Getting over the "Diceless" barrier

[kogi.kaishakunin]

Other than AMBER what other 100% diceless RPG is there?

[The Yann Waters]

Other than AMBER what other 100% diceless RPG is there?

Nobilis, Marvel Universe RPG, Active Exploits, and a few other titles here and there. Of course, if you include card-based games as well, the list is quite a bit longer.

[kogi.kaishakunin]

ok WOW Guess I have been in an RPG cave somewhere. During my search for info on Diceless games and Amber in particular I found the sad news about Eric Wujcik's passing. I will type up a lengthy posting on his OBIT site but for a simple sum up; Eric and Palladium games was the catalyst for propelling me into Gaming, Art, Writing, and Story Telling in general. TMNT and Heroes Unlimited brought together all the things I thought were "NEAT" into a hobby er PASSION that keeps me going twenty years later. For my love of all things Gaming I have Eric to thank too bad I never got to tell him personally.

Sorry about sticking this into the wrong forum topic, but i figured it has been so long since his passing that no one would have read it in the right one.

BTW I have been toying with a diceless game for some time I will have to revisit Eric's Amber for some helpful hints toward what I want to accomplish. If I can find a copy... Even the Torrents are dry. sigh.. guess its "drive through RPG"

[The Yann Waters]

Sorry about sticking this into the wrong forum topic, but i figured it has been so long since his passing that no one would have read it in the right one.

Well, there's a sticky thread on that topic at the top of this forum, in case you happened to miss it.

[Lady Vivamus]

If I can find a copy... Even the Torrents are dry. sigh.. guess its "drive through RPG"

I managed to find a copy to torrent, but it was tough and took forever. Now that I've had a chance to look it over, though, I think I'm going to spend the money and find an actual book copy.

[RPGPundit]

Other than AMBER what other 100% diceless RPG is there?

None that are any good.

RPGPundit

[RPGPundit]

Dudes, save yourself time and effort, and just get the PDF legitimately. Its DEFINITELY worth whatever tiny price they're charging!

RPGPundit

[Lady Vivamus]

Dudes, save yourself time and effort, and just get the PDF legitimately. Its DEFINITELY worth whatever tiny price they're charging!

RPGPundit

Oh, I agree, especially now that I've seen it and gotten to know how cool it is. It's just that about the time I decided I wanted it my car threw a timing belt and I was more than a little short on cash-- scraping for necessities, couldn't really justify any expense that was not one. And I'm a terribly impatient person, so I went ahead and downloaded it. Now that I've got it, as I said, I'm seriously thinking about spending the money to find a real copy. Totally worth it.

[The Yann Waters]

None that are any good.

*cough*

Opinions differ on that, naturally enough.

[RPGPundit]

*cough*

Opinions differ on that, naturally enough.

Yes, there is a spectrum of opinion, beginning at "My opinion" and ending at "the wrong opinion".

RPGPundit

[Croaker]

Agreed. I never understood how people could not realize that anything other than my opinion was wrong or, at best, misguided.

[Corvus]

Yes, there is a spectrum of opinion, beginning at "My opinion" and ending at "the wrong opinion".

RPGPundit

My Everway box's opinion is that you're full of it.  I have no personal opinion on the matter, though, tends to be safer on the internet that way.

[RPGPundit]

Everway isn't diceless in the strictest sense; but ok, if you really wanted to include it, we'll say Everway is an exception as a game that's not bad. Its not GREAT, either, mainly because of a few choices the author made that sent it too far into dirty-smelly-hippie land, but its not bad.

RPGPundit

[finarvyn]

I think what is missing in the whole "which diceless game is better" argument is the notion that
1. Erick did it first
2. Erick had a master plan about how to balance the game
3. Erick made his game simple.

Most of the diceless games out there take advantage of what he did and try to springboard off of the concept. When ADRP first came out, nobody really thought that a diceless game would work. Now it's an accepted niche among the RPG market.

1. When Erick put ADRP together, there was no model from which to pattern his design. If the game is flawed (and I really like it the way it is) then it would be a result of him being such a pioneer in the gaming industry. Yet it's a very versitile system, and one I've used to run fantasy, modern, and space games in addition to the standard Amber universe.
2. Game balance in ADRP is quite amazing, in my opinion. Having characters balance the points is wonderful because (if the GM runs the game correctly) players really can't min/max the system. Spending a lot of points on something hopefully gives a great benefit, and skimping on the points gives almost nothing. The game balance automatically corrects itself.
3. At its roots, ADRP is very simple. Four basic stats. A few key powers to buy. One hundred points to spend. Other games try to incorporate layers of complexity which really aren't needed. You don't need to sub-divide stats, but you can. You don't need to use standard, advanced, and exalted powers, but you can. The game is so simple in concept that you can build any extras onto the core framework.

That's why I like Amber, and why I'm not as big a fan of the other Diceless games. Many of the other games seem to add layers of terminology and complexity that I don't need or want in my campaign. Many of the other games seem to be constructed specifically for a specific campaign world, which I might not want to run. Nobilis, for example, just seems confusing in its verbiage (and I own both 1E and 2E along with the LARP version just to give it an honest try).

Anyway, just my two cents.

[RPGPundit]

I think what is missing in the whole "which diceless game is better" argument is the notion that
1. Erick did it first
2. Erick had a master plan about how to balance the game
3. Erick made his game simple.

Most of the diceless games out there take advantage of what he did and try to springboard off of the concept. When ADRP first came out, nobody really thought that a diceless game would work. Now it's an accepted niche among the RPG market.

1. When Erick put ADRP together, there was no model from which to pattern his design. If the game is flawed (and I really like it the way it is) then it would be a result of him being such a pioneer in the gaming industry. Yet it's a very versitile system, and one I've used to run fantasy, modern, and space games in addition to the standard Amber universe.
2. Game balance in ADRP is quite amazing, in my opinion. Having characters balance the points is wonderful because (if the GM runs the game correctly) players really can't min/max the system. Spending a lot of points on something hopefully gives a great benefit, and skimping on the points gives almost nothing. The game balance automatically corrects itself.
3. At its roots, ADRP is very simple. Four basic stats. A few key powers to buy. One hundred points to spend. Other games try to incorporate layers of complexity which really aren't needed. You don't need to sub-divide stats, but you can. You don't need to use standard, advanced, and exalted powers, but you can. The game is so simple in concept that you can build any extras onto the core framework.

That's why I like Amber, and why I'm not as big a fan of the other Diceless games. Many of the other games seem to add layers of terminology and complexity that I don't need or want in my campaign. Many of the other games seem to be constructed specifically for a specific campaign world, which I might not want to run. Nobilis, for example, just seems confusing in its verbiage (and I own both 1E and 2E along with the LARP version just to give it an honest try).

Anyway, just my two cents.

I agree with everything you said here.

RPGPundit