The Complete Castle Amber Room List Thread

[Otha]

...it depends on the period in question. If we assume that the core of the castle is medieaval then two rooms per family member is exceedingly generous, for later periods it is merely reasonable. Remember that there are a large number of communal rooms for the entire family so the two rooms are really just private space.

Indeed.  My personal take on the castle is that above ground, real estate is rather dear; rooms with windows moreso.  Below ground, there are many many chambers and rooms, often disused or sealed off.

[Djoul]

I also like to think about a huge underground space. In general I think castle Amber shall be a maze with many different rooms.

Once in a very unorthodox campaign there was a city underground. The city of the dead. They had there own rules and kings (dead amberites) and there was huge river called the Styx. When player got to know about it they were shocked.

[jibbajibba]

For one thing the lack of space to build on (the castle is pretty much surrounded by a city and a garden), for another there are your siblings (Benedict might be particularly fond of the section of the garden that you want to build over - do you really want to annoy him?), then there might be standing orders from Oberon that no contractor in Amber is to build an extension to the castle without his expressed permission (although you could always try building that extension yourself). Hell, in the Merlin series teh castle itself might object to anyone making unplanned changes!


Bollocks. OR rather it depends on the period in question. If we assume that the core of the castle is medieaval then two rooms per family member is exceedingly generous, for later periods it is merely reasonable. Remember that there are a large number of communal rooms for the entire family so the two rooms are really just private space.

Well I haven't been about for a while so here is my belated repoiste. Most castles with medieaval origns that are not ruins were build on and expanded by later generations. Amberites have had a 1000 years plus of permanent residence to add change and expand. There might be a space issue but you can build upwards. If you read the castle description in the link I posted, which was not a step you took obviously, most additional quarters were replacements of existing outbuilding. The first castle has a large barracks block, that is later turned into a set of appartments, the quartmaster's tower is taken over and adapted and he is kicked into a set of rooms in the cellars someplace.

Sure technology does not work in Amber but physics does. Decent plumbing is not a technological thing its an application of physics.  So a boiler somewhere that can heat water seems reasonable, it can be powered by wood after all and they do have fires in Amber. You place this on the roof some place link up some pipes and you have a shower.. Yes getting water up there needs a pump but just buy a donkey and sit him in a wheel someplace.

As for the castle being surrounded by city I always thought the castle sat above the city on the rocky side of Kolvir with the city and harbour below. That might just be my interpretation. So you can always clear a bit more mountain just need to shadow path in a few dwarves :-)

Elder Amberites might take umbrage but do you think Brand would care that that orchard was Bley's favourite place to read a book ? Especially if Bleys had been away for 50 years and Brand really wanted to build an observatory on it.
 
Check out the history of a few European castles to see where I am going with this, Hampton Court is a great example as is Leeds castle but any one of them that had permanent occupancy would do.

[Lawbag]

isnt there a proper guide co-written by MrZ himself detailing the ins and outs of the castle?

[jibbajibba]

isnt there a proper guide co-written by MrZ himself detailing the ins and outs of the castle?

The Visual Guide to Castle Amber is Horrible. It's not just the rubbish illustrations the propensity to reduce Elder amberites to one dimentional sterotypes (Benedict is a warrior, the Japense are warriors Benedict must love all things Japanese so he has a Japanese garden, a Japanese bedroom all this despite the fact in the books he is never in any way Japanesey) or the incredibly corny bits (the manacles and traces of blood on the wall in Brand's bedroom where he tortured inocent creatures for fun). It's just bad.

Oh and architecturally a pentagonal castle with no light wells such that none of the Elder Amberites tiny pokey chambers actually have windows would probably be a no no (oh and very limited bathroom facilities)

[Cab]

Check out the history of a few European castles to see where I am going with this, Hampton Court is a great example as is Leeds castle but any one of them that had permanent occupancy would do.

Better example, one that might be more reminiscent of Amber, might be Bamburgh. Dunno why, but I always visualised the castle looking rather like Bamburgh.

[Arref]

Well I haven't been about for a while so here is my belated repoiste. Most castles with medieaval origns that are not ruins were build on and expanded by later generations. Amberites have had a 1000 years plus of permanent residence to add change and expand. There might be a space issue but you can build upwards. If you read the castle description in the link I posted, which was not a step you took obviously, most additional quarters were replacements of existing outbuilding. The first castle has a large barracks block, that is later turned into a set of appartments, the quartmaster's tower is taken over and adapted and he is kicked into a set of rooms in the cellars someplace.

