Amber without Castle Amber

[Nihilistic Mind]

Imagine that the Castle is either inaccessible or destroyed or whatever...
Or it is lost in Shadow, can't be found, whatever.

Either way, the Amberites don't have a throne. They don't have a power center. They don't have a common prestigious position (such as King of Amber).

Do you imagine that without Oberon the Elder Amberites would bother forming a new Center of All Things? Or would they scatter to various Shadows of their desire and remain apart, keeping contact as needed?

[Bird_of_Ill_Omen]

Imagine that the Castle is either inaccessible or destroyed or whatever...
Or it is lost in Shadow, can't be found, whatever.

Either way, the Amberites don't have a throne. They don't have a power center. They don't have a common prestigious position (such as King of Amber).

Do you imagine that without Oberon the Elder Amberites would bother forming a new Center of All Things? Or would they scatter to various Shadows of their desire and remain apart, keeping contact as needed?

First question is:  Is the Pattern still there, or did it go away with the castle?

If the Pattern IS there, then everyone starts making cabals and fights over who gets to build a new castle over it.

If the Pattern ISN'T there, then everyone starts making cabals and racing to either draw a new Pattern or finding out where the old Pattern went.

These questions aside, to answer what I think is the spirit of the question, I'd say that a few of them definitely try to form their own Center of All Things and get as many family allies as they can to support their efforts.  If the old castle is gone, it's a perfect opportunity to build a fresh new one that doesn't have the old Oberon stench on it.

[RPGPundit]

That's a very interesting question, and one that I agree would hinge on whether the Pattern was still available as a power, of course.  (though the question would also be whether the Pattern was physically accessible, and whether Amber itself was physically accessible).

If its just the Castle that's lost, the Amberites might just continue on in Amber; or Rebma (with its pattern) might become the new center of power.

If all of Amber (including Rebma) was out of reach but the pattern still worked as such, then I might see various amberites forming into different blocs and basing themselves in different shadows, mostly in the Golden Circle (though some might choose Earth).

RPGPundit

[Nihilistic Mind]

You guys are thinking in the same terms as I am... If the Pattern is around, the Amberites will probably continue to protect it.

I always wondered why they stuck to Amber after finding out it was only the first reflection.

Corwin's narrative really draws the broad strokes of the Amberites' love of Amber as their land, and the castle is obviously a big part of that.

And without Pattern, or a center of things or any of that, I could imagine the Amberites actually parting from each other and founding their own legacies, dynasties, all apart from the center of things... Somewhat like the Courts of Chaos, if those families were to reconnect somehow. How very interesting

[gabriel_ss4u]

You guys are thinking in the same terms as I am... If the Pattern is around, the Amberites will probably continue to protect it.

I always wondered why they stuck to Amber after finding out it was only the first reflection. **

Corwin's narrative really draws the broad strokes of the Amberites' love of Amber as their land, and the castle is obviously a big part of that.

And without Pattern, or a center of things or any of that, I could imagine the Amberites actually parting from each other and founding their own legacies, dynasties, all apart from the center of things... Somewhat like the Courts of Chaos, if those families were to reconnect somehow. How very interesting ;***)

** it is a good ploy/defense to the enemies to let them think it is the main Pattern if they stay there @ the 1st Shadow, if it must be gotten to through that 1st shadow anyways. Only a very few knew of the true Pattern

*** This would be Chaos's dream, to divide them and conquer them.
I don't see it happening without a serious backlash from the existing PowerInCharge, which is why the Amberites will most likely restore Amber as best they can depending on the state/status of the Pattern.

[RPGPundit]

You guys are thinking in the same terms as I am... If the Pattern is around, the Amberites will probably continue to protect it.

I always wondered why they stuck to Amber after finding out it was only the first reflection.

Corwin's narrative really draws the broad strokes of the Amberites' love of Amber as their land, and the castle is obviously a big part of that.

