TheRPGSite

So I've seen your announcement, about Diceless By Design becoming the new publisher for Amber.

Are they actually going to publish a second edition? Have they got all the rights problems squared up with the Zelazny estates? What's the background on these guys as far as game design experience and loyalty to Amber?

Also I notice they were talking about Forums... could you please extend an invitation to the guys, that if they wanted to they could make THIS forum, since it is already the Official Amber RPG forum, into the Forum for their game design process, and would be welcome to link to it from their site?

I mean, it would guarantee them a potential pool of a few thousand readers/commentators/playtesters, and means they wouldn't have to worry about taking up their valuable time administrating the forum themselves (if they accepted, they could always be given "moderator" status on this particular subforum, just like you have).
I mean, on the other side of the coin, of course, they'd have to abide by the free speech values of this site, which means they'd have to be willing to see criticisms of them on the forum without being able to ban or censor those who did so. But I think any good designer would be OK with that, and at least they'd know that the Administration of this place is a HUGE Amber fan.

RPGPundit

Edited to add: or please, tell them to contact me if they have any other ideas or suggestions of how I or theRPGsite could help them out. And of course if they need a playtester!!

Quote from: RPGPunditSo I've seen your announcement, about Diceless By Design becoming the new publisher for Amber.

The new website is DicelessbyDesign.com (http://www.dicelessbydesign.com) -- a place-holder -- but it will be much more active by this time in July, 2007.

Quote from: RPGPunditAre they actually going to publish a second edition?

That is the plan. To publish a 2nd edition of Amber Diceless, as well as to put out other publications... and to revitalize the Amber Diceless community, both off-line and on-line.

Quote from: RPGPunditHave they got all the rights problems squared up with the Zelazny estates?

What's happening is still confidential, but things are proceeding according to plan.

Quote from: RPGPunditWhat's the background on these guys as far as game design experience and loyalty to Amber?

Edwin Voskamp has his own website, voskamp.com, and there's even a page specifically about his relationship with Amber Diceless: voskamp.com/hobbies/rpg/amber/ (http://voskamp.com/hobbies/rpg/amber/)

Edwin first played Amber with me back in 1993 (when I was play-testing Shadow Knight), and he's been at it ever since. Since then he's been to just about every Ambercon around (certainly in Detroit, Portland, Toronto and London, plus others), and he's Game Mastered extensively, as well as played with most of the prominent Amber Diceless Game Masters.

On the publishing end, Edwin did a lot of the heavy lifting involved in getting the latest Tekumel RPG out from Guardians of Order (see http://www.tekumel.com/). Edwin has also created other role-playing systems and worlds, most notably his recent Shadowworld Campaign (see http://www.shadowworld.org/). Plus, he's a successful high-tech business guy.

Eric Todd works in the electronic game biz, as Senior Development Director for Maxis, where he is currently the guy in charge of engineering for the upcoming Will Wright game, Spore (yes, Sims/SimCity Will Wright, yes, the infamous Spore)

Eric has been attending Ambercon in Detroit since before Amber Diceless was published, back when he was going to University of Michigan. Since then he's been to Ambercons and conventions with Amber Diceless all over the place, both as player and expert Game Master. A few years back he even did an Amber Diceless romp thought Europe, running games in England, France, Germany and The Netherlands.

The two of them are some of my very favorite role-players, and they've experienced most of the experimental role-playing that I've done in the last 15 years, including the really far-out stuff like Camp Messiah and Black Math. Each is capable of creating an entirely new (fun!) role-playing system+universe at the drop of a hat.

Frankly I was stunned that two such high-powered guys, both of whom have major full-time careers, approached me about publishing Amber. To put it mildly, they're not in it for the money. They're doing it purely out of love of Zelazny's Amber, Amber Diceless, and the Amber Diceless community.

I think you will be pleasantly surprised with what they have in mind.

Quote from: RPGPunditAlso I notice they were talking about Forums... could you please extend an invitation to the guys, that if they wanted to they could make THIS forum, since it is already the Official Amber RPG forum, into the Forum for their game design process, and would be welcome to link to it from their site?

I'll pass along the invitation.

Erick

If these guys are swine I'm going to laugh and laugh and laugh.

Quote from: Erick WujcikThe new website is DicelessbyDemand.com (http://www.dicelessbydemand.com) -- a place-holder -- but it will be much more active by this time in July, 2007.

