Erick Wujcik's Greatest Error?

[finarvyn]

The next question to ask them, over on that mailing list, should be why they've consistently failed to communicate at all with either the Amber fandom in general, or with this forum (the Official Amber DRPG forum) despite my repeated overtures to them?

I think I read somewhere that they planned to open their own forum and as such didn't want to start discussion elsewhere. That might explain why they don't come here.

As to the larger question, why they have failed to communicate with the Amber community in general, I really don't get it. I keep hearing that these guys are huge Amber fans, so they must be aware of the places where other Amber fans hang out. I mean, two years is a really long time to expect fans to sit and wait without giving updates.

[Stormwind]

To be honest, the 'why' is, in my opinion, largely irrelevant.

Either they will publish a second edition, or they won't, ... only time will tell and anything else is simply speculation, and in my opinion, is not particularly constructive.

The more important matter that has been bought up here is what, if anything, can we do to revive or encourage growth in the Amber community. Unfortunately, I don't have a definitive answer to that, but running high quality and enjoyable Amber games has to be a good step in the right direction, even if it is a small step.

Just my 2c worth.

[ikay]

As posted to the Amber Mailing List:

Hi there! Sorry to intrude on the conversation, but which mailing list is that?

[RPGPundit]

They've apparently been planning (and failing to deliver) a lot of stuff over the past two years. That might be a clue to them that they really ought to rely on help from all the fans who'd be more than willing to help.

Also, making separate Amber forums is probably a dumb idea. This place had Erick's official sanction, and is the most active Amber forum still in operation, and as owner of this site I'd be willing to do all kinds of things to accomodate them; they'd have an instant access to a couple of thousand gamers through theRPGsite, which would at least give them a place to start.

RPGpundit

[gabriel_ss4u]

Imagine if you will, the phrase "I pulled a DbyD" as to refer to allowing the best of a campaign situation slip past you while you Plan and Plot and end up missing the storming of the castle walls.
"Oh, it looks like the other faction took throne while you wasted valuable time and ignored willing assets... you probably shouldn't show up for the coronation seeing as how your promises faded and you never delivered... DbyD!"
It can refer to any amount of various fax paus. (fau paus?)
anyhaw,
D by D, if you're out there listening, the administrator and alot of us others are asking for a post/info... morsel.
are ya there?
or do I start practicing my Carlos Mencia imitations?

[Jason D]

The next question to ask them, over on that mailing list, should be why they've consistently failed to communicate at all with either the Amber fandom in general, or with this forum (the Official Amber DRPG forum) despite my repeated overtures to them?

RPGPundit

I'm not speaking for them, but the general tone of this forum is rather negative regarding Diceless by Design and their inability to get a new edition out the door. The tone of this thread, for example, might be a good reason why they aren't posting here.

Also, making separate Amber forums is probably a dumb idea. This place had Erick's official sanction, and is the most active Amber forum still in operation, and as owner of this site I'd be willing to do all kinds of things to accomodate them; they'd have an instant access to a couple of thousand gamers through theRPGsite, which would at least give them a place to start.

RPGpundit

The Amber E-Mail List (http://leutheuser.com/amber/) has been around for something like 17 years or more, and most Amber DRPG fans have been using that all this time. Erick never made that an official mailing list, but it doesn't stop folks from regarding it as such.

People generally don't like change, and I'm sure that if the Amber List were to stop for some reason, someone would start a new one rather than migrate over to a new or existing forum.

I know Eric and Edwin, the DbD guys, and they are die-hard Amber fans. They're also people, and it's more than likely that they've been dealing with real-life stuff and haven't had the time to work on a new edition of Amber, just like Erick managed to put Phage Press and Amber out of his mind for the better part of a decade.

[finarvyn]

Also, making separate Amber forums is probably a dumb idea. This place had Erick's official sanction...

All I know is that, putting myself in their position, if I create a game I also want to be in control of my own forum rather than having someone else running the show. As a moderator you have certain controls that you don't get as a poster, and if you tick off the guy who runs "your" board it can turn on you in a heartbeat.

As far as Erick's "official sanction" goes for this or any other board, that doesn't really mean much anymore since Erick isn't around and he left others in charge of his game. I presume that the Guardians of Order forum got the same "official sanction" when they were going to try to publish ADRP as well. Those others don't have to follow his lead, and now I guess we wait to see which board is given an "official sanction" by Diceless By Design.

[RPGPundit]

The Amber Email list is fine and good, but there are certain things a forum can do that a mailing list just can't.

As for the attitude, trust me that if the DbyD guys had the common courtesy to respond to the countless messages I sent their way, and showed any indication to the general public at all that things were moving forward in any way, that attitude would change to one of trying to help them in every respect.

Just like Erick had, they would be given moderator status over the Amber forum.

As for "official sanction", as far as I know, this was the ONLY forum EVER given "Official" status by Erick Wujcik for the Amber game. GoO's forums were no doubt Guardians of Order's official forum, but they were not Erick Wujcik's Official forum.

Likewise, should Diceless by Design choose to go it alone, and not make use of all the foundation this forum has laid down for them just waiting to be taken advantage of, they could end up creating the "Edwin and Eric" official forums, but they would not be Erick Wujcik's Official Amber Forum.

Erick might have left DbyD in charge of his game, but he left ME in charge of the Amber RPG Forum. I leave it you to judge who's done a better job so far both in terms of keeping things going now that Erick is gone, and in terms of trying to reach out to the other guys to work together for Amber's future.

