Amber DRPG sans Zelazny

[jibbajibba]

Really? With the current megasuccess of Game of Thrones, you can't see any place for an ensemble cast fantasy epic full of scheming bastards?

RPGPundit

Like I said TV is the place for it but I am dubious. It might work as I said up post becuase it has that Lost style slowly exposing layers of truth, kind of vibe, but  think after GoT the studious will be looking for the next thing not doing another of them. Epic TV seems to like new-ness in the same vein more than more of he same please. So Lost gave us Prison Break same concept where we get flashback and layers of reality but different setting and I think that cycle is run.
Wire gave us tangled plots with layers of protagonists and the bad guys are sometime good and the good bad. Maybe that and Soparaons lead to Got and Camelot and Borgias but the failure of the last two means that the next epic show is going to be more Homeland than Homer land if you know what i mean.

I would love to be wrong.  5 x 10 episode series for the Corwin Chronicles staring Christian Slater as Random, Damian Lewis as Brand, Viggo as Benedict and an Unknown as Corwin facing down Kevin Tod Smith's Eric would be great just a shame we can't resurect Ollie Reid to play Ganelon....

[RPGPundit]

The thing is, I think that Game of Thrones is the current "hot" topic, but I'm not sure if its success will extend to other settings of a similar nature. Especially a property from the 1970's that hasn't shown much coolness in a long time.

In other words, I suspect that the "next Game of Thrones" will get big enthusiasm before Amber because Amber would be seen as something that's no longer relevant.

I don't see why. There's nothing in Amber that's particularly outdated (Except maybe some computer things related to Merlin).

[RTrimmer]

I played in an Amber campaign with a lot of Gormenghast elements. It would have worked better if we'd known that that would be the flavor of the thing and made appropriate characters. Corwin-series type characters are in for a lot of frustration in a Gormy setting.

[Sydius Mendoza]

I don't see why. There's nothing in Amber that's particularly outdated (Except maybe some computer things related to Merlin).

Agreed. It's not that the material is outdated or lacking relevance. It is more a matter of public awareness/access to the material. I first "discovered" the series about 15 years ago. My Dad has an entire bookshelf (or two) full of sci-fi/fantasy. I was looking for something to read one day when I ran across NPiA. Within a week I had read the entire Corwin cycle and passed the books along to my best friend. I've been re-reading and recommending the series (and Zelazny in general) ever since.

Anytime I engage in a discussion about Fantasy literature with a new friend/aquaintance/co-worker/whatever, Roger Zelazny is one of the first names I bring up. Never under estimate the power of "word of mouth". I don't sit around bitching about how "No one knows about Amber anymore". I look for, make, and take ANY opportunity to turn people on to it.

[jibbajibba]

Agreed. It's not that the material is outdated or lacking relevance. It is more a matter of public awareness/access to the material. I first "discovered" the series about 15 years ago. My Dad has an entire bookshelf (or two) full of sci-fi/fantasy. I was looking for something to read one day when I ran across NPiA. Within a week I had read the entire Corwin cycle and passed the books along to my best friend. I've been re-reading and recommending the series (and Zelazny in general) ever since.

Anytime I engage in a discussion about Fantasy literature with a new friend/aquaintance/co-worker/whatever, Roger Zelazny is one of the first names I bring up. Never under estimate the power of "word of mouth". I don't sit around bitching about how "No one knows about Amber anymore". I look for, make, and take ANY opportunity to turn people on to it.

I had an oposite experience I read the series when I was 11 in '81 because they were in the school library. And was addicted from the first paragraph but it took me years to acquire my own copies and I only stumbled across the Merlin chronicles because I constantly searched bookshops looking for a copy of Jack of Shadows (never found one).
However I passed Nine Princes to a friend of mine that i consider has a great taste in fiction, he put me onto Abercrombie, Lynch and Martin after I had given up totally on fantasy. In any case he found the books riven with 1970s cliche, the romance, the dialogue the whle vibe put him off and he couldn't finish the Guns of Avalon.
So  I worry that the books may be dated...