I think Erick's fingers slipped ;) the website should be DicelessbyDesign.com (http://www.dicelessbydesign.com/)

Quote from: Saint&SinnerI think Erick's fingers slipped ;) the website should be DicelessbyDesign.com (http://www.dicelessbydesign.com/)

Caught me! Oops!

Erick

Quote from: Erick WujcikThat is the plan. To publish a 2nd edition of Amber Diceless, as well as to put out other publications...

An Amber Renaissance ?  Wonderful news !!! :D

I hope that this time the Amber franchise gets jump-started as it should. Seems like every time we think Amber is getting underway again, something happens. (Phasge Press grows stagnant, rumor of NPiA movie goes nowhere, rumor of Amber CCG goes nowhere, Roger dies, GoO has problems, Betancourt books flop 4/5 of the way through the series, and so on.) Rumors of "on again, off again" are frustrating.

I'm certainly not looking to blame anyone, but I really hope that it's "for real" this time. Amber is one of my favorite series of all time, and I really want to see it succeed! :D

(Also, I need more Amber t-shirts.)

I just came back from Ambercon UK. As usual, great fun but this year it was really noticeable how far the number of atrtendees has dwindled.

I really hope that a new edition will spark renewed interest and help boost the numbers back up again.

Keep us informed of developments!

Quote from: Erick WujcikThe new website is DicelessbyDesign.com (http://www.dicelessbydesign.com) -- a place-holder -- but it will be much more active by this time in July, 2007.

Erick's post was on June 22, and it's now July 25.  Not to be too impatient, but ... well, I'm impatient.  The Diceless By Design webpage looks pretty much unchanged from a month ago and I'm kind of hoping to see some updates. Anyone hear anything yet?

Quote from: finarvynErick's post was on June 22, and it's now July 25.  Not to be too impatient, but ... well, I'm impatient.  The Diceless By Design webpage looks pretty much unchanged from a month ago and I'm kind of hoping to see some updates. Anyone hear anything yet?

There are some things happening, but behind the scenes.

I'm expecting that we'll have a summit meeting in the next couple of weeks.

Thanks!

Erick

Quote from: Erick WujcikThere are some things happening, but behind the scenes.

I'm expecting that we'll have a summit meeting in the next couple of weeks.

Thanks!

Erick

A summit...cool :cool:   Will you bring back a report or will Edwin et al be available soon?

Quote from: Saint&SinnerA summit...cool :cool:   Will you bring back a report or will Edwin et al be available soon?

We've finally nailed down our meeting time and place. The weekend of August 11th, here in the San Francisco Bay Area.

Look for some news in the following week.

Erick

Quote from: Erick WujcikWe've finally nailed down our meeting time and place. The weekend of August 11th, here in the San Francisco Bay Area.

Look for some news in the following week.

Erick

Awesome. Please feel free to mention to them that I'm very interested in working with them in any way they might wish in helping them develop the game or promote it, both in my private personal capacity and on behalf of theRPGsite.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Erick WujcikWe've finally nailed down our meeting time and place. The weekend of August 11th, here in the San Francisco Bay Area...

The 'Amber Diceless Summit' turned out quite nicely, with most of our business discussion taking place late into the night on Friday, August 10th. Edwin and Eric now have to analyze a small mountain of paperwork (pretty much all the previous agreements, contracts and other legal documents previously generated by me and Phage Press), and we've all got tasks to complete.

Happily, we spent the rest of the weekend role-playing, in three parts:

1. After the business meeting was concluded, far after midnight, Edwin and Eric created characters for my on-going Quantum Time campaign, and I role-played them until after four in the morning.

2. The third of the Quantum Time mini-campaign sessions started a bit late on Saturday, August 11th (we didn't really get rolling until 3:00 pm), but ended at right around 8:00 pm... although the campaign itself wasn't really over, so we decided that I'll run a fourth session.

3. Since Edwin had an early morning flight on Sunday, I ran a late night pick-up game for Edwin, Eric, and Eric's girlfriend. It turned into a very nicely wrapped up session, where Eric's girlfriend played the mother of two terribly non-filial sons in a Mystic China scenario (the boys were 23-year-old twins; Edwin's character being a gambler obsessed with perfecting his 'system,' and Eric's character being a self-proclaimed Taoist Monk with a weakness for alcohol).

Erick

So, nothing really substantial to report about Amber, then.

But on the plus side much gaming fun was had by all.

So nothing concretely new yet?

Did you mention us?

