Amber characters and tropes in other games

[ColonelHardisson]

First, I realize that this is the Amber Diceless RPG forum, so if this post doesn't fit, I apologize.

Second, GURPS is a game the system of which is not my cup of tea, but the sourcebooks are really nifty for other games. I think the ADRP game makes for a really, really good sourcebook for those who wish to use Amber in their games, regardless of the system, much along the lines of the GURPS sourcebooks.

Given that the Amber books posit a milieu which is quite literally infinite in nature, it seems to me that Amber characters and tropes could show up in any game system. We see from the books that local physical laws vary between shadows, so it's no stretch to imagine that each different game system represents a different set of laws.

So, I figured I'd start a thread where we could discuss how other games could handle what we see in the Amber novels, using the ADRP as a handy reference.

I'll start off with an example. If I was going to use Amberites as NPCs (or even PCs) in a D&D campaign, I'd make a template for them. In my opinion, this is easy, because there is already a template that seems to fit them in Deities & Demigods: Divine Rank 0. Divine Rank 0 imparts these characteristics to whatever creature the template is applied to:

Immunity to transmutation, energy drain, ability drain, ability damage, and mind-affecting effects.

Damage reduction 10/epic

Fire resistance 5

Spell resistance 32

Immortality

Rename the template "Amberite" or "Scion of Amber," and you're good to go. Oh, I guess you could tweak it a little. Maybe amend it so that the immunities become resistances against effects caused by other Amberites. Fire resistance could be changed to Energy resistance or dropped. Add fast healing 5. Create a new ability, Slow Regeneration, to reflect the ability of Amberites to regrow even nerve tissue like eyes given a long time to heal.

[finarvyn]

I think my take on "D&D Amber" would be a little different. I'm not sure that I would use Deities & Demigods just because I hate to make Amberites that much better than normals.

Using the Merlin books as a model, it would appear that an Amberite is more like an olympic caliber athlete rather than a god, so I would be more inclined to put a typical Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution into the 16-18 range. (This also depends upon which version of D&D you play -- there is a clear stat inflation with successive editions so if you are looking at 3E this might get boosted a tad. I play OD&D or 1E AD&D and am thinking about stat scales more appropriate to those versions.)

What I would also do is probably start an Amberite out at 4th level or so adn perhaps a Chaosite at 3rd level. (In the older D&D versions they have "level titles" and 4th level is "hero" so I would assume that a typical Amberite is a lot like a hero in ability.) I would put together classes for Trump Artist, Pattern Walker, Shape Shifter, Fighter, Logrus Master, and so on. Put together BAB or THAC0, put in certain class abilites at specific levels, and go from there.

I started to do this once and got sidetracked somehow, so it never got finished. I can look to see if I can find my notes if there is interest.

[finarvyn]

I'm not a huge GURPS fan, but there are a couple of interesting points on how to combine GURPS with ADRP:

1. GURPS builds characters using 100 points, the same totals as ADRP suggests.

2. GURPS has 4 stats (IQ, STR, Health, and Dex) which are similar to ADRP's Psyche, Strength, Endurance, and Warfare.

This tells me that it would be probably easy to blend the two games together and import point values from the various sourcebooks. We'd get some sort of "Diceless GURPS" but that could be interesting as well.

Just my thinking....

[Arref]

I'll start off with an example. If I was going to use Amberites as NPCs (or even PCs) in a D&D campaign, I'd make a template for them. In my opinion, this is easy, because there is already a template that seems to fit them in Deities & Demigods: Divine Rank 0. Divine Rank 0 imparts these characteristics to whatever creature the template is applied to:

You might be interested in:

http://www.average-bear.com/amber/d20/index.html

[RPGPundit]

For my part, on the other hand, I definitely prefer my Amberites larger than life; so yes, in D&D I'd probably make them demigods at least.

Hell, in my Blacksand campaign the Amberites WERE the "gods" of the setting.  That whole campaign took place within a backstory that the setting was part of a battlefield of the patternfall war, though none of the players were really in on that whole part of the setting's metaphysics.

RPGPundit

[finarvyn]

I've been thinking about this again.

Has anyone here ever played TSR's old SAGA system from the 90's? It was put out in two different formats (DragonLance and Marvel Supers) and it seems like it has some possibilites as a game system which could be used for Amber.

* It has 4 base stats. (DL uses sub-stats and uses 8, but the monsters are rated in 4 stats)

* It has a simple skill system.

* It can be used for superhero gaming, so it would seem that greater-than-human Amber types could be portrayed well within the system.

* I believe that there is some magic system (certainly there is one in DL, and I assume that superheroes like Dr Strange need one in Marvel)

Has anyone played this? Anyone run Amber with it?

[RPGPundit]

I'm familiar with it, unfortunately the Dragonlance version left a lot to be desired. I think it had a lot of potential (but DL 5th age was a really bad vehicle for it, and badly executed).

Like a few other games, like Everway, I could see running Amber with SAGA.

RPGPundit

[Otha]

Isn't Everway a swine game?

[RPGPundit]

Its more like a Dirty hippy flowerchild new age claptrap game. And Jonathan Tweet might have been munching a bit too much Peyote and singing one too many verses of Kumbayah when he wrote up the setting, but no, its not a Swine game.

RPGPundit

[Rel Fexive]

And a 'swine game' is what exactly?

[The Yann Waters]

And a 'swine game' is what exactly?

I believe the definition ran along the lines of "a game for players who are more interested in feeling superior to everyone else than in having fun." Apparently that includes all the RPGs that ever came out of the Forge and White Wolf; also, Nobilis.

[RPGPundit]

And various others.

Note that also, a Swine game will claim all sorts of innovation and brilliance without any merit to that claim. In other words, its pretentious.

Games like Over the Edge, Everway, or Amber, aren't Swine games because they are generally focused on being a game, being fun; and especially because the radical claims of innovation you could make about them would be TRUE. They really are innovative and brilliant, unlike games like Vampire, Nobilis, Dogs In The Vinyard, etc, which claim to be but really aren't.

Amber and Everway are also, in general, relatively humble about any claims, way moreso than other games that make much louder cries for attention and deserve far less praise.

RPGPundit

[Rel Fexive]

Ah.  An 'Animal Farm' reference eh?

But how many games these days claim to be amazing and new and innovative?  Seems like all of them, sometimes.

[The Yann Waters]

An 'Animal Farm' reference eh?

Hunter S. Thompson, rather.

[Otha]

It's a Pundit phrase.  He coined it, he gets to define it, and decide which games are and which games aren't, and why.

It appears to have more to do with the attitude of the people who wrote, promote, and play the game than it does with the actual game itself.  That's just an observation, however; given that I'm not telepathic, I can't say this for certain.
Even if I were... ew.  Why would I want to go in there?
The phrase is his, and belongs to him and he owns it, and what it is too.
It matters not a whit whether the distinction is based in fact or even rational consideration.