Pattern Swords

[Seanchai]

That and catching Chaosian blood on fire. Chaos creatures are allergic to Pattern, so as far as we know that's all they do.

Cool. I do remember that from the old books now that you mention it.

What about spikards? Did they have something to do with the Keep? What can they do?

Seanchai

[Nihilistic Mind]

The second series with Merlin strongly suggests that chaos blood is naturally prone to flaming whether cut with a pattern blade or otherwise. It's possible that this effect is dependant on a degree of agitation, which Greyswandir might provide, but chaos blood can flame quite happily if you cut a chaosite with a blunt pen knife.

Wait, Merlin Series is canon? XD

Nah, I'm totally kidding. Honestly, I don't know why I thought it was a Grayswandir effect rather than a Chaos Blood effect... Perhaps because the ADRP has Pattern Swords as high damage weapons (against Chaos creatures), but still, the novels should be the prime thing to look at when analyzing things as canon...

It's possible the Pattern Sword make the Chaos Blood easier to flare, forcing to spew out of the victim...

And by the way, has anyone thought of an equivalent to a Pattern Sword for Chaos. Logrus Swords also based upon spikards, perhaps?

[Croaker]

Well, we've got the logrus items created when asseying the logrus. Frakir, mandor's spheres... An interesting is that, according to the novels, such items should be fairly common amongst chaos lords, as it is the custom to bear an item while traversing the logrus, so that it gets enchanted by its powers.

[Nihilistic Mind]

Well, we've got the logrus items created when asseying the logrus. Frakir, mandor's spheres... An interesting is that, according to the novels, such items should be fairly common amongst chaos lords, as it is the custom to bear an item while traversing the logrus, so that it gets enchanted by its powers.

True, although not spikard based or truly Logrus bearing the way the Pattern Swords are designed.

Again, unrelated and I apologize for it, but what do you think would happen to Frakir if Merlin dies? Or Mandor's orbs if HE dies?
Is there a big list of inherited items passing through generations of chaosians? If so, by now there would be a huge amount of such items passing hands through 'chaos-powered antiquities collectors' (now THAT's a campaign idea for ya!)...
Or, they could be shoved into the abyss with the corpse of the owner when they die...

[Croaker]

IMO, they just go on. They're logrus-empowered, not user-empowered.

And I like the idea of the (Unspeakable) Vault of Doom.

Nonetheless, as such items are attuned to their possessor, they may be useless for someone else: Mandor's spheres may retain their abilities, but be unable to be used by someone (unless he takes a lot of time to attune himself to it?). Or, frakir-like, they may have no emotionnal ties/compulsion to obey and serve someone, but may choose to do so.

[Trevelyan]

IMO, they just go on. They're logrus-empowered, not user-empowered.

And I like the idea of the (Unspeakable) Vault of Doom.

Nonetheless, as such items are attuned to their possessor, they may be useless for someone else: Mandor's spheres may retain their abilities, but be unable to be used by someone (unless he takes a lot of time to attune himself to it?). Or, frakir-like, they may have no emotionnal ties/compulsion to obey and serve someone, but may choose to do so.

I've played around with this idea myself.

There are really several different types of items empowered by the Logrus. Mandor seems to use his balls to assist with spontaneous spell casting and to perform a variety of other direct functions (demolition, for example). Mandor's balls are consistent with Suhuy's comment to Merlin in the prologue to Trumps of Doom about creating a "brace" for his magic. In contrast, Merlin never uses Frakir to cast a spell, and Frakir itself appears far more sentient and independant than Mandor's balls (Frakir is even the narrator of oneof the short stories.

Frakir seems to be able to act quite happily without Merlin, although given that much of Frakir's individuality seems to have been the result of additional enhancement by the power that be, the cord might be an exception to the general rule. Most Logrus imbued items are probably heavily dependant on their creators, though, and I would imagine that they would either fall dormant shortly after their creator's death, or else be so highly individual that they would be of little use to anyone else.

The idea that I enjoyed was that someone walking the Logrus never knows exactly what powers a fresh item might develop. Presumably the powers are somehow inspired by the personality of the individual, but that's far frmo a safe thing. In contrast, certain dormant items might have obvious or well recorded powers which could be reawakened and attuned to a new wielder by taking them through the Logrus.

