So I Don't Think I Get Amber

[Nihilistic Mind]

One of my players had a violin with Danger Sense, and it would play a nice little theme it cooked up, and I would describe the general feel for the song. The longer the player waited for clues within the song, the more detailed it would get, but the closer the danger would be... Fun stuff.


Anyway, as for 'getting' Amber, here's the bottom line. The game is meant to emulate situations we find in the novels. For someone unfamiliar with the novels, it creates difficulties. Read Nine Princes in Amber (that's all you need to get started and it's damn short).
If you don't like it, don't play the game. If you do, you'll probably read the rest and want to play/run a game.

I've also never come across a game system where GMs put their own spin on the rules. It's a GM toolkit meant to be largely ignored by players so that they may immerse in the character they have built.


And I don't mean to speak badly of the GM that told you 'no' at character creation, but there are ways to handle concepts that are different from their expectations.
It reminded me of a campaign in which one of the players put 64 points in this wolf companion he had (out of 100!). The wolf became a central theme of the campaign for quite some time, during which the characters merged it with a construct, saw it evolve, and eventually embody wolf symbology throughout Shadow. After it was destroyed, wolves have largely disappeared from Shadow (much like they did on our dear Shadow Earth), and stopped being a threat.

[RPGPundit]

One of my players had a violin with Danger Sense, and it would play a nice little theme it cooked up, and I would describe the general feel for the song. The longer the player waited for clues within the song, the more detailed it would get, but the closer the danger would be... Fun stuff.


Anyway, as for 'getting' Amber, here's the bottom line. The game is meant to emulate situations we find in the novels. For someone unfamiliar with the novels, it creates difficulties. Read Nine Princes in Amber (that's all you need to get started and it's damn short).
If you don't like it, don't play the game. If you do, you'll probably read the rest and want to play/run a game.

I've also never come across a game system where GMs put their own spin on the rules. It's a GM toolkit meant to be largely ignored by players so that they may immerse in the character they have built.


And I don't mean to speak badly of the GM that told you 'no' at character creation, but there are ways to handle concepts that are different from their expectations.
It reminded me of a campaign in which one of the players put 64 points in this wolf companion he had (out of 100!). The wolf became a central theme of the campaign for quite some time, during which the characters merged it with a construct, saw it evolve, and eventually embody wolf symbology throughout Shadow. After it was destroyed, wolves have largely disappeared from Shadow (much like they did on our dear Shadow Earth), and stopped being a threat.

Brilliant. And you've just reminded me of something.

RPGPundit

[Croaker]

It reminded me of a campaign in which one of the players put 64 points in this wolf companion he had (out of 100!). The wolf became a central theme of the campaign for quite some time, during which the characters merged it with a construct, saw it evolve, and eventually embody wolf symbology throughout Shadow. After it was destroyed, wolves have largely disappeared from Shadow (much like they did on our dear Shadow Earth), and stopped being a threat.

That's fuckin' great!!!

[Nihilistic Mind]

Thanks

[Trevelyan]

Here's a quote found early in the book:

"Develop your dream character: the one you have always wanted to play – the one you have always wanted to be."

Okay, sounds good. Yet when we get to some of the character creation examples, that has gone out the window:

"Willy: Yeah. Like I'll have these six cats, and they'll each be
eight point items, and then...
GM: NO!"

...and Willy ends up not actually making the character he set out to

IIRC, that "NO!" is in response to the player, Willy, trying to abuse the item creation system by creating six different cats, each worth 8 points but paying only 16 points through a misreading of the "named and numbered" multiplier. The GM goes on to explain how to create the cats that Willy wants within the system, but Willy ultimately decides to go for the Lynx himself.

As for the the sort of trick I was looking for, I just wanted more about Good/Bad Stuff past "They are Good/Bad". Or perhaps an expansion of the bidding concept (which I found clever) into the game at large.

The real trick is hidden within the examples, but it's not spelled out as clearly as it might ahve been. The secret to it all is a combination of no immediately fatal decisions (unless the play sets out to be stupid) and plenty of feedback on which to base future choices.

The combat examples show this best, with players asking the GM what their options are, and how they think different actions might turn out before attempting them so that they can make relatively informed choices. And the GM has a responsibility to provide information to the players when it might influence their actions. This is most obvious in fights where the PCs are outmatched, and the GM fees them the necessary information as they go without immediately ganking them.

[RPGPundit]

To be honest, I've rarely had the kind of problems described in character creation in the book, with players wanting toxic or outrageous character builds.  Usually, if you explain beforehand just how the points system works, just how gimped human ranks are, the relative uses and weaknesses of things like sorcery or magic items, players will make pretty reasonable characters as a result.

RPGPundit

[Kevin]

I'd say the best way to "get" Amber is to find an existing game and sit in a while. Pique at the flavor text is not going to reflect in your game unless you really want it to. I never found the examples to be onerous, but even if they were terribly unfair and mean-spirited, that doesn't mean you have to run your game that way. The system really is a bunch of fun, but I will be the first to admit that sitting down to a table full of folks with no experience with either the game or the world would be a hard row to hoe.

