Quizical things from Zelazny's Amber.

[gabriel_ss4u]

I was browsing through my Chronicles of Amber and came across a few exerts that made me say WTF?
Even after reading many times, some of the phrases I see still hit me as if it's the first time... and others just make me wonder.

I wanted to put some of them forth here, and am hoping some discussion of some of these phrases may ensue.

NPIA

1) (chapter 6); Caine; "I'll be satisfied to serve the winner. That regency should be nice. I'd still like Random's head as part of the price, though"
Why do you suppose he hates Random so??? thoughts?

2) Corwin: "Of Shadow I have this to say;there is Shadow and there is Substance, and this is the root of all things. Of Substance, there is only Amber, the real city, upon the real Earth, which contains everything."
Which contains everything...

3) Corwin, before pulling out Bleys' Trump; "I dried my hands on my cloak as I spoke and wiped them carefully, as I'd hate to smudge a work of art."
wiping blood from the battle I believe... sounds as if this may affect trump somehow? or just poetic verbage?

4) As Corwin threw his trump to Bleys, as Bleys fell, who's Trump do you suppose he used?

5) Corwin, after escaping the dungeon: "Troubled by dreams of werewolves and Sabbats, I slept, and the full moon rose above the world."
Did Eric have anything to do with his nightmare, being he controls the weir?

6) Corwin; "I had set sail for a land near as sparkling as Amber itself, an almost immortal place, a place that did not really exist, not any longer.It was a place that vanishes into Chaos ages ago."
Did Chaos itself take over Avalon??


Well, these things are just things that stuck out in my mind. What say you?

[jibbajibba]

Well I will take a stab. No books to hand so this is all off hte top of my head.

1) (chapter 6); Caine; "I'll be satisfied to serve the winner. That regency should be nice. I'd still like Random's head as part of the price, though"
Why do you suppose he hates Random so??? thoughts?

Remember the referece to Random sticking a dagger in someone boot as a practical joke. I think Random was somethign of a wanker when he was younger so ...

2) Corwin: "Of Shadow I have this to say;there is Shadow and there is Substance, and this is the root of all things. Of Substance, there is only Amber, the real city, upon the real Earth, which contains everything."
Which contains everything...
of course at this point there was no Courts of Chaos but the idea is that anything that exists in shadow is just a reflection of something in Amber. However, that reflection might be so distorted as to be unrecognisable. INteresting is hte use of the phrase 'the real Earth' indicating that maybe at this point in Zelazny's thinking Amber was more than just a small fragment of reality bounded by shadow. Not sure if that is true towords the end of the second set of books.


3) Corwin, before pulling out Bleys' Trump; "I dried my hands on my cloak as I spoke and wiped them carefully, as I'd hate to smudge a work of art."
wiping blood from the battle I believe... sounds as if this may affect trump somehow? or just poetic verbage?
Poetic Verbage :-)

4) As Corwin threw his trump to Bleys, as Bleys fell, who's Trump do you suppose he used?
None Fiona was in trump contact with Bleys the whole while and pulled him out once he was in trouble. Corwin just threw away his own trumps and his chance to escape before he reached the top of the stair.

5) Corwin, after escaping the dungeon: "Troubled by dreams of werewolves and Sabbats, I slept, and the full moon rose above the world."
Did Eric have anything to do with his nightmare, being he controls the weir?
I think these nighmares merely reflected Corwin's arrival back in Amber after his amnesia. His first arrival back in Amber and the point at which he could have turned away fromt eh course of action that led to his demise. And of course Poetic Verbage again.

6) Corwin; "I had set sail for a land near as sparkling as Amber itself, an almost immortal place, a place that did not really exist, not any longer.It was a place that vanishes into Chaos ages ago."
Did Chaos itself take over Avalon??
No, I think this is a reference to the idea that Amberites carve out niches of reality 'creating' worlds as they go. The idea being that without Corwin to hold it together Avalon just slips back into the general Mulch of Shadow Chaos.

[gabriel_ss4u]

interesting Jibbajibba;
the thought of Fiona pulling Bleys to safety is a good one.

I still think there is something to the werewolf dreams more than talk.
And I don't agree with Avalon 'fading away', I lean more to Chaos having something to do with it's demise. (I'll have to look it up more later)

On #1 & 2, I agree with you, Random was picked on by his siblings for being a wanker, (I just like to hear some ideas on why, or if anyone knows fer sure), and your description on #2 is along my thoughts, but I like your ending... I wonder if RZ did think the same at the end.

#3 I think is poetic verbage, but it does make one wonder.

[Croaker]

Well, a bloodied trump, just as any work of art, is spoiled.

Game-wise, this might make contact more difficult, because you see only a bit of the picture.
Of course, you might also decide that Blood of Amber can unsettle Trump operation.

I'd tend towards 1) and 2) (if it was more than a few drops)

[Corambis]

6) Corwin; "I had set sail for a land near as sparkling as Amber itself, an almost immortal place, a place that did not really exist, not any longer.It was a place that vanishes into Chaos ages ago."
Did Chaos itself take over Avalon??
No, I think this is a reference to the idea that Amberites carve out niches of reality 'creating' worlds as they go. The idea being that without Corwin to hold it together Avalon just slips back into the general Mulch of Shadow Chaos.

Perhaps when Corwin lost his memories, the Shadows he had created purposely in the past disappeared as well?

[gabriel_ss4u]

I don't see it... otherwise, if an Amberite dies... their shadows fail?
I can see it having some effect on the shadow.. but to slip into Chaos?
That's a strong statement.
I feel it fell to Chaotic forces.

[Corambis]

I don't see it... otherwise, if an Amberite dies... their shadows fail?
I can see it having some effect on the shadow.. but to slip into Chaos?
That's a strong statement.
I feel it fell to Chaotic forces.

Do you mean the armies of Chaos, or just Chaos in general?  I don't think there is any hint of Chaos as a military threat at this point, but I could be wrong.  On the other hand, I don't think we have any evidence of Shadows just disappearing on their own either.  Or perhaps without his continued presence there for an extended time, it just full back into being a mundane shadow.

[weilide]

Either a massive shadow storm or Chaosian-summoned primal chaos would be options as well.

[Nihilistic Mind]

In the game I'm running, Avalon (the original Avalon) was very deliberately destroyed... Three guesses who.

[gabriel_ss4u]

ooo, ummm....
lemme see.
Eric!
ummm.... Mandor!
or perhaps, Brand?
Well, this is how many good scenarios start... isn't it?

[SunBoy]

Me money's on Dara. Yup.

[boulet]

It's Oberon

It's always him

[Lady Vivamus]

I'm going to go with Llewella, just because it's kind of out of left field and I like doing things that way. ^_^

[gabriel_ss4u]

or even a cabal, that's why he gave us 3 guesses.
Oberon?
Dara?
Mandor?


Scaaaaaaaaaary!

[SunBoy]

Go on, NM!!! We're curious!!!