RPGPundit

From the sound of it, they're still untangling the legal knots.

Quote from: OthaFrom the sound of it, they're still untangling the legal knots.

That is correct.

Erick

I'm really looking forward to it, I hope things wil go smoothly and nicely :)

Amen, brother.

I notice that the "placeholder" web page is still holding a place and nothing more. I really had hoped to hear something more concrete a little faster than this. Amber must really be the "smoke and mirrors" franchise of all time because it seems like whoever takes the helm we get the ship steering in circles.

Even if there is little to report, it would be nice to get some sense as to what and when we might see product written, forums created, input sought, or whatever. Some sort of "well, here's the general plan" with updates every month or two would be sort of nice.....

Especially, if they'd like real support from the Amber gaming community and fans of the chronicles in general!

I'm sure RPGPundit has extended an invitation for them to join the forums here by now ;)

I believe he asked eric to invite the new guys, but cant't say I'm sure.
Anyway, I agree, it was great to get this sense of motion and hope, and now, everything seems frozen anew. Reminds me of GooH :(

Hello all!

I'm Eric Todd, one of the folks behind Diceless By Design and the new edition of Amber. Edwin and I heard about the discussion here and would like to share a brief update. In short:

We're both highly devoted to creating a new edition of Amber DRPG and invigorating the Amber Community in the process. To this end, next month at AmberCon NW we'll be kicking off the new edition with an open discussion. At that point, we'll go over the general plan and gather input on what the new edition could or should be. The result of that face to face discussion will make its way on line and will form the starting point for forum discussion.

At the same time, we are currently in the process of sorting out the legal issues around publishing new Amber material. Considering Amber DRPG's history, it's important that this be clarified and cleanly resolved in a way that's agreeable to Erick, the Zelazny estate and Diceless By Design. We do not yet have a clear timeline for resolving this and until we do, we can't publish.

Finally, let me point out that both Edwin and I are full time professionals not full time game publishers. This has advantages and disadvantages. One disadvantage is that the amount of time we have to spend on this each week is limited and varies wildly from week to week. One upside is that we're under no pressure to make a living off the new edition. We can take the time to do this right.

Best Regards,

Eric

Glad to hear from you and that you guys are staying on track! I'm sure many people in the Amber DRPG community would be happy to help in any way they can.

Thanks for keeping us updated!

What can I add?
Nihilistic Mind has said it all.

Good luck, guys! I hope this'll run smoothly

Quote from: Eric ToddWe can take the time to do this right.

Best Regards,

Eric

Great news. Thanks for sharing.

Welcome aboard and know that you have my support, let me know if there's anything we can do for you; either that I can do personally, or that theRPGsite can do as a forum.

RPGPundit

Dare I ask... Are the prequel novels considered 'canon' for the new game?

(I haven't talked about those books with any big Amber RPG fans, so I don't know whether I'm treading dangerously here).

To all:

Thanks for the well-wishes and offers of assistance. If this goes at all well, we'll be taking you up on them.

Quote from: CabDare I ask... Are the prequel novels considered 'canon' for the new game? (I haven't talked about those books with any big Amber RPG fans, so I don't know whether I'm treading dangerously here).

Snap non-binding editorial decision: hell no!

-E

Quote from: Eric ToddSnap non-binding editorial decision: hell no!

-E

Thank God.  Frankly, I would rather that no new Amber game ever come out than that one be released where those fucking monstrosities (which are a literal affront to Zelazny's memory and last wishes) be included as canon.  If that's a condition the estate tries to place on you, say no, and fuck the whole project.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Eric ToddSnap non-binding editorial decision: hell no!

:D :D :D

Good answer!

Prequel novels?

Quote from: James McMurrayPrequel novels?

I guy I know mentioned them to me once but he was clearly just making shit up. He also tried to tell me that they made a sequal to Highlander :rolleyes:

I wanted to like those prequel books. I really did. I read the first two, but they just didn't grip me.

When I pick up one of Zelaznys amber novels I can't put it down again. And then I want to read the next one. Pick up one of those prequels... Well, its just not Zelazny. It doesn't read like Amber, the stories aren't right for it.

For me, Amber marks the peak of pulp-fantasy literature. They're amongst my very favourite books. The prequels, well, the guy did his best, but Zelaznys shoes were simply too big for him to step in to.

