New and Creative Ways of Making Amber PCs suffer

[RPGPundit]

Ok, this is the thread for us GMs to figure out new and wonderful ways of putting the PCs in our Amber game through agony (and the players too, though hopefully in ways they find fun).

I think that obviously, if you want to be high-brow about it, the obvious way to to do this is with the following two steps:
1. Put obstacles in the way of them getting what they want, that take great effort to overcome.
2. When they get what they want, let them see there's all kinds of unexpected consequences.

But let's get low-brow too; here are the ones that are already laid down:
1. Have them suffer horrific injury over and over again (that Massive amberite endurance needs to be used!!).
2. Have their lovers betray them.
3. Have their family members betray them.
4. Shit, have anyone betray them period.

So, no examples involving "betrayal" or horrific injury... unless its really REALLY creative.

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[Stormwind]

As a player, I simply love completely unexpected twists in the plot or in a given situation (and naturally I try to incorporate this when I GM). Thus I would add:

• Just when the player thinks that they know what is happening, then their character faces an unexpected twist or turn in the situation which requires significant inventiveness on behalf of the player and/or a different approach to the entire situation.
  

This is basically putting obstacles before the character, but it is this specific example that I believe is worthy of mention.  

[Xanador]

You may consider this a betrayal but I thought it was cool.

I don't have a lot of experience as a GM in Amber but I got my regular players to give it a try a while back. My basic approach was to let them do what they wanted for awhile. After letting them get comfortable in the setting I sent them to The Courts as members of Ambers new embassy post-shadowfall.

Now one of the players had created an elaborate set of agents that she was going to use for all sorts of cloak and dagger stuff. But she didn't put any points in them, despite my subtle prompting to do so and explanation of the benefits of points. Then she took them to the Courts. Where they (mere shadows) were promptly replaced by shapeshifting agents of Chaos.

So how do you make PC's suffer? Just give them the rope to hang themselves.



Just a note: most of my Amber has been as a player in a campaign that goes back to '93. Unfortunately the players have spread out over 5 states so games are infrequent these days.

[Tamelorn]

One of my things I like to pull out is have a gold ring crop up, with lots of intricate and interesting hoops they have to jump through to grasp at some fleeting potential for power or reward.  You have plenty of time in the interim to figure out if it is some elder amberite messing with them, some personal enemy or something more sinister.

[jibbajibba]

i) Make them betery the person they trust the most
ii) make them kill the things they love the most
iii) have them turn againt everythign they ever trusted and beleived in

And make sure than once they have taken the decision to do these things that it was all a futile waste and it could all have been avoided ...

[gabriel_ss4u]

Ouch jibba...

Yes... suffer.... muHahahahahaaaa!

Umm, Was it a book example or am I still trying to convince myself it didn't happen to my character?
When I 1st started playing Amber (back in '92?) I learned some suffering as i was not only the player with the most bad stuff, i was also the only player w/ bad stuff, well... one PC had 1 pt.
I had 6.
no-one else had any.

I seem to recall the slap-stick effect humor/torture of bedpans being emptied above me consistently when walking with the 'good-one's' who obviously never get touched. The ridicule of the players was enough, let alone the looks of the characters as they try not to laugh too much. (God,I hated that!)


A love interest cultivated by a player being killed, tortured, or taken by another.

[jibbajibba]

I got a PC to kill his own son once cos he thought he had killed his mother (the Pc's wife) and his twin brother. He hadn't it was a shapeshifted NPC.... I think when he found out was the best bit ....

[Croaker]

Well, one of my PC married, and had a child. His wife was killed. He discovered later that his wife married him for political reasons, of course, and intended on using him. Thing is, she was killed by her ally because, in time, she grew to truly love the PC and wanted to betray her ally to him, and live in peace with the PC and their child.
Of course, he learned this

And then, the bad stuff character was was always ridiculous, whatever his efforts. Like that time when, at Amber's great ball, while he was finely dancing, the center of all attention, his pants did rip... That, and he later vomited on random. In front of the court.

[Lawbag]

The 7th Sea GM Guide had tons of good information from John Wick on how to fuck over your players whilst not actually killing them...

[Nihilistic Mind]

The way I usually do it is this:

1. Force the players to make difficult decisions.
2. Test their character's humanity every step of the way (helps them discover what is more important to their characters)
3. Every decision they make has consequences (Now granted, that's a reward/suffering system depending on the situation... Not every decision they make lead to more suffering.)
4. Hit them below the belt: let them test their character's weaknesses and strengths, but always, always surprise them with a sucker punch every so often.

[RPGPundit]

The way I usually do it is this:

1. Force the players to make difficult decisions.
2. Test their character's humanity every step of the way (helps them discover what is more important to their characters)
3. Every decision they make has consequences (Now granted, that's a reward/suffering system depending on the situation... Not every decision they make lead to more suffering.)
4. Hit them below the belt: let them test their character's weaknesses and strengths, but always, always surprise them with a sucker punch every so often.

I agree with all of your points. Besides that, when I first saw number 2, I thought it said "test their humility" at first, and that one applies too. There are a surprising amount of opportunities in Amber for a youngish Amberite (ie. a PC) to end up having to momentarily be brought down from being one of the most powerful beings in the entire universe, when having to behave themselves in the face of older relatives, cosmic beings, or potentates from Chaos, all of whom may at times intentionally seek to force them to debase themselves. This makes a great opportunity both for the PCs to suffer in the short term, or to fail the "test" and end up committing a terrible mistake. And in the long term, to seek the opportunity for revenge against those who slighted their pride.

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[downeymb]

In a previous game I ran, a female noble PC fled her home city rather than be forced into an arranged marriage with a noble from another rival house, who would undoubtedly be twice her size and three times her age.  She left the city in a merchant wagon.  Right at the same time she was about to leave, another nobleman NPC showed up and bought the whole wagon for his own purposes.  He was obnoxious, full of his own self importance, hot-headed, and a master swordsman.  In other words, exactly like the PC.  Obviously, they hated each other from day one.

Later on they received word that their city had descended into total disorder and civil war.  Both houses had accused the other of disposing with one of their heirs and shipping their own heir to somewhere else to hide the fact.  It was a complete mess and thousands had already died.

At this point it came out that the man the PC was supposed to marry was none other than her coutnerpart and chief rival.  The look on the player's face was a mix of shock, disgust, outrage, and shame that I will never forget.  

This was not in an Amber game, but it could work just as well.  Random arranges the marriage with another nation in the interest of the Crown, especially for a character that truly values her own freedom, and you can get some massive trouble caused.

[gabriel_ss4u]

This was not in an Amber game, but it could work just as well.  Random arranges the marriage with another nation in the interest of the Crown, especially for a character that truly values her own freedom, and you can get some massive trouble caused.

I was wondering 1/2 way thru if it was another system, and thinking to myself... "it doesn't matter, this is perfect for Amber type situations"
So thank you for the input, and welcome to the forum downeymb.
Lemme know if you ever get to play Amber.

[downeymb]

I have played Amber and love it.  It's the Holy Grail of Roleplaying Games as far as most of my group is concerned.  I may be running an Amber game after we finish with our current experiment, if the players are up to the challenge.

[jibbajibba]

I have played Amber and love it.  It's the Holy Grail of Roleplaying Games as far as most of my group is concerned.  I may be running an Amber game after we finish with our current experiment, if the players are up to the challenge.

We are kicking off a Play by email (well wiki really) game just now if you want to get involved. There is a voluminous thread on the topic.