A silly attribute auction question

[Croaker]

Yes, I do believe it's fair that someone could beat Fiona in Strength or Benedict in Psyche.

I do, too

[jibbajibba]

If the bids on warfare are 1, 5, 70 and you want to play a mid-ranked warfare guy, you just gotta spend 5 points. And you're second.
Other players may want to do this, too, but, then, there's an universe out there.

Anyway, if this bothers you, an easy way to limit this is to forbid players bidding higher than, say, 20 points at a time.

But if a guy spends 70 points in warfare to make sure HE is the best and will stay it... he should benefit from it, shouldn't he? At least, until someone else invest enough effort to best him. But this means warfare is everything for him.
Anyway, he'll probably be easily bested by all those 2-ranked warfare guys who, aside from being also higher in strength and endurance, have powers and artifacts...

Well no if I spend 5 points I will be 2.5 and worse than the guy playing the wizard who just happened to go second in the attribute auction.
Yes I can buy loads of other stuff but that means I don't up playing the character I wanted to play and surely playing the character you want to play is the strength of a points based character generation system.
Again you are right the giy who blew 70 on warfare might well be disadvantaged in play but that isn't my point. We don't roleplay to min max our charcters and be tougher than the other players. We roleplay to have fun and a bit of escapisim and for me that tends to be playing characters I want to play. My point is that the system can throw these things up and so is flawed. An attribute auction is a unique and fantastic way of assigning stats and a system that has open ended scores on attributes powers and the like is a great system but I just don't ranks are a workable tool and they don't even reflect the books they are trying to replicate.

[Croaker]

Yes I can buy loads of other stuff but that means I don't up playing the character I wanted to play and surely playing the character you want to play is the strength of a points based character generation system.

You wanted mid-ranked. You get mid-ranked.

By the way, I'd add that one of the particularities of the auction is that you don't always get what you wanted, and must be ready to seize on opportunities.

And if the big lump of points really annoys you, you can easily rule against that, while keeping the ranks.

[Trevelyan]

As for the point that a single bid locks out a stat being a + for the ranking system this is not true. Yes a rank is just a rank and a 3 point gap and a 45 point gap shoud be equivalent but in the ranking system a high bid that locks out an attribute has the effect of making all other players the same rank.

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Imagine D&D if when you were making your character  the DM told you you couldn't assign that 14 you rolled to Dexterity because some other guy already rolled a 17 and so all the other players had to have 11 .

This is all true, but applies equally whether you use points or ranks, the only difference being that the margin of difference is significantly reduced when you apply ranks.

In a point based game, the guy who jumps in with a 70 bid not only freezes out the competition, but also makes the difference between himself and the next best guy absolutely vast. At least with ranks you need only worry about the cost to improve.

[jibbajibba]

This is all true, but applies equally whether you use points or ranks, the only difference being that the margin of difference is significantly reduced when you apply ranks.

In a point based game, the guy who jumps in with a 70 bid not only freezes out the competition, but also makes the difference between himself and the next best guy absolutely vast. At least with ranks you need only worry about the cost to improve.

but in a points system I would do away with the rules about how much you can spend (see my anted auction varient above) after the auction finishes and with xp you can just pour points in there with out needing to go in steps

[Trevelyan]

but in a points system I would do away with the rules about how much you can spend (see my anted auction varient above) after the auction finishes and with xp you can just pour points in there with out needing to go in steps

What is there to stop you applying the same rules in a rank system? Once you introduce house rules then they can apply to either attribute system, with point limits applied to rank bids, and additional ex determining current points on which the rank is based (but with no change in ability until you gain a new rank).

Both systems can be improved, but ranks are more robust out of the box.

[jibbajibba]

What is there to stop you applying the same rules in a rank system? Once you introduce house rules then they can apply to either attribute system, with point limits applied to rank bids, and additional ex determining current points on which the rank is based (but with no change in ability until you gain a new rank).

Both systems can be improved, but ranks are more robust out of the box.

Well in a point system the nearness of the players is determined by the gp in points. So a 70 point gap in psyche means I can dominate your puny mind whilst doing the rubic's cube and trying to balance my cheque book but a gap of 5 means that to dominate you I can do nothing else and the veins on my temples are standing out and all that. A rank in psyche is just the latter I suspect.
Also as I get experience I can reduce the gap between us and maybe give myself an edge.

If you have read the 'Lies of Lock Lamora' (and I heartily recommend it) you will be familar with the concept of 'I don't have to beat you I just need to keep you here long enough for him to arrive' .

It also helps resolve some of those multiple assaults versus the single player issues.

[Trevelyan]

If you have read the 'Lies of Lock Lamora' (and I heartily recommend it) you will be familar with the concept of 'I don't have to beat you I just need to keep you here long enough for him to arrive' .

by strange coincidence, I finished reading it at the weekend and greatly enjoyed it! Has the sequel been published yet?

[jibbajibba]

by strange coincidence, I finished reading it at the weekend and greatly enjoyed it! Has the sequel been published yet?

Book 2 "Red Seas under Red Skies" has been out for a while and whilst not quite as good its well worth the read and has some great moments. The author is a big games player as you can tell from the books.

[Trevelyan]

The author is a big games player as you can tell from the books.

I got that impression.