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Fan Forums => The Official Amber DRPG, Erick Wujcik, and Lords of Olympus Forum => Topic started by: Uncle Twitchy on November 27, 2007, 10:26:01 PM

Title: The Design Of The Pattern?
Post by: Uncle Twitchy on November 27, 2007, 10:26:01 PM
Hi, folks -- longtime lurker, first time poster. I've been playing RPGs since '78, and run Amber DRPG campaigns off and on since the first printing in '91 (my first Attribute Auction was on January 7, 1992). I'm a graphic designer and cartoonist. I like long walks on the beach and Pepsi and hate hypocrisy. I'm a Scorpio.

Anyway, enough about me.

I've just started planning a new campaign, and I've got a number of players who've never read any of the books (I know, I know -- I'm working on 'em. Kids today with their loud music and funny hair). One of them asked me, "So what does this Pattern look like?"

Well, this has been a question that's stuck in my craw since I read the original books in high school back in 1980. So the first thing I did was look online. And while there's plenty of speculation and drawings of the geography of Amber (the other craw-sticker for me), I've seen no attempts to draw anything that matches what Zelazny describes the Pattern to look like.

So I went back to the original descriptions, noting that it was about 450 feet long and 300 feet wide, was a continuous line like the classic labyrinths (unlike the Logrus, which is clearly a maze, and a 3-D one at that), where the entrance was (far left corner, if Rebma's is a mirrored reflection -- and we know it is because Corwin says it is), that it's mostly curved lines, and we can assume, given the size, that there is probably about 8 feet or so between the lines (based on the notion that two people passing each other could still engage in swordplay). So, with all this in mind, this is what I came up with:

(http://homepage.macomb.com/~sirchuck/images/Pattern.jpg)

Here it is with annotations based on the appropriate lines of text from NPIA:

0) I strode forward, setting my left foot upon the path. It was outlined by blue-white sparks. Then I set my right foot upon it, and I felt the current Random had mentioned.
I took another step.
There was a crackle and I felt my hair beginning to rise. I took another step.
1) Then the thing began to curve, abruptly, back upon itself. I took ten more paces, and a certain resistance seemed to arise. It was as if a black barrier had grown up before me, of some substance which pushed back upon me with each effort that I made to pass forward.
2) I fought it. It was the First Veil...
...Each raising and lowering of my foot suddenly required a terrible effort, and sparks shot from my hair. I concentrated on the firey line.
3) Suddenly the pressure was eased. The Veil had parted before me, as abruptly as it had occurred.
4) I was well into the Pattern now, and the sparks flashed continually about my feet, reaching to the height of my knees. I no longer knew which direction I faced...
The currents swept through me, and it seemed my eyeballs were vibrating. Then came a pins-and-needles feeling in my cheeks and a coldness on the back of my neck. I clenched my teeth to keep them from chattering.
5) I took six more rapid steps, reaching the end of an arc and coming to the beginning place of a straight line. I set my foot upon it, and with each step that I took, another barrier began to rise against me. It was the Second Veil.
6) There was a right-angle turn, then another, then another. Another curve began, and it was though I were walking in glue as I moved slowly along it.
One, two, three, four... I raised my firey boots and let them down again.
It was tricky, so devilish tricky... Instinctively, I knew that to leave the Pattern before I'd completed it would mean my death. I dared not raise my eyes from the places of light that lay before me, to see how far I had come, how far I had yet to go.
7) I emerged from the filigree and marched along the Grand Curve.
8) I walked three more curves, a straight line, and a series of sharp arcs.
9) Ten turn which left me dizzy, 10) another short arc, 11) a straight line, 12) and the Find Veil
It was agony to move. Everything tried to beat me aside. The waters were cold, then boiling. It seemed that they constantly pushed against me. I struggled, putting one foot before the other. The spark reached as high as my waist at this point, then my breast, my shoulders. They were into my eyes. They were all about me. I could barely see the Pattern itself.
13) Then a short arc, ending in blackness.
One, two... And to take the last step was like trying to push through a concrete wall.
I did it.

