Amber: is it all GM Advice?

[James McMurray]

I haven't finished reading the book (All Flesh Must Be Eaten is up first) but from reading the threads here it seems like there is really only rule: high number wins. Everything else (multiple opponents, situational modifiers, difficulty of using powers, etc.) is put on the GM;s head.

If this is wrong just tell me, and I'll learn more when I finally get around to reading more.

[Arref]

The game includes a complex juggling of opportunity and real imagination. You have to think your way ahead of coming difficulties.

For the quick summary, the high attribute wins.

But:
—some attributes are faster than others
—some secret information might create a "dirty trick" or unlevel conflict
—some unexpected help might arrive from a relative
—and there's always good stuff and bad stuff to complicate things
—and the family game must be played... meaning the family stops just short of killing in most any case. Letting everyone know and remember who won the day is usually regarded as a higher feat than mortal wounds.

There's lots of guides in the rulebook. You might have to read between the lines for some of them.

[James McMurray]

Any of them have numeric values tied to them? The thing is that Amber is already going to be a hard sell to my group because there's no dice involved. If there's also no way to gauge modifiers they may not want to play at all.

[RPGPundit]

Yes; I think the quantum leap between people who understand how cool Amber is and those who don't is covered largely by the difference between those who have thoroughly read the book and those who haven't, and by those who have tried a game and those who have not.

The common argument of "its just high number wins" betrays a failure to have read the book or played the game.  In your case, you're honestly asking because you haven't looked at the book; I'd suggest taking that as a first step and you're likely to see how in practice, its way more than just that.

RPGPundit

[James McMurray]

Because nobody could actually just not like the game, huh? Your propaganda isn't needed here, I'm already on your side.

[Otha]

James, there's really no clear guidelines in the book about how much value to put on things like dirty tricks, good stuff/bad stuff, assistance, etc etc etc.  The Gamemaster has to figure it all out for himself and try to be consistent about it from conflict to conflict.  A great deal of the system is created by the participants at the table, far more than most RPG's you'll be familiar with.  As a result, the quality of play depends even more on the quality of player (and GM) than most games.

[RPGPundit]

Because nobody could actually just not like the game, huh? Your propaganda isn't needed here, I'm already on your side.

Of course people could not like this game. Anyone who's too lily-livered to think they could cut it playing or GMing Amber it probably "won't like it", as a defence measure. So, yes, cowards of low mental and social fibre will dislike the game.

If they are Swine to boot, they will DESPISE this game, because it will show up just how false all of their own claims about their own games really are; particularly WW-style Story-based Swine who like to think that Vampire is all about "intrigue" and sophisticated plotting, and Amber wipes the floor with them on that without all the useless pseudoartistic posturing.  Other Swine will mostly hate Amber just because its innovative and original while being humble, without pretentiousness, again showing up just how much their favourite game is all pretense and no substance).  They will hate Amber because it advocates a strong-GM game without falling into all of the story-based errors that Vampire & Co. did, they'll hate it because it shows how you can do more with less mechanic, rather than having to have some kind of gimmicky system. They'll hate it because it isn't twee. They'll hate it because it isn't pretentious.

Mostly though, they'll hate it because its better than anything they've ever done, and deep down, they know this to be true.

RPGPundit

[James McMurray]

Are you always a moron, or just when you're around other people?

[finarvyn]

Amber is all about trust.

I know this sounds wrong, since the goal in Amber appears to be that of stabbing your siblings in the back to get what you want.

I'm not talking about game goals, but system goals. Amber is about trust in that everyone who plays needs to trust the GM to be fair. If a person gets a particular edge at one point in the campaign, it's certain that the same person will get pounded somewhere else. If it doesn't work this way then the players will eventually not trust the GM and the system falls apart because someone will always feel picked on.

Trust that the GM will interpret events as fairly as possible, then determine an outcome that advances the storyline approprately. If you want to work the system or min/max a character, just stay home.

That's part of what makes Amber so tough to play and so tough to run. Players have to know that not everything will always work out for everyone. Sometimes a character goes through a lot of pain before emerging triumphant.