I envisaged a number of hereditary swords and similar items which had been taken through the Logrus by so many successive generations that they had significantly increased in power and picked up any number of additional abilities. Some such items might be the property of the crown (perhaps a new king must reattune the crown and scepter of office) or significant noble houses (the sword of Hendrake), while others might be the property of hidden conspiracies (the dagger which has slain fifteen princes of chaos in the hands of fifteen different assassins). Any number of such singular items could be waiting in some long forgotten ways or out in shadow, and they might have the ability to influence the minds of any weak shadow dweller who finds them and starts using them, drawing the wielder back to Chaos, amnipulating the actions of the seemingly harmless shadow creature and seeking in their own twisted ways to further the causes to which they are dedicated.

[Sargon]

The moment you asked why those 3 and only those 3 had pattern blades, the followin answer popped into my head:

Corwin is oberons' favored child ( or so oberon and corwin claim in the books), and brand and bleys are the 2 princes who spent the most time with dworkin.  That makes one wodner if fiona ( the other of dworkin's favorites0 got a apttern sword, or if only sons get swords.   Mabe bleys and brand got pattern swords and fiona got jewelry ( probably spikard jewelry ).

[Shoby187]

Personally, I think that there are only two Pattern swords. Greyswandir and Werewindle. Either Bleys sword isn't a Pattern sword or the sword Corwin saw Bleys with was in fact Werewindle and Bleys had taken it from Brand when he and Fiona had him imprisioned.

We know they used to be Spikards. Werewindle used to be the Spikard Rawg. (Which is the only spikard we have a name for). As a Spikard Werewindle can draw upon nearly unlimited power for an attack. Luke did this in 'Coming to a Cord.' He drew power into Werewindle and Werewindle burned up parts of the demon Luke was fighting every time Luke touched it with Werewindle. Frakir said that Werewindle could probably draw on enough power to destroy a planet.

I've read in a few places (not in the books) that Roger Zelzany stated that the image of the Pattern was placed on those Spikards to protect the Pattern from them. It's my understanding that Dworkin had possession of Rawg and the Spikard that became Greyswandir when he drew the Primal Pattern. He used them to help protect him from the forces of Chaos while he was creating the Primal Pattern. The Pattern uses the power of those two Spikard to make two extra reflections of itself during its creation, these reflections of course are Rebma and Tir-Na Nog'th. This is why Greyswandir has power in Tir and we can assume Werewindle has some power in Rebma. The Pattern turned the two Spikards into swords during this process.

Oberon told Corwin in Hall of Miriors that he would need the power of Greyswandir to protect him from "the odd-ball powers of someone like Jurt." Going off of this comment, in my games, I've always given Greyswandir and Werewindle the power to protect their owners from Sorcery. Which also helps to explain why we don't see as much Sorcery in the Corwin books as in the Merlin books; No one with real power was dumb enough to try using Sorcery on Corwin. Even Brand never tried to directly use Sorcery on Corwin.

We also know that, Werewindle (which probably means Greyswandir as well) has some intelligence. Werewindle actually spoke to Luke in 'A Salesman's Tale.'

Dara also said that the Tools (Spikards) "are stronger than mortal sorcery."

Shoby187

[Nihilistic Mind]

Mabe bleys and brand got pattern swords and fiona got jewelry ( probably spikard jewelry ).

She has that nifty mirror in Merlin's series...

In any case, what Shoby187 says about Bleys' sword being Brand's when it was taken from him makes a lot of sense. Logically, Werewindle would have wanted to return to Brand, but Bleys could have prevented that by keeping it near and preventing its abilities somehow...

Perhaps two Pattern Swords are enough...

[jibbajibba]

Okay this is from the last Amber Campaign I ran and was given to a character with Advanced Pattern that wanted knowledge of Pattern Blades. Worth noting in my Campaigns I never havd the elder Amberites aside from Dworkin and Oberon. Also worth noting that Dworkin is nuts and so rarely speaks in plain language.

It would have been hundreds of years ago now the details of dates do not matter overmuch in any case. Sequence and order, stress and balance they are most important in this matter. Time to an Amberite is a relative phenomena more so than even dear old Albert could have guessed. Dworkin, mentor and patient teacher. Prone to ravings and mood swings? Yes, that was the Barimen way, but in contrast the outpourings of wisdom from Dworkin’s lips could be likened to drops of golden nectar from blossoming summer flowers.