Quote from: TrevelyanI guy I know mentioned them to me once but he was clearly just making shit up. He also tried to tell me that they made a sequal to Highlander :rolleyes:

They did, but oddly enough the sequal was highlander 3.  Funny how that worked out, huh? ( yeah I know some purists hated 3, too, btu still... :>  )

Sargon, that whole Highlander thing is comical denial, and it's actually shared by most Highlander fans. (which would make it a forced reality)

Buuuuuuut...

WOW!
Awesome you guys @ DicelessbyDesign!

I can't wait to hear more.
I'm w/RGPUndit... if there is ANYTHING I can do to help.... what?
What can I do?
good question.
Lots of stuff, work like a slave for one, but I find that I echo a lot of thoughts on here.
I'd talk to RGPUndit and get his top 5 list and have a sit-down brain-storm w/ him & them, and since he doesn't know me that well yet, just include me too, I'll prove my worth in short time.

Like you all, we here do love Amber and would sacrifice for it too.

My brother works for United, perhaps I can arrange some tickets???

Quote from: SargonThey did, but oddly enough the sequal was highlander 3.  Funny how that worked out, huh? ( yeah I know some purists hated 3, too, btu still... :>  )

3 was okay, but it didn't really do anything that 1 hadn't done:

Pissed off older immortal? Check
Previous encouter where McLeod had escaped? Check
Kidnapped loved one used to force Mcleod to fight? Check
etc.

Yeah, My Amber buddy and I were watching it in the theatre when it came out, 1st 10 minutes...
Conan's narrator: "They call him Caine"
OMG! I thought as we looked @ each other, we both thought it would be great, we created the whole story in our heads about the 1st immortal, biblical Caine, the father of all immortals now fighting his last son....
no, it sucked.
In 30 seconds I had a better story than they did after 4 yrs.
how sad.

oh well, this is the background of my Vampire/Immortal WoD campaign I ran a several yrs. back.
I created rules etc. for Immortals before WW did.

...sigh

The prequel novels weren't a disaster in my opinion, but neither were they spectacular. A few thoughts...

1. Betancourt did his best to try to imitate Zelazny, but he did so in content rather than simply in style. When I read Amber, I pick up on Corwin's (or Merlin's) sarcastic wit and if I sit down to write a short story I tend to write with that sort of style. Betancourt doesn't seem to have captured the thought patterns of Zelazny's characters and his plot devices seem too much like they were borrowed from Zelazny's stories. Sadly, that makes the worst of both worlds.

2. One thing I like is the fact that Amber wasn't totally done, wasn't static. Having some additional novels in the Amberverse was very exciting and an opportunity not to be missed. I remember the thrill of tracking down each of Zelazny's short stories and devouring them, and the continued enjoyment of finding something Amber that I might not have ever seen before. It pains me to think that the series is over and mostly out of print, so that new readers have less and less chance of ever experiencing Amber. At least having new novels on the "new release" rack might prompt a reader to discover Zelazny's Amber series.

3. It's unfortunate that Zelazny didn't want anyone to share in his fun by writing in his universe. This meant that Gaiman and Brust wouldn't touch the project and Betancourt, while a decent enough writer, was too far down the list to get the project perfect. While I can understand his desire to keep Amber to himself, I also resent somewhat his desire that no other authors would be able to carry the torch following his death.

4. If you read the prequel novels, read only the first three. Number four ends on a cliffhanger note and number five was killed by the publisher before it was ever written. I think that it's horrible that the Zelazny estate would allow such a project to end 80% of the way to completion, whether it was top qualty fiction or not. Not getting the final volume is painful.

Question...

Is there a good place to rant about Bentencourt's writing of the Amber genre?

I just finished the 3rd book, (Yeah, I know.... and I shouldn't have watched those Highlander squeekwels too), and I am ticked!!!!
Please direct me to the right place... or should I/is there already, a thread somewhere?

(Sorry to throw this in here, but it seems to be a common irk.

You could always start a new thread yourself.

Anyways, if you happen to be reading this Erick, I'd love to hear about how things are going with negotiations or progress or whatever, and where the future of Amber is at?

RPGPundit

Quote from: finarvyn1. Betancourt did his best to try to imitate Zelazny, but he did so in content rather than simply in style.

...

Betancourt doesn't seem to have captured the thought patterns of Zelazny's characters and his plot devices seem too much like they were borrowed from Zelazny's stories. Sadly, that makes the worst of both worlds.

