Just how Batshit are Logrus Users?

[RPGPundit]

Do they go psycho? How often? Are they just a bit confused, or is it like "getting an uzi and taking out the podpeople at the 7-11 because my dog told me to" batshit crazy?

RPGPundit

[finarvyn]

I got the impression that "Logrus Madness" is one of those things that happens immediately after walking the Logrus, but that this madness passes and doesn't seem to keep coming back.

I assume that the person has a period where his or her mind is trying to cope with the new dimensions or whatever has been impressed upon the brain, and that once they figure out the nature of reality around them they are okay again. Merlin certainly didn't seem to have any long-term effects of madness, but he was only 1/2 from the Courts and that could impact things.

So ... I don't think those from Chaos were really batty. Just an opinon.

[Arref]

Imprinting the Logrus is a dangerous trial. The Logrus is not exclusive to a certain blood or family line, neither does it kill as surely as the Pattern of Amber to those that do not properly essay it. Logrus initiates always suffer from at least a small period of mania after imprint. No one escapes the Logrus untouched, though most Logrus-manias and dementias are curable, some are permanent. The Logrus seems to have a bias of less debilitation to warriors and more to warlocks. It affects the mind more than the body.

Of a hundred Chaosians, forty might feel they have the ambition and courage to face the Logrus. Thirty-six will successfully train to assay. Initiates are 70% men and 30% women by record (more Houses in the Courts are patriarchal).

History of Logrus imprinting shows the following fates for a sample of 36:

    One vanishes into the Logrus, never be seen again.
    Two return with permanent dementia and permanent change of natural form.
    Four return with partial dementia and permanent change of natural form.
    One returns with minor dementia and permanent change of natural form.
    Two return with partial dementia and permanent loss of memory.
    Eight return with partial dementia and partial loss of memory.
    Two return with minor dementia and imprint flashbacks.
    Two return with partial dementia and permanent phobia.
    Eight return with partial dementia and partial phobia.
    Two return with partial dementia and permanent obsession.
    Two return with minor dementia and partial obsession.
    Two return with minor dementia and minor obsession.

As you may see, approximately 40% of successful initiates to the Logrus have some sort of permanent disability from the imprint. Troubles labeled as 'permanent' can not be fixed by current techniques in Chaos. You don't often see these poor people, most are in secluded House Sanitariums. Afflictions can be cured for the partial and minor effects, given time.

So a Lord of Chaos, in the traditional sense of someone who can lead a House and has Logrus ability, is selected from this resulting 20 out of a 100 Chaosians with successful imprints, and no lingering or permanent afflictions.

Merlin's entire narrative demonstrates his lingering bias from Logrus.

[Trevelyan]

Arref, do you have a source for the above?

[Otha]

Given the profound changes involved in walking the Pattern, I'd be surprised if a few people didn't have some psychological effects from walking it, too...

[Arref]

Given the profound changes involved in walking the Pattern, I'd be surprised if a few people didn't have some psychological effects from walking it, too...

Great point. I've explored that a bit IMC, but not significantly.

And no, there is no source for the above post about Logrus except a "feels right" notion I got from the books.

[SaintAndSinner]

Arref, do you have a source for the above?

A reference would be nice.  Thanks Arref.  

[Erick Wujcik]

I got the impression that "Logrus Madness" is one of those things that happens immediately after walking the Logrus, but that this madness passes and doesn't seem to keep coming back.

I assume that the person has a period where his or her mind is trying to cope with the new dimensions or whatever has been impressed upon the brain, and that once they figure out the nature of reality around them they are okay again. Merlin certainly didn't seem to have any long-term effects of madness, but he was only 1/2 from the Courts and that could impact things.

So ... I don't think those from Chaos were really batty. Just an opinon.

This is a pretty good summary of what Merlin conveys in various passages.

The best is probably from "Trumps of Doom" (page 635 of The Great Book of Amber):

Bill Roth: "I thought you had to walk the Pattern to gain that power?"

Merlin: "They have a sort of equivalent called the Logrus. It's a kind of chaotic maze. Keeps shifting about. Very dangerous. Unbalances you mentally, too, for a time. No fun."

Other conversations, with Suhuy, and with Jurt, imply that there are cases of both death, and permanent madness, among those who essay the Logrus... and I have the distinct impression that insanity is also common among the ages of the Courts of Chaos.

Also, a quote many of you would not have seen, from the Prologue to the Trumps of Doom, describing Merlin's first essay of the Logrus: "...Mad laughter rang about him, ceasing only when he realized it to be his own."

