Favorite versions of characters

[finarvyn]

In the ADRP rulebook, Erick typically offered three different version of each character. I'm curious which you like best, or how you create your own vision of the Elders.

1) Do you use the best version or middle version or worst verson for all characters?

2) Or, do you cherry-pick versions you like (such as using the best version for Brand but maybe the middle one for Bleys, or wharever).

3) Or, do you ignore Erick's versions entirely and create your own from scratch?

I've found that using a mathematical average of all of Erick's versions leads to some interesting games, but I tend to choose one of Erick's that best seems to represent how I see each character.

I particulary like some of Erick's catch-phrases (e.g. Champion of Amber or Living Trump or whatever) and find that those help capture the essence of how that character might fit into my campaign. It help

What do you do?

[Tolknor]

Looking back over my papers for the Jeweled Amber game it seems i took a middle road on most of the Elders.  

Ben i made a bit tougher in Warfare and Strength.  I also had him develop trump artistry during the game, since in the aftermath of Patternfall and seeing Brand and Merlin with the talent, he saw it as far too useful a talent to be without.  I did not use the power words system as the book shows it, though 'Power Words" could be gained through research and adventure, so he had a number of them regardless.  

Bleys, the main stalking horse of the players, i gave the middle version as well though with vastly different artifacts.   I also gave him a reputation for trouble making in the post-Patternfall period and a massive drinking problem due to failed ambitions.  This made him a useful but often unreliable aide to the players.  Though, throughout, he remained loyal to Random.

Flora was the other Elder the players dealt with a lot.  I cast her in the 'Power on the Rise' model.  Also, having spent Eric's reign in favor, in the social blur of Court, and coming out on good terms with Random after Patternfall, she became the Social Director of the Courts of Amber.  As such she was often in the politics of amber and the players went to her often for advice.  She also became something of the Interior Decorator of Amber as well, though unofficially!

[Artifacts of Amber]

When I write up my elders I try to keep them close to the book (Series not game book) but with some could be's in there. Admittedly the series doesn't give us tons of info on most of the Elders but I don't feel a need for them all to be equal. Since I use a modified Amber system, still very recognizable but with smallish tweeks, I can mold the Elders to suit my image of them. I have some Elder's built on less points than the players get to create their chaqacters with. The characters don't know this so the Elders still seem powerful and foreboding. The Elder's secrets are there own. I don't make up things to keep them equa with each other or the youngers.

I think playing the Elders is more what I try to focus on, what each Elder is truely like. The mechanics and write ups are not too big an issue. I want the players to feel like they may one day reach the same levels as the elders. I don't want them always living under/in their shadow (no pun intended).

Thanks

[Tolknor]

In both my games, though the Jeweled Amber one is fresher in my memory, i tried as much as a i could to keep most the elders at arms reach from the players.  If a player dealt with an Elder it was a big deal.  

 I created a level of nobles that the players usually dealt with.  Random's Herald.  The King Secretary.  Benedict's Chief of Staff or Deputy Chief of Staff.    I also had Bleys, at Random's command, be the younger generations 'contact' with the Elders.  Fiona had to keep asking players who they were.  Not that she wasn't aware who they were of course, just that they shouldn't be bothering her.

Beyond the game stats another thing i kept in mind was Elder and character politics.  Who was in favor, how much in favor, and how much in favor in relation to how much someone else was in favor.  Players were often surprised that their suite of rooms had been moved two floors down and a tower away. Instead of 5 rooms, a bathroom, and a balcony, they found they had 2 rooms and shared a bathroom with a member of the Amber Guard.  One player started sleeping in the Library when he discovered his suite of rooms was now one cell on the dungeon level with a chamber pot.  I told him to cheer up, at least the cell didn't have bars on it.

[RPGPundit]

I always pick and choose from each option.

RPGPundit

[Croaker]

Same thing here.

[jibbajibba]

in campaigns I don't use them.
I find a large cast of uber powerful NPCs a detriment to the independence of the PCs. Just a personal preference.

In con games I include them to provide context

[Panjumanju]

One of the first things I do in planning a campaign, before I even come up with a story, is sit down and decide what type of character each of the elder Amberites will be. I collect bits of information and statistics from various versions listed and come up with something evocative and unique, to keep players on their toes. Too many of them are overly familiar with the book at this point, so I can't just pick one. Still, I find it a rewarding process.

