Sorcery Casting Times

[Panjumanju]

Yup, and a headache for the GM to figure out how to make sure this doesn't just become a convenient runaround of the rules.  Usually for me the solution lies in making sure that this is seen as an advantage that the PC's enemies will want to neutralize or sabotage somehow.

RPGPundit

I find this one of the biggest hurtles GMing - every game I've run there has been someone with Sorcery who wants to screw with time for spells.

The only successful tactic I've had is bring it back to Endurance. "Sure, you went into your shadow and slowed down time for all these spells...but you've been on your feet for 20 hours and it's 10am."

//Panjumanju

[jibbajibba]

I find this one of the biggest hurtles GMing - every game I've run there has been someone with Sorcery who wants to screw with time for spells.

The only successful tactic I've had is bring it back to Endurance. "Sure, you went into your shadow and slowed down time for all these spells...but you've been on your feet for 20 hours and it's 10am."

//Panjumanju

I tend to instigate a max/min time flow of amber x5. So the courts run at amber x5 for example
Then i explicitly reference magic of shadow as a feature of each shadow and part of its profile are the strength Of spells cast as a multiplier (0 - 1.0) to psyche and the time it takes to hang magics and enchant objects. Needless to say faster shadows have slower magic casting times. Also the strength of magic part means sorcerers are always looking for sources of power like the keep of the four worlds that they can tap across shadow to increase their spell power.

[Taewakan]

I took EW's advice to cheat to heart. I make my formulas for things like time modification/adjustment based upon the Elders' attributes and powers. In my Amber-verse none of the PCs are anywhere near as old or experienced as the Elders, so anything new the PCs come up with falls under the classification of "been-there, done-that" for an Elder. Especially for Elders like Fiona, Brand and Caine in the Psyche-based department. You get the idea.

Elder+ NPCs like Oberon and Dworkin and Suhuy are only subject to manipulation by GROUPS of Elders. Three to one seems like a good ratio for a fifty-fifty chance of success vs. an Oberon level NPC. Nine Elders MIGHT have a chnce if they all focused on anyone above the Oberon-level, but what are the chances of that happening?

Dworkin and others like Suhuy aren't even at the mercy of POWERS like The Unicorn, the Pattern, The Logrus and The Serpent, though they may be in opposition to them and each other. At this level they play with the game, rather than with the players (Elders) or the pieces (PCs).

As an aside, I give the Elders a bonus to their stats/attributes based upon the level of their initiation into things like The Pattern, The Logrus, Trump Artisty, Shape Shifting and other Powers, like Advanced and Exalted and Forbidden ANYthing. This gives them a rough and ready advantage that the PCs cannot anticipate even if they've read the books/manuals.

Just a couple thoughts...

[warp9]

I tend to instigate a max/min time flow of amber x5. So the courts run at amber x5 for example

Wouldn't that x5 limit make Merlin's growing to adult hood in such a short span of time somewhat problematic?

[jibbajibba]

Wouldn't that x5 limit make Merlin's growing to adult hood in such a short span of time somewhat problematic?

Yes but Merlin isn't in my games

I just find in actual play the game is far easier to run if you state simple rules like this. Otherwise you get the... I head out to a really fast shadow with x100 Amber speed and I conjure an army of 1 million flying fire-breathing angels who can travel through shadow and who's abilities will work in amber then I conjure a general with Combat tactics at 64 points to lead them etc etc

Now in my games no one will do that but they could.

By laying down some simply rules up front around timeflow and casting etc the desire to do the obvious tricks diminishes and people have to think of other cleverer ways of earning an advantage.

[Taewakan]

Yes but Merlin isn't in my games

I just find in actual play the game is far easier to run if you state simple rules like this. Otherwise you get the... I head out to a really fast shadow with x100 Amber speed and I conjure an army of 1 million flying fire-breathing angels who can travel through shadow and who's abilities will work in amber then I conjure a general with Combat tactics at 64 points to lead them etc etc

Now in my games no one will do that but they could.

By laying down some simply rules up front around timeflow and casting etc the desire to do the obvious tricks diminishes and people have to think of other cleverer ways of earning an advantage.

And the other Elders haven't already thought of this and come up with a counter why?
The simple answer goes back to the degredation of non-Amber effects when they get close to Amber, let alone arrive IN Amber. Allowing a PC to try something like this is one way for them to earn HUGE bad stuff (in relation to the Elders and any other amber Allies) while being nothing more than a diversion for more serious enemies of Amber.
Or, a good talking-to from an elder explaining the way of the world/Amber to the PC. The conversation might go something like this: "Silly boy, Tricks are for kids."

I am seeing a lot of wishful thinking for game mechancs that will limit the PCs when creative DMing is all that is called for. Who said that the points are all powerful? I mean, who says you can't use an Amber trooper as a base normal for your conjuration? Or one of Julian's monsters from forest Arden?
(Hint: It is you, the DM, GM or ST.)
For some of us EW wasn't the be-all end-all of system creation, but his base idea is GREAT. Diceless? OMFingG! Genius.
But now we stand on his shoulders and go beyond the great and powerful EW.
Right? I mean, look at RPGPundit. Kudos in the extreme man.

[warp9]

Yes but Merlin isn't in my games

Fair enough.

I just find in actual play the game is far easier to run if you state simple rules like this. Otherwise you get the... I head out to a really fast shadow with x100 Amber speed and I conjure an army of 1 million flying fire-breathing angels who can travel through shadow and who's abilities will work in amber then I conjure a general with Combat tactics at 64 points to lead them etc etc

Now in my games no one will do that but they could.

By laying down some simply rules up front around timeflow and casting etc the desire to do the obvious tricks diminishes and people have to think of other cleverer ways of earning an advantage.

I agree that there is a potential issue along the lines of what you describe. However, I'm not sure that your ruling really fixes that underlying problem.

[RPGPundit]

Wouldn't that x5 limit make Merlin's growing to adult hood in such a short span of time somewhat problematic?

I would instead suggest that any shadows that are radically distorted in time span will be places that also have very strange physical laws, meaning that they're very difficult to survive in without Shapeshifting. And in following with that spectrum between order and chaos, these places would also all be much closer to the Courts than to Amber, meaning that they would be likely to have very weird and dangerous creatures, and to be likely to be claimed by some Chaos lord or another, and risk getting into some sticky political situations.