Elder Amberites might take umbrage but do you think Brand would care that that orchard was Bley's favourite place to read a book ? Especially if Bleys had been away for 50 years and Brand really wanted to build an observatory on it.
 
Check out the history of a few European castles to see where I am going with this, Hampton Court is a great example as is Leeds castle but any one of them that had permanent occupancy would do.

While I think it is a natural to assume we learn something about Amber from Earth, it would seem your analogy is a bit thin and getting thinner. It could work that way in your Amber.

However, in canon, Oberon is king from the dawn of time. There are no later generations of nobles to expand/change things around or lose emotional attachment to the way it was when they grew up. Asking to change Oberon's castle to your liking is something like walking into Buckingham palace and proposing an observatory be built on the roof.

They'll laugh you out of court.

Why would you? Are you smarter than the old man? And even if it is a smashing idea, why do you suppose the king will let you try wonderful ideas on his castle? The canon supposes Oberon is ten times older than Benedict and smarter than most of his kids.

Go build your own castle.  Preferably in a shadow far away.

The earthly European castles are modified (and layered across centuries) because of new kings, changing culture, technology, changes in warfare and lots of other factors that do not apply to Amber.

Would Oberon add indoor plumbing? Well, most Oberon's in most games probably would because in "our modern mindset" we expect it. Would Oberon listen to a complaining scion explain how their room was too small and they really needed a window because Eric had one?

No.

Or gee, Dad, do you mind if I knock down the apple orchard and build an observatory on the grounds? What's that? Well no, I didn't think about the warfare implications. Who would attack us? Oh, I guess I didn't think it through. What? Scouting duty! A five decade tour of shadow!! Dad!

Yes, I do think Amber castle started as a military installation. Yes, I think it has been expanded and improved. However, I think it has been built to no one's consideration except Oberon's.

YMMV

[jibbajibba]

While I think it is a natural to assume we learn something about Amber from Earth, it would seem your analogy is a bit thin and getting thinner. It could work that way in your Amber.

However, in canon, Oberon is king from the dawn of time. There are no later generations of nobles to expand/change things around or lose emotional attachment to the way it was when they grew up. Asking to change Oberon's castle to your liking is something like walking into Buckingham palace and proposing an observatory be built on the roof.

They'll laugh you out of court.

Why would you? Are you smarter than the old man? And even if it is a smashing idea, why do you suppose the king will let you try wonderful ideas on his castle? The canon supposes Oberon is ten times older than Benedict and smarter than most of his kids.

Go build your own castle.  Preferably in a shadow far away.

The earthly European castles are modified (and layered across centuries) because of new kings, changing culture, technology, changes in warfare and lots of other factors that do not apply to Amber.

Would Oberon add indoor plumbing? Well, most Oberon's in most games probably would because in "our modern mindset" we expect it. Would Oberon listen to a complaining scion explain how their room was too small and they really needed a window because Eric had one?

No.

Yes, I do think Amber castle started as a military installation. Yes, I think it has been expanded and improved. However, I think it has been built to no one's consideration except Oberon's.

YMMV

That is fair comment.
I would say that the changing nature of castles on Shadow earth is relevant as these are surely shadows of Amber themselves so represent some reflection of what goes on there.
I would still thaink that Oberon would be more willing to change stuff arround himself I mean I get bored with the same decor in my house after 3 or 4 years no reason to assume that Oberon is any less fickle with his interior design and architecture than he is with his women.

[Nihilistic Mind]

That is fair comment.
I would say that the changing nature of castles on Shadow earth is relevant as these are surely shadows of Amber themselves so represent some reflection of what goes on there.
I would still thaink that Oberon would be more willing to change stuff arround himself I mean I get bored with the same decor in my house after 3 or 4 years no reason to assume that Oberon is any less fickle with his interior design and architecture than he is with his women.

To me, Oberon does seem like a man set in his ways. He seems to treat the women just the same. He changes them out frequently because they wither faster than he can handle.

I personally like to think of the Amber Castle as something quite Grand, involving multiple architectural styles from shadows of the Golden Circle... But that may be due to the description found in the ADRPG. I'll have to look for passages describing it within the novels...

IMC, the castle is full of terrasses and balconies, private boudoirs and small courtrooms where nobility does business. It also has dancing halls and is essentially a place for social gatherings.