[Sydius Mendoza]

I had an oposite experience I read the series when I was 11 in '81 because they were in the school library. And was addicted from the first paragraph but it took me years to acquire my own copies and I only stumbled across the Merlin chronicles because I constantly searched bookshops looking for a copy of Jack of Shadows (never found one).
However I passed Nine Princes to a friend of mine that i consider has a great taste in fiction, he put me onto Abercrombie, Lynch and Martin after I had given up totally on fantasy. In any case he found the books riven with 1970s cliche, the romance, the dialogue the whle vibe put him off and he couldn't finish the Guns of Avalon.
So  I worry that the books may be dated...

Sounds like a matter of personal preference. While I have gotten largely good feedback from the people I have recommended the Amber series to, the negative feedback always seems to come down to people who don't like first person narrative.

[Sydius Mendoza]

Also, while you are quite correct on the fact that finding Zelazny books in stores is difficult, the internet is the great equalizer.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_0_10?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=roger+zelazny&sprefix=Roger+Zela%2Caps%2C446

[Panjumanju]

Sounds like a matter of personal preference. While I have gotten largely good feedback from the people I have recommended the Amber series to, the negative feedback always seems to come down to people who don't like first person narrative.

My story is similar to yours. I propagate Zelazny wherever I go. However, the people who have felt negatively about Nine Princes have all said: "It was too confusing" - a criticism I cannot comprehend.

And didn't think Amber is outdated one bit. A good book is a good book. And there are new people discovering it all the time.

//Panjumanju

[jibbajibba]

Also, while you are quite correct on the fact that finding Zelazny books in stores is difficult, the internet is the great equalizer.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_0_10?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=roger+zelazny&sprefix=Roger+Zela%2Caps%2C446

Yup things are changing from when I wondered round the west end searching all the book stores in vain.

Trouble is of course Amazon don't deliver to Singapore so basically I have to stick with my e-book version

[RPGPundit]

Agreed. It's not that the material is outdated or lacking relevance. It is more a matter of public awareness/access to the material.

I don't think the majority of the general public had the foggiest idea that A Game of Thrones existed until the tv series became a megahit.

RPGPundit

[jibbajibba]

I don't think the majority of the general public had the foggiest idea that A Game of Thrones existed until the tv series became a megahit.

RPGPundit

Well the second and third volumes made the NY Times bestseller list back in 1999 /2000 and A feast for crows went stright into the list at number 1 in 2005 and in 2010 they issued the 34th reprint of Game of Thrones which menat over 1million papper back sales.  but you are probably right .....

[Croaker]

Funny, a few months ago, I did a rough outline for a friend, to demonstrate how ADRPG could easily be used to do a LOTR game, better than the existing games. This is rough, but you get the idea.

PCs are heroic, and get 100 points. Most NPCs get 0 points, and some may even get less (for exemple, a lowly, "cannon fodder" peasant will have negative points, forcing him to buy down his Strength and Warfare).

Ranks should be renamed for flavor, but that's all.
The normal level is human.
Someone who's gifted or had a little training would be chaos
Someone who's gifted + trained, or very experimented would be Amber rank.
Someone gifted and very experimented would be Ranked.

Everyone begins with all ranks at human, and buy up from here, save than...
- Elves have one Amber rank, and one Chaos rank in either Psyche or Warfare. They're considered as having one more rank for tasks relying on balance, or not leaving tracks. They can also walk on surfaces that shouldn't bear their weight.
- Hobbits begin with Chaos Psyché, and Amber Endurance. They get one more rank when being stealthy, or when resisting mental domination (not attacking!!).
- Dwarves have Chaos Strength, and Amber Endurance. They get one more rank for forge or stone cutting. They also begin with one free "1-point" item.
- Humans have Strength and Warfare at Chaos rank. They also get one more rank in any attribute of their chosing.
- Orks have Amber Strength, and Chaos Warfare.

