An Amber-in-all-but-name Game?

[charis]

Ahhh, I see! Thanks for the clarification!

[warp9]

I was wondering if we could start a new thread here on the forums, asking everyone what they want in the new Diceless system that will be different from ADRPG, or what tweaks should be made, etc. I've read through the forums a lot, and there's so many different homebrew rules and speculations, it'd be nice to have everyone post how they would want the new system to work for things. For instance, the whole warfare is martial arts, no wait, strength is martial arts thing. Or, what in the world, new sorcery system please? Or the item creation problems, etc... That way maybe we could get all of the ideas in one thread for the people working on the new Diceless system to look at and get feedback on.

Even if nobody is actually doing Amber 2.0 at the moment, it still might be an interesting discussion to have.

[finarvyn]

Even if nobody is actually doing Amber 2.0 at the moment, it still might be an interesting discussion to have.

Agreed! link

[Qwilion]

Just an update we got the initial sketch for the Lords of Gossamer and Shadow and have submitted our requested corrections and Jason Rainvilles is hard at work on that, while Jason Durall is answering the Power 19.

[Erebus Bill]

Excellent!

Love the title btw.

[RPGPundit]

Just an update we got the initial sketch for the Lords of Gossamer and Shadow and have submitted our requested corrections and Jason Rainvilles is hard at work on that, while Jason Durall is answering the Power 19.

Are those two different books? Lords of Gossamer and Shadow, and Power 19?

Interesting that you went with "Lords of..." I guess it just fits for this kind of product.  Lords of Olympus was a natural fit.

RPGPundit

[Qwilion]

There was a whole long thing about me having a problem with the sexist nature of the word "Lords" as I wanted to call it "Sovereigns" but Jason was set on Lords from before we announced the licence. And all the women I know told me they were fine with lords and sit down and shut up.

The "Power 19 design questions of Rpg Design"  were developed on indie game design forum the The Forge to help explain what your game is about.
I asked Jason to do this to help those folks who don't know the Books and have never played the ADRPG.

1.) What is your game about?
2.) What do the characters do?
3.) What do the players (including the GM if there is one) do?
4.) How does your setting (or lack thereof) reinforce what your game is about?
5.) How does the Character Creation of your game reinforce what your game is about?
6.) What types of behaviors/styles of play does your game reward (and punish if necessary)?
7.) How are behaviors and styles of play rewarded or punished in your game?
8.) How are the responsibilities of narration and credibility divided in your game?
9.) What does your game do to command the players' attention, engagement, and participation? (i.e. What does the game do to make them care?)
10.) What are the resolution mechanics of your game like?
11.) How do the resolution mechanics reinforce what your game is about?
12.) Do characters in your game advance? If so, how?
13.) How does the character advancement (or lack thereof) reinforce what your game is about?
14.) What sort of product or effect do you want your game to produce in or for the players?
15.) What areas of your game receive extra attention and color? Why?
16.) Which part of your game are you most excited about or interested in? Why?
17.) Where does your game take the players that other games can’t, don’t, or won’t?
18.) What are your publishing goals for your game?
19.) Who is your target audience?

[RPGPundit]

Oh, I see. Well, surprisingly for something that came out of the Forge, only about half of those questions are a crock of shit. Of course, most of the rest are just kind of useless.
Me, I'll just be doing periodic blurbs about how awesome my game is, and my own awesomeness as well.

RPGPundit

[finarvyn]

only about half of those questions are a crock of shit. Of course, most of the rest are just kind of useless.

I think you are being overly critical of the questions, probably biased by their source. I had nothing to do with writing the questions nor had seen them prior to reading this thread, but I can't imagine a competent game designer who doesn't at least think about most of this stuff.

These questions are clearly critical to game design
1.) What is your game about?
2.) What do the characters do?
3.) What do the players (including the GM if there is one) do?
5.) How does the Character Creation of your game reinforce what your game is about?
10.) What are the resolution mechanics of your game like?
11.) How do the resolution mechanics reinforce what your game is about?
12.) Do characters in your game advance? If so, how?
13.) How does the character advancement (or lack thereof) reinforce what your game is about?
16.) Which part of your game are you most excited about or interested in? Why?
18.) What are your publishing goals for your game?
19.) Who is your target audience?

These questions are more vague, but still important.
4.) How does your setting (or lack thereof) reinforce what your game is about?
6.) What types of behaviors/styles of play does your game reward (and punish if necessary)?
9.) What does your game do to command the players' attention, engagement, and participation? (i.e. What does the game do to make them care?)
14.) What sort of product or effect do you want your game to produce in or for the players?
15.) What areas of your game receive extra attention and color? Why?
17.) Where does your game take the players that other games can't, don't, or won't?

These questions are totally "forge".
7.) How are behaviors and styles of play rewarded or punished in your game?
8.) How are the responsibilities of narration and credibility divided in your game?

[jibbajibba]

I think you are being overly critical of the questions, probably biased by their source. I had nothing to do with writing the questions nor had seen them prior to reading this thread, but I can't imagine a competent game designer who doesn't at least think about most of this stuff.

These questions are clearly critical to game design
1.) What is your game about?
2.) What do the characters do?
3.) What do the players (including the GM if there is one) do?
5.) How does the Character Creation of your game reinforce what your game is about?
10.) What are the resolution mechanics of your game like?
11.) How do the resolution mechanics reinforce what your game is about?
12.) Do characters in your game advance? If so, how?
13.) How does the character advancement (or lack thereof) reinforce what your game is about?
16.) Which part of your game are you most excited about or interested in? Why?
18.) What are your publishing goals for your game?
19.) Who is your target audience?

These questions are more vague, but still important.
4.) How does your setting (or lack thereof) reinforce what your game is about?
6.) What types of behaviors/styles of play does your game reward (and punish if necessary)?
9.) What does your game do to command the players' attention, engagement, and participation? (i.e. What does the game do to make them care?)
14.) What sort of product or effect do you want your game to produce in or for the players?
15.) What areas of your game receive extra attention and color? Why?
17.) Where does your game take the players that other games can't, don't, or won't?

These questions are totally "forge".
7.) How are behaviors and styles of play rewarded or punished in your game?
8.) How are the responsibilities of narration and credibility divided in your game?

I would say even 7 and 8 have some merit.
In an amberish game you want self contained machiavelian characters who are competant and capable in their own right. A mechanic that tries to set that independence is a good idea. In my ambergames PCs have personal goals they they get XP from. This reinforces the sort of independent self-serving play (ont eh basis that your goals can be aultruistic even if they are 'self-serving) I think characterises amber.
The narration bit is obvious. the PCs narrate their back-story and the gm narrates everything else. Credibility is the same as immersion (even if that woudl have the forgies spinning) and the PC playes their character 'credibly' whilst the GM provides an immersive world.

[finarvyn]

I would say even 7 and 8 have some merit.

I didn't mean to imply that they weren't good questions. Only that they were the only two that seemed to fit Pundit's "forge" criteria. The rest of the questions seem to be universal enough to fit for most RPGs out there.

[RPGPundit]

I would say Fin's division is just about dead on, in terms of the ones he put in the first class being actually meaningful questions to ask, and the rest being Forge-ideology bullshit.

Note also that making question 3 include the GM as a "player" is Forge Ideology Bullshit as well.

Also, I'm not totally sure about "publishing goals", inasmuch as the only logical answer for that, if one is a publisher (and the question would be irrelevant for the large number of authors, like myself, who are not themselves the publishers of their games) would be to say "my goal is to make money".

RPGpundit

[Spike]

Note also that making question 3 include the GM as a "player" is Forge Ideology Bullshit as well.


RPGpundit

Nonsense. I have nothing to do with the Forge and as a long time GM I have always considered myself a player as well.  I may not play the same way, but I'm there at the table, rolling fucking dice with everyone else, and if I'm not having fun, then I quit doing it.

 a player.

[Qwilion]

Lords of Gossamer and Shadow
Patronage Project
Powered by Erick Wujcik's Diceless Roleplaying

Rite Publishing is currently soliciting for patrons to help with an original sourcebook and role-playing game using Erick Wujcik's diceless rules system. Lords of Gossamer and Shadow will be a standalone product, but is fully compatible with the existing rules system and can be readily used in new and existing campaigns.

The Project is currently 7% to goal with 60 days remaining to hit goal.

Find out more HERE

[Jason D]

For the record, my total affiliation with the Forge involves registering about five years ago so I could download a free .pdf John Wick gave me, and asking one question on the Dogs in the Vineyards forums.

Oh, and Luke Crane once picked a fight with me on his forums which I felt compelled to respond to.

I wouldn't get too hung up on camps and labeling ideology.

It's just games... the point is to have fun.