I concur entirely, with the addendum that this technique  - rewriting the same storylines without adequately capturing the characters - is typical of the worse spin off/sequel hack writing in all genres. It suggests that not only did the author not appreciate the style and characterisation of the original material, but that he was insufficiently inventive even to produce his own plots.

Quote3. It's unfortunate that Zelazny didn't want anyone to share in his fun by writing in his universe. This meant that Gaiman and Brust wouldn't touch the project

I have often wondered whether Zelezney intended this limitation to apply after his death, or whether he was just averse to other authors playing in his sand pit while he was still writing. The only comment I have seen on the issue came from Gaiman commenting on his idea of putting together a book of amber short stories by assorted authors while RZ was still alive and didn't make things particularly clear. Given that RZ was allegedly planning a thrid series I often wonder whether he only intended to keep the deck clear until he had finished that.

QuoteWhile I can understand his desire to keep Amber to himself, I also resent somewhat his desire that no other authors would be able to carry the torch following his death.

Moreover it's not in keeping with his general willingness to collaborate with other authors, including posthumously, on other projects.

Quote from: TrevelyanI have often wondered whether Zelazny intended this limitation to apply after his death...

Roger was very, very clear, in conversations with me, and with many others, that he was speaking about his legacy, and what was to happen after his death.

Erick

Yup, he was totally clear, and it was his right. And probably for the best, so we didn't end up with a Forgotten-Realms or Star-Wars/Trek like "series" of crap novels by B-grade writers making a mess of the story.

On the other hand, from what I heard from Erick, he was very enthusiastic about the ideas of an Amber RPG and the fan fiction written from those gaming experiences (like what was published in Amberzine).  So that should be his legacy... its part of why I think its so important that the Amber RPG continue, and that it continue to be done right, in the right hands.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Erick WujcikRoger was very, very clear, in conversations with me, and with many others, that he was speaking about his legacy, and what was to happen after his death.

Erick

That works for me.

Shame really.

I don't see it as so much of a shame. It was so that second-rate crap like the Betancourt novels wouldn't happen, and that if they did everyone would know it was WITHOUT the author's consent.

RPGPundit

I found out that my sister-in-law-to-be loves the Amber novels! Bad thing is she also 'enjoyed' the Betancourt ones too...

I scold her every chance I get about it.


But anyways, I just wanted to ask RPGPundit, have Eric or Edwin spoken to you about making this forum kind of the 'official place' for fan discussion of the Diceless by Design developments?

I wonder how much input fans will end up having. I'm curious to know what they have in mind... Share their own take on the ADRPG, welcome input from people like us, offer online support once the book is out, call for playtesters, fanfiction, art contributions...?

I know most of us pretty much made it clear that we'd like to help in any way we can. I guess I'm just getting giddy over the whole idea. It takes time, so forgive the outburst... :o

Quote from: Nihilistic MindI found out that my sister-in-law-to-be loves the Amber novels! Bad thing is she also 'enjoyed' the Betancourt ones too...

I scold her every chance I get about it.


But anyways, I just wanted to ask RPGPundit, have Eric or Edwin spoken to you about making this forum kind of the 'official place' for fan discussion of the Diceless by Design developments?

Sadly no, they haven't yet. This despite the fact that I've invited them to several times already, and asked Erick about it several times too.

Then again, the guys haven't seemed to have done much of anything else yet either, so maybe they're just waiting.
I certainly hope that they decide to work with us and make use of the resource that this site already is, rather than going it alone.  Maybe Erick will speak to them about it again.

QuoteI wonder how much input fans will end up having. I'm curious to know what they have in mind... Share their own take on the ADRPG, welcome input from people like us, offer online support once the book is out, call for playtesters, fanfiction, art contributions...?

Again, despite multiple requests for the same, information has not been forthcoming.

QuoteI know most of us pretty much made it clear that we'd like to help in any way we can. I guess I'm just getting giddy over the whole idea. It takes time, so forgive the outburst... :o

I'm worried its been taking too long a time with no development.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPunditAgain, despite multiple requests for the same, information has not been forthcoming.

I'm worried its been taking too long a time with no development.

The initial stages of writing a game take a long time.  I would expect it to take a month per 20,000 words of the final manuscript.  You can't be consulting with people during this stage or everything comes out incoherent.

Particularly if the rights issues still haven't been settled yet.

I just wanna know where the line is to start for the game play-test!
:devil: :toast: :unicorn:
Chaos     &     Amber

:scorpion:

Quote from: OthaThe initial stages of writing a game take a long time.  I would expect it to take a month per 20,000 words of the final manuscript.  You can't be consulting with people during this stage or everything comes out incoherent.

