Getting over the "Diceless" barrier

[RPGPundit]

It astounds me how much this is still an issue for some gamers.  Gamers really love their dice...

RPGPundit

[Corvus]

It astounds me how much this is still an issue for some gamers.  Gamers really love their dice...

Could be one of any number of reasons.  It's possible some players feel that "playing pretend" is for children and the presence of dice "protects" them and makes their game "adult".  Others may fear or dislike what they see as pure GM fiat and again feel "protected" by the dice.  Still others may enjoy the randomness dice introduce.

[Jason Coplen]

Others may fear or dislike what they see as pure GM fiat and again feel "protected" by the dice.  Still others may enjoy the randomness dice introduce.

I always found the protection from GM fiat a weak argument. The GM can dick you over regardless if dice are used or not. If you feel the GM does that, why continue playing that game?

I don't use much dice when I game, which puts me at odds with most gamers I know. Many games have the dice rolling like it's going out of style or it's a craps game in a Vegas casino. This breaks down to personal preference. At the rate I'm going I might GM totally diceless within a few years. I don't mind dice rolling, but I get bored with the rolling quickly - it's why I can't handle D&D dungeon crawls, or any die pool system that uses more than 5 dice, or any game where everything is decided by the roll of the dice. Dice are fine and dandy, but I want to role-play more than I want to dice play.

[Lawbag]

I think it comes down to the actual number of diceless games around. By diceless, do you also include those RPGs that chose the route of using playing cards as being diceless as well?

Following on from this, you could say the diceless gaming is a minority spinoff from the RPG game because not only are there so few games, but of those most are poorly executed.

[Imperator]

I have no particular beef against diceless, as long there are some rules. That said, I like to roll dice.

[Corvus]

I always found the protection from GM fiat a weak argument. The GM can dick you over regardless if dice are used or not. If you feel the GM does that, why continue playing that game?

I agree, it is a weak argument, but I've heard it numerous times from people who aren't willing to hear other opinions on the subject.  Most recently from my last gaming group.  Thankfully my new group seem much more trusting and openminded.

[Jason Coplen]

I agree, it is a weak argument, but I've heard it numerous times from people who aren't willing to hear other opinions on the subject.  Most recently from my last gaming group.  Thankfully my new group seem much more trusting and openminded.

Congrats on the new group!

[Kyle Aaron]

Gamers really love their dice...

Of course. A roleplaying game without dice is like a porno without a money-shot. It's still what it is, but there's something missing.

Once you take away the dice you may as well put on a leotard and do improv theatre.

[Croaker]

You've got a heckuva deathwish

[RPGPundit]

Of course. A roleplaying game without dice is like a porno without a money-shot. It's still what it is, but there's something missing.

Once you take away the dice you may as well put on a leotard and do improv theatre.

Haven't seen you around in a while, Kyle.

Amber is sort of like doing Improv Theatre... in the Borgia Court.

RPGPundit

[Croaker]

O_O
Incredible.

I would have sweared you would tear him to shreads and call him a swine and all

[Gronan of Simmerya]

I like rolling dice.  Sometimes because I like the randomness, and sometimes just because I think rolling dice is fun.

That's part of the reason so many late 60s and early 70s games, not only D&D but such wargames as Chainmail, DGUTS, Tractics, and others, have such various kludgy dice rolling systems.

Rolling dice is fun, and rolling dice in weird ways at various times is more fun.

[RPGPundit]

O_O
Incredible.

I would have sweared you would tear him to shreads and call him a swine and all

Nah, I know Kyle, and he's not a Swine. He was just trying to troll/joke with us.

RPGPundit

[RPGPundit]

I like rolling dice.  Sometimes because I like the randomness, and sometimes just because I think rolling dice is fun.

That's part of the reason so many late 60s and early 70s games, not only D&D but such wargames as Chainmail, DGUTS, Tractics, and others, have such various kludgy dice rolling systems.

Rolling dice is fun, and rolling dice in weird ways at various times is more fun.

I LOVE dice, but Amber as a game is also brilliant and you don't miss the dice after about the first ten minutes. My players have often said that after playing a session of Amber for an hour or two, they just plain forget that other RPGs use dice.

On a related note, I think another problem that has emerged lately is that people who've tried "diceless" games other than Amber could have been scared off by that too, since pretty well every other diceless game I've seen is really pretty sub-par.

RPGPundit

[JongWK]

Upon meeting Amber for the first time, you can separate players in two categories:

1) Those who played RPGs before.
2) Those who didn't.

The first group is used to rolling dice or similar mechanics. Of course they are going to be puzzled by Amber. It's like the first time people meet an electric car, having used combustion-engine cars all their lives up until that moment: Where's the gas tank? Why is the engine so silent? How the hell is this car working?

Once people understand how things work in the new car and take it for a test drive or two, fear of the unknown vanishes. The same thing happens with Amber.

The second group is a minority, and I suspect they have an easier time accepting the game mechanics. You are giving a teenager the keys to his first car! Who the hell cares how the engine works!?

Of course, some rookies think they are Michael Schumacher and crash their shiny Amber car into a tree at 100 MPH, but flaming wrecks are not the point of this post...