This is a site for discussing roleplaying games. Have fun doing so, but there is one major rule: do not discuss political issues that aren't directly and uniquely related to the subject of the thread and about gaming. While this site is dedicated to free speech, the following will not be tolerated: devolving a thread into unrelated political discussion, sockpuppeting (using multiple and/or bogus accounts), disrupting topics without contributing to them, and posting images that could get someone fired in the workplace (an external link is OK, but clearly mark it as Not Safe For Work, or NSFW). If you receive a warning, please take it seriously and either move on to another topic or steer the discussion back to its original RPG-related theme.

Erick: What can you tell us about the New Guys?

Started by RPGPundit, June 21, 2007, 03:10:29 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

RPGPundit

Quote from: Eric ToddSnap non-binding editorial decision: hell no!

-E

Thank God.  Frankly, I would rather that no new Amber game ever come out than that one be released where those fucking monstrosities (which are a literal affront to Zelazny's memory and last wishes) be included as canon.  If that's a condition the estate tries to place on you, say no, and fuck the whole project.

RPGPundit
LION & DRAGON: Medieval-Authentic OSR Roleplaying is available now! You only THINK you\'ve played \'medieval fantasy\' until you play L&D.


My Blog:  http://therpgpundit.blogspot.com/
The most famous uruguayan gaming blog on the planet!

NEW!
Check out my short OSR supplements series; The RPGPundit Presents!


Dark Albion: The Rose War! The OSR fantasy setting of the history that inspired Shakespeare and Martin alike.
Also available in Variant Cover form!
Also, now with the CULTS OF CHAOS cult-generation sourcebook

ARROWS OF INDRA
Arrows of Indra: The Old-School Epic Indian RPG!
NOW AVAILABLE: AoI in print form

LORDS OF OLYMPUS
The new Diceless RPG of multiversal power, adventure and intrigue, now available.

Cab

Quote from: Eric ToddSnap non-binding editorial decision: hell no!

:D :D :D

Good answer!
 


Trevelyan

Quote from: James McMurrayPrequel novels?
I guy I know mentioned them to me once but he was clearly just making shit up. He also tried to tell me that they made a sequal to Highlander :rolleyes:
 

Cab

I wanted to like those prequel books. I really did. I read the first two, but they just didn't grip me.

When I pick up one of Zelaznys amber novels I can't put it down again. And then I want to read the next one. Pick up one of those prequels... Well, its just not Zelazny. It doesn't read like Amber, the stories aren't right for it.

For me, Amber marks the peak of pulp-fantasy literature. They're amongst my very favourite books. The prequels, well, the guy did his best, but Zelaznys shoes were simply too big for him to step in to.
 

Sargon

Quote from: TrevelyanI guy I know mentioned them to me once but he was clearly just making shit up. He also tried to tell me that they made a sequal to Highlander :rolleyes:

They did, but oddly enough the sequal was highlander 3.  Funny how that worked out, huh? ( yeah I know some purists hated 3, too, btu still... :>  )
"Uncle Sargon, how can I traverse shadow the "royal way?"
"It's easy, instead of riding your usual mount you ride Flora.  Just remember that others have been there first, lots of others...."

gabriel_ss4u

Sargon, that whole Highlander thing is comical denial, and it's actually shared by most Highlander fans. (which would make it a forced reality)

Buuuuuuut...

WOW!
Awesome you guys @ DicelessbyDesign!

I can't wait to hear more.
I'm w/RGPUndit... if there is ANYTHING I can do to help.... what?
What can I do?
good question.
Lots of stuff, work like a slave for one, but I find that I echo a lot of thoughts on here.
I'd talk to RGPUndit and get his top 5 list and have a sit-down brain-storm w/ him & them, and since he doesn't know me that well yet, just include me too, I'll prove my worth in short time.

Like you all, we here do love Amber and would sacrifice for it too.