Amber, the city is fortified and although I like the idea of the castle itself being a military necessity first and foremost, I tend to imagine any additions made to the castle would involve the need for social interactions, with Kings and Queens of the Golden Circle, and their retainers, visiting the Great Amber King Oberon and his large family of prodigies.

In the end, Oberon remains a practical man, and the Amber Castle could very well have remained what it was for millenia...

What about an Royal Amber Treasury? Anyone play around with that idea?

[CoffeeNPizza]

IMC a good portion of the dungeons is filled with treasure of all kinds, particularly gold. I took the concept of shadow dwellers who reside in Amber becoming more real, a la Bill Roth in the merlin series, and applied it to other things like precious metals. Hence gold becomes more real. Perhaps this is the wrong thread but it was inspired by the what I thought the golden circle's economy must be like. Sure it really doesn't effect the Amber Royals but it still had to have a working economy.

[Otha]

Maybe we can open another thread for that?

[Trevelyan]

Check out the history of a few European castles to see where I am going with this, Hampton Court is a great example as is Leeds castle but any one of them that had permanent occupancy would do.

Being British, living in the South East of England, being a member of the National Trust and English Heritage and having visited both Leeds Castle and Hampton Court on several occasions I found this amusing.

But perhaps our differences lie in having very different concepts of Castle Amber. You suggest that the castle might have numerous outbuildings housing different rooms, yet we never see evidence of more than a single structure in the books. All rooms appear to be held within a central building.

Given that we know each Amberite has a small suit of maybe two rooms each, and given that as a group they are likely to have taken more rooms were they available, I assume that space within the castle, at least fashionable space, is limited.

I'm also not sure how easy it is to start building when you're more than half way up a mountain. I assume that the city is built on a relatively level (i.e. gently sloping) plateau and that where additional space readily available it would already have been utilised.

Here is a general question - do people see Castle Amber as more of a fortified castle (like Leeds) or more of a palace (Hampton Court)?

[Cab]

Here is a general question - do people see Castle Amber as more of a fortified castle (like Leeds) or more of a palace (Hampton Court)?

A fortification that is defensible in itself, but largely depending on a superb natural position. Hence comparing it with Bamburgh castle. But I see it as being bigger, and obviously higher up a mountain

See:

http://www.castlexplorer.co.uk/england/bamburgh/bamburgh.php

[Arref]

Here is a general question - do people see Castle Amber as more of a fortified castle (like Leeds) or more of a palace (Hampton Court)?

I see it as being a fortified castle that has a minor layers of palace applied.

For instance, you can add a balcony or a carriage house or a stables or a garden and the castle still is a contained fortified structure.

[jibbajibba]

I think your take on the Castle is always going to be individual but there are two main positions.
i) Canonical - you try to make your castle as much like as the one in the books. Problem with  this is that the castle doesn't feature much in the books it is at best a sketchy backdrop against which the protagonists act out their various plots etc. I would say that Zelazny does this deliberately as he is concerned with character above all else and a detailed description of the castle would slow the books down and add very little.  That is great for the books but not ideal from a RPG perspective. The Visual Guide to Castle Amber tries to build a canonical castle but, in my opinion, the results are less than stellar because some of Zelazny's ideas are themselves less than stellar.

ii) Invididual - you make the castle fit the logic of your game. Now my position, as clear from my previous posts, is that this si much more sensible an approach. As GMs we have the time and imagination to create whatever Castle we want. In my game the family have a modern outlook, similar to Corwin's postion in the books, and so want modern luxuries and are willing to put in a bit of effort to get them. I offered a couple of points for designs of players chambers in the castle and so got good response. I then fitted these into my conception of what the castle should be and how it makes my game work better. So my players really built my castle for me. In my version of Amber the castle was a fortress but due to extended period of peace and the ability to relocate functions to the growing city parts of the castle were adapted and added to. As Oberon had kids and they didn't leave but hung arround so they adapted the castle rooms, a set of storerooms became an appartment, a  watch tower became a penthouse etc. Now My Oberon didn't really see the need to force his mark on the castle so he let his children build and develop it. Its just shadow at the end of the day so he can always change it back if he really wants to. I can see that in an Amber where there have been years of war and turbulance the castle would remain a fortress and Oberon is not going to let anyone build stuff if it compromises the ability for the castle to act as a defensive structure. I still can't quite swallow some of the canonical castle elements , like the pentagon shape and the 2 rooms per person, as I think they are just badly thought out but they are definitely what is in the book so up to each GM to decide.