Cleric!

[Doughdee222]

Here's another subject I haven't seen discussed before on this board.

The majority of typical fantasy character stereotypes can be easily mimicked in Amber. Warriors/fighters are just guys with high Warfare and Endurance, even warrior subclasses such as Ranger, Paladin, Barbarian (more a cultural issue than a class IMOH.) are Warfare specialists with coloring.

Martial artists and wrestlers and Monks have high Strength and Warfare.

Mages are people with high Psyche and probably some Sorcery and/or Conjuration.

Shapeshifting Druids are, well, Shape Shifters.

Thieves/Rogues are defined by their non-combat skills such as lock picking and climbing walls and stealthiness which is covered by character background rather than attributes or Powers.

The one class that is tricky is the Cleric/Priest/Shaman character. Now, of course, anyone can have a background which includes being a priest or pastor, rabbi, imam, monk or whatever. Heck, in Amber you could be Space Pope with a trillion alien followers if you wish (staggers the imagination doesn't it?) But I'm looking beyond that to a real Power.

So, what's the best way to make a Cleric? Take Sorcery and say your spells are focused on healing, curing, dispelling, detecting ills and maybe a few buffs? A holy symbol could be used as the item to rack spells onto. Maybe toss in a shield and mace of undead smiting and you're good to go.

Or perhaps create a new Power and have healing and turning undead be integral to the character? The source of the Power would be the Blessing of God, earned by years of study and faith and deeds. (What God is is up to you: the Pattern & Logrus? The Unicorn & Serpent? A true higher God?)

I'm interested to see people's thoughts on this. For those experienced GMs: how often do players attempt to make such a character? How did you swing it? Did it work well? Or maybe with so many sources of healing already available Clerics just aren't needed.

[Arref]

Clerics draw their power from a 'higher being' and so they basically have a powerbase that can be negated, removed, or will not work outside the boundaries of a single shadow, or reflections of that shadow.

So their powers are costed on the low side.
I usually give them a set of skills for 8 to 10 pts and a focus that is 1 or 2 pts.

Conditions to the use of their power, are the GM's to work out.

I've never had a PC want to work for a god.

[RTrimmer]

In one game I had a couple of shadow gods -- spirits with cults and some real power -- grant some Amberites temporary saint status as their only means to strike at a common foe.

Beating the hell out of fast-healing Amberite PCs is a basic gm drama tool. Clerics blow that away. I usually limit healing spells to instant first aid.

Pattern might be capable of stopping plagues and pestilence via probability control or advanced tricks. Very saint-y.

Normal Amberites handle undead quite well with dismemberment, appropriate spells or tech, psychic attacks, etc.

In the real world holy warriors are differentiated from the rest by attitude, motivation and membership in organizations. A devout PC can do the same.

Some sort of Power Word for attacking insubstantial creatures, or a weapon enchanted for the same, enough Psyche to deal with vamps or whatever, maybe Sorcery used appropriately, maybe Conjuration to 'bless' weapons and heal people...

[finarvyn]

Clerics draw their power from a 'higher being' and so they basically have a powerbase that can be negated, removed, or will not work outside the boundaries of a single shadow, or reflections of that shadow.

Unless you go with the idea that Pattern and Logrus are the "higher being" giving the powers, in which case one could argue that almost everyone from Amber or the Courts of Chaos are actually clerics.

Of course when Merlin encounters the Shroudlings, one could argue that they are very much like vampires. Merlin doesn't seem to stress much around them, so perhaps their power level is just so inferior to his that they aren't worth worrying about.

Interesting that Zelazny never really addresses religion, other than the cult of Corwin.

[Panjumanju]

Take Sorcery and say your spells are focused on healing, curing, dispelling, detecting ills and maybe a few buffs? A holy symbol could be used as the item to rack spells onto. Maybe toss in a shield and mace of undead smiting and you're good to go.

I think you answered your own question.

I have one player who regardless of the setting, the tone of the game, or whatever else is going on in the in-game universe, wants to be the healer. I think this is how he feels comfortable being useful in a group, or that this is how he feels needed - I don't know. I suppose i's how he expresses his hang-up. Regardless, yes - I have had someone try to be a cleric in Amber. It works...but really does not bring out what is interesting about the system and its setting.

//Panjumanju

[jibbajibba]

I have an advanced shapeshift partial power that heals others...

but my players have more often wanted to be gods granting power to minions rather than minions......

[Croaker]

The one class that is tricky is the Cleric/Priest/Shaman character.

Conjuration can do some tricks, especially for shamans: It can summon spirits and creatures, after all.

It can also enchant amberites, giving them qualities and powers, although, to do so, it'd better be backed up by a Real power, or else it won't last long.
Same thing goes for healing, of course.

[Panjumanju]

I don't mean to run contrary to the spirit of the thread, but WHY would you want to emulate fantasy classes in Amber?

There are better games for emulating those fantasy classes. This is certainly not what Amber does best.