My brother works for United, perhaps I can arrange some tickets???
Gabriel_ss4u
From the Halls of Amber to the Courts of Chaos - and beyond.
Champions since 1982
ADRPG since 1992
Supers & Sci-Fant since fa-eva.
http://gabriel-ss4u.deviantart.com/
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1198352862

Trevelyan

Quote from: SargonThey did, but oddly enough the sequal was highlander 3.  Funny how that worked out, huh? ( yeah I know some purists hated 3, too, btu still... :>  )
3 was okay, but it didn't really do anything that 1 hadn't done:

Pissed off older immortal? Check
Previous encouter where McLeod had escaped? Check
Kidnapped loved one used to force Mcleod to fight? Check
etc.
 

gabriel_ss4u

Yeah, My Amber buddy and I were watching it in the theatre when it came out, 1st 10 minutes...
Conan's narrator: "They call him Caine"
OMG! I thought as we looked @ each other, we both thought it would be great, we created the whole story in our heads about the 1st immortal, biblical Caine, the father of all immortals now fighting his last son....
no, it sucked.
In 30 seconds I had a better story than they did after 4 yrs.
how sad.

oh well, this is the background of my Vampire/Immortal WoD campaign I ran a several yrs. back.
I created rules etc. for Immortals before WW did.

...sigh
Gabriel_ss4u
From the Halls of Amber to the Courts of Chaos - and beyond.
Champions since 1982
ADRPG since 1992
Supers & Sci-Fant since fa-eva.
http://gabriel-ss4u.deviantart.com/
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1198352862

finarvyn

The prequel novels weren't a disaster in my opinion, but neither were they spectacular. A few thoughts...

1. Betancourt did his best to try to imitate Zelazny, but he did so in content rather than simply in style. When I read Amber, I pick up on Corwin's (or Merlin's) sarcastic wit and if I sit down to write a short story I tend to write with that sort of style. Betancourt doesn't seem to have captured the thought patterns of Zelazny's characters and his plot devices seem too much like they were borrowed from Zelazny's stories. Sadly, that makes the worst of both worlds.

2. One thing I like is the fact that Amber wasn't totally done, wasn't static. Having some additional novels in the Amberverse was very exciting and an opportunity not to be missed. I remember the thrill of tracking down each of Zelazny's short stories and devouring them, and the continued enjoyment of finding something Amber that I might not have ever seen before. It pains me to think that the series is over and mostly out of print, so that new readers have less and less chance of ever experiencing Amber. At least having new novels on the "new release" rack might prompt a reader to discover Zelazny's Amber series.

3. It's unfortunate that Zelazny didn't want anyone to share in his fun by writing in his universe. This meant that Gaiman and Brust wouldn't touch the project and Betancourt, while a decent enough writer, was too far down the list to get the project perfect. While I can understand his desire to keep Amber to himself, I also resent somewhat his desire that no other authors would be able to carry the torch following his death.

4. If you read the prequel novels, read only the first three. Number four ends on a cliffhanger note and number five was killed by the publisher before it was ever written. I think that it's horrible that the Zelazny estate would allow such a project to end 80% of the way to completion, whether it was top qualty fiction or not. Not getting the final volume is painful.
Marv / Finarvyn
Kingmaker of Amber
I'm pretty much responsible for the S&W WB rules.
Amber Diceless Player since 1993
OD&D Player since 1975

gabriel_ss4u

Question...

Is there a good place to rant about Bentencourt's writing of the Amber genre?

I just finished the 3rd book, (Yeah, I know.... and I shouldn't have watched those Highlander squeekwels too), and I am ticked!!!!
Please direct me to the right place... or should I/is there already, a thread somewhere?

(Sorry to throw this in here, but it seems to be a common irk.
Gabriel_ss4u
From the Halls of Amber to the Courts of Chaos - and beyond.
Champions since 1982
ADRPG since 1992
Supers & Sci-Fant since fa-eva.
http://gabriel-ss4u.deviantart.com/
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1198352862

RPGPundit

You could always start a new thread yourself.