(http://homepage.macomb.com/~sirchuck/images/Pattern-with-Notes.jpg)

What do you think, sirs?
Title: The Design Of The Pattern?
Post by: Arref on November 27, 2007, 10:50:51 PM
I think that's a nice piece of work. I'm sure that the prayer labyrinths of Europe had some inspiration in Zelazny imagining the Pattern, and your design takes that approach.

I think your Pattern is too long a path and the first veil too close to the start, but that's just a note.

In another approach, I've always imagined the design as being more organic and erratic (though at a large scale.) After all, Dworkin scribes the Pattern while under assault of his senses and other Chaotic forces. I picture him weaving a bit.

In trying to determine a few 'narrative consistencies' for game play, I did my own sketch.

Found here:
http://www.skyseastone.net/itsog/shadows/005359.html

requires a pdf reader
Title: The Design Of The Pattern?
Post by: Nihilistic Mind on November 28, 2007, 02:54:51 AM
Well, in my mind (and I'm just basing this on what I've remembered of Zelazny's description of the walk as opposed to actively using reasonning based on the clues he left for us), the Pattern looks a lot like the diagrams of particles blowing up in bubble-chamber of particle accelerator. Do a google search for "particle bubble chamber" and you'll find the pictures I've referenced below.

I wouldn't use any particular one to define the Pattern's design, but I would imagine that arcs, curves and nearly straight lines could be combined to form what the Pattern truly looks like. Plus the exciting fact that the Pattern itself could be the basis of our Earth's blown up particles is a cool thought as well.

In any case, check these out to see what I'm thinking of:

(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c113/nihilisticmind/pattern1-1.jpg)

(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c113/nihilisticmind/pattern2.gif)

(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c113/nihilisticmind/pattern3.jpg)

(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c113/nihilisticmind/pattern4.jpg)

(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c113/nihilisticmind/pattern5.jpg)

What do you guys think? :p
Where the arcs meet/concentrate could represent the veils to cross, where the lines offer more resistance etc...
Title: The Design Of The Pattern?
Post by: Uncle Twitchy on November 28, 2007, 06:16:41 AM
Thanks for the comments, guys. I'm going to respond with what I hope you see as simple intellectual discourse and debate rather than reactionary defensiveness -- after all, since Zelazny never gave us the design anywhere, it's all just speculation, and every GM's interpretation of the work is going to be individualized to their personal aesthetic, which is one of the reasons why I love this game so much. None of us are right, and all of us are right -- in our own ways.

So, with that in mind...

Quote from: ArrefI think that's a nice piece of work. I'm sure that the prayer labyrinths of Europe had some inspiration in Zelazny imagining the Pattern, and your design takes that approach.

I think your Pattern is too long a path and the first veil too close to the start, but that's just a note.

That was a concern of mine, too, but on the flip-side, it's 450 feet long and 300 feet wide and you can swordfight with people you pass. That suggests that the lines are close enough together for that to happen. And considering the line was drawn in Dworkin's blood, it can't be too terribly wide. This tightens up the curves and lengthens the actual line itself considerably.

As for the First Veil coming too soon, I think that's an interpretation left up to each individual reader -- it seemed to me that it occurred right away after that first double-back. Every time Corwin walks the Pattern, it seems to happen immediately. Merlin in Sign of Chaos, too.

Nihilistic Mind, remember that Corwin describes it as being like a spider-web with mostly curves, and that Dworkin used the Pattern to enscribe order out of chaos -- the things that you've shown suggest too much chaos for my taste. I do think, as Arref suggests, that the prayer labyrinths were Zelazny's inspiration, and considering how regular his description of walking the Pattern was, I'm sure he had a specific design that he referenced when he wrote about it. And I'm sure, after reading all the descriptions of people walking the Pattern, that there's only one line and that it does not cross or intersect.

Of course, I don't have any illusions in thinking that my design is even close, other than hopefully in spirit, to what that design he had in mind was -- it just fits the narrative description as I've shown, and even then imperfectly (because it's just a shadow :) ) -- I mean, I had a bitch of a time trying to figure out the three right angles right before the entrance to the Grand Curve, since what I did actually has four.

