Amber DRPG sans Zelazny

[Croaker]

Wait...but...you're not walking between different Middle-Earth shadows, are you?

Overall I think a LotR conversion is a cool idea. But I do not see how Pattern or Logres could possibly apply.

//Panjumanju

lol No, of course not.

Like I said, this was done in about 5 minutes, so you shouldn't poke at it too hard

But IMO, probability manipulation is a great way to model middle earth magic. Slow, not flashy, but potent, and more potent as you take time to build effects fits very well. And the Blood Curse (or benediction) similarly fits very well, too.

Logrus and shapeshift shouldn't be used, I wrote it near the end

[RPGPundit]

Anyways, I think there's plenty proof that if GoT is selling well, Amber could sell well as a TV series too.  You'd just need to get a tv exec knowing it exists.

I can bet you that as we speak there are half a dozen different original and licensed Game-of-Thrones-Clones being worked on, most of which will entirely miss the point of what makes the actual series popular.. but hey, that's Hollywood for you.

RPGPundit

[jibbajibba]

Anyways, I think there's plenty proof that if GoT is selling well, Amber could sell well as a TV series too.  You'd just need to get a tv exec knowing it exists.

I can bet you that as we speak there are half a dozen different original and licensed Game-of-Thrones-Clones being worked on, most of which will entirely miss the point of what makes the actual series popular.. but hey, that's Hollywood for you.

RPGPundit

I would expect there to be a slew of fantasy series and movie deals in the works due to LotR, Harry Potter and GoT but I haven't really seen it. You woudl have thought that The Belgariad, the Magician Series, the Chronicles of Thomas Covernant, the Druss books, the New Sun stuff, the Black Company etc etc would all have been snapped up  but I haven't seen the evidence.
Maybe John Carter was a bit of a bloody nose, maybe there are still enough Rom Coms and action movies staring Statham or Gerard Butler

[RPGPundit]

Give them time. These are big productions.

RPGPundit

[Croaker]

I'm not holding my breath.

Worse, if this were done, I fear this might fall into the pit trap that GoT escaped by virtue of its (mostly) not fantastic setting, that is, put more money into cheap SFX than into actual writing (Peter Jackson style).

I'd love to see some of these brought to the screen (I'm a diehard fan of the Black Company), but I prefer never seeing them than seeing them done like the sword of truth (Ok, actually, the base material was, IMO, shitty to begin with, but, nonetheless, the series is dreadful)

[RPGPundit]

I'm not holding my breath.

Worse, if this were done, I fear this might fall into the pit trap that GoT escaped by virtue of its (mostly) not fantastic setting, that is, put more money into cheap SFX than into actual writing (Peter Jackson style).

Yes, now that is something I'd worry about! A "New adventures of Corwin" in full xena-style!

RPGPundit

[Tolknor]

I would expect there to be a slew of fantasy series and movie deals in the works due to LotR, Harry Potter and GoT but I haven't really seen it. You would have thought that The Belgariad, the Magician Series, the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, the Druss books, the New Sun stuff, the Black Company etc etc would all have been snapped up  but I haven't seen the evidence.

I am a huge fan of the Black Company series but would hate to see a hatchet job on it like SyFy did to Riverworld or Earthsea. Same for the Amber series.   Its a pity they can make a big budget of something like Jack and the Beanstalk but not some really good ones.  I would love to see a well made series for the Foundation Series or Ring World.  Covenant would be great visually but i never liked Thomas himself.  Kept wanting bad things to happen to him.  

Maybe someone needs to wrap up copies of the first Amber series, the first 3 Black Company series and the first 5 of the Belgariad, and hand them to Peter Jackson in person.

[Croaker]

Maybe someone needs to wrap up copies of the first Amber series, the first 3 Black Company series and the first 5 of the Belgariad, and hand them to Peter Jackson in person.

Well, I wouldn't want that.

He has shown a tendancy to make good fantastical movies, but crappy adaptations. He seems to think that his vision is better than the author, and that he can improve the books.

I don't mind at all the cuts, or minor alterations (like glorfindel being replaced by Arwen) that make the story shorter or easier to tell. These are at worst understandable, and don't change the spirit of the story.

But I HATE with a passion the added fantastic scenes designed to display cheap sfx (Theoden possessed by Saruman, anyone), or the things that he changed just because he thought it better (Why not leave Faramir as he was? Why bring Frodo to Osgiliath?). And it could have been worse. He wanted a final fight between Aragorn and Sauron (you can see it in the bonuses), and was barely dettered from it.

=> I have no real problems with the first movie, but the second and third are worse and worst.

Compare to, say, Nolan's Batman Movies (who, despite being a huge melting pot, respect the spirit of some Batman comics), Sin City, or Watchmen, all showing much greater respect for the source material

If Peter Jackson did Amber? I wouldn't be surprised to see Brand and Fiona tossing fireballs at each other, or Corwin having a final swordfight with Brand amidst pists of flame.

[Tolknor]

Well, I wouldn't want that.

He has shown a tendancy to make good fantastical movies, but crappy adaptations. He seems to think that his vision is better than the author, and that he can improve the books.

I don't mind at all the cuts, or minor alterations (like glorfindel being replaced by Arwen) that make the story shorter or easier to tell. These are at worst understandable, and don't change the spirit of the story.

