He's Baaaack...

[RPGPundit]

I've noticed that in many Amber campaigns, some of my own over the years most definitely not excluded, there is a habit of Elder Amberites dying and then "coming back", either they didn't really die, or only a shadow died, or a shadow or pattern ghost somehow becomes "real" or its "Bleys from an alternate pattern" or whatever... but I've noticed this tends to happen MUCH more often then what you'll see in most other campaigns, maybe even moreso than in superhero campaigns.

Has this happened in your campaigns?
Is it all just because of the Caine thing?

Do you think its good? Good only in extreme moderation? Sucks ass under all circumstances? What?

RPGPundit

[Malleus Arianorum]

I like it when Amberites fake their own deaths or mysteriously disappear. I don't like the resurection-y options though. Actually, I like Corwin better for amazing disapperences. My players buy into the idea that he's gone amnesia, whereas whenever Caine disappears they just crack jokes.

One thing I'd like to do more of is having a shapeshifter play several NPCs. It's kinda along the same lines.

On the other hand our group has probably done fake deaths to death -- our standard greeting is "[Player's name]! I thought you were dead!" followed by a bunch of Amber injokes.

[gabriel_ss4u]

One thing I'd like to do more of is having a shapeshifter play several NPCs. It's kinda along the same lines.

Cool idea, devious even. I like it... may I?

[Nihilistic Mind]

It's true that I've seen it done a lot and I like it when it brings substance to the game.

I'm sure I've brought an NPC back to the surface of the game after people thought he'd died or whatever. But I wouldn't rob a PC of his triumph over an NPC unless there was some serious bad stuff PC/good stuff NPC and a good reason for it... I can't recall an instance where I've used the "Amberites are tough to kill, so you didn't really kill him" thing, so I mustn't have abused it.

Maybe in the next chapter of my current campaign, who knows...

[Malleus Arianorum]

Cool idea, devious even. I like it... may I?

Lol. It's not my idea to give. Ever heard of the author Roger Zelazny?

[Arref]

I've noticed that in many Amber campaigns, some of my own over the years most definitely not excluded, there is a habit of Elder Amberites dying and then "coming back", either they didn't really die, or only a shadow died, or a shadow or pattern ghost somehow becomes "real" or its "Bleys from an alternate pattern" or whatever... but I've noticed this tends to happen MUCH more often then what you'll see in most other campaigns, maybe even moreso than in superhero campaigns.

Has this happened in your campaigns?
Is it all just because of the Caine thing?

Do you think its good? Good only in extreme moderation? Sucks ass under all circumstances? What?

RPGPundit

This is a tricky element because it can become a joke rather than a slippery bit of plot twist. The more subtle it is, the better.

I've included 'fake deaths' and mysterious disappearances. In both cases, I'm not expecting Players to take them as gospel. It would be more interesting if the PCs are actually 'in on' the deception to promote intrigue by the Crown or close family.

"Yeah, I saw the body. It sure looked like Bleys."

But as a GM I want to enforce death as a consequence and tragedy. I want the legend of Eric's sacrifice to ring strong. Toying with death and 'surprise returns' is a cliche that undercuts drama and GM credibility.

[Uncle Twitchy]

Bringing the established dead characters back -- Finndo, Osric, Eric, Brand, and so on -- was a trope I used a lot in my very first campaign, which was very much a "throw every idea hinted at by Erick in the book into the mix" kind of conglomerate. Much fun was had, but much silliness, too.

The second time I ran a straight, by-the-Zelazny-Amber campaign, I went for a more subtle approach, only bringing in characters who were referenced by a number rather than a name back. ("I am Gaheris, Oberon's first born, and I will swear allegiance to you, Random, for the sake of the realm. But have no doubt that should you prove a threat to this realm, I will take this throne from you.")

I am preparing to run a new campaign using both series as my foundation (a first for me -- I usually ignore the Merlin books), and I fully intend to keep those who were dead in the books dead in the campaign. Caine will not be coming back, though everyone expects him to do so. Eric's sacrifice, as Arref suggests, will remain an example of a consequence for playing with powers you do not fully understand.

Again, in my first campaign I used Shape Shifters disguising themselves as everyone and anyone quite a lot. the second time I didn't use it at all. This time, I've got a group of young upstart Chaos Lords who want to make a name for themselves as my main antagonists -- so you can guess what I'll be doing with this cliché this time.

That's right.

Only one of them will actually use the whole "disguise myself as someone else" motif. I plan to give each one a signature motif. Oh, and a power source and patron animal that gives their trumps a blue background with a silver griffin. And they'll all look identical to the player characters that I had in my original campaign, so that should mess with those players who played in that game.

But getting back to this particular issue -- I generally operate under the idea that if a PC sees a dead body, then that body is, indeed, dead. Yeah, I know, what about Caine killing his Shadow-self? Meh, says I. It's been done.

[jibbajibba]

Nicer idea is to use an NPC to shapeshift themselves into the role of someone who is dead but everyone thinks must be coming back.
Scene 1 the death of Corwin at the hands of an unknown assasin
Scene 4 Corwin turns up to assit the players, explains that the guy they think is Random is really a Chaos Lord and pursuades them to mount an attack on him. Corwin learnt of the plot and faked his own death to investigate further.
Scene 6 Corwin turns out to be the Chaos Assasin that killed the real Corwin back in Scene 1. Random is dead , all but 2 of the PCs are dead and Benedict and Gerrard are hard on their heels for their earlier regicide.
Lovely....

[Uncle Twitchy]

I am so using that in my upcoming campaign.

[jibbajibba]

To be honest if I am playing a 'baddie' I nearly always try and leave some small calling card of one of my oponents at each of my crimes. Rape the queen of Bergma ... leave a silver rose next to the corpse, kill the Random's daughter leave a trump of her with a Dolphin on the back, yeah you might end up with a few extra enemies but hey if you are going to sin, sin big and often I say.

[Nihilistic Mind]

Nicer idea is to use an NPC to shapeshift themselves into the role of someone who is dead but everyone thinks must be coming back.
Scene 1 the death of Corwin at the hands of an unknown assasin
Scene 4 Corwin turns up to assit the players, explains that the guy they think is Random is really a Chaos Lord and pursuades them to mount an attack on him. Corwin learnt of the plot and faked his own death to investigate further.
Scene 6 Corwin turns out to be the Chaos Assasin that killed the real Corwin back in Scene 1. Random is dead , all but 2 of the PCs are dead and Benedict and Gerrard are hard on their heels for their earlier regicide.
Lovely....

Lol. I like...
In my head I was going 'scene 5, the PCs take this opportunity to kill Corwin before anyone else knows he's still alive. Then consider killing Random anyway.'
... hehehe.

[Malleus Arianorum]

Amber + balls?

Wow! You must run some fun games! :win: