Resolving "abuse" of sorcery

[boulet]

But beyond that, there's another issue at play here, which has to do with who YOUR character is. I'm not going to tell you how you should play Morgan, but I could tell you this, if I was the 1st ranked dude in warfare, I would take sorcery, sure, but mainly to figure out ways to DISABLE magic; in fact, I'd be disabling magic at every opportunity. The whole winning strategy for a guy like this isn't do make "flying" spells, its to disarm his opponents of their best weapon and then beat the shit out of them with his superior warfare.

It makes a lot of sense. If I was Bleys had a feud with Fiona (it could happen couldn't it?) that's the first tactic that would pop in my mind : neutralize her edge and play my ace, warfare in both Bleys' case and Morgan's. Now Fiona being a smart girl, Bleys would never assume she hasn't got any other trick hidden up her sleeves. And the chess comparison kicks in again. You got to anticipate the next two or three moves if you want to be prepared. Even if this Maximo guy has been behaving like a one trick pony so far... Another protective measure against the magic large zone attacks could be to carry a mac guffin he's really interested into. Maybe he might think about the benefits of surgical strikes...

[Narf the Mouse]

No reason you can't ambush him, either. I haven't even read all of the books, but one possibility would be getting an 'ally' of some sort to Trump the guy, then ambush him while he's distracted.

Would take some set-up, but in close quarters, I imagine Warfare is going to beat sorcery.

[Croaker]

Even if you escape by shifting shadow, you have crippling lava damage on 100% of your body (I also hope you didn't open your mouth while inside the lava cube). The lava caster only needs to shift shadow with Pattern to finish the job.

Casting a spell is not instantaneous.

If you shift shadows, even just a little, before the casting is completed, you've effectively "dodged" the spell.
There's even a (non-official) power word out there that does this for you.

Also, I don't know about pundit's game, but, in my games, the more powerfull a spell is in its different parameters, the more psyche and time it requires, first for complexity. Then, you gotta have the magical energy to create it, which runs out of your endurance, further limiting you. You can bypass this by using power sources, but if you try to use more energy than you can control at a time, you get fried.
Still in my game? A cross-shadow spell would be possible, but, aside from requiring Pattern Sorcery, would be too difficult and costing to cast. I think pundit will work along similar ways.

Also, there's the question of this cube: Admitting it is at all possible, how far is the caster to not get burned himself???

Anyway, you have sorcery? As I said before, just use the basic magic drain spell from the rulebook. It should be faster to cast than his lava spell, and render it completely useless. And then, it's warfare time!

[outtouch]

You're playing a game of chess here; Maximo has a Knight, and you've got a Knight and a Queen.  Don't be afraid to sacrifice your knight for his, leaving you with the Queen and him with fuck all.

RPGPundit

There is also the issue than, al least in my view, the sorcery system in this campaign work in such way that it gets stronger the more you know of your enemy.

In the battle between Morgan and Maximo, the latter knew who he was fighting and planned accordingly, having just tested the system last season that is an advantage somtimes overlooked.

The way i see it, sorcery is an exelent tool that gets better the more you know about what you are facing and the more time you have, generic spells are good but specific spells can be devastating.
That said it's still just a tool, like a sword or a trump, it can be more or less powerful itself, but what matters is how you use it.

And in a fight bewen Morgan and Maximo i could bet on Morgan everytime, Maximo is the kind of guy that thinks that a hammer is the best tool for everyting (even cleaning windows)

[jibbajibba]

This Morgan Massimo thing doesn't appear very Ambery to me.... I will assume they are basically cousins and for some reason want to kill each other.
Why would either of them want to get involved in a face to face ... that is so gauche. If Maximo the sorcerer wants to kill Morgan why would he want to get close enough to hit him with a spell why not ensorcel Morgans trusted ally to slit hsi throat while he sleeps. Why not do any one of 101 things to eliminate Morgan whilst he has no idea it is you. I played an evil sorcerous bastard for ages I would never openly attack any one. A subtle clue there to lead them into an inescapable trap whilst befriending them with gifts of magical armour and enchanted weapons, under my control of course. Just learn high compelling and add it to an artifact with confer power and ... i mean ... casting spells ... directly at people ... what is this 1982?

[Tamelorn]

Now, I gave a number of responses to the player who complained about this to me, but I'd like to hear how you would handle the thing if you were GMs.

RPGPundit

Well, personally, I think the 'not being able to dodge' thing misses how wonderfully well Warfare is as the Most Important Stat.  The concept that someone with high-rank Warfare is limited by little things like space and time or practical physics isn't the issue - They probably started dodging well before the person with Sorcery conceived the notion to begin to get around to unleashing said huge volume of lava with magic.

What, are we in ROUNDS or something?  Sheesh.

(grins and chortles)

[gabriel_ss4u]

ziiing!
yes, spot on!
retroactive decisions are awesome.

talking to a player before hand and letting them have a teacher or mentor or something in gameplay, that shows defenses for the crazy type of attacks they may come under, will also give the defending player some 'warfare' bonus once battle comes around.
Every master warfare person needs an information network.

[RPGPundit]

Say... does this 'about to be melted to a crisp' character have a devotee? Someone that, within the game may cause them to be rescued from this 'almost inescapable' threat?

I can't say, because its an ongoing campaign.

RPGPundit

[RPGPundit]

This Morgan Massimo thing doesn't appear very Ambery to me.... I will assume they are basically cousins and for some reason want to kill each other.
Why would either of them want to get involved in a face to face ... that is so gauche. If Maximo the sorcerer wants to kill Morgan why would he want to get close enough to hit him with a spell why not ensorcel Morgans trusted ally to slit hsi throat while he sleeps. Why not do any one of 101 things to eliminate Morgan whilst he has no idea it is you. I played an evil sorcerous bastard for ages I would never openly attack any one. A subtle clue there to lead them into an inescapable trap whilst befriending them with gifts of magical armour and enchanted weapons, under my control of course. Just learn high compelling and add it to an artifact with confer power and ... i mean ... casting spells ... directly at people ... what is this 1982?

Well, I think there are two issues:

1. I don't think Maximo really wants Morgan dead yet. Morgan has kicked Maximo's ass two (or is it three?) times thus far, and has spared him every time when he could have killed him, so Morgan doesn't want Maximo dead either. They just have a growing enmity at this point.

2. Maximo is, to be generous, not that bright. He uses any power he has as a blunt weapon, subtlety is not in his nature. At least not for this sort of thing.  

RPGPundit

[JongWK]

Just to be clear, Maximo himself isn't my main worry. It's the possibility of an out-of-control Sorcery system.

[SunBoy]

I do think it is stated, in the ADRPG book, that Pattern and Logrus always trump (no pun intended) Sorcery... personally, in the campaign we're talking about I've managed to make this work, but only on counted occasions. I think that should be more clear, but of course, maybe it is a question of the characters not knowing the full extent of their powers yet or what have you. If this were easier to accomplish, I think it would render Sorcery fairly useless against a character with real power, at least in a direct "fireball" or "hold person" scenario... thus making it only a very useful tool, which is what it was, in my opinion, intended to be.

[RPGPundit]

I think you got it, Sun Boy, it depends on knowing how to use these powers against sorcery. Sorcery's advantage is that it can be either sneaky or more directly offensive. But if you know how to use either power to counter the power of sorcery, pattern and logrus will win, always.

RPGPundit

[SunBoy]

What can I say? I'm smart like that

[Tamelorn]

What can I say? I'm smart like that

Heh, and flaming, apparently!  Cute icon.  Fwoomph!

[SunBoy]

Thanks. I'm always drawing that sort of OotS doodles. They're really cool.