An Amber-in-all-but-name Game?

[jibbajibba]

I just don't know what to say, save thank you for trying this, and for all these efforts.

As per the system and world, there must even be ways to keep the "infinite worlds setting.
For exemple, imagine we played in a universe inspired by Moorcock (We can't, copyright-wise, but still...), in which we played Lord of Order or Chaos. You can thus have immortal beings able to travel between paralell worlds in a conflict of Order vs Chaos.

Hum... What about a family of gods? This potentially gives us place for a lot of personnal powers (god of an element...), as well as for a generic pantheon vs pantheon.
Something like this (yeah, this is poor and badly written, this is just for the idea):
The universe was created by the Progenitor god, which fathered sons and daughters, creating a dinasty of Light. All was well, until he went slowly mad and began killing his children. He then disappeared, supposedly killed by his eldest son eons ago. This son became the king of the gods, and in turn fathered a whole new pantheon, although some of his siblings may still be living somewhere. This new pantheon began reigning on the creation, and, of course, to bicker.
But the gods are not alone in the creation.
Somewhere, at the End of creation, Dark gods exist. No one knows their origin, but their evil powers are on par with those of the Light.

And the creation? Have it like those stories which inspired the Discworld: A great turtle housing the world of the gods (Amber), supported by 4 lesser turtles housing the lesser gods, supported each by 4 turtle worlds housing the heroes, and then, the worlds of the mortals, becoming less and less perfect. The gods being able to travel from worlds to worlds and use their divine powers to influence and change them.

The same way, you can have tarot cards as a kind of power.

Tell me you can't play "amber" and have al the Amber themes with this

Agree see my post #73 for similar ideas.

I really prefer a partial powers tree kind of a system and would like a game to have a toolbox for creating new powers rather than just repackaging the ADRPG powers with new less cool names but this is getting well ahead of the current discussion (I always end up focusing on solutioning as opposed to strategy ... )

[Jason D]

I'm utterly slammed at work right now, but will be around sometime to offer some of my initial thoughts after I've had a time to crystallize them.

Here's what I can say so far:

- definitely not generic
- probably no toolkits
- new powers and a different cosmology
- new cast of significant characters
- direct compatibility with ADRPG's rules
- as compatible with ADRPG's setting as any particular GM decides

More to come after I submit the initial writeup to Rite Publishing.

[Croaker]

If I may, this'd be great for such a "game of gods", and would help get it differentiate if from Amber in visuals (if not nescessarily in mechanics), which IMO would be a great thing

A Prince of Amber is kind of like an iceberg, in that he has a shadow part of him (analogous to the part of the iceberg which is above water), and the greater part, (which is the real part that is like the part of the iceberg hidden below the water)

Princes of Amber, and Lords of Chaos, are real, but all their shadow toys are irrelevant, except as expressions of personal style (basically window dressing).

A shadow person only sees the shadow part of a Prince of Amber's body, not the Prince's true essence. And his description of a battle between two princes of Amber would mistakenly focus on the reflections/shadows of the battle, along with their shadow toys. But the shadow person would not see the real/actual conflict, which takes place on a deeper level of reality.

A prince's toys will often be reflections of his true nature. For example, Gerard might ride into a battle mounted on a HUGE war elephant, or commanding a HUGE star-ship. Even his shadow body is very large. But his true power doesn't come from these things, they are merely reflections of the principle of strength which is Gerard.

[finarvyn]

Here's what I can say so far:

- definitely not generic
- probably no toolkits
- new powers and a different cosmology
- new cast of significant characters
- direct compatibility with ADRPG's rules
- as compatible with ADRPG's setting as any particular GM decides

This excites me, but I anticipate a whole bunch of folks giving the "but it's not Amber" speech. I see that same argument presented for some of the retro-clone RPGs and such, and Amber lovers appear to be very specific in their likes and dislikes.

[jibbajibba]

This excites me, but I anticipate a whole bunch of folks giving the "but it's not Amber" speech. I see that same argument presented for some of the retro-clone RPGs and such, and Amber lovers appear to be very specific in their likes and dislikes.

As I said i prefer a toolkit to a list of new powers but I can adapt

Not sure about a cast of new characters though. I don't use the elder Amberites in my games so the idea of using another bunch of characters who (and no diservice to Mr Durall here) aren't as rich or as interesting as them doesn't really float my boat.

[Qwilion]

Yes but in this case, Jason can design characters as devices, rather than simulating characters from the novels and if your a senior patron you can help create the kind of characters you need and do use.