It's like using a monkey wrench for a hammer. Yes, you can do it...but...

//Panjumanju

[Doughdee222]

There are several reason to emulate them.

First, they are convenient archetypes for players to latch onto. The concept of the warrior is easy to grasp, the concept of the rogue is plain enough, and the concept of the holy man and priest is common to all cultures, with variation of course. The concept of the basic Amberite or Chaosite is tricky and multi-layered however. Even after reading the novels and rulebooks and playing in a campaign players may still not entirely "get it." For example, look at Artifact of Amber's game log. Six months later and the players are still struggling to figure out what they can do and how to behave. One guy in particular is trying to go in two directions at once. I think if he went with a basic fantasy archetype at the start he'd be having an easier time of it.

Clerics in particular, as we all know, are extremely useful. In many games and campaigns the healer is indispensable. He's what saves the party after a battle. He's the difference between resting for a few hours or and resting for a month or more. In a game such as World of Warcraft you simply can't have a group without a healer. Every party doing a 5 man instance needs at least one, every raid needs two or more.
Again, look at Artifact's game log. The characters are getting beaten up regularly. They spend quite a bit of time healing. If it was a TV show the Infirmary would be a major set. I bet they wish they had a cleric speeding the healing process. I presume the same is true with many an Amber campaign.

In addition to role and power/skill set the basic fantasy archetypes provide a good hook for character personality. Rogue: sneaky and cowardly, or a devious double-O spy. Warrior: noble defender of the weak, or a brutish jackass. Cleric: Holier-than-thou blowhard, or a calm soother among the poor. Mage: aloof intellectual snob, or a guy who wants to achieve things with minimal muscle movement. Etc.

Such classes may not be what Amber is best at, but I don't think they should be entirely abandoned either. Focusing on Pattern and Trump Powers or advanced Warfare is fine. Having a guy in the group who can pick locks quietly and find answers in a dark alley or seedy bar is useful too.

[RTrimmer]

It depends on what flavor you're trying for. The Corwin books were more or less pulp detective + Arthurian epic. In both getting the crap kicked out of you and working through the pain (and recovering inhumanly fast and completely) with occasional trips to the hospital/holy healer nun or hermit are part of the deal.

With an inta-healer along, well I'd get tired of trying to make the players feel the pain and describe the damage in interesting ways when, ten minutes later, it's all gone.

[RPGPundit]

You can play an Amberite who's a D&D cleric from the forgotten realms. He'll be surprised as all fuck to find out his "god" is only a powerful shadow being, and all those "cleric spells" only work in his own shadow or nearby neighbours.

As far as clerics of the Unicorn or Dragon are concerned, sure you could do that too. But those are essentially NPCs in the game; as a GM I wouldn't create a system of spells and powers for that, I'd just ask myself "well, does the unicorn/dragon give a fuck about this guy? If so ,what will they do to to him and in exchange for what?"

RPGPundit

[Taewakan]

I tend to use the power of belief and level of psyche to explain healing ability. I figure it doesn't matter what you believe in, so long as you believe in something/someone - thank you Shepherd from Firefly.

I even had a player use her belief system to create a new power - The Greening. It was a healing and divination power that would eventually cause the recipient of the blessings to fall in love with the priest or priestess who cured/blessed her/him and everyone to fall in love with her/him. (A variation cribbed and modified from Terry Goodkind's Wizard's Rules/Seeker series of books, though slightly less dramatic or life changing. But only slightly less. Loving the priest or priestess made the normal NPCs better at loving others too. How sweet. No member of the royal family would allow her to touch, let alone heal them.)


Another two cents bites the dust.

[RPGPundit]

I've always despised this idea that "power actually comes from belief" because its so utterly modern and so definitely contrary to the classical tradition.

[Taewakan]

I've always despised this idea that "power actually comes from belief" because its so utterly modern and so definitely contrary to the classical tradition.

What can I say - I feel your pain.

Personally I think Corwin had such a high Endurance just so EW didn't have to deal with the effects of real damage - in game. Corwin could sluff-off anything short of major nerve damage. Look at what happened to Benedict. Four years was bad enough, but twenty? This is why I love slow time shadows. Ten minutes equals ten years. Whoo Hoo!

I think you hit the nail on the head, though. I suspect the EW had the same attitude toward healing. It is hinted that walking the Pattern heals mental damage/effects. I think it is possible that there is another power, a cousin to The Pattern, that heals the body instead or as well - thus my PC with The Greening.

Healing really wasn't part of EW's "game", so we DMs improvise, adapt and overcome - so to speak.

Once upon a when I had a bigger friend-base with which to discuss options when PCs come up with clever and frustrating ideas. It isn't the same as having an Elder on your shoulder, but it is useful - which is why I love this forum!
Kudos one and all!

[RPGPundit]

In Lords of Olympus I have fairly rigid structure defined for healing rates.  

I do think healing was very much a part of Erick's game, just like many other things he didn't want to get too specific out of fear of limiting the options for a GM too much.