And there are times when I think 21 circuits -- as opposed to the nine Arref suggests in his design or the 14 I originally went with -- are too many, considering how quickly Brand and Corwin make it to the point where they can fight in Hand of Oberon -- but then I remember that they're Amberites. They may negotiate certain points and lines a lot faster than the narrative suggests.

And I think it's interesting that Corwin's Pattern is described as having an off-center end-point by Merlin. That suggests a totally different layout.
Title: The Design Of The Pattern?
Post by: RPGPundit on November 28, 2007, 08:36:38 AM
Welcome, twitchy!

I agree that your pattern is much closer to how I imagine the Pattern to be in my mind than the other images we've seen thus far.

However, that said, it still doesn't seem to quite match what I envision it as, or based on the text.  I mean, we know that the pattern is "mostly curves", but also has long periods of straight lines, and "right angle turns".  I think you end up trying to jam the text into the image you came up with.  In particular the place you listed as number 6 just doesn't fit with what I see in my head when I read "There was a right-angle turn, then another, then another. Another curve began, and it was though I were walking in glue as I moved slowly along it."

But hey, its easily the closest image of the Pattern to what I envision. So good work!

Arref: I looked at yours, I don't see a single right-angle turn.
NM: you're so out in left field I can't even begin to list what's wrong with your ideas; for one thing, its very clear that the lines of the pattern do not cross.

RPGPundit
Title: The Design Of The Pattern?
Post by: Uncle Twitchy on November 28, 2007, 09:00:40 AM
Quote from: RPGPunditWelcome, twitchy!

Thanks! It's great to be here, and I've got a lot more that I want to contribute to what has easily been my favorite role playing game ever published (okay, 7th Seas is a reasonably close second).

QuoteHowever, that said, it still doesn't seem to quite match what I envision it as, or based on the text.  I mean, we know that the pattern is "mostly curves", but also has long periods of straight lines, and "right angle turns".

I've gotta agree.

QuoteI think you end up trying to jam the text into the image you came up with.

Though I did design it by following the text first and trying to visualize what Zelazny meant. But I see what you mean, to wit:

QuoteIn particular the place you listed as number 6 just doesn't fit with what I see in my head when I read "There was a right-angle turn, then another, then another. Another curve began, and it was though I were walking in glue as I moved slowly along it."

Exactly. It bugs me, and I've struggled with coming up with a fix for some time now. It'll come to me eventually, but for now -- for the next campaign I run, which will start sometime in early January after I write up my Player's Guide -- it will serve.
Title: The Design Of The Pattern?
Post by: Trevelyan on November 28, 2007, 10:56:52 AM
I don't see the Pattern as being entirely regular in the manner of Twitchy's design. That said, I imagine that it looks a lot more regular than the particle designs. Arref's design is closest to what I have in mind, although as Pundit mentions the Pattern constains a few right angles and straight lines.

IIRC the terminus is specifically described somewhere as being off centre, which would preclude a completely regular design.
Title: The Design Of The Pattern?
Post by: Uncle Twitchy on November 28, 2007, 11:02:08 AM
The terminus of Corwin's Pattern is described as being off-center by Merlin in SoC, but I'm almost certain Dworkin/Oberon's Pattern's terminus is centered according to Corwin.
Title: The Design Of The Pattern?
Post by: Trevelyan on November 28, 2007, 11:04:17 AM
Quote from: Uncle TwitchyThe terminus of Corwin's Pattern is described as being off-center by Merlin in SoC, but I'm almost certain Dworkin/Oberon's Pattern's terminus is centered according to Corwin.
The comment I'm thinking of may well be Merlin's comment about Corwin's Pattern.

Even so, it introduces the possibility of an irregular design which I would apply to both Patterns equally.
Title: The Design Of The Pattern?
Post by: Uncle Twitchy on November 28, 2007, 11:07:35 AM
Yeah, I could totally see that -- after all, Corwin was attuned and could walk the Pattern in his thoughts -- we see him hold the image of the Pattern in his mind as early as in GoA to tear through the Black Road -- and I'm sure he had the design in his mind when he drew his. Hmm. Good thought to ponder.