RPGPundit

[fizzbinn]

The next question to ask them, over on that mailing list, should be why they've consistently failed to communicate at all with either the Amber fandom in general

They do communicate with the Amber fandom.  Both Eric and Edwin attend at least two Ambercons every year, as well as other gaming conventions.  They both run a lot of games at the cons.

They've held at least two meetings/round-tables talking about some of their ideas and how they want to get input from Amber players.

Every time the question has come up on the Amber mailing list Edwin has replied promptly.

It's true they're not visible on this particular forum, but then this is the place the owner/administrator/moderator calls them "useless fucks".

Let's say someone was sick of those useless fucks over at Diceless by Design...

[gabriel_ss4u]

They do communicate with the Amber fandom.  Both Eric and Edwin attend at least two Ambercons every year, as well as other gaming conventions.  They both run a lot of games at the cons.

They've held at least two meetings/round-tables talking about some of their ideas and how they want to get input from Amber players.

Every time the question has come up on the Amber mailing list Edwin has replied promptly.

It's true they're not visible on this particular forum, but then this is the place the owner/administrator/moderator calls them "useless fucks".

Whatever, they said they'd post info on this forum, that was about 2 yrs. ago, so it makes them look like lying bastards... is that going to keep them from doing what they said? I see no effort on their part as they stated they'd update us. I'm sure they'd receive different comments if they do what they say they will. Hell, If I had the money & resources, I'd take it from them and get it up & moving asap.  But as I it is, I can only watch and wait... and that can be a long time from the 2 uneventful yrs. have shown thus far.

[jibbajibba]

I think this is getting a bit unfair and the last think we want this forum to become is an anti Amber 2e forum.
Pundit can be a bit, what is the word , undiplomatic at times but its only because he really does care about this topic.
This forum, and the rpgsite as a whole has a reputation for uncompromising critism and comment. Typically punches are not pulled and the thin skinned are perhaps at risk.
We (aside from fizzbinn, and welcome to the forum by the way) are having a go at a couple of blokes who's circumstance we know nothing of. It's entirely possible that DbD have undergone no end of personal or professional events and as we all know sometime Real Life can interfere in what we want to do.
If as FizzBinn says the guys have been to several Ambercons and have been active on the mailing list then fine. There really is no reason why this forum should mean anything to a new game. Yes we'd all be willing to help in any way possible but doesn't mean we have some sort of right to be involved.

So lets be +ve and wait to see if the situation improves and maybe FizzBinn can pass our enthusiam and best wishes onto Diceless by Design.

[SunBoy]

Actually, pretty funny people are wanting to be talked to by some guys in a thread called "EW's greatest error", where the "greatest error" was apparently giving the game to said guys...
And jibba's right, I'm pretty sure everyone in here would get behind DbD to the best of their abilities if asked...

One more thing, @Gabriel: Actually, yeah, I wouldn't want to come to a forum where I'm called a useless fuck, either, or at least if I perceive that's the forum's general attitude.

So, now, here's Uncle SunBoy's advice: Let us all cut the crap on the DbD guys, and if things are starting to stir again, maybe we'll have some news here after all.

And at Pundit, in public: Dude, we all know Erick was here and "sanctioned" the forum as his and his game's Official fanforum. That doesn't mean he did not approve of or that he disregarded the other Amber fan communities in the 'net, but it certainly gives you, personally (and the lot of us here, I like to think, to some degree) at least some little torch to carry. So use it wisely, let bygones be bygones, and say here, publicly, that you are, as the rest of us, committed to make Amber grow and thrive again. Right now, that means Diceless by Design, so let us support the guys. We haven't got anything to lose, but we've got a lot to gain.

After all, it worked for you with DWRPG, right?

Apologizing for calling the guys "useless fucks" would be nice, too, but that's probably not gonna happen...

[gabriel_ss4u]

...sigh.
Ok, and of course, you have a valid point Sunboy.
I recant the DbaD revolution I was starting from the wings of nefarious plotting having to do with my evil twin brother's manipulations, in the end it would have caused too much pandemonium when...
oh wait... dang, thought I was in an imaginary game there for a sec.

OK give 'em space.. and time right?
 ...how much?
I welcome any updates from them... are there any?

[Nihilistic Mind]

What I posted from the Amber Mailing List is the latest update.

SunBoy, you're absolutely right... It's just not uncommon for fans to bitch and moan then switch to gleeful excitement at the right time. Let's be honest and face the fact that there will not be an Amber revival for a long time to come.

Additionally, I can't imagine any of us would refrain from buying Amber 2.0 or whatever Edwin and Erik end up putting out, in spite of our current complaints. It's just how the industry works... Delays= bitching from the fans.

[finarvyn]

I think this is getting a bit unfair and the last think we want this forum to become is an anti Amber 2e forum.

Agreed. I think that fundamentally we're all on the same side and should band together to champion the new edition. I think the problem we're having is simply that we don't know who to contact to offer ideas or support or whatever.

we all know Erick was here and "sanctioned" the forum

Y'know Erick posted on my forum and "sanctioned" it as well, but I figure that once he's gone the torch doesn't burn any more.

Whatever, they said they'd post info on this forum, that was about 2 yrs. ago, so it makes them look like lying bastards...

I think we should be careful here. Did the DbD guys ever say that they would post here? I remember hearing from Erick that they were putting up their place-holder website, remember from somewhere that they wanted their own forum, and know that Pundit has invited them to join up here, but I'll be darned if I can remember either of the two guys actually posting here that they would be giving updates on this forum.