For it was he who had shown you secrets not available to the rest of your kin. You remembered when he was less elusive than he has been of late, just after the creation of the Sanctum; you were in his company much then.
“Young Cornelius, what a question, it was very difficult back then in the beginning I had so many enemies, so many. How did I triumph? I created swords… precocious master, swords, swords of the Pattern. The ‘pattern swords’, you can call them that if you wish. Yes… they still exist. I created them during my initial wanderings, when I explored the fresh shadows of my design, for the pattern was static, defensive and primal. But I needed a vessel with which to carry the fight to the enemy, I needed to offend chaos, I needed the Pattern swords, my venom, my teeth. The fringes of shadow, the edges of oblivion needed championing too. There were eight swords, one for each of the primary pattern shadows. Yes of course you knew that the Pattern in Amber is just one of the images created by the Primal Pattern as it etches it’s uniformity upon the echoing realms of Chaos. First of these is the Pattern known to all Amberites. You refer to it as The Pattern, but in truth it is the Pattern of Knowledge. It is the truest reflection of my clarity of purpose when I carved order from the bottomless void. Of the other seven shadows two are well known. The Patterns of Remba and Tir-na nog’th were impossible to conceal. They are the Patterns of Sorrow and the Pattern of Dreams. You must remember that I could not know the full extent of my actions when I drew out the Primal Pattern I never knew that my own personality would be refracted in the shadows that spilled from it.

“So then I see you are eager to learn of the other patterns and indeed you should for I see that you will be the guardian of the Pattern in time to come and into your trust will Order and Creation be placed. I will name them then; the Pattern of Stone; the Pattern of Truth; the Pattern of Fire; the Pattern of Destiny and the Pattern of Balance. Each exists a shadow’s breath from the Primal Pattern but only a master can manipulate shadow this close to the Source. It is a skill you will learn in time.

 “As I say the pattern was a defensive force static and unmoving and I needed to silence my critics who would smite my work asunder before it had even begun. I forged eight swords and sought to create eight Champions to bear them. The latter I fear was a feat that still eludes me and that I trusted to your father Oberon. The first, from the Pattern of Knowledge was Solace and this is born by Oberon himself. Then came Shallowkiss the Sword of Sorrow born by Arden, then Werewindle the Sword of Fire born by Serge and lost to shadow as he was. Then came Arkmight the Sword of Stone born by Ernaux, then Chrysaor the sword of truth, that is also called Axiom, given to Lysander. The remaining three swords were too valuable to risk and when Serge disappeared into shadow I hid them or disguised their true purpose. Greyswandir the blade of Dreams, Jerubal the Blade of Destiny and Pelagrim the Ash blade the Sword of Balance. One of the purposes of the Sanctum was to identify the eight wardens that would emerge as Champions of Order, but the time has not yet come.’ And he could not be drawn any more. As he turned away, you could not help but ask the question that formed unbidden in your mind... “A ninth sword you say, the Primal Blade…” answered Dworkin, and he just smiled.

Dworkin had lit a bright fire in your belly, you dedicated yourself to the study of the Pattern, and your skill increased measure by measure with your dedication. There was a primal Pattern you knew that now; the source of Amber and order.. Of the other Patterns, the Rebman Pattern, the Pattern of Sorrow, was often closed. Rebma was a ‘sea’ of political intrigue and best avoided, or at least so went the instructions of Oberon. There was the Pattern of Dreams, but Tir Na Nog’th was vague and intranssient. You soon despaired of its contrariness and confined your study to The Great Pattern, located in the dungeons of Amber. And you learnt much.

But the way was not easy, so often when it seemed you were on the verge of a breakthrough, Oberon would summon you for some task or other. But there was one other occasion of revelation still to come; a time when you managed to corner Dworkin again. It occurred soon after the self imposed exile of Prospero, who had tended to monopolise Dworkin’s time with his paintings and sculptures.

You talked once more of swords and their making,
“He who would forge Pattern swords, must find a Pattern susceptible to his level of power, the primal pattern is beyond even I but to each according to his ability”, Dworkin hinted. You were about to press him further but he was following a train of thought and from experience you knew it was best not to interrupt such moments of plain lucidity. “The swords are forged in the centre of the power, the centre of Order, cut from the pattern with the instrument of their design and tempered with the blood of the chosen. The process is arduous and draining, but in matters to thwart the Serpent, this is often the way of the world…” and with that he would speak no more on the matter.