Of course, Merlin's "off-center" comment may be due to his Logrus-based schizophrenia... ;)
Title: The Design Of The Pattern?
Post by: Arref on November 28, 2007, 11:14:35 AM
Quote from: RPGPundit"There was a right-angle turn, then another, then another. Another curve began, and it was though I were walking in glue as I moved slowly along it."

Arref: I looked at yours, I don't see a single right-angle turn.
Agreed. About halfway through the walk there are three described in close succession.

I suppose if I inserted them, I'd still do something that looked less mechanical.
Title: The Design Of The Pattern?
Post by: Uncle Twitchy on November 28, 2007, 11:24:39 AM
There also needs to be the three curves, straight lines, ten dizzying turns, a short arc, and a straight line right after the Grand Curve.
Title: The Design Of The Pattern?
Post by: RPGPundit on November 28, 2007, 01:18:57 PM
Quote from: Uncle TwitchyThere also needs to be the three curves, straight lines, ten dizzying turns, a short arc, and a straight line right after the Grand Curve.

The term "Grand Curve" also suggests that the pattern is not as regular as your image, since "GRAND curve" would imply to me that its a curve that's bigger/longer than any of the other curves.

RPGPundit
Title: The Design Of The Pattern?
Post by: Uncle Twitchy on November 28, 2007, 01:43:37 PM
I do have a Grand Curve -- it spans 2/3rds of the circumference starting down at the bottom at #7 and goes all the way around to near the entrance up at the top.
Title: Welcome UTwitchy
Post by: gabriel_ss4u on November 28, 2007, 11:48:04 PM
I like your anal thought processes, much like my own. lol

I'm a bit OCD & anal-retentive, I spend tons of free time on designing stuff for my Amber campaign, like your Pattern design, which I like immensely, and better than any I've ever seen.
I've attempted a representation upon paper once, colored and sparklie, but it was more an abstract piece and just to be able to keep me from 'having done nothing about it', in my binder of Amber info.
I will definitely be adding it to my horde of Amber info, and THANK YOU.
If you update it I'd be happy to have a peek.

Matter of fact, I copied and pasted it the day you posted it, I like it that much.

The few questions/comments mentioned by the others that you agreed with echoed my thoughts. (although more eloquently)
The Pattern posted by NM was.... chaotic. ...... I like the thoughts for possible Logrus or Eligy (look in my other posts on Scions of the Serpent) ideas. I enjoy checking out 'fractal' images and such in getting ideas for chaotic designs.
Has anyone - by the way - thought of applying the Pattern of Phi code to a representation of Pattern similar to Twitchy's??????????????????
Just a thought.
Title: The Design Of The Pattern?
Post by: weilide on August 29, 2008, 01:16:11 AM
Uncle Twitchy's evocation of the Pattern is fairly close to the way I've always envisioned it. I have a hard time seeing the particle accelerator traces as the lines of the Pattern itself but they seem like a wonderful evocation of the showers of sparks that emerge when someone walks it.

For my part, I'd like to throw in elements from the Triple Spirals of Newgrange (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_spiral).

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/62/Newgrange_Entrance_Stone.jpg)

I like this for several reasons: (A) they're a Celtic or pre-Celtic Irish symbol which seems to resonate with some of the cultural inspiration for the series as a whole, (B) they're quite ancient, which means they can placed in the Amber universe as a distant reflection of the Pattern with the timing working out respectably with Dworkin's inscription of the Pattern, (C) they evidently exist within some ancient structure, which again echoes Amber.
Title: The Design Of The Pattern?
Post by: Ivanhoe on September 02, 2008, 08:13:21 AM
This is how Florence Magnin illustrated it in her trump deck:

(http://membres.lycos.fr/hiyami/library/amber1g.jpg)