And without Pattern, or a center of things or any of that, I could imagine the Amberites actually parting from each other and founding their own legacies, dynasties, all apart from the center of things... Somewhat like the Courts of Chaos, if those families were to reconnect somehow. How very interesting

Yeah, I have to wonder if the whole "Amber is the truest place, we love it so.." shit that Corwin pulls is seriously believed by most Amberites, even Corwin himself. The truth is that Amber matters because its where the Pattern is, and the Pattern is power.

RPGPundit

[weilide]

Yeah, I have to wonder if the whole "Amber is the truest place, we love it so.." shit that Corwin pulls is seriously believed by most Amberites, even Corwin himself. The truth is that Amber matters because its where the Pattern is, and the Pattern is power.

RPGPundit

I have to imagine that some care about it a lot more than others. The obvious example is Brand, who clearly didn't give a damn. On the other hand, it doesn't strike me as completely unreasonable that most of the more or less emotionally stable Amberites should care about the place a great deal. It makes good emotional sense to me that a stable homeland should be very important to beings who otherwise tend to occupy a shifting, ephemeral universe.

[charis]

I have to imagine that some care about it a lot more than others. The obvious example is Brand, who clearly didn't give a damn. On the other hand, it doesn't strike me as completely unreasonable that most of the more or less emotionally stable Amberites should care about the place a great deal. It makes good emotional sense to me that a stable homeland should be very important to beings who otherwise tend to occupy a shifting, ephemeral universe.

That's a very good point. For instance, Corwins Avalon fell. I'm sure the same can happen to other shadows where they end up just never being the same as they once were. Knowing that Amber will always be there for you, even if you never stay there often, would have to be some form of comfort.

[two_fishes]

I like the idea. Whether or not they were sincere, I could see at least some of the Amberites getting all Psalm 137 over it.

[RPGPundit]

Someone pointed out that technically Amber is only the first reflection; that's true, but I think the reason the Amberites don't all move on down to the Primal Pattern is mainly because it seems from the descriptions to be a bit of a shithole as far as comfortable places to live are concerned. And really, the Primal Pattern is just a hop skip and jump away from Castle Amber for those who know how to get there.

RPGPundit

[weilide]

Someone pointed out that technically Amber is only the first reflection; that's true, but I think the reason the Amberites don't all move on down to the Primal Pattern is mainly because it seems from the descriptions to be a bit of a shithole as far as comfortable places to live are concerned. And really, the Primal Pattern is just a hop skip and jump away from Castle Amber for those who know how to get there.

RPGPundit

I suppose the initial decision must have been Dworkin's or Oberon's. Is it possible that one of the factors was that the plane of the primal pattern is somehow resistant to change and therefore development? As in, it's one thing to essentially fill Dworkin's preexisting cave with junk, but it's quite another to change the landscape to the degree required by the creation of Castle Amber and environs.

[Nihilistic Mind]

I suppose the initial decision must have been Dworkin's or Oberon's. Is it possible that one of the factors was that the plane of the primal pattern is somehow resistant to change and therefore development? As in, it's one thing to essentially fill Dworkin's preexisting cave with junk, but it's quite another to change the landscape to the degree required by the creation of Castle Amber and environs.

I think that makes sens: Amber being the First Shadow, and mostly malleable by Dworkin, maybe even Oberon. It was a plot point in a Courts of Chaos-centric FtF campaign I ran a few years back: Oberon kept Dworkin around because of his influence over Amber and imprisoned him for the same reasons.

[Evermasterx]

Someone pointed out that technically Amber is only the first reflection; that's true, but I think the reason the Amberites don't all move on down to the Primal Pattern is mainly because it seems from the descriptions to be a bit of a shithole as far as comfortable places to live are concerned. And really, the Primal Pattern is just a hop skip and jump away from Castle Amber for those who know how to get there.

RPGPundit

Maybe that Dworkin made a working copy of the Pattern to carry on his experiments and building castle Amber. So the Primal Pattern was the "master copy", not to play with. When the castle was completed, Dworkin and Oberon let everybody use that copy of the Pattern, keeping the other safe, and pretending it was the true pattern, until Brand discovered this was not the case.