[weilide]

I've read in a few places (not in the books) that Roger Zelzany stated that the image of the Pattern was placed on those Spikards to protect the Pattern from them. It's my understanding that Dworkin had possession of Rawg and the Spikard that became Greyswandir when he drew the Primal Pattern. He used them to help protect him from the forces of Chaos while he was creating the Primal Pattern. The Pattern uses the power of those two Spikard to make two extra reflections of itself during its creation, these reflections of course are Rebma and Tir-Na Nog'th. This is why Greyswandir has power in Tir and we can assume Werewindle has some power in Rebma. The Pattern turned the two Spikards into swords during this process.

Oberon told Corwin in Hall of Miriors that he would need the power of Greyswandir to protect him from "the odd-ball powers of someone like Jurt." Going off of this comment, in my games, I've always given Greyswandir and Werewindle the power to protect their owners from Sorcery. Which also helps to explain why we don't see as much Sorcery in the Corwin books as in the Merlin books; No one with real power was dumb enough to try using Sorcery on Corwin. Even Brand never tried to directly use Sorcery on Corwin. Shoby187

That's really interesting--can you recall the citations for any of those Zelazny sources? More generally, are there good resources (interviews, essays, notes, seances, etc) to be had in which he outlines his Amber vision beyond what appears in the ten books and five short stories? One that I hadn't thought of is The Black Road War introduction, which someone mentioned in another thread about dead or missing royals. I actually didn't know about the short stories until quite recently and now every time a new Zelazny-Amber nugget surfaces it's like finding a $50 bill wedged between my couch cushions.

By the way, Shoby187, in the quote above do you mean that you heard just that first line and everything that follows is your extrapolation or does Zelazny suggest the whole ball of wax? It sounds really good either way, I'm just curious...

The only thing I have to add re: the Spikards / Pattern Swords issue is that in the short story Hall of Mirrors Corwin gives Luke some more background on the Spikards, explaining: "Back in the early days of creation, the gods had a series of rings their champions used in the stabilization of Shadow." If that's not intriguing I don't know what is.

[RPGPundit]

Yeah really, what "gods" is Corwin even talking about? And "stabilization of shadow"??
Isn't that what creating the Pattern did??

RPGPundit

[Nihilistic Mind]

But with the Spikards pre-dating Pattern, we can imagine that stabilization means something other than Order.
Hmm, very intriguing!

[weilide]

Yeah really, what "gods" is Corwin even talking about? And "stabilization of shadow"??
Isn't that what creating the Pattern did??

RPGPundit

Yes indeed, but if the Spikards pre-date the Pattern then that may mean that they were the things primarily involved in "shadow stabilization" until the Pattern came along and replaced them, in which case there may be a lot of unneeded gods wandering around unemployed with some big axes to grind...

[Shoby187]

That's really interesting--can you recall the citations for any of those Zelazny sources? More generally, are there good resources (interviews, essays, notes, seances, etc) to be had in which he outlines his Amber vision beyond what appears in the ten books and five short stories? One that I hadn't thought of is The Black Road War introduction, which someone mentioned in another thread about dead or missing royals. I actually didn't know about the short stories until quite recently and now every time a new Zelazny-Amber nugget surfaces it's like finding a $50 bill wedged between my couch cushions.

By the way, Shoby187, in the quote above do you mean that you heard just that first line and everything that follows is your extrapolation or does Zelazny suggest the whole ball of wax? It sounds really good either way, I'm just curious...

The only thing I have to add re: the Spikards / Pattern Swords issue is that in the short story Hall of Mirrors Corwin gives Luke some more background on the Spikards, explaining: "Back in the early days of creation, the gods had a series of rings their champions used in the stabilization of Shadow." If that's not intriguing I don't know what is.

Well, I read an interview a long time ago (like 12 years ago) in some little sci-fi magazine where Zelazny talked about the Pattern swords. I think that's where I read that they were part of the creation of Tir and Rebma. I know the part about the pattern putting its image on them to protect it from them is pretty well known but I don't know where it comes from. I've seen people quote that part in some of the Amberzine's out there.

The one thing I remember for sure from that magazine is that Zelzany said that Amberites cannot conceive children near the Pattern. It's why they all have so few children. They have to leave Amber in order to have kids.

Man I wish I could remember which magazine it was that I read. It was something like Science Fiction Monthly! It was a small little magazine, one of those thin magazines about a quarter the size of something like Popular Mechanics.