//Panjumanju

[Tolknor]

Too many of them are overly familiar with the book at this point, so I can't just pick one.
//Panjumanju

This was one of the troubles i had as well.  Since my first campaign of ADRP, in early 1990s, was run in a game store i was working at, often during store hours when no customers were around, each of the players bought both game books, and like good rule lawyers, tried to pin me down for details.  They also tried figuring out which versions i was running by what the elders did.  I had a heck of a time slapping that out of them.  I told them they were welcome to any information they read in the books as long as they understood that all of it was  'gossip, the word on the street, the skinny, propaganda,  what Dame Margot heard, the word around the campfire, ".  Or, in other words, totally useless and almost certainly wrong.   I played the elders as powerful people not to piss off and to avoid entanglements with.  

Further confusing both the characters and the players was the existence, in print and in the Amber Library of both Corwin's chronicle and Merlin's story. While i used the first nearly canonically, the latter was mostly fiction though it included elements from some of Merlin's life and adventures that he added to for literary style.   This irritated the players greatly but i had both Corwin and Merlin laugh about it every time the characters mentioned the books.   I pointed out to them, concerning Merlin's books, and as i have seen elsewhere mentioned, to consider them a character diary, with some embellishments added at the end.  

Furthermore, concerning books, i had a lot of players want to at least visit books they had read.  LotR, Black Company, Dune, etc,etc,etc.  To this i had Bleys tell them that the reason the Library had such a vast collection of such books is because they were not fictional novels.   They were Travel Guides.  Eventually they tired of the book worlds and got on with the business at hand.

Fun and games

[finarvyn]

They also tried figuring out which versions i was running by what the elders did.

I don't think my players have done this yet, but maybe they are more subtle than I give them credit. I may have to watch for this.

[RPGPundit]

in campaigns I don't use them.
I find a large cast of uber powerful NPCs a detriment to the independence of the PCs. Just a personal preference.

In con games I include them to provide context

I think that not using the elders in some capacity robs amber of one of its central qualities as a game: a large network of very detailed NPCs with full personalities, and a web of alliances and rivalries, with patrons of differing power levels.

RPGPundit

[Artifacts of Amber]

I use the Elder's despite their power. Becuase of their power they have other concerns or often don't feel threatened by things like a younger is or would be. I use them for context and to provide ready made NPC's I can easliy step into. I don't feel a need to know exactly what they are doing just that it is bigger and more important (at least in thier mind) than what the  youngers are up to.

I like having them around as the parental figure. It helps the youngers feel like they ave grown when they get to the point the can face them. I don't run my elders at as high a point as used in the book, at least not allof them. Their points are across the board with one or two even below what the players had to spend. Of course they don't know that

[RPGPundit]

Yeah, I truly don't get the fear of using Elders. It must come from a phobia based on too many bad sessions of Vampire, with GM-immunity NPCs that were only there to steal all your show.

RPGPundit

[jibbajibba]

I think that not using the elders in some capacity robs amber of one of its central qualities as a game: a large network of very detailed NPCs with full personalities, and a web of alliances and rivalries, with patrons of differing power levels.

RPGPundit

I am more than calpable of creating my own NPCs and afactions and allowing the PCs to buy patronage and the like.

In my last web based game there were 9 players, 20 - 30 named NPCs in Amber and maybe another dozen referenced or met by the PCs in Chaos or shadow. A dozen noble houses and 2 races of demons.
The difference is they were mine and the PCs we more powerful than 80% of them.

I just don't like a big cast of uber tough NPCs drawn from outside my own fiction. I have always been liek this. I played James Bond 007 for years when I was a kid and I never had Bond show up. He existed, and the PCs just missed him a few times but I never used him as a foil to save the day when they f88ked up or to show them up.
The PCs are the stars

[Tolknor]

I just don't like a big cast of uber tough NPCs drawn from outside my own fiction.
The PCs are the stars

I like the way you put that.  I certainly used all the Elders in my game but i tried not to have them get too involved with the players partly because i didn't want them to rely on them or build up a belief that if they messed up, they could always call good ole Bleys to swoop in and clean things up.    I liked letting the PCs know that unless they really messed up badly they were on their own.   I had plenty of other NPCs who were tough enough to make life frolicsome enough for the players.

Also, when it came to the book children of Oberon, I think it was like having a room that only got used for formal occasions.  You didn't go messing up that room or gramma would come out and scold ya.  If you did something that Benedict had to set aside the defense of Amber to come fix, you expected a scolding at least.