Superhero genre ADRP

[finarvyn]

I've been debating if this is an ADRP topic (small following) or a General RPG topic (large following). I finally picked ADRP because I think it's more relevant here, although I know that this would be seen by more viewers if I put it in general.

I've often felt like any setting which is appropriately power-heavy and cinematic could be a good fit for ADRP. Recently I re-watched Man of Steel and Superman v Batman and the new Wonder Woman movie, and I can't help myself -- I start thinking about how one would stat out the characters using ADRP stats. I'm sure I made similar comments on other threads somewhere hereabouts regarding Arrow or some of the other superhero TV shows, so this isn't the first time I've thought about this stuff. I have several players who aren't "into" Amber but love comic book heroes, so I thought that a campaign like that could be a lot of fun and a sneaky way to introduce them to Amber Diceless.

A couple of questions to ask:

(1) I'm aware of the free superhero ADRP rules out there (Attack of the Mutant rules, or something like that) but have never tried to use those point systems to build characters. I am curious if anyone has used those rules and to what success.

(2) Also, I'm wondering if there are any sources where Marvel or DC ranked their hero abilities in any way. (Is Superman faster than Flash? That sort of thing.) I need to hunt around for my old Marvel Super Heroes rules because I feel like they had a ranking system there, but I have no idea if there is an equivalent for DC characters. Having an actual number for each stat would be nice, but since ADRP actually uses ranks then I wouldn't need anything more than a rank of top to bottom.

[finarvyn]

I did find my earlier thread, from two years ago. Some neat discussion, but doesn't quite answer either of my two questions....

http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?32680-Arrow

[Jason D]

I ran two highly-successful superhero games at ACNW: The Uncanny A-Men and Justice League of Amber. Both were loosely assembled, but tons of fun.

I really didn't bother doing a lot of defining powers other than giving some benchmarks.

Blaze (Flash/Bleys) was a super-speedster in the JLA-verse, and had Exalted Superspeed [100 Points]. I gave a few limits to what he could do, and mentioned that his super-speed was backed by his Warfare when relating to conflicts.

Torch (Pyro/Brand) in the A-Men universe was given Fire Control [75 Points] and had some specifics, like being able to choose whether to do Double, Deadly, Destructive, or Primal damage.

The highlight, I think, was watching Murray Wittle running around in a cape as the Headhunter (Martian Manhunter/Gerard), turning a loose freeform into method acting.

[Headless]

Damn beat me to it.

I've been thinking of this for a bit actually.  I think the perfect reboot for the Amber Diceless engine would be the Marvel cinematic universe.  

Generic suppers wont do it.  It has to be a specific setting and charcter set with broad current appeal to a modern audience.  Additionally it really needs a quick primer that players not familiar with the setting can read or watch so they know the stakes.

I was actully coming here to start this thread.  I also wasn't sure if it should go here or in general.  Based on where I left off in my double review of Olympus and Gossamer, Amber diceless needs Mavel becuase it needs a center.  Marvel is a center.  People know the stakes, they know the charcters.  They know whats Important.  Use the cinamatic universe becuase its big (9 movies or more now?) but still consistant.  It hasn't been reconed to shit. Or the center hadn't been retconned out of it.  If Nick Fury contacts you you know that that means.  Or rather you don't know what that means becuase its Nick Fury and thats exactly the point.  But if Captain America contacts you, you know what that means.  You can trust spiderman, but you can't necessarily trust that someone else isn't manipulating him.   We know that Thanos is a bad dude, and even though its not in any of the movies everyone has been told by now that he wants to kill everyone as a present to Death.  We know the Infinity stones are a thing, a very powerful thing and we should get them, or at least keep others from having them.  We know enough that we can make a charcter jump in and play with out having to spend a tonne of time discovering the game.  In Gossamer, my game and to a lesser extent Olympus if I want to use any piece I have to put it in place first.  
"Cronos is back" -Who?
"The Red Skull is back!" "Oh shit son!"

By the way the Red skull didn't die and will be showing back up.

Mechanically Marvel movies line up with Amber Diceless.  Multiple worlds check 3 different kinds. Regular space travel, parallel worlds and the 9 worlds on Yadrissil.  Plus what ever Doctor Strange is doing.  Bonds of Family loyalty and betral? Check, Thor and Loki, Nebula and Gamorra, the Avengers team, Mutants, Magneto and Professor X. Even an implied Ranking.  Hulk is first in Strength.  Professor X is first in psyche, Strange is high ranked in Psyche and has a couple different lesser Magics to go with it.  The Scarlet witch is lower still in Psyche but has advanced pattern or atleat thats how I would rate her reality altering powers.  Spider-Man or Wolverine is first in endurance (depending on whether you focus that stat on healing or suffering) and Batman is first in Warfare.