[SunBoy]

Gentlemen, I really feel a shower of crap coming my way after I say this, but here it goes... I do not find Amber a difficult game to run or play. Before you start the turd throwing, please read on. I think that, after grasping the initial concept of the whole thing, the difficult part is exactly the same as the difficult part of running anything were you can't just center your game on hack & slash. Elaborating. DMingDude throws a party, and after a few beers the gang begs him to put togheter a few monsters, two or three pit traps, a dozen funny NPCs

...and the occasional boobies...

...thank you, and the occasional boobies, and run two elves, a weezer and a lesbian-chaotic-evil-half-fiend-charisma-22 drow priestess through some good ole wench-killing-orc-raping D&D. Fine. If you've been DMing for as much as a few months, you can do it with your hands closed and your eyes behind your back. Now let's say the party is at GMingBloke's flat, and after three beers and a joint each the gang (including DMingDude, who's visiting), bribes him into running Xaviero, d'Artagnan, Gerry the Strongman, that chap who just doesn't get tired and a few slow siblings through some family slaughterin' crown war. Well, just as easy. Really. The part of Amber that's hard will be hard if you are running Amber, D&D, VtM, WtF (I love the acronym), Over the Edge or even the bloody excellent Risus. The nice plotline, the believable situations and, most important of all, the NPCs.
The system, as always, is a matter of taste.
And, as for playing it... well, I think playing it may be harder than running it, if you are talking of the "traditional" competitive playstyle, and if it's well directed.
What may make Amber seem harder, it's the fact that, let's face it, if you are playing D&D with some at least barely experienced players, and the DM is not a complete retard, it can be fun. Well, now, with Amber, you need the GM to be good for it to be fun. And I'm not talking about him making lightning fast on-the-spot calls in a battle. That you learn. I'm talking of him being able to really make you believe that that redhead bastard is telling you the truth, to get you thinking, "oh, boy, how I'd like to screw Flora", to play a charming Bleys who doesn't stop smiling while making a brochette out of you, to portrait an  unreadable yet menacing and deeply human Benedict, and of course, if Corwin is around, to stick without guilt 23 feet of trouble up your proverbial arse. Mate, that Zelazny chap was good.

[gabriel_ss4u]

Oooooo, I like this.
Thought I'd go to one of the oldest threads and try to revive it.

I'm in agreement with the Uruguay crowd.

My GM was running Amber style play in AD&D long before Amber became a game.
He was doing it AD&D rules, but later incorporated his own style in it.
It came of alot like ADRP.
He was going to create his own gaming system, but that's when the StarWars game came out, echoing alot of what he was going to do.
(This was all a year or so before I met him)
I've always said, if you can pace a good story, throwing good twists in the plot, with good timing, and read your players well, you could GM anything, provided you have an imagination and understanding of the system you're running.

I agree with Pundit's idea that those who have read the novels and played in a game will always be able to understand this system better than those who haven't. It's only logical, and truly, it's the least a player can do.
The first time I played, I hadn't read the books, but the other 4 players had, and I played well enough off their cues. Also, I did read the Moorcock books so I based my character off the Melnibonian mythos, which fell in line easily enough with Amber's Chaos.
Any GM that wants to run this game, owes it to their players to read the series, and multiple readings can only help.
AAMOF, I think the least any GM should have read the Amber series is 3x, you really can't grasp some of the nuances of it until you get those 1st 2 reading accomplished, from there it keeps adding.
I also agree that this IS the greatest game made. Sure, there are kinks in the system, but it has the greatest way to work it out. Shut up and keep playing.
Trust, as was said, is a key to the success of this game.
To those who think the GM has too much power;
I once told one of my GM's that I found it unfair that he give all the players (in game play) a set of trumps for their generation, when I was one of the only 2 Trump artists in the game, of 9 players.
I felt he was making my power obsolete as a bargaining tool, I mean, they didn't need me as much, since they had some trumps to start off with.
He told me to do something about it... in gameplay.
Which I did. I was motivated to correct this unfair act in character.
Being that the PCs all came back after their days of training to find those newest trumps on their bed, awaiting them, i simply created a trump case, w/ trump image, with spell to lock, and named & numbered. Then went about placing them on their beds.
I then later planned to trump all their trumps to me once they placed them sucuredly in the case.
They never questioned the trumps, so they never ended up questioning the trump cases, until it was too late.
Once again, My trump skills were needed.

If you have any problems with the Gm and his decisions, it is best to try to resolve them in game play, I think.

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