Anyways, if you happen to be reading this Erick, I'd love to hear about how things are going with negotiations or progress or whatever, and where the future of Amber is at?

RPGPundit
LION & DRAGON: Medieval-Authentic OSR Roleplaying is available now! You only THINK you\'ve played \'medieval fantasy\' until you play L&D.


My Blog:  http://therpgpundit.blogspot.com/
The most famous uruguayan gaming blog on the planet!

NEW!
Check out my short OSR supplements series; The RPGPundit Presents!


Dark Albion: The Rose War! The OSR fantasy setting of the history that inspired Shakespeare and Martin alike.
Also available in Variant Cover form!
Also, now with the CULTS OF CHAOS cult-generation sourcebook

ARROWS OF INDRA
Arrows of Indra: The Old-School Epic Indian RPG!
NOW AVAILABLE: AoI in print form

LORDS OF OLYMPUS
The new Diceless RPG of multiversal power, adventure and intrigue, now available.

Trevelyan

Quote from: finarvyn1. Betancourt did his best to try to imitate Zelazny, but he did so in content rather than simply in style.

...

Betancourt doesn't seem to have captured the thought patterns of Zelazny's characters and his plot devices seem too much like they were borrowed from Zelazny's stories. Sadly, that makes the worst of both worlds.
I concur entirely, with the addendum that this technique  - rewriting the same storylines without adequately capturing the characters - is typical of the worse spin off/sequel hack writing in all genres. It suggests that not only did the author not appreciate the style and characterisation of the original material, but that he was insufficiently inventive even to produce his own plots.

Quote3. It's unfortunate that Zelazny didn't want anyone to share in his fun by writing in his universe. This meant that Gaiman and Brust wouldn't touch the project
I have often wondered whether Zelezney intended this limitation to apply after his death, or whether he was just averse to other authors playing in his sand pit while he was still writing. The only comment I have seen on the issue came from Gaiman commenting on his idea of putting together a book of amber short stories by assorted authors while RZ was still alive and didn't make things particularly clear. Given that RZ was allegedly planning a thrid series I often wonder whether he only intended to keep the deck clear until he had finished that.

QuoteWhile I can understand his desire to keep Amber to himself, I also resent somewhat his desire that no other authors would be able to carry the torch following his death.
Moreover it's not in keeping with his general willingness to collaborate with other authors, including posthumously, on other projects.
 

Erick Wujcik

Quote from: TrevelyanI have often wondered whether Zelazny intended this limitation to apply after his death...

Roger was very, very clear, in conversations with me, and with many others, that he was speaking about his legacy, and what was to happen after his death.

Erick
Erick Wujcik
http://www.47rpg.com

RPGPundit

Yup, he was totally clear, and it was his right. And probably for the best, so we didn't end up with a Forgotten-Realms or Star-Wars/Trek like "series" of crap novels by B-grade writers making a mess of the story.

On the other hand, from what I heard from Erick, he was very enthusiastic about the ideas of an Amber RPG and the fan fiction written from those gaming experiences (like what was published in Amberzine).  So that should be his legacy... its part of why I think its so important that the Amber RPG continue, and that it continue to be done right, in the right hands.

RPGPundit
LION & DRAGON: Medieval-Authentic OSR Roleplaying is available now! You only THINK you\'ve played \'medieval fantasy\' until you play L&D.


My Blog:  http://therpgpundit.blogspot.com/
The most famous uruguayan gaming blog on the planet!

NEW!
Check out my short OSR supplements series; The RPGPundit Presents!


Dark Albion: The Rose War! The OSR fantasy setting of the history that inspired Shakespeare and Martin alike.
Also available in Variant Cover form!
Also, now with the CULTS OF CHAOS cult-generation sourcebook

ARROWS OF INDRA
Arrows of Indra: The Old-School Epic Indian RPG!
NOW AVAILABLE: AoI in print form

LORDS OF OLYMPUS
The new Diceless RPG of multiversal power, adventure and intrigue, now available.