I think I like the idea that it is a pattern hard to keep in mind if you are not an initiate to it.
Title: The Design Of The Pattern?
Post by: Trevelyan on September 03, 2008, 05:12:57 AM
The idea that the Pattern crosses over itself seems immensely wrong to me, somehow.
Title: The Design Of The Pattern?
Post by: Croaker on September 03, 2008, 06:09:42 AM
Same thing here. This is too bad, since I love Florence Magnin's drawings.
It thinks as if one could take "shortcuts" instead of just following the required path.
Title: The Design Of The Pattern?
Post by: Ivanhoe on September 03, 2008, 08:49:28 AM
Quote from: Trevelyan;243576The idea that the Pattern crosses over itself seems immensely wrong to me, somehow.

That bother me as well, but I like the rest of the rendering. Also remember what they say about Dworkin : it is an artist who didn't care for perspective and distances. Maybe it looks like the Pattern is crossing itself but you'll never happen to walk somewhere where a path crosses another path.

I generally say that no one can make an accurate drawing of the pattern without it having some power embedded. A mundane drawer would always have it wrong and an Amber Prince would have all the Corwin's troubles at drawing one accurately.
Title: Chartres Labyrinth
Post by: Thanateros on March 17, 2009, 05:28:04 PM
Quote from: Arref;159268I'm sure that the prayer labyrinths of Europe had some inspiration in Zelazny imagining the Pattern, and your design takes that approach.

I read an article once which discussed Zelazny's trip to France, but for the life of me now no amount of Googling will find it again.  Zelazny was enamored of Parisian life, which is reflected in Corwin's fond memories of his time in Paris.  Southwest of Paris is the town of Chartres, in which the famous Cathédrale Notre-Dame de Chartres is located.  On the floor of the Chartres Cathedral there is a massive "labyrinth".  By way of his visit to the Chartres Cathedral, the Chartres labyrinth (http://images.google.com/images?safe=off&q=Chartres%20labyrinth) was purported by the article to be Zelazny's inspiration for the Pattern of Amber.  Zelazny's descriptions of the dimensions of the Amberite Pattern alone though clearly show that the Amberite Pattern is not strictly identical to the Chartres labyrinth.
Title: The Design Of The Pattern?
Post by: RPGPundit on March 19, 2009, 12:31:22 AM
Yup, that seems very plausible.

RPGPundit
Title: The Design Of The Pattern?
Post by: KrakaJak on March 19, 2009, 03:18:42 AM
I just imagine it as a sparkly, flamey, Tron-line in the middle of an immense void.
Title: The Design Of The Pattern?
Post by: gabriel_ss4u on April 24, 2009, 01:29:13 AM
I like Florence Magnin's illustration, however I agree that the lines should not cross.
That's an interesting idea on Dworkin's perspective though, I like it too.

The Chartres labyrinth is awesome and is an excellent representation of a basic Pattern of Amber!
Luv it, thanks!
Title: The Design Of The Pattern?
Post by: gabriel_ss4u on April 24, 2009, 01:46:46 AM
Ooooooo...
lookee here;
http://www.labyrinthcompany.com/

My very OWN Pattern?
Title: Ultimate Amber LARP Prop
Post by: Thanateros on April 24, 2009, 07:18:25 PM
Quote from: gabriel_ss4u;298425http://www.labyrinthcompany.com/
My very OWN Pattern?

One of those portable labyrinths would be an absolutely invaluable prop in an Amber LARP.  I have a friend who helps run the AmberCon in Detroit.  I am going to suggest to him that the convention committee should rent a portable labyrinth (http://www.labyrinthcompany.com/view_category.php?category_id=5) for the next AmberCon.
Title: The Design Of The Pattern?
Post by: RPGPundit on April 27, 2009, 04:43:10 PM
That would be one hell of a cool prop for a LARP.