That chunk of Merlin's experience was published only twice before, in just 500 copies of the 1st limited edition of "Trumps of Doom" and in just 1000 copies of Amberzine #4... and now available only in "Manna from Heaven," the collection of Roger Zelazny's stories that includes all the Amber short stories:

http://www.amazon.com/Manna-Heaven-Roger-Zelazny/dp/0809530953/ref=sr_1_1/102-9491265-9671318?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1186186903&sr=8-1

I would strongly recommend buying it NOW, since I'm not sure how much longer it's going to be in print..

Erick

[Croaker]

Great!!! I'm buying it at once
Thank you very much

[gabriel_ss4u]

I go to sleep trying to think upon the Logrus, contemplate it's ways...
Is there anything wrong with that...?
Why are you looking at me like that?

[jibbajibba]

well this from the first AMber game I played back in ohhh... 95? no must be earlier year out of college 92? when was the game released ?

Anyway sent to my first character Hugo by the GM...

Some notes made during an open lecture given by Suhuy concerning the nature of Trump, and the necessity to protect those few Trump Artists that the Houses of Chaos has left, after the recent spate of assassinations ...

"the Proud Factions of Chaos writhe and gather, the grand Majesty of their consummate patience is tremendous in its awe and concentration,We see what We were not meant to see and the bark of the flesh makes Us shiver with dread,from Our Houses of Renown the leaves fall,many say all hope is lost from Within but that which makes Us Glory in our Madness exists still and is untouched by the leeching presence,only the knowledge of the Few blessed with the Sight of the Quill is diminished and then some,how was this done?say the Many,and the answer lies in the study,the pursuit of the beginning, the mystery of the all and the nature of the Abyss,from the icy depths of Emptyness,to the 'felling' and the Tempests of the Rim,to the winds of insanity and the murders of Our Beloved,Rycor,stand forth,there is a weakness Within,there is a chink in retrospect,like twins of ill repute They stand,someone from Within Chaos,together they sup the nectar of death and plot and gamble Their Way through the Harvest of the Talent,so We seek to spike the tail and trap the rodent,but what of the Forthcoming... the Forthcoming,from the first the Trump had renown and the practice was nutured,Many speculated with Us and the canvas was seen in its ultimate Blackness the ultimate Nothing,Empty,Void and the winds and those that Fell into the Abyss see the consequences and the perspectives,the ‘Essence’ resides and is captured,pleasant to seek and sweet to behold,Many can taste the fruits and all can see from Our Eyes,Their Eyes,but there is Another,the Opener of the Way found the Way,We trembled at the consequences and sought to unhinge the doors of Ashalt,so it was the Opener seeks a spike,traps the essence through the conduit,seals the Essence in a prison and the Way is Opened,the sole,the soul the One and only,the true picture,what We term the Primal Trump,the Before,the Now and the Hereafter,this then is the Way that was Opened and the Way that must be Shut before the Sands of time are consumed in the Tempest,before the Blood of the Accursed and the Accused is used to tear down the Boundary and We and Us are consumed in the shadow of the nightmares of Our design and dread,should the Boundary fall the Way shall be Opened and the Blood shall feed the Malice and a New Order shall exist,but is all seen?has the Curtain moved?the Tree grows but is not grown,the screams of the sundered One are heard but not deafening,the Door is guarded but not impassable,the spine is strong but not unbendable,We take the last and We wait the patience,as unfolding,as maleable,as the change of its design endures,as the Primal Trump exists so none may stand in its succulent Shadow,none may tear out the page of the Book of Infinity,sharp as the Quill is it cannot help Us in Our circumstance,to erase the ultimate drawing,to free Her from its branches,the Clutch of Damnation,to rid the notion,how We strive and ponder,We bellow and rage,puff out your Chests and suck the flesh of the Night from the bones of Dawn with the cries of Your War..."

.... with that Suhuy began to spit forth fire and in an uncontrollable paroxysm of mad wrath ripped the head and torso of a hapless front row demonic Acolyte asunder, drenching the room with hot sticky blood and the stench of brimstone, the gathered audience scattered in panic, save one, the student who had asked the original question concerning the Nature of Trump, one of the more talented Artists in the Courts, half Chaosite, half Amberite, the Enigma, the Elusive, he known in the shadows and the Realm as Hugo ....

[SunBoy]

Dude... that bloke can write. Great introduction for a character.