Ideas about a 2e

[gabriel_ss4u]

Thank you for your comments gentlemen. I see your point. It's just that I tend to get a little defensive about this game I love, and the creators who brought it to us.

If I have offended thee, I will most assuredly consider reparations. as I wish not to offend a scion of the true realm.

I have since peeked @ some of your writings, comments, and such.
I like.

Olive branch...

Gabriel

[Croaker]

Sorry too, It seems I opened pandora's box inadvertantly, by provoking another pointless debate.

Let's just say that the people at the forge have various opinions about RPGs, some of these may seem anathema to some other gamers, as is sometimes the case whereas opinions about a cherished subject are concerned.

[gabriel_ss4u]

I must say again, I am honored to be among the group I have been speaking with.
Amber is the greatest RPG and one of the best storylines I've had the joy to be involved with/experience.

I admit that as much gaming as I have done there is much more I have not.
This alone plus the fact I've never been to an Ambercon shows my still stagnant growth in things Golden Circle & Black Zone related.

Marriage and military have robbed me of much of my free time, but once things fit better in my crazy (chaotic) life I hope to start doing the Con as a regular.
I feel like my NPC, compared to some of you elders of the field out there.
So if you choose, look  me with the puppy factor in mind.... but also with an acknowledged 1st ranking in my Gen. (no no no, I won't be giving out which stat. -so to speak)

Someday perhaps I can make a living doing things 'gaming' as a job.

the dream of us all, and the reality of Erick... you lucky bastard!  
Viva Amber!

[jibbajibba]

[Long post... scroll to bottom for synopsis]


How about additional background for the world that is Amber... Give us some places we can use, give us tons of plot hooks, describe what Zelazny hasn't.

I am not talking about re-writing canon here, simply to give me new ideas based on the Zelazny world. Give me tons of Chaos houses, noble Amber families, Golden Circle shadows, and backstories, names, places, landmarks, history! I'll do the discarding and modification myself...

If anyone looks for AmberDRPG material online, you only need to look as far as PBeM web pages to see a version of Amber you haven't thought of, yet. Just imagine reading about a bunch of things you could use for background (or disregard at will) without having to go through defunct web pages or campaign synopsis.

+I'd like to see a whole chapter dedicated to how King Oberon used to rule Amber. The importance of nobility and courtly intrigue at the Amber Court. How well the people of the Realm fair now that Random's in charge. The last two pages of that chapter could even have a small paragraph for each elder amberite as a ruler and what their kingdoms would be like, as well as their policies etc...

+Another chapter on Amber (the realm itself) and its reflections, Rebma and Tir-na Nog'th... Possible Histories I can choose from, etc... Important NPCs with only one set of stats each (I'll be adapting them to my campaign myself, thank you very much). Factions, Magic and technology there... Laws of physics etc...

+Yet another chapter on the Courts of Chaos... All background info, canonical events, additional events made up for more interest. Interesting NPCs, of course!

+An entire chapter on the Golden Circle. Shadows that are canon, new Shadows that aren't... Politics, factions, people and places. Economy, trade, warfare...? Nah, we can wing that! Give me important NPCs, which Shadows a PC could find Elders in and why.

I say sticking to canon is something we wanna do some of the time (they should mark pages with canonical info with a certain color/symbol) but cool new ideas and the possibility of expanding on a theme or threat based on passages from the novels is what I would like to see in the 2nd edition! (something I really enjoyed in Erick's ADRP and SK were the campaign ideas, very general, yet full of possibilities!)

QUOTE]

I chopped some of the bits out of the quote to highlight the bits I have issues with, trust it doesn't alter the meaning in any way.
There is a real risk that if you follow this path a second edition will just become a background source book. The most effective and interesting games I have seem are those that have their own backgrounds and world. One the GM and palyers love and not where its all in the source material.
A strength of the original rule books was that there were myriad variations on a lot of the background , notably the NPCs. Even if you choose not to use these NPCs and I can't imagine any DM lifting one as is from the rule book. You do see how the rules can be expanded and interpreted.
If you had background on the Houses in Amber and Chaos etc there is a risk that Amber would change into something more akin to some of the other novel based games such, I am thinking of the way Elric developed based on Runequest, or the way the various AD&D campaign worlds kind of solidified round core source books. I fnd these types of games lack longevity. The reason why AD&D has hung round as long as it has is that the core rule system is devoid of any campaign. Its a genre (genre independednt games int eh GURPS mould go a step too far for me) but it doesn't tie the GM down to one world.
I would like any second edition to have a core rules book that explained mechanics, using Amber as a genre, and then a source book where various flavours of the backgound could be expressed with enough space to give competing views. I am reallly not bothered by canon or non-canon because it's the vision of the GM that matters in an Amber game. the canon stuff is already in a book, well 10 books and a few short stories.... and I doubt whether any other authors will do it any better than Zelazny did himself.

I also agree with Otha that a lot of what is accepted as canon because it comes from the original rule books is in fact Erick's extension of canon. As such it s good stuff but shouldn't be treated as divine immutable prose.

Rules wise Amber is light. So more detail on options int eh mechanics is a good plan, alternative magical systems, partial powers etc , but all offered as options on the base structure. I mean lets face it the base structure of Amber game mechanics is only about 4 sides of A4 so you would have to fill the book with something. Erick's use of examples is excellent and they need to be kept or replicated. I do think you could extend it to take situations from the book and show how these would be handled in the mechanics. I think that would be a nice hook.

[Nihilistic Mind]

If you had background on the Houses in Amber and Chaos etc there is a risk that Amber would change into something more akin to some of the other novel based games such, I am thinking of the way Elric developed based on Runequest, or the way the various AD&D campaign worlds kind of solidified round core source books. I fnd these types of games lack longevity. The reason why AD&D has hung round as long as it has is that the core rule system is devoid of any campaign. Its a genre (genre independednt games int eh GURPS mould go a step too far for me) but it doesn't tie the GM down to one world.

To tell you the truth, I hadn't imagined anyone would use an entire background sourcebook or what it would do to the Meta-Amber universe. A game system is nice, and options are nice too, but a proposed background with plot hooks, scenarios and interpretations is just something I'm more interested in.

I already use the system as is, so unless things were going to change or bring something to my games, why would I bother with a second edition?

Background info, as I imagine it, would bring new ways to see the Amber universe as a game. A lot of ideas and things I can use on the fly if I suddenly need a Minor House of Chaos, or a Shadow I hadn't imagined yet, rather than an immutable background developped by people who were not Zelazny himself.

I guess this stems from the fact that I drop things that I'm uninterested in from game backgrounds, and utilize the things that strike my fancy... I wasn't imagining a defined background to replace the Amber Books as canon. Amber is already well-defined by Zelazny, additional info would just give more possibilities to a universe we're very familiar with.
This is not a Star Wars sourcebook that gets approved by the continuity team and becomes canon the day it is in print... I certainly wouldn't see it as such.

[Uncle Twitchy]

You could always use Krulik's Complete Amber Sourcebook.

[Nihilistic Mind]

You could always use Krulik's Complete Amber Sourcebook.

I've never come across it or heard anything good about it...

[gabriel_ss4u]

Kinda like a highlander sequel?

[Trevelyan]

Kinda like a highlander sequel?

I'm feeling a sense of deja vu...

[gabriel_ss4u]

running gag @ this point