As to the "Its not Amber", anything can be Amber because of the nature of Shadow.

We consider it a strength not to be Amber as we will be unconstrained by the novels allowing us to focus on the game and making the setting fit the game rather than the other way around.

Update: As per Diceless by Designs request I sent them a copy of the proposed licence today for their review, if they approve we will be golden.

[steelmax73]

Making the characters be derived from gods of real myth and folklore could make them more interesting.

[jibbajibba]

Yes but in this case, Jason can design characters as devices, rather than simulating characters from the novels and if your a senior patron you can help create the kind of characters you need and do use.

As to the "Its not Amber", anything can be Amber because of the nature of Shadow.

We consider it a strength not to be Amber as we will be unconstrained by the novels allowing us to focus on the game and making the setting fit the game rather than the other way around.

Update: As per Diceless by Designs request I sent them a copy of the proposed licence today for their review, if they approve we will be golden.

Don't get me wrong its not a deal breaker. Its just that I am less keen on games that are tied to both setting and cast. I may well be an exception in that I don;t want to run a game where there are 16 uber NPCs that can kick the players arses I want the players to build their own pantheon.

[jibbajibba]

Making the characters be derived from gods of real myth and folklore could make them more interesting.

There is an interesting nugget here. But rather than follow a Zeus, Hercules, blah blah balh option I would have a character generation mechanism that ties them to an archetype. This kind of works in the Mythago Wood vein (great book by the way). So characters take on an aspect of myth, the Lone Hunter, the Wise Hermit, the Proud King, etc etc , this all ties into the Tarot cards where the major arcana give you archetypes and the court carts give you individuals based on the cross over between elelments. It all gets a bit Jungian but i reckon you could easily incorporate mythic elements into character design as opposed to a patheon of mythic characters.

So if you take Robin Hood. Robin has lots of archetypal mythic elements, the Dispossed Noble, the Peasant Hero, the One Good Man. You see the same archetypes in William Tell, Zorro, even the legends of Geronimo and Jesse James (as opposed to the reality of Geronimo and Jesse James which are a separate issue). Now if you could find a way to take that archetypal aspect and incorporate it into the character generation process that would be interesting.

I do this in my own Amber games already. Players may not notice but when I get their PCs I do a brief write up from the perspective of an NPC (http://www.jibbajibba.com/amber/family_tree/index.html) in which I emphasize the archetypal form of the PC, as well as getting in some NPC character vox. To me this is very Amberesque, without being specificially Amber. It also fits the Shakespearian link as Billy boy's best characters are archetypal.

[ikay]

I'm just grateful there is something going on on this front. I feel I will have to break my self-imposed rule of no more new RPG-books in the future!

Thanks for all the work, Qwilion and JDurall. And thanks for keeping us posted as well!

[steelmax73]

There is an interesting nugget here. But rather than follow a Zeus, Hercules, blah blah   balh option I would have a character generation mechanism that ties them to an archetype. This kind of works in the Mythago Wood vein (great book by the way). So characters take on an aspect of myth, the Lone Hunter, the Wise Hermit, the Proud King, etc etc   , this all ties into the Tarot cards where the major arcana give you archetypes and the court carts give you individuals based on the cross over between elelments. It all gets a bit Jungian but i reckon you could easily incorporate mythic elements into character design as opposed to a patheon of mythic characters.

Really my main concern is making accessible the setting and ability for people to buy into it. much like how D&D and Vampire are easily for the vast majority of gamers to grasp the core tropes.

[Qwilion]

I feel I will have to break my self-imposed rule of no more new RPG-books in the future!

I hope so

Thanks for all the work, Qwilion and JDurall. And thanks for keeping us posted as well!

Your quite welcome this has been a dream of mine for some time! Things are coming together nicely.


Steve Russell
Rite Publishing

[Jason D]

Making the characters be derived from gods of real myth and folklore could make them more interesting.

I will not be doing that, as I think it leads to pigeonholing them. Once you go "Oh... that guy is Thor", it's hard to add nuance to them. I'm hoping that any characters will draw on classic archetypes, but in the same way Zelazny did, in a more subtle fashion, though association and personality traits, playing against the obvious whenever appropriate.

[Qwilion]

One half of Diceless by Design has approved our licence request, with one minor change which we are happy to make.

[steelmax73]

I don't want to be a nay sayer so early on and will probably be one of the first to give money. but my main concern is that the new game will be more of a amber supplement. I am sure the fear is probably unfounded.