Oh, I can understand that, but I'd feel more confident if there was something more on their website than just a placeholder.

RPGPundit

There's something that I really like about a developper's blog: you can keep track of progress, or lack thereof.

I'm not saying nothing's happening, but this thread allows me to nag them into sharing behind-the-scenes info... Or just plainly piss them off. :o

J/k, of course. I'll be patient for a while longer.

Quote from: Nihilistic MindThere's something that I really like about a developper's blog: you can keep track of progress, or lack thereof.

I'm not saying nothing's happening, but this thread allows me to nag them into sharing behind-the-scenes info... Or just plainly piss them off. :o

J/k, of course. I'll be patient for a while longer.

I really doubt they're reading this.  It would be a mistake, at this stage.

I have a question for Diceless by Design....

Do you plan on filling in some useable houses... of Chaos... and those references to Amber as well... ?

I often see the paradigm of trying to encapsulate an uncontainable system into regimented #s and graphs and rules and categories... (and sometimes... gasp! dice! Sometimes it helps, sometimes it hinders...)
but I think it would help if there were a regimented system for Houses / backgrounds of Chaos on the Logrus side of things.

I broke down most of the houses IMC to act as cabals in a triumvirate of power checks & balances.

3 Major Houses supporting the Crown
3 Major houses supporting the Church of the Serpent Hung on the Tree of Matter
and 3 Major Houses grouped to support whatever the GM chooses
(Trump/Demons/Secret Elders of the Abyss/'the Beyond'... what have you.

These each have their own houses sworn to them;
(3 other major houses to each corner of the triangle.)

then 6 medium powered houses each, and however many lesser
(I did 3 lesser houses each cause 27 houses is a lot to come up with...)

These are under the Chaos house thread... but I also have stats and backgrounds of houses and members.
This I think is the best way to run a successfully rich Chaos campaign.

(I'm sure there are 100s of houses of Chaos... but this is an epic style game, so we're only concerned with the Major players, pawns are created on the spot.)

Arref, MaBerry, Wujcik, and many famous writers are thanked for their insight and web page information.
Some reference is easy to see; Diablo, Moorcock, Starcraft, ALIENS, Asgurd, DrangonLance, WhiteWolf, comics, books etc...

Gabriel,

I still think there is a real issue putting too much background information in the core rule book. The core rules should be just that a core rule system with good clear worked examples. details about Chaos houses, names individuals , even the various versions of the elders should be in a separate book or books.
I want to see good clear rules with variants. So a core system, an optional partial Powers system, maube an optional skill system. You do need to deliver the flavour of the Amber universe but you don't need complete stats for the major 20 Chaos houses , that is for the DM to design into their campaign.

1. There is a potential problem with creating additional information and calling it "Amber". The Zelazny estate may limit the RPG to names and ideas pulled directly from the novels, but may not allow much extrapolation. (This is the problem IMO with "The Complete Amber Sourcebook" and others -- too much information not directly coming from any actual Zelazny source.)

2. As jibbajibba said, there would certainly be a problem in supplying too much campaign information. If you look at Amber games on the web, you'll notice that there are vast differences between most of them. If you set up a complete setting in the rulebook, a very large population of gamers might decide it's not worth their money because that isn't information they will use in their own game.

3. To combine the first two points, I suspect that when ADRP-2 is done it will resemble ADRP-1 in many ways. I would expect to see the same general Elders, same style of format with quotes from the books for atmosphere, the same kind of general background information. Where the new version may differ could be in terms of game mechanics, suggestions for how to run an Amber style game, and hopefully some options for players to use in their campaign. Major background information will likely not be added.

All I really want is a clarification of how handing out Experience should work.

The innovations will come in the area of rules.  

The setting information is fixed; there is no room to expand it, and little reason to amplify it.  They might as well pull it whole cloth from the original work.

Instead, we will see a modernization of the system.  Exactly how, I don't know, but it will happen, because otherwise there's no point in putting out a second edition.  Otherwise, a reprint would be in order.

This, I believe, will be enough to infuriate Pundit, since it seems that he believes that the first edition rules are the best of all possible Amber rules.  As such it will be loudly decried, condemned, and repudiated.

Ample reason for the authors not to come within flaming distance of this board.

So sayeths the 'Rule Monger'
I see otha as the argumentative type, not really devil's advocate, more just annoyingly opposite.

