Ideas about a 2e

[RPGPundit]

So, what should 2e Amber look like? My answer is pretty much like 1e Amber but with more toolkit options.
I mean let's face it, 1e Amber was one of the longest-running most successful RPGs in terms of staying in print and having a huge fanbase. Its clear to me that the people who are arguing for radical changes are people who despise Amber and would never have an interest in supporting it anyways; they are advocating changes in order to try to subvert and sink it.
There's nothing about the system per se AS A WHOLE that doesn't work; you can certainly talk about fiddling with certain bits of the system, like magic. But Amber 2e should not vary from the original basic concept: diceless, four stats, attribute auction, ranks, GM authority, etc. etc.

I sure hope we hear some more news from the people behind this project soon...

RPGPundit

[Otha]

...they are advocating changes in order to try to subvert and sink it.

Oh, please.  Spare us your conspiracy theories.  People who don't care don't care.  Irrational hatred... well, I don't need to tell you what that's like.

The reason people advocate change is because they honestly feel that the game would be improved by it.  Possibly, it would make the game into something they'd be interested in playing, when they weren't before; possibly, it would make the game into what they are already playing.

Mostly, it's a matter of ego.  People want validation.  They want to believe that the way THEY play is best, and that the way other people play is misguided or even harmful.

You can understand that point of view, I'm sure.

To get back on topic:

I think what a 2e version should have is a kind of modular design that presents various options for play, and the influence that option has had on people who have played it.  For an example of this, check out the DMG2 for DnD 3.5; they present a bunch of optional rules, with guidance on the effect the change has on the game.

[finarvyn]

1. I would like to see all of the material from the Core Rulebook integrated together with Shadow Knight. All of the powers, Elders, and so on. If this becomes too large for a single volume (which I suspect it would be) then divide it into a player's book and a GM's campaign guide.

2. I would like to see Rebma and similar places expanded. (Especially Shadow Earth because it sounds like a neat place and I'd love to live there someday and ... what? Never mind. )

3. Mechanically, I would like to see several options for major game components in the same way that Erick presented multiple versions of the Elders. Give us a couple options for character generation, variants for attributes, and so on. Make it a game that suggests ways for a GM to run his own game, and then lets him do it.

[Seanchai]

3. Mechanically, I would like to see several options for major game components in the same way that Erick presented multiple versions of the Elders. Give us a couple options for character generation, variants for attributes, and so on. Make it a game that suggests ways for a GM to run his own game, and then lets him do it.

This is what I'm interested in: a toolkit.

Seanchai

[multipleegos]

A toolkit would be swell. Mostly though I want the game to remain as simple and expeditious as it already is. Too much complexity would just get in the way.

[gabriel_ss4u]

I just finished reading the above posts and I really should think a bit more before adding my opinion...
nah.
I'll write more later, just a quick idea here.
One of the delights of the Amber series was the poetic style of writing RZ used.
If there were some way to incorporate that style into some of the supplemental or source-type material, I think it would be a great novelty of the book.
A few letters from some of the elders to their possible offspring, A NPC supplement that's attached to the 1st print run (collectibility)
Possible Houses of Chaos and Amber (extended)
Basically, a brain-trust of well informed, highly creative people coming together to give input. Hey, lets set a forum talk @ the next Amber-con for such ideas... I'll be there (my 1st!!!!)
what do ya'll think?

[multipleegos]

I wish I could attend AmberCon

Actually that's a great idea. I've always wondered how to properly use the Golden Circle, for one thing.

[Arref]

I've spent so much time playing Amber as it is that I hope the second edition is basically a cleaned-up version of the first (with the annotated tool kit, that would be nice. Imagine how a GM section explaining the pitfalls would help in running the game for first timers.)

As to a revised approach... Well, I've got playtest and notes from the last couple years. When it became obvious that GOO was not going to do a second edition, I started working it out on my own.

[Nihilistic Mind]

[Long post... scroll to bottom for synopsis]

Seeing that ADRP and SK covered everything in the books, or at least gave a possible way to use the material from the novels and translate it into your own game, what would I need from a second edition?

If they're just gonna reiterate what's in the first two published rpg books, why would I want to get it?


How about additional background for the world that is Amber... Give us some places we can use, give us tons of plot hooks, describe what Zelazny hasn't.

I am not talking about re-writing canon here, simply to give me new ideas based on the Zelazny world. Give me tons of Chaos houses, noble Amber families, Golden Circle shadows, and backstories, names, places, landmarks, history! I'll do the discarding and modification myself...

If anyone looks for AmberDRPG material online, you only need to look as far as PBeM web pages to see a version of Amber you haven't thought of, yet. Just imagine reading about a bunch of things you could use for background (or disregard at will) without having to go through defunct web pages or campaign synopsis.


+I'd like to see condensed Diceless rules, to attract new people to the game without having them get the ADRP and SK.

+I'd like to see a whole chapter dedicated to how King Oberon used to rule Amber. The importance of nobility and courtly intrigue at the Amber Court. How well the people of the Realm fair now that Random's in charge. The last two pages of that chapter could even have a small paragraph for each elder amberite as a ruler and what their kingdoms would be like, as well as their policies etc...