- Karma works as before.
- Artefacts and créatures work as before, but artifacts costs 5 times as many points. Not everyone gets Anduril.
- Allies work as before.
- Shadows become Domains, and are used for things like Fondcombe (imladris), Lothlorien... Basic physical laws here can't be different, but Control of the realm is still possible, and represents the magic that imbues these lands, as well as their link to their rulers. They cost 5 times as much.
- Basic Pattern is available, and roughly works as it is (I should have made rules about how you must either sing or use some Item of Power as a focus, but I did this very quickly). It works very, very well to show the slow, but potent, nature of Middle Earth magic.
- Trumps become Clairvoyance. As in LoH, they don't allow travel, but only cost 20 points. Drawback: It can only be used either in an appropriate Domain (with the agreement of the Domain's Master), or with an appropriate artifact, such as a Palantir: 1 point item allows spying or communication with a fixed place or person, 2 points items allow a dozen persons/places (Others can be added on a case-by-case basis, if the character gets to know them well)'autres peuvent être ajoutés, si le personnage y a passé du temps ou les connait bien), and 4 points items allow spying or communication with whatever you want (like the Palantir)
- Compulsion costs 15 points, et works as usual.
- Conjuration still costs 20 points, but is renamed Enchantment (and this method is the only one that works, out of the corebook). A permanent enchantment can be created in 10 times the basic duration, if the character is present at every moment of the item's creation. Enchantment nonetheless allows temporary "blessings" on items, giving them qualities (max: 2 points), at a Karma cost equal to 2 times their point cost. The blessing must have a condition that make it expire ("until you reach Minas Tirith", "until you avenge your father"), but the character can stop it at any moment. When he does so, he gets back his Karma
- Logrus and Shapeshift should be disallowed, although shapeshift could exist in monsters from Morgoth or Sauron.

Trying this:
I'm doing an human.
Psyche Human, Strength Amber, Endurance Human, Warfare Chaos.
I'm using 30 points to get Psyche and Endurance to Chaos, 10 points to get Warfare to Amber
=> Psyche Chaos, Strength Amber, Endurance Chaos, Warfare Amber. I still have 40 points.
I'm bidding 30 points on both Str and Warfare
=> Psyche Chaos, Strength Ranked, Endurance Chaos, Warfare Ranked. I still have 10 points.
I buy the armor of my ancestors for (1*5) points, buy an ally for 6 points (say, gandalf), and am down with 1 point of negative karma.

The same guy could have spend boosted psyche instead, used 10 points to get it to Amber, 15 points in the psyche auction, 50 points for the pattern, and become one of the minor "powers" of middle earth, 20 points for Clairvoyance, and bought a basic Domain for 05 point

[Panjumanju]

- Basic Pattern is available, and roughly works as it is (I should have made rules about how you must either sing or use some Item of Power as a focus, but I did this very quickly). It works very, very well to show the slow, but potent, nature of Middle Earth magic.

Wait...but...you're not walking between different Middle-Earth shadows, are you?

Overall I think a LotR conversion is a cool idea. But I do not see how Pattern or Logres could possibly apply.

//Panjumanju

[RPGPundit]

Well the second and third volumes made the NY Times bestseller list back in 1999 /2000 and A feast for crows went stright into the list at number 1 in 2005 and in 2010 they issued the 34th reprint of Game of Thrones which menat over 1million papper back sales.  but you are probably right .....

Yeah but what does this mean in terms of the overall population who'd be familiar with it worldwide; before the TV show versus after it? Before it was certainly a hit in nerd circles; today its one of the most watched and most downloaded series in the world.

RPGPundit

[jibbajibba]

Yeah but what does this mean in terms of the overall population who'd be familiar with it worldwide; before the TV show versus after it? Before it was certainly a hit in nerd circles; today its one of the most watched and most downloaded series in the world.

RPGPundit

Means its as well known as any book that hasn't been turned into a movie or TV show I guess.
The NY Times bestseller list isn't limited to just nerds though.

Oh and its terms of viewed TVs shows its not even close to any of the dozens of Pop Idol reality TV show spin offs. I mean its a great show has 3million fans on Facebook and got peak audiences of 4m in the US but compared to the 60 million fans Harry Potter has or the 25m that watch American Idol each week meh...
The book is a best seller for a book of any type. The TV show is big with geeks
Does get lots of downloads round though that is partly about its distribution license and the face that geeks love to download shit