If Amber was to be written today...

[finarvyn]

Suppose we lived in an alternate universe where Roger Zelazny was born a quarter century after his actual birth date, so that he would be in the prime writing phase of his life right now. And, as Roger just had a nifty little idea for a world called Amber, he would sit down to write it now instead of in the 1970's.

How would it be different?

For example, I don't think that smoking is as prevalent now as it was in the 1970's, so I doubt that there would be so many scenes with folks lighting a cigarette unless Roger wanted to recapture that 1950's pulp feel.

Also, large books weren't as common back in the 1970's as they are today. (My hardback Lord of the Rings is something like 1100 pages; the newest Jim Butcher Cinder Spires book is over 600 and it's just the first of a series.) Now that GRR Martin's gigantic Game of Thrones books are out, as well as Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time and so many others that fill the shelves of B&N, it seems like the thick and hefty novel is the norm and it's possible that Roger would have written something much more wordy than what we got.

What about main influences. In our world, guys like Neil Gaiman and George RR Martin were influenced by Zelazny. In this alternate world, where other guys came first, who might have been Roger's inspiration and how might they have changed the style of Amber?

Sorry if it's a dumb topic. It just popped into my head and I was curious if anyone had any thoughts on this.

[Krimson]

Also, large books weren't as common back in the 1970's as they are today...

I'm just going to mull this one a bit, considering the Chronicles of Amber I read as a kid belonged to my mom and were two large hard bound volumes on the bookshelf. In the 70s.

[Voros]

Zelazny's style tended towards concision, he started with short stories and novellas and slowly adapted to the novel. I just can't imagine him writing the kind of sprawling undisciplined prose that is so common in so much modern day fantasy and sf.

[finarvyn]

I'm just going to mull this one a bit, considering the Chronicles of Amber I read as a kid belonged to my mom and were two large hard bound volumes on the bookshelf. In the 70s.

Yes, but each of the volumes was actually a collection of several books which were originally published individually. The early SFBC omnibus editions had 2 books in it (338 pages) and 2 books in it (434 pages), neither of which is a really huge volume by the standards of many of the books today. More recent SFBC omnibus editions had the five Corwin books in one volume and the five Merlin books in one volume. Dunno the page count there since I never bought those. (This also makes me wonder why the Merlin books never got a two-volume omnibus set. No idea.)

My curiosity is more along the lines of "would Nine Princes in Amber look different if written today?", or "would Guns of Avalon look different if written today?", and so on.

[finarvyn]

Zelazny's style tended towards concision, he started with short stories and novellas and slowly adapted to the novel. I just can't imagine him writing the kind of sprawling undisciplined prose that is so common in so much modern day fantasy and sf.

Agreed, but I wonder if this was because the market at the time seemed to be supporting and encouraging that format of literature or if it was because that was the way he liked to write.

[Krimson]

Yes, but each of the volumes was actually a collection of several books which were originally published individually. The early SFBC omnibus editions had 2 books in it (338 pages) and 2 books in it (434 pages), neither of which is a really huge volume by the standards of many of the books today. More recent SFBC omnibus editions had the five Corwin books in one volume and the five Merlin books in one volume. Dunno the page count there since I never bought those. (This also makes me wonder why the Merlin books never got a two-volume omnibus set. No idea.)

My curiosity is more along the lines of "would Nine Princes in Amber look different if written today?", or "would Guns of Avalon look different if written today?", and so on.

I was just amused growing up in the 70s in a place with many large hardcovers on the shelf. Anyhow I'll try and make a serious response later. I need to mull this over.

[Jason D]

My guess would be that Zelazny would have given us stronger and more active female characters (as only Flora, Fiona, and Dara get to do much of anything in Corwin's books), and we'd have gotten a lot more more insight into the Courts of Chaos, likely in the form of a parallel narrative.

I don't think Zelazny would have balked at writing longer books, either. Changeling and Madwand were each novel-length, and his works with Sheckley were even longer.

[Headless]

About smoking.  I think I read an interview where Zelazny said when he was stuck he went out to smoke and had Corwin do the same.  Half way through Merlin he discovered smoking was bad so he quit.  Merlin did to for the most part.  

If he was writing today when he got stuck Corwin might start fiddling with his phone.  And nothing else would ever be written.

[Voros]

Agreed, but I wonder if this was because the market at the time seemed to be supporting and encouraging that format of literature or if it was because that was the way he liked to write.

I would guess that there was an actual market for sf short stories and novellas of an overtly modernist form and style via The Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction had to have had some effect. He was lucky enough to come around at a time when you could write formally experimental sf and still enjoy commercial success. He does mention Hemingway's minimalism as one influence on the novels:

"Ernest Hemingway would write and see the whole story, and then he would intentionally remove something, rewriting the story without it. In his mind, that thing would still be there. Even though the reader doesn't know what it is, it would influence everything else in the story. The reader would feel there was something there even though he couldn't put his finger on it."

So to me his interests obviously pushed him to shorter forms. The Amber novels are remarkably compressed with incident compared to not only modern fantasy but even the pulp fantasy of the era. They're a hybrid of pulp and modernism, just not as overtly as his earlier work. Even his longer novels are hardly lengthy compared to the standards of the 80s and beyond.

[finarvyn]

My guess would be that Zelazny would have given us stronger and more active female characters (as only Flora, Fiona, and Dara get to do much of anything in Corwin's books)...

I can't believe I overlooked that one. Ouch. Particularly since my ADRP group is usually 50% or higher female.

[bkwrm79]

I agree that the princesses would be more active, and that Corwin would dismiss them less readily - I see him as an unreliable narrator on that point anyway.  He's possibly correct regarding Flora, but I think the later books of his quintology indicate that Deirdre and certainly Fiona are far more capable than he realizes.  

Other changes are harder for me to predict.  Bringing the novel forward in time, especially if we assume that Corwin therefore wakes in 2017 earth, changes both the author and the character.  Corwin's most recent experiences will be different, reshaping his actions in NPIA - though theoretically, those few decades should not make much of a difference to him once he regains his memories.

[Headless]

Everyone has Trumps and we use them to look at cats and argue with strangers.

[Krimson]

Everyone has Trumps and we use them to look at cats and argue with strangers.

Sounds like something Dworkin would do.

[Lord Darkview]

While I certainly do think we'd have gotten stronger female characters, I also hear the commentary on verbosity and sorta cringe.  One of the great thing about them is that you can just glide through them, experiencing detailed, epic contests in a page, and entire campaigns of activity over a dozen.  That talent is lost on most modern authors.

It's a crying shame, really.  When people say "kids don't read as much because they lack the attention span," I wonder how much of that is true and how much it is because that people like RZ could write in a few pages what GRRM takes five hundred to do?

I'd hope the books would be exactly as long as they are, but I have my doubts.

[finarvyn]

While I certainly do think we'd have gotten stronger female characters, I also hear the commentary on verbosity and sorta cringe.  One of the great thing about them is that you can just glide through them, experiencing detailed, epic contests in a page, and entire campaigns of activity over a dozen.  That talent is lost on most modern authors.

It's a crying shame, really.  When people say "kids don't read as much because they lack the attention span," I wonder how much of that is true and how much it is because that people like RZ could write in a few pages what GRRM takes five hundred to do?

I'd hope the books would be exactly as long as they are, but I have my doubts.

I'm not saying that uber-long books are better, but I think they are the trend. I agree that "just as they are" is an excellent thing. I was just pondering how they might have differed if written for today's market.