RPGPundit
Title: The Pattern
Post by: Sydius Mendoza on September 13, 2011, 08:04:42 AM
This is an image I made using GIMP. I started with a basic b&w line drawing of Chartres. Let me know what you think, I have a Logrus image as well.
Title: Logrus
Post by: Sydius Mendoza on September 14, 2011, 12:02:34 AM
I don't remember where I found the base image for this one.
Title: The Design Of The Pattern?
Post by: RPGPundit on September 17, 2011, 03:27:26 AM
Quite good both of them, pretty close to what I conceive of, particularly the Logrus.

RPGPundit
Title: The Design Of The Pattern?
Post by: finarvyn on September 17, 2011, 05:40:38 PM
I like the way this looks. It came from the Labyrinth Company page mentioned earlier.
(http://www.labyrinthcompany.com/images/mainpics/1.jpg)

Of course, Amber's wouldn't be stone but would be blue fire, but this kind of thing looks wide enough for a person to stand and sword-fight while walking it.

They key for me is that the Pattern has to be a single path and not a maze that forks. This particular one doesn't have the right-angle turns, either, but it is pretty. :)
Title: The Design Of The Pattern?
Post by: RPGPundit on September 18, 2011, 03:18:50 AM
That one does look quite good too.

I also agree that the pattern just doesn't feel to me to be a conventional labyrinth.  I suppose, though, that it was a masterstroke on Zelazny's part never to have an actually sufficient description of the Pattern; it means that the way everyone visualizes how it looks in their head is different.

RPGPundit
Title: The Design Of The Pattern?
Post by: Sydius Mendoza on September 18, 2011, 01:36:25 PM
Thanks Pundit. I've been a huge fan of Zelazny ( particularly the Amber series) for well over a decade. I've never played the DRPG before but I've been dying to try it out. The problem is the same that can plague any Campaign, time commitments and what not. But the bigger issue has been trying to find someone to GM. I finally got tired of not finding anyone, and decided to start constructing a campaign myself. This forum has been a great resource for story ideas and more importantly game mechanics. I have next to no GM experience so I'm "Flying blind on a rocket-cycle" so to speak.
Title: The Design Of The Pattern?
Post by: daniel_ream on September 19, 2011, 04:52:33 PM
I find the speculation surprising; I thought it was fairly well known that Irish Celtic history and mythology were a huge influence on the Amber Chronicles, and the Pattern is just a supercharged version of your everyday Celtic labyrinth.

One thing that's true about all of Zelazny's writing is that it's very spare.  He gets a lot across by implication rather than explicit detail (a lost art in fantasy writing, truly).  Add to that the fact that the Amber Chronicles are demonstrably Unreliable Narrator (in spades) and trying to cleave closely to the text is probably an exercise in frustration.
Title: The Design Of The Pattern?
Post by: Bird_of_Ill_Omen on September 21, 2011, 12:32:16 AM
Here's the pattern my brother came up with based on Corwin's description of it as he walked.  That arc in the 2nd lap that's a 3/4 circle is supposed to be The Grand Curve that Corwin mentions.

(A jpeg of the image should appear below if I'm doing this right.  If there's no image then I clearly don't know how to work this internet stuff properly.)
Title: The Design Of The Pattern?
Post by: warp9 on September 23, 2011, 07:48:28 PM
Quote from: daniel_ream;480219One thing that's true about all of Zelazny's writing is that it's very spare.  He gets a lot across by implication rather than explicit detail (a lost art in fantasy writing, truly).  Add to that the fact that the Amber Chronicles are demonstrably Unreliable Narrator (in spades) and trying to cleave closely to the text is probably an exercise in frustration.
Unfortunately, that is not the best situation to base an RPG off of. Sometimes it is good for the people in an Amber game to be able agree upon those details.
Title: The Design Of The Pattern?
Post by: warp9 on September 23, 2011, 07:49:26 PM
Quote from: Bird_of_Ill_Omen;480670Here's the pattern my brother came up with based on Corwin's description of it as he walked.  That arc in the 2nd lap that's a 3/4 circle is supposed to be The Grand Curve that Corwin mentions.
I like that one. :)
Title: The Design Of The Pattern?
Post by: Malleus Aforethought on September 24, 2011, 07:13:21 PM
Quote from: Bird_of_Ill_Omen;480670Here's the pattern my brother came up with based on Corwin's description of it as he walked.  That arc in the 2nd lap that's a 3/4 circle is supposed to be The Grand Curve that Corwin mentions.

