Human-level Amber

[RPGPundit]

The other "Reducing Amber to Essentials" thread got me to thinking of something that I think is a far more interesting proposition: Could you run a human-level amber game?

That is to say, a game where the PCs were all mortal humans, set in one shadow, or set in the multiverse as a whole; and without worrying about the Amberites, or featuring them as distant uber-powerful beings.

I've often speculated that such a game could be run. Has anyone ever done it?

If you could, for all intents and purposes, you could run a large variety of genres.

RPGPundit

[JongWK]

It's the Holy Grail of Gaming, isn't it?

[jibbajibba]

You could run a game at the human level but i can't see why you woudl want to...
By that I mean if you kept the concept that there was an Amber level out there that the players could not obtain because they were 'human' then I think the system would break down.

Take my breakdown for Star Wars the ADRPG. I am suggesting that the scale for all players is A + bonus so if you spend 30 points you have 30 in the stat.
If you were to place this in an Amber context you are in effect saying that 0-15 is a human range and 15-25 is Superexceptional and above 25 is ...
Well I can't see why you want to do that. I mean in a Star Wars game there are no Amberites so why do that why not just start the PCs at 0 as an above average Human and then let thm add what they like.

Likewise the amber system itself has no skills system. With Humans the minor skills such as pilot or mechanic are far more important they are the differentiators you woudl need to add these in as Amber style 'powers' like I did in the Star Wars example or introduce a skills system.

I would say just taking the system out of the Amber context and reuse it it can be human based.

[finarvyn]

Part of the key is that everyone has attributes relative to one another, so if there are no "Amber level" characters or NPCs then the system shifts itself so that the new average for the campaign becomes the standard.

I ran a science fiction adventure involving astronauts exploring a damaged moonbase and it worked out fine.

There were no major powers or Amber attributes, but everything was scaled back. The "powers" became skills like Nuclear Physics or Pilot. I simply created a quick chart where players could buy these skills for their characters. (It's been a while, but I'll bet I based it on Erick's 1,2,4,8,16 model.) This sounds a lot like what Pundit is suggesting and there weren't any real problems.

Of course, I went into the game with the assumption that characters would be a bit cinematic and would have success a lot, sort of like the Die Hard movies or other action-adventure. If you really wanted to have a "joe average" game then you'd have to figure out how to account for the fact that characters fail more often. Not impossible to do, of course, because you can just adjust the task difficulties, but not really what ADRP was designed for either.

[RPGPundit]

There is a kind of Amber skill system: its just that the skills are an "either you have it or you don't" sort of thing. The Amber rules are very clear about skills, that they're based on what you have spent your life doing.  A character who spent 8 years in medical school on earth would have all the "skills" of a Shadow Earth doctor, and be able to do and know things that an amberite who hadn't spent that time there wouldn't be able to do or know.

So you could easily translate this into a more detailed "skill system" in a human-level amber game.

RPGPundit

[jibbajibba]

There is a kind of Amber skill system: its just that the skills are an "either you have it or you don't" sort of thing. The Amber rules are very clear about skills, that they're based on what you have spent your life doing.  A character who spent 8 years in medical school on earth would have all the "skills" of a Shadow Earth doctor, and be able to do and know things that an amberite who hadn't spent that time there wouldn't be able to do or know.

So you could easily translate this into a more detailed "skill system" in a human-level amber game.

RPGPundit

Yeah I can conceed that but my point is that in human level game the skills are your real differentiator. No one has Pattern or Logrus etc so skilsl are much more important. I have my own amber skill system because I thought the game needed one anyway but that is an aside.
If you are dropping most of the powers dropping the PCs down to human level then using the Amber system as is its unnecessary. I think the Diceless mechanic, the attribute auction and the cost model for 'the other things you need' are all portable. I just can't quite see why you would want to categorise this as a human game unless you wanted the option to bring in a standard stated Amber character at some point.

I think you can fit the core mechanics into any game already really quite easily but I do thingk that he way Amber works, its mens rea if you will, means that you would come up with a tailored variant for whatever game you were playing. So Yakuza the ADRPG would have different attributes and powers to DR Who the ADRPG.

[Abrojo]

Part of the key is that everyone has attributes relative to one another, so if there are no "Amber level" characters or NPCs then the system shifts itself so that the new average for the campaign becomes the standard.

Yes, definately agree on the attribute values shifting meaning.
Human level shouldnt mean all players have attribute values of -25. Same 100 points, keep the auction, etc. Just have to keep in mind that a human with an attribute of 30 is 30 in a weird human scale, when compared to an amberite he is still wimpy. But in this way you keep the fun aspects and also a comparison point between human PCs.

[Rel Fexive]

My idea is to start such characters as heroes in their own world... a world the soon becomes Important in the big scheme of things.  And the Amberites initially need some good local help so as not to reveal their hand to their enemy too early.

....but what if these heroes were also scions of Amber?

Of course, the Amber connection is not required.


So start with attributes as usual but grade them differently - Human = Weak, Chaos = Average, Amber = Heroic.  Come up with a few "local powers" like magic, psionics or whatever and give them point values roughly in line with the Amber ones dependant on their relative power in the world.

And if they do turn out to be long lost family... just grade the attributes back down and free up the points for Amber powers.

[Abrojo]

i could very well see something like that work nice. You would have to make a very rich setting for the characters to play in. Having Amber as a fallback plan in case things arent very interesting is a good plan B.

[weilide]

For a long time now I've had the germ of an idea in the back of my mind for a game set in Castle Amber and environs in which all the PCs are merely mortal servants or other employees of the castle (butlers, chefs, guards, secretaries, etc). They would encounter the elder Amberites from time to time, perhaps seeing them scrambling to deal with some crisis of epic proportions that the PCs are totally out-of-the-loop on. (Think the "Zeppo" episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, in which the viewers follow Xander as he wanders the city and we get only occasional glimpses of the "main" story). In the meantime, the PCs are contending with their own minor SNAFUs, grappling with the "office politics" of the castle staff, etc. It might be a fun premise for a change-of-pace, especially as a shorter game or convention adventure.

[Nihilistic Mind]

For a long time now I've had the germ of an idea in the back of my mind for a game set in Castle Amber and environs in which all the PCs are merely mortal servants or other employees of the castle (butlers, chefs, guards, secretaries, etc). They would encounter the elder Amberites from time to time, perhaps seeing them scrambling to deal with some crisis of epic proportions that the PCs are totally out-of-the-loop on. (Think the "Zeppo" episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, in which the viewers follow Xander as he wanders the city and we get only occasional glimpses of the "main" story). In the meantime, the PCs are contending with their own minor SNAFUs, grappling with the "office politics" of the castle staff, etc. It might be a fun premise for a change-of-pace, especially as a shorter game or convention adventure.

Sounds fun!

[Shoby187]

I don't think this would be hard to run at all.

Amber: Mortal Men

50 point characters
Attributes: All Attributes Start at Human Rank (-25 points). Players can buy up their Attributes to any level they can afford.

Powers:
Characters can purchase Magic, Broken Pattern or any other ability that fits in with a human level agent.

Examples:

Nigel: Weir Agent of Luke
Psyche: Human
Endurance: Human
Strength: Chaos
Warfare: Human
Implanted Regeneration [19 points]
Implanted Alternate Shape [16 points]

Julia Barnes
Psyche: Human
Endurance: Human
Strength: Human
Warfare: Human
Adept of Broken Pattern [25 points]
Sorcery [15 points]
Power Words [10 points]

Old Cade: Agent of the Crown
Psyche: Human
Endurance: Human
Strength: Human
Warfare: 25