Quote from: OthaThe innovations will come in the area of rules.  

The setting information is fixed; there is no room to expand it, and little reason to amplify it.  They might as well pull it whole cloth from the original work.

Instead, we will see a modernization of the system.  Exactly how, I don't know, but it will happen, because otherwise there's no point in putting out a second edition.  Otherwise, a reprint would be in order.

This, I believe, will be enough to infuriate Pundit, since it seems that he believes that the first edition rules are the best of all possible Amber rules.  As such it will be loudly decried, condemned, and repudiated.

Ample reason for the authors not to come within flaming distance of this board.

I know Erick Wujcik well enough to be certain that he would not hand over the rights for Amber to someone who'd fuck up the original rules.

So your pathetic little revenge-porn fantasies are all for nothing.

RPGPundit

I'm willing to let my prediction stand until the book is out there on paper.

Either I'm right, and I'll enjoy that, or I'm wrong, and I'll enjoy THAT.  Win-win.

I found out about Erick Wujcik's health problems, this site & the possibility of a new Amber Diceless  game all at the same time. It's kind of funny (not haha funny, but more like weird ironic sad funny maybe) that some of the best news I've heard all year and the worst were all mixed in together.

I have to tell you all that I'm very, very exited by the news of a new Amber game. Maybe not as excited as I would be about a new source book (Rebma anyone) for the Phage Press game, but still pretty dang excited. Hopefully all the business stuff can be worked out and you all can get down to the important stuff - making a great, fun,new Amber game!

Also I just wanted to thank the fellas over at Diceless by Design for giving a fan update during negotiations like that, I don't think I've ever seen anything like that before. I'm sure a lot of folks out there are keeping their fingers and toes crossed that this all works out!

Quote from: newguyI found out about Erick Wujcik's health problems, this site & the possibility of a new Amber Diceless  game all at the same time. It's kind of funny (not haha funny, but more like weird ironic sad funny maybe) that some of the best news I've heard all year and the worst were all mixed in together.

I have to tell you all that I'm very, very exited by the news of a new Amber game. Maybe not as excited as I would be about a new source book (Rebma anyone) for the Phage Press game, but still pretty dang excited. Hopefully all the business stuff can be worked out and you all can get down to the important stuff - making a great, fun,new Amber game!

Also I just wanted to thank the fellas over at Diceless by Design for giving a fan update during negotiations like that, I don't think I've ever seen anything like that before. I'm sure a lot of folks out there are keeping their fingers and toes crossed that this all works out!

That's what we all hope. Meanwhile, welcome aboard and feel free to start talking about Amber!

RPGPundit

:( I know I'm being impatient, but I want to see some development.

Any news I'm missing out on?

LOL this thread resembles that guy that scares girls away because he is so excited that they are actually speaking to him. Now I know why the new series of Batman movies are kept secret as long as possible (my wife reacts the same way for Batman stuff as I do for Amber stuff).

AFAIAC The only things that (marginally) need fixing in ADRPG1 are the Item Creation rules (they need to mesh better/directly with Attributes)and Ranking (needs streamlined and clarified rules on buying up).

I agree that the core game should rely on the Amber novels for setting. But I would like to see expansions and guide books like 'The Courts of Chaos Enumerated' or 'A complete guide to playing ADRPG with Belencourt's crap'.  

Thats my two cents.

Quote from: eeachLOL this thread resembles that guy that scares girls away because he is so excited that they are actually speaking to him. Now I know why the new series of Batman movies are kept secret as long as possible (my wife reacts the same way for Batman stuff as I do for Amber stuff).

I know, right? :o
I understand why they would want to keep quiet about their progress. I think most of us would be happy to hear that: we're progressing but not ready to share... sort of thing. ;)

I'd still like a more thorough explanation on how Sorcery works.

I would look on the web, nick the best ideas giving credit where an idea is so good and unique everyone would see where it came from. Stick in some slick pictures (get Brom or Bradstreet to do a full colour set of the Trumps as this would probably sell the book on its own) and market it as the greatest game ever to all the Amber fans and I would do it fast before the 4E D&D haters calm down and buy it anyway thus using up money they could spend on my new most splendid and original game.