Tony Stark either has conguring or bought an expensive suit as an extra. Star Lord jumping to the Auction bid on everything won nothing and didn't have anything left for powers.  The DM gave him a space ship.

I could go on for a while.  I have two points first, Amber needs a Centre to be playable, Marvel could be that centre.

2 Marvel is a good mechanical fit for the system.

[finarvyn]

I like the way you are thinking about this. Any interest in trying to stat out some heroes, or rank them, or anything like that?

[Malleus Aforethought]

Off the top of my head, Marvel ranks:

Feeble/2, Poor/4, Typical/6, Good/10, Excellent/20, Remarkable/30, Incredible/40, Amazing/50, Monstrous/75, Unearthly100, Shift X/150, Class 1000/1000, Class 5000/5000*. Average human was Typical in that system. Can't recall if the human base was lift 100 pounds (or maybe 50?), Good/400, and Excellent/800, but Remarkable was 1 ton, Incredible 10 tons, Amazing 50 tons, Monstrous 75, Unearthly 100, ShiftX 150, etc. Stats were Fighting, Agility, Strength, Endurance, Reason, Intuition, and Psyche. Your iconics were typically between Amazing and Unearthly in their prime stat/power. I'm a little fuzzy on the lifting capacity of the lower ranks, but Remarkable+ are correct.

Marvel absorbed the mundane better, so you could just say, "It's a flashlight," and it didn't need a super power to function as a flash light.

*I think that's all of them. Might be a another Shift rank in there, like 500 or something.

DC is better suited to Uber-Super-Powered characters by dint of using a logarithmic scale. I think the original base  scale was 0-50, with Superman being tops at 50 Strength, Wonder Woman at 48 Strength. And, if I further recall correctly, original DC was every +1 was x2 the previous #, so Supe's 50 Strength was really insane. On the other hand, you can't build a fork in that system won't break down after a while. Average human was a 2 on that scale, lifting between 80-100 pounds. I think the scale was based on 0=10 kilos (for Strength). DC attributes were a triple set of Acting/Effect/Resistance in Physical, Mental, and Mystical: Dexterity/Strength/Body, Intelligence/Will/Mind, Influence/Aura/Spirit.

Revised DC either scaled back the scale or scaled back the abilities of the iconics in the system. I might actually have that book around. Everything else is in storage in another state. But if it's here, I'll double check...and I don't.

[finarvyn]

I think I have a copy of Marvel Super Heroes somewhere, or a PDF if not a physical copy. I don't have the DC game, however. It would be interesting to compare the scales of the two games to see if they have anything in common, and maybe to see if one could graft it onto an Amber style ranking scale.

I like the "superman is 50, wonder woman at 49" thing. That's practically an Amber rank system already. :-)

[Malleus Aforethought]

I find it hard to reconcile the two systems into the same model. They were really intended to model two different styles of genre. DC had to fit normal people and Superman into the same universe, so the scale is pretty crazy at the 50 end of things, but at the same time, makes it harder to model some more mundane things. Marvel is a bit more cinematic, but had to shoehorn the uber-beings into a scale that was never really designed to handle them in normal play, thus the Class 5000 range. I think even Shift X was tacked on to the basic game.

[finarvyn]

I agree with your assessment, but I think it comes down to the scale of Amberites. If you go with the "Amberites are gods" theory then a superhero scale is probably appropriate, but if you instead say that "Amberites are really good but not godlike" then you probably need a scale closer to normal.

[Headless]

One of my favorite things about Amber (and all of Zelazny s characters) is how they are fragile gods. Sure they can pick up a car, but Corwin has as much chance of surving a knife in the ribs as say Indiana Jones.

[John Scott]

(2) Also, I'm wondering if there are any sources where Marvel or DC ranked their hero abilities in any way. (Is Superman faster than Flash? That sort of thing.) I need to hunt around for my old Marvel Super Heroes rules because I feel like they had a ranking system there, but I have no idea if there is an equivalent for DC characters. Having an actual number for each stat would be nice, but since ADRP actually uses ranks then I wouldn't need anything more than a rank of top to bottom.

I think you'll find what you are looking for here http://www.writeups.org/