Question followed by answers.
Let me see if I can look it up and get back to you.
//Panjumanju
Appreciated.
So, bad news - that article is in AmberZine number 7, and I don't have that one. Everything I can find online about it says it was just a discussion of good stuff / bad stuff. You could try hunting down the author, Jack Gulick, although I have no idea where you'd start.
Unless someone here with more AmberZine issues than I have wants to weigh in?
Good luck.
//Panjumanju
Quote from: Panjumanju;829196Everything I can find online about it says it was just a discussion of good stuff / bad stuff.
Yes, that's precisely why I'm looking for more detailed information. As far as I know AmberZines included mostly campaign diaries and such, while this article seems interesting as a pre-internet era system analysis.
I read a few of them and the more interesting and valuable thing (for me of course) was the answers posted by Eric to the questions sent by the readers. As usual very inspiring.
I elaborate quite a bit about Luck (the equivalent of 'stuff') in Lords of Olympus; quite a lot of that was at least an indirect product of interactions with Erick Wujcik.
Quote from: Panjumanju;829196So, bad news - that article is in AmberZine number 7, and I don't have that one.
I have the whole run of Amberzines and just need to remember to do this when I'm at home. I'll try to get to it ASAP.
Quote from: belabor;827126I came across some references to this article and it inspired my interest. However, Amberzine is pretty much out of reach for me. Could someone familiar with it summarize this article's main points, please?
Okay, here's the scoop. It is in Amberzine #7 and while it's a 5-page thing that makes it pretty short since Amberzine is in digest size.
The intro (written by Erick, I assume) says "an essay questioning the validity of the link between Stuff and character personality -- the idea that good and evil are somehow linked to luck."
In reality, much of it is a campaign-log style story.
Pages 7-8 are story.
Page 9 starts by noting that good stuff equates to good guy according to the ADRP rulebook, then asks if this fits Amber where lots of selfish characters also seem lucky. Gives some examples.
Page 10 tries to build a case that Stuff and good/bad ought to be seperate mechanics in Amber.
Page 11 ties it all together by discussing the motivations of the characters in the author's own short story that led off the article.
I guess it comes down to how each GM wants to run Stuff. Bottom line is that the article is short and doesn't deliver as much BAM! as I'd hoped for in re-reading. If you want to buy Amberzine #7 for its general content, go for it. On the other hand, don't buy it just for this one little article.
Thanks.
I thought that good stuff meant that you were lucky and perceived as good. Bad stuff meant you were unlucky, distrusted, distrustful, and had a tendency to perceive the world inaccurately.
Good characters could have either. Bad characters could have either.
Mandor, Luke and, I think, none of the elder Amberites had good stuff.
Jurt, obviously, and Jasra, had bad stuff. I think Flora had zero stuff.
Of course, all this just leads to a slightly different question:: how do you get characters that have bad stuff and charm, or good stuff and yet are jerks?
A little bit of Bad Stuff gives you that Bad Boy/Girl air, too much and you are an A-Hole
Oh yeah! And one friend for each point of good stuff, one enemy for each point of bad stuff.
If there's one thing I've consistently ignored in the Amber rules it's that idea about good stuff = good guy/bad stuff= bad guy.
Conciser this Good Guys with Bad Stuff, just from Cinema I can think of two
Detective John McClane (Die Hard)
Ash J Williams (Evil Dead)
both are at times charming Asses who bad things keep happening to, especially McClane their lives are Blessed with Suck, despite being heroic good guys.
Sir Brad makes a good point. Stuff can be interpreted as good guy versus bad guy, but it doesn't have to be so simple. As with most things in ADRP, the character concept may trump a base rules interpretation.
In literature there are many good guys who constantly have bad things happen to them. There's a certain style of doom and gloom that goes with this, but in the right hands it can play out just fine.
John and Ash strike me as characters who's players over bought and had to take a bit of Bad Stuff to balance the books and need to buy off the bad stuff with XP.
their GM's used Bad Stuff to push the stories and since they weren't dragged down the dark path, unlike say the Watchman's "The Comedian" (a morally ambiguous character with Bad Stuff) or "Ozymandias" (misguided fallen hero whos delusions drew him to Villainy, but with Good Stuff).
The "good/bad/zero" tags on stuff have nothing to do with the characters actions, personality, and character concept. All that comes from the player.
Stuff describes how the universe in general reacts to them, which has nothing to do with the character concept. If you are looking at 'stuff' as some sort of character trait, then all the Amberites should have negative stuff, because really they all are A-holes to some degree.
The only way to ignore good/neutral/bad stuff would be to disallow negative stuff at all. Otherwise players can take as much negative stuff as they want with no penalty.
No not the only way.
I use good and bad stuff as selling away part of the characters background.
I put bad things in for bad stuff like being a child of Amber incest between elders which if found out is death to them. (Ancient Oberon rule still on the books)
Or their teacher and mentor is lying to them about something important.
I use it as a player chosen more than normal screw you.
Good stuff works opposite. I might give them an ally they don't know about or some bit of plot shifting info.
Nice thing is I don't feel a need to spend them until I know what serves as the best hook. So if you have a lot them I can spend them one at a time for extra plot complications or help during the game.
That's a viable alternative to me :) Or at least it works for me.
Also the players never know if and when the shoe will drop on Bad stuff so they are very wary of taking it.
only hard part is keeping it personal with the people being screwed are only the ones who took it and not screw over the group.