But I HATE with a passion the added fantastic scenes designed to display cheap sfx (Theoden possessed by Saruman, anyone), or the things that he changed just because he thought it better (Why not leave Faramir as he was? Why bring Frodo to Osgiliath?). And it could have been worse. He wanted a final fight between Aragorn and Sauron (you can see it in the bonuses), and was barely dettered from it.

=> I have no real problems with the first movie, but the second and third are worse and worst.

Compare to, say, Nolan's Batman Movies (who, despite being a huge melting pot, respect the spirit of some Batman comics), Sin City, or Watchmen, all showing much greater respect for the source material

If Peter Jackson did Amber? I wouldn't be surprised to see Brand and Fiona tossing fireballs at each other, or Corwin having a final swordfight with Brand amidst pists of flame.

Sure, i can see it.  I was more pissed about Arwen being a major character.  Though, casting Liz Tyler as an elf certainly made sense.    As for Theoden, it was irritating to see him all glassy eyed but how do you explain Wormtounges control to the public as anything other then magic?  I snickered at it though.   I certainly understood not including things like the Barrowwrights and Bombadil.  I think that having Suron and Aragorn fight would have made me laugh so hard i might not have been able to control myself.

Now that you mention it I think the Amber series and Black Company would be better with a more dark look, like Watchman.  Certainly both do need a closer attention to the written details then marketability.  

I've always wanted to run ADRG in a Black Company setting...One of my players pulled Lady out as a daughter of Benedict.  She was very careful about it and as a huge fan of the series too she did it well.

[Croaker]

As for Theoden, it was irritating to see him all glassy eyed but how do you explain Wormtounges control to the public as anything other then magic?

Well, Magic in Middle Earth is (usually) subtle.

A lot of people didn't trust wormtongue, and he didn't "controled" anyone.
But he spoke. Of their fears. Telling them not to take undue risks. That they are tired, and should rest. This is a something we all can do.

There is absolutely no need of any magic for wormtongue, just honeyed words lulling them into complacency. If there was magic, it was there, in his words, increasing men's fear of danger, their lack of confidence, giving more power to his words... but nothing as crude as "control".

And certainly nothing as Sarumane possessing Theoden, with Gandalf doing a full-on exorcism.

[finarvyn]

I was more pissed about Arwen being a major character. Though, casting Liz Tyler as an elf certainly made sense.

I was (and still am) of mixed minds on this.

On one hand, I think that a "pure" Tolkien movie would have been great. I love the books and think that a movie that exactly followed them would have been a great movie.

On the other hand, Tolkien's writing was a product of his era and today's audience may not respond as well to it. Arwen is a prime example. My teenaged daughter thought that Arwen was great, dressed as Arwen for halloween, started reciting elvish phrases she memorized from the movie, and generally fell in love with the Lord of the Rings. I don't think she would have loved the movie much at all without Arwen, and I suspect that many other girls are the same way. It's the whole "Disney Princess" thing. If you want a movie that attracts lots of modern viewers you need to have enough female characters who actually do things so that they stay interested.

Anyway, my two cents.

[jibbajibba]

I was (and still am) of mixed minds on this.

On one hand, I think that a "pure" Tolkien movie would have been great. I love the books and think that a movie that exactly followed them would have been a great movie.

On the other hand, Tolkien's writing was a product of his era and today's audience may not respond as well to it. Arwen is a prime example. My teenaged daughter thought that Arwen was great, dressed as Arwen for halloween, started reciting elvish phrases she memorized from the movie, and generally fell in love with the Lord of the Rings. I don't think she would have loved the movie much at all without Arwen, and I suspect that many other girls are the same way. It's the whole "Disney Princess" thing. If you want a movie that attracts lots of modern viewers you need to have enough female characters who actually do things so that they stay interested.

Anyway, my two cents.

Aside from lost Aragorn and the multiple endings I thought the movies were great made with real love and attention to detail.

But beside the point. I dinelt knwo Syfy had done earthsea or Riverworld. How bad were they ? They did have rights to Amber for a while so ....
Worst ever conversion of a fantasy book is without a down Tarnsman or Gor even though it has Jack Palance and Oliver Reed in it, what is more shocking is they actually made a sequel and Pqalance was in that as well.

[RPGPundit]

I think that I would prefer having the guys who are currently doing the "game of thrones" TV series doing Amber, as a tv series, rather than Peter Jackson making a movie of it.

RPGPundit

[Artifacts of Amber]

I think a series is the only way to go, despite how fast the books flow. I think it needs a series to build and go with.

[Tolknor]

I think that I would prefer having the guys who are currently doing the "game of thrones" TV series doing Amber, as a tv series, rather than Peter Jackson making a movie of it.

RPGPundit

I have not seen game of thrones but the art direction i have seen is awesome.  I have friends who are wild about it.  I suspect i'll get the dvds someday.

As for syfy making Earthsea and Riverworld.. well.. i stopped watching earthsea after half an hour and was ---irritated.    I watched the Riverworld one because i loved the books greatly.  It was a pity that the people who wrote the screenplay for SyFy only read the back covers of the books.    Maybe a page or two, and thought the book cover art was pretty..... grumble.....   What a wasted opportunity.  They had some kind of spy story going on.  people resurrected dressed and periodically.   awful.  There are 2 riverworld movies though.  one, the above one, was in 2010 for syfy.  the other was in 2003 and while i saw it on syfy i don't know if they made it.  It was dreadful as well but at least it had a pretty boat in it.

Most likely the screenwriters for both movies read all the books and said, separately, "Heck, this Farmer guy really messed this up .  I can do so much better."    They didn't.