Parenthood: Caine

[RPGPundit]

Only one really essential question here: is Caine as a dad such that you end up being the one person in the world that can trust him; or such that even you can't trust him?

RPGPundit

[Nihilistic Mind]

I think Caine could be the kind of dad that is proud to know he can't trust his own children, assuming he's responsible for their 'education'.

[Trevelyan]

From his actions (betrayal and double cross, faking his death, spying on the family with creative use of Trump, knives in the dark, saving the day) he seems like a cold, hard, driven individual. Yet whenever people talk about Caine they suggest a more wild and reckless character (knife fighting, drinking and whoring in Amber, affairs with the daughters of nobility). Putting the two together gives the impression that Caine definitely had a dark side, and puts his own views and methods, but not necessarily his own interests, about those of anyone else.

In many ways, I see Caine as being not dissimilar from Avalon era Corwin. He's a somewhat nasty character intent on pursuing his own pleasures and enjoying the thrill that comes with danger. Yet beneath it all he has a core of inner strength and goodness, albeit tempered with an ideosyncratic approach to heroism - in his own story, Caine could best be described as a protagonist rather than a hero as Corwin perhaps became.

As a father, I imagine that Caine would have little obvious interest in a young child, but for a teenager or young adult, Caine is the guy who isn't afraid to take them drinking in the more questionable parts of town, or who willingly introduces them to any number of shad contacts. Something of a hands-on mob boss, perhaps, who hopes that his offspring will take over the family business?

At the same time, Caine would expect his children to show loyalty to him as a father and to Amber as a city/nation. The ends may justify the means, but the end result should never be in doubt for a child of Caine.

[gabriel_ss4u]

from a practical point of view, i think Corwin said it best in his advice to Dara on trusting family...
Nuff said.
(No need for quotes, we all have THAT one memorized.... right?)

[Nihilistic Mind]

I think that's a GM requirement...

[RPGPundit]

I think Caine could be the kind of dad that is proud to know he can't trust his own children, assuming he's responsible for their 'education'.

Yes, I could see that: Caine as the utterly fucked-up dad who wants to make his kids as "tough" and ruthless as he is, so he teaches by example, betraying them often in order to teach them that they can "trust no one", the whole time thinking he's doing it because he loves them and thinks its what they will need in order to survive.

RPGPundit

[JongWK]

Is there a point where Cain could say "OK, you learned the lesson" ? What would be the next, then?

A completely static relationship would be odd, especially if all other Amber parents have an evolving relationship with their children.

[RPGPundit]

Is there a point where Cain could say "OK, you learned the lesson" ? What would be the next, then?

A completely static relationship would be odd, especially if all other Amber parents have an evolving relationship with their children.

No, of course, it should be one that evolves; however the real problem would be that by that time the kid would be so wary of Caine that he'd never trust him to have really changed.  And of course if he did, Caine might think its time for another "lesson".

RPGPundit

[Nihilistic Mind]

I think that would make Caine a very interesting parent as a recurring part of any campaign... Especially considering how static other relationships between elders and their progeny.

[JongWK]

No, of course, it should be one that evolves; however the real problem would be that by that time the kid would be so wary of Caine that he'd never trust him to have really changed.  And of course if he did, Caine might think its time for another "lesson".

RPGPundit

Damned if you do, damned if you don't? That's not an interesting choice for players...

[Trevelyan]

Damned if you do, damned if you don't? That's not an interesting choice for players...

But it works well as a "bad stuff" parental option to inflict on a player.

[JongWK]

But it works well as a "bad stuff" parental option to inflict on a player.

I agree, but what happens when the player moves into Good Stuff territory?

[Nihilistic Mind]

Caine leaves them alone... He simply disappears to spy on people. Or he can take on the task of protecting the PC, who knows.

[Uncle Twitchy]

In my recent campaign, I allowed one of my players to take the backstory of his previous Vampire: The Requiem character -- an assassin -- and made him Caine's son. Caine essentially showed up and told him, "Look, you're my son, I have need of you and the skills you've acquired, and it's time for you to stop playing 'vampire' and fulfill the purpose I had in placing you in this particular reality. Yes, I set you up in the life -- or 'unlife' -- you've had in order to toughen you up for what's to come, because you're frankly going to be dealing with beings that make the political intrigues and assassinations of these vampires you've been dealing with look like kindergarten playground spats -- your relatives. By the way, my name's Caine."

Caine's taking him to Tir-Na Nog'th to walk the Pattern (and "burn" the vampirism from him), then off into Shadow again for a crash course in genealogy, cosmology and politics. Then he'll give him a Trump deck and say, "Okay, contact me only if you absolutely have to... the way I understand it, all my siblings have disappeared, only their kids are around to run things, and the Courts of Chaos are on the move. I'm going to look for your aunts and uncles... you keep an eye on your cousins." Then he'll leave.

And that's Caine as a father in a nutshell. At least, how I'm running him these days.

[Syzygy]

Caine's too smart to trust any child.

Recognizing that the child might be a weakness for him, he keeps the kid well outside of his schemes.