a railroad (the events occuring are only occuring so as to give you an adventure to me is the basis of all railroad games).

So I put my assumptions up to get feedback and to see if there were other arguments that were more compelling because I don't think mine are 100% there.

[weilide]

Just thinking out loud (or in text, rather) but it would be a fun twist if it turned out that all the golden circle treaty business with trade and military strategy and the like turned to be a front, or at least secondary, for something bigger and more secret, possibly having to with the broken patterns or something like them. Perhaps there is something metaphysically important about the GC shadows (or at least the original ones) that could be relevant to Amber? For example, some kind of magic that could only be performed by a team of magicians coordinated in together across each of the shadows in the ring most proximate to Amber...