But if I was to approach it properly I would make more use of these sort of forums and this one in particular. This is a pretty rare place you have a core of people who love the game and have a wealth of Roleplaying experience and will give constructive critism. I seriously doubt there is a single contributor on this forum that would not willingly and for gratis give up their time and effort to be involved in the second edition. These people have the potential to be your disciples and take The Word of the 2nd edition into the world but piss them off and you just get a lot of sarcastic naysayers who will ground you down.
On that basis if I were DbD I would have got Pundit to set up a permanent discussion link where I would post once a month or whatever and poll for opinions on all the areas there are conflict. Ranks versus points ? can you make elements of it optional and still keep the core concept (The auction and player vs player conflict)? Sorcery? Do we need spell lists ? do we need to define the micro spells more clearly? Martial Arts :-) Who the fuck is Jopin if he can give Corwin a good run at chess surely he can best 4 normal men with a blade as well? Optional Skill system ? yes please
You might get a dozen dfferent answers but a sensible org would still use this resource more wisely.

This is why I suspect DbD have done nothing beyond a few discussions with Erick over the rights. Hope I am wrong but I am a bitter cynic.

Quote from: Nihilistic MindI know, right? :o
I understand why they would want to keep quiet about their progress. I think most of us would be happy to hear that: we're progressing but not ready to share... sort of thing. ;)

The fact that they've said nothing creates the impression (true or not, and I suspect that it is) that thus far they have accomplished nothing.

RPGPundit

Sadly, Pundit, I suspect you are correct. I should think that if anything significant was being accomplished the new guys would be out on ADRP boards such as this trying to generate some enthusiasm and see how the "wind" is blowing. No news probably means no action. :(

I consider myself a pretty patient person, I've checked that web site - (the one with ABSOLUTELY NOTHING on it?), and I have to say, I'm disappointed.
If they want to sell it on the merit of the name alone, that's what they'll get. If they want a loyal following and generated interest, then they should respond, somewhere... to someone.

I'm sure I'll get their book when it comes out, but I won't be in ANY hurry, just like them.

Gabriel

It could very well be that the rights issues are still up in the air.

Quote from: Uncle TwitchyIt could very well be that the rights issues are still up in the air.

Crap. Now that Nobilis is getting another chance, I wants me some Amber.

Seanchai

Has anyone heard anything about this lately? I checked dicelessbydesign.com just now and see that there's /nothing/ new on it save for the copyright date has been changed to include 2008.

And... do you think they'll reprint the original edition along with their second edition?

Quote from: CrimsonAnd... do you think they'll reprint the original edition along with their second edition?

We can only hope so. At this point I'd be happy if it were all that they were doing... A reprint and revival would make recruiting for Amber games much easier...

Does anyone know either of these guys? Edwin Voskamp or Eric Todd?

If someone does, maybe they could get in touch with them and ask what's going on?

Erick had originally indicated there'd be new stuff on that website by July 2007.  We're getting close to a year after that date, and there's still nothing.

RPGPundit

I heard from one of the "new guys" and he informed me that things are clear with Erick Wujcik but they still need to get things straightened out with the Zelazny estate through their agent.

Wow. This stuff takes long... Good to hear though :) Thanks for that!

Yes, well, I can imagine that the Zelazny estate would be particularly complicated when it comes to this sort of thing. One has to wonder at this point whether the issue is that they don't really want an RPG to happen, or if they're trying to demand that the game include material on the heretical moneymaking junk that Zelazny's ex-wife authorised, and that was largely rejected by Amber fandom. This could be tricky for the guys.

RPGPundit

There are a million reasons it could take a while (all of these hypothetical):

a) lack of urgency (or higher alternate priorities) on the part of any one or more of the concerned parties
b) the complexity of dealing with the GoO issue
c) lack of funding (lawyers take money)
d) Erick's situation and the emotional issues it might evoke
e) complications arising from the SciFi network's option on the novels*
f) terms being agreed on (it's highly unlikely that RZ's estate will give DbD the same deal Roger gave Erick)

So it could be a number of things slowing things down.


* Not sure if they still have it, as it's been almost four years since they announced it, but I know that they have a knack for complicating matters. With Larry Niven's blessing, Chaosium wanted to do a new edition of Ringworld and had it shot down by SciFi because of the option for a Ringworld miniseries, even to the point of a Known Space RPG being out of the question because of shared traits with the Ringworld IP.

Quote from: jduralle) complications arising from the SciFi network's option on the novels*

I wish they'd do something with that option if they still have it.

Yeah, new material or a mini-series/movie, as good or bad as it turns out, will bring a new wave of fans to the RPG. At least that's what I hope this will become at this point.