I think that would be an excellent starting point. I've always imagined it would be a bit more elaborate than that. But what you've presented is good given, as previously noted, Zelazny's relatively sparse narrative.
Title: The Design Of The Pattern?
Post by: BillionSix on February 26, 2012, 11:07:23 PM
Quote from: Bird_of_Ill_Omen;480670Here's the pattern my brother came up with based on Corwin's description of it as he walked.  That arc in the 2nd lap that's a 3/4 circle is supposed to be The Grand Curve that Corwin mentions.

(A jpeg of the image should appear below if I'm doing this right.  If there's no image then I clearly don't know how to work this internet stuff properly.)

I like that one a lot. I would like to see it expanded into a Pattern drawing, with a bit more artistry. Also, it should be slightly distorted to be less circular and more oval, like the Pattern was said to be.
Title: The Design Of The Pattern?
Post by: RPGPundit on March 01, 2012, 11:11:08 PM
Quote from: Bird_of_Ill_Omen;480670Here's the pattern my brother came up with based on Corwin's description of it as he walked.  That arc in the 2nd lap that's a 3/4 circle is supposed to be The Grand Curve that Corwin mentions.

(A jpeg of the image should appear below if I'm doing this right.  If there's no image then I clearly don't know how to work this internet stuff properly.)

That's very interesting. Very uneven, but on the plus side it looks more like something sci-fi, like some kind of a mathematical diagram, than a benedictine labyrinth.

RPGPundit
Title: The Design Of The Pattern?
Post by: Brent Not Broken on March 21, 2012, 12:02:14 PM
Quote from: daniel_ream;480219One thing that's true about all of Zelazny's writing is that it's very spare.  He gets a lot across by implication rather than explicit detail (a lost art in fantasy writing, truly).
This is really one of my favorite things about Zelazny, and always has been.

Nine Princes in Amber was the first time I had ever come across his writing, and I remember being blown away by the scene when Corwin is leafing through the Trumps he stole from his sister, recalling his family members one at a time. I remember being amazed at how Zelazny conjured such clear impressions of all these characters with just two or three sentences about each one-- often doing little or no "real description", just throwing in some evocative words and nudging readers toward generating their own impressions.

That scene made me think a lot about communication in fiction, and it changed the way I run games and the way I write stories. I'm always striving to imitate that element of Zelazny's style.
Title: The Design Of The Pattern?
Post by: BillionSix on March 21, 2012, 01:24:31 PM
Quote from: Brent Not Broken;522839This is really one of my favorite things about Zelazny, and always has been.

Nine Princes in Amber was the first time I had ever come across his writing, and I remember being blown away by the scene when Corwin is leafing through the Trumps he stole from his sister, recalling his family members one at a time. I remember being amazed at how Zelazny conjured such clear impressions of all these characters with just two or three sentences about each one-- often doing little or no "real description", just throwing in some evocative words and nudging readers toward generating their own impressions.

That scene made me think a lot about communication in fiction, and it changed the way I run games and the way I write stories. I'm always striving to imitate that element of Zelazny's style.

That reminds of of something odd. There is a small indie game called octaNe, by Memento Mori Games. Not the greatest game in the world, but geared towards silly, over-the-top one-shots.
Anyway, one of the things I remember in character generation was that it gave guidelines on how you describe your character. If you give a long drawn-out three paragraph description, everyone will be bored. So the rules say, "list three details."
So, if you your character has "a dusty overcoat, a scar on his cheek, and a gravelly voice," everyone instantly has an idea of what the character looks like.

This is why I don't read much anymore, unless it's by someone like Zelazny, who has a sense of literary economy. Seriously, I think this is why teen fiction has become a genre by itself, enjoyed by lots of adults. It's quick, punchy and to the point.

Brian
Title: The Design Of The Pattern?
Post by: RPGPundit on March 23, 2012, 09:43:48 PM
Zelazny was a real master of literary economy, yes.  He was definitely of the Hemingway school.