+Another chapter on Amber (the realm itself) and its reflections, Rebma and Tir-na Nog'th... Possible Histories I can choose from, etc... Important NPCs with only one set of stats each (I'll be adapting them to my campaign myself, thank you very much). Factions, Magic and technology there... Laws of physics etc...

+Yet another chapter on the Courts of Chaos... All background info, canonical events, additional events made up for more interest. Interesting NPCs, of course!

+And for shadow, how about cool ways to describe them. Help the GM get close to Zelazny's descriptive style. Give me pages that I can flip through and point with my eyes closed for a truly random encounter... Fun stuff to do!

+An entire chapter on the Golden Circle. Shadows that are canon, new Shadows that aren't... Politics, factions, people and places. Economy, trade, warfare...? Nah, we can wing that! Give me important NPCs, which Shadows a PC could find Elders in and why.

+And of course, plot hooks everywhere (Gotta love the Challenge/Focus/Strike sidebars of Legend of the Five Rings RPG), campaign ideas.

+GMing advice, of course. Campaign Settings, Alternate Amber adventures, and a couple of scenarios...


I say sticking to canon is something we wanna do some of the time (they should mark pages with canonical info with a certain color/symbol) but cool new ideas and the possibility of expanding on a theme or threat based on passages from the novels is what I would like to see in the 2nd edition! (something I really enjoyed in Erick's ADRP and SK were the campaign ideas, very general, yet full of possibilities!)


And it should be 800 pages and be called 'The Great RPG Book of Amber'.

Sorry for the very long post. What I want to see is, of course, this: tons of background info I can leaf through and use or disregard at will (based on whatever campaign theme I wish to focus on). Info based on canon should be marked as such, new background places and people should be marked otherwise.

[RPGPundit]

I just finished reading the above posts and I really should think a bit more before adding my opinion...
nah.
I'll write more later, just a quick idea here.
One of the delights of the Amber series was the poetic style of writing RZ used.

I've always described Zelazny as the Ernest Hemmingway of Sci-fi.

Anyways, yes, just like in the original edition, the book should be chock full of Amber quotes.

But I'm thinking beyond that, it should also be chock full of Erick Wujcik quotes!  Namely, the new edition should preserve all of the spectacular game mastering advice Erick provided in both the main Amber book and Shadow Knight, which I think are a hugely influential part of the 1st edition.

RPGPundit

[Otha]

I doubt that's going to happen.

Erick isn't writing this book.  While the authors probably respect Erick's contributions, I doubt they hold him in the same esteem you do.  In fact, I hope they take some of the things that are presented in the game as fact and return them to what they really are, Erick's interpretations of canon.

[gabriel_ss4u]

I am in total agreement w/ RPGPundit + Nihilistic Mind, You are both echoing my thoughts and extrapolating upon them, I would love for us 3 to hook up w/Erick and have a brainstorm session, I have a co-GM that could only contribute too... and we'll have a blast and come up w/things I'm sure none of us could alone. (In a refined cultivated state of prose, that is)
Just let's keep Oth out of it. (No offense buddy, but ya seem a little too opinionated in the devil's advocate vein.)
Well, now that I think of, it might be a good idea for him to come along. He could be the stone the primal blade is sharpened against. (That's my diplomatic side, but honestly Otha, besides your opinion, have you done much w/ Amber, Chaos & beyond..? I'd rather stick to the subject here, but if you have a link to show me YOUR great world of Amber.... post it.)

I'm sad to hear Erick may not have as much input on this new edition.... is that so EW? Please explain the deal and the likely-hood of when this desired 'artifact' may be hitting the shelves.
I would be happy to have the chance to add input into this creative process with the other highly enlightened Amber GMs as well.... so if there IS any chance, hit me up personally on e-mail and lemme know you elders!
PS. I have good stuff!

hmmmm... now that I read alittle more of Otha's writings I do believe he WOULD be a good stone to keep us sharp, the Yin to our Yang? the binary opposite perhaps?

[Nihilistic Mind]

(That's my diplomatic side, but honestly Otha, besides your opinion, have you done much w/ Amber, Chaos & beyond..? I'd rather stick to the subject here, but if you have a link to show me YOUR great world of Amber.... post it.)

Not that Otha needs anyone to back him up, I'll point you to his wikigame.
http://www.skyseastone.net/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Phases/MainPage

In my opinion, it's one of the most original, first series canon, games that I've seen.

Besides, my understanding is that the guys behind 2e will certainly read suggestions directly from this forum. No need for brainstorm sessions until they show an interest on our actual input... I simply mean that they're most likely already fans of Erick's work and will want to share ideas of their own.

[Otha]

Thank you, NM.

I should also point out that I ran a three year campaign by the book when it first came out, and not long thereafter ran a two year campaign mostly by the book.  I played in several PBEM's, and was active on the Patternfall MUSH for about a year.  I've definitely run the game enough, and played the game enough, to be familiar with all its ins and outs.

So please, no ad hominem arguments.

[Trevelyan]

In fact, I hope they take some of the things that are presented in the game as fact and return them to what they really are, Erick's interpretations of canon.

Amen, brother.