[darciesdaddy]

"GM: A fist-sized object comes flying into the room, shattering
the window and splashing right into the big soup bowl.
What are you doing?
Willy: Greymer is here with me, didn't I have any warning?
GM: Your lynx, Greymer, looks startled and his fur is standing
straight up on end. What are you doing?
Willy: Greymer is supposed to be psychically sensitive to
danger. Why wasn't I warned?
GM: Greymer takes off for the door, so fast you'd think his tail
was on fire. What are you doing?
Willy: I don't get it. Greymer should tell me about this stuff.
Why didn't I expect this? Is this fair?
GM: Are you asking me?
Willy: Yeah, I'm asking you.
GM: What's the question?
Willy: Why didn't Greymer warn me of this attack?
GM: Are you asking as Willy, or as Garvin?
Willy: What's the difference? Just answer the question.
GM: If you are asking as Willy, I was going to suggest that we
get to it some other time, after the session. As to Garvin,
how is Garvin going to find out the answer?"

QUOTE]

Ok, the whole point fo this exchange is to show a character paying more attention to the rules than to what is going on around him. The player is obviously expecting the GM to tell him "Your lynx senses danger." The GM, on the other hand, has, through Greymer's actions, sent a very clear message that the lynx senses trouble. Instead of reacting to what is going on in front of him, the player arguing about the rules with the GM, instead of following the lynx out the door.

[Rel Fexive]

That's what I would say too.  'Willy' definitely wasn't paying attention!

[RPGPundit]

Yup, and note that the quote comes from the "dealing with problems" area under "Rules Lawyers".

RPGPundit

[Croaker]

Ok, so I understood the thing correctly above

[moritheil]

Willy: Greymer is supposed to be psychically sensitive to
danger. Why wasn't I warned?
GM: Greymer takes off for the door, so fast you'd think his tail
was on fire. What are you doing?
Willy: I don't get it. Greymer should tell me about this stuff.
Why didn't I expect this? Is this fair?

I fail to see how wanting to know why abilities the player paid good points for are not working on the GM's whim can be called "rules lawyering"; in fact, given the rules-light nature of the game, I fail to see how significant rules lawyering can even exist.

It's not the GM's whim, exactly; it's that pretty much nothing is absolute.  For a canonical example, Brand is a living trump and should have pretty much unlimited freedom of movement, as he is able to teleport himself to pretty much any place he can think of, but two other elders can imprison him in an exotic shadow.  Merlin can create Trumps, walk in shadow, and use magic to teleport, but Luke's crystal cave shuts him off from all these methods of escape.

In your example above, perhaps there is something that nullified either Greymer's psychic forewarning, or his ability to pass a warning on.  The GM does not want to explain it to the player because the GM WANTS the player to be confused (and thus in-character.)  This isn't the friendliest of decisions, but it's understandable.

I don't see much difference between the distrust for the GM above and a D&D player demanding to know why his permanent arcane sight spell didn't pick up X, when the whole reason he paid good money to have it cast was to avoid situations like this, etc. etc.  A certain level of trust is needed, but not present.

[moritheil]

I suppose I shall try to read the Amber novels if I have the time. Thanks for the responses; I can see the matter more clearly now.
However, what I see is that I don't care for this game. It seems oddly restrictive in terms of character creation for such a rules-light game (for context, one of my favorite games is GURPS, despite the complexity) and quite frankly, a bit of argument over whether or not something should have happened on the occasion is part of the fun for me, because it makes the game world seem more real and less like just a narrative device. That said, if you enjoy it, play it and have fun, because that's the point.

I think this is because you haven't read the novels.  The ENTIRE WORLD is a narrative device, to be rearranged at whim.  There is no "solid game world" with detailed rules because the world isn't solid: it's just shadows.  Amber and the Courts are the only real places; everything else is essentially a lucid dream.  Every player has the power to change the rules of the world around them.

Bottom line, AMBER only makes sense if you read and understood the Amber novels.  It's not to be taken out of the context of the novels.

[SunBoy]

Bottom line, AMBER only makes sense if you read and understood the Amber novels.  It's not to be taken out of the context of the novels.

I beg to differ. While I do consider myself fairly sharp, I played Amber for the first time in a club, without reading the novels first, and with about a 15' explanation of what it was all about, and I got it without major problems. So did the other four or five guys, actually. Not only we got the setting and the system right away, we had a blast. Actually, nothing stops you from playing 300 years before or after Patternfall War, and the handbook is so good you can do that and even portrait all the major NPCs without a problem. In the campaign I'm playing right now, I think I'm the only player who's read the chronicles, and no one seems to be having any difficulties.

EDIT: Oh, and yeah, the GM totally forgot about the cat there, then tried to fix it quickly, the arsehole wasn't buying, so the GM told him to shut up. I found it great.

[gabriel_ss4u]

Yes, I agree that it is a system that plays along with... playing along. The GM is not there to kill the players, though I have played in some game systems where it did seem like that was in fact the goal.  If you as a player have a disagreement with something, (especially your item), it would behoove you to take some time out of game to explain the inner workings and such of your item. That way the GM will understand better how it fits into your story & character.
I played the 1st time without reading the novels, but the 2nd time, I had the 1st 5 read. It truly is essential to understand the "feel" of Amber by reading them.