RPGPundit
Title: The Design Of The Pattern?
Post by: Sydius Mendoza on December 19, 2012, 04:06:07 PM
OK, slightly off-topic, but certainly an adjacent to the current thread/shadow. I embedded an image that is water marked in the first page of every chapter in the Merlin-cycle (In the big book). I always assumed it was supposed to be a symbol for Ghostwheel. However, during a recent re-read I had the thought that it could also be a representation of the Spikard.

Oh snap! I just thought of a third possibility, in that it could also represent a broken pattern. The last one is a bit of a stretch.

It seemed a bit thin to start a new thread, but I'll differ to Pundit's judgement on that.

That being said... It's Amber-Rorschach test time! Tell me what you see
Title: The Design Of The Pattern?
Post by: Panjumanju on December 20, 2012, 09:45:20 PM
Quote from: Sydius Mendoza;610112OK, slightly off-topic, but certainly an adjacent to the current thread/shadow. I embedded an image that is water marked in the first page of every chapter in the Merlin-cycle (In the big book). I always assumed it was supposed to be a symbol for Ghostwheel. However, during a recent re-read I had the thought that it could also be a representation of the Spikard.

Oh snap! I just thought of a third possibility, in that it could also represent a broken pattern. The last one is a bit of a stretch.

It seemed a bit thin to start a new thread, but I'll differ to Pundit's judgement on that.

That being said... It's Amber-Rorschach test time! Tell me what you see

I like your ideas...it's an interesting design, at any rate. I don't think necessarily it was intended to be any of those, but it's nice to have something in the content that ambiguously sparks the imagination such. Very Zelazny.

//Panjumanju
Title: The Design Of The Pattern?
Post by: Sydius Mendoza on December 20, 2012, 10:03:41 PM
What made me think it was either of the first two possiblities is that the water mark in the Corwin series is a Rose. So I figured the symbol had to be something directly relating to Merlin.
Title: The Design Of The Pattern?
Post by: RPGPundit on December 21, 2012, 01:14:35 AM
Interesting catch. But if I was to guess I'd be that's supposed to be ghostwheel.

RPGPundit
Title: The Design Of The Pattern?
Post by: Premier on December 21, 2012, 04:45:56 AM
Quote from: Sydius Mendoza;610112That being said... It's Amber-Rorschach test time! Tell me what you see

I see a nautilus. Did I win something?
Title: The Design Of The Pattern?
Post by: Sydius Mendoza on December 21, 2012, 09:32:20 AM
Quote from: Premier;610525I see a nautilus. Did I win something?



I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul. LOL.
Title: The Design Of The Pattern?
Post by: RPGPundit on December 27, 2012, 12:22:28 AM
I see you got yourself an avatar, there.

RPGPundit
Title: The Design Of The Pattern?
Post by: Sydius Mendoza on December 27, 2012, 02:06:29 PM
Quote from: RPGPundit;611710I see you got yourself an avatar, there.

RPGPundit

Indeed. I ran the B&W image through some manipulation using GIMP. Same program I used to make the Pattern and Logrus images I shared earlier on in this thread. I've also been toying with it to make Trump images. I'm a terrible artist when it comes to painting or drawing by hand. I've been thinking about posting some of the Elder Trumps I have been working on for my campaign. Most of them start with pics of actors I think would fit the parts. For example here is the Trump of Brand I plan to use. I started with a still of Alan Tudyk from A Knights Tale.
Title: The Design Of The Pattern?
Post by: RPGPundit on December 28, 2012, 12:07:38 AM
Well, that came out looking quite good!

RPGPundit
Title: The Design Of The Pattern?
Post by: Sydius Mendoza on December 28, 2012, 02:54:03 PM
Thanks!
Title: The Design Of The Pattern?
Post by: Panjumanju on December 28, 2012, 08:55:22 PM
Quote from: RPGPundit;612233Well, that came out looking quite good!

RPGPundit

I agree!

//Panjumanju