Aging in Amber

[Tolknor]

I was wondering how players and elders, as well as those of the blood relate to aging in Amber.

Comments are made like "I was sensing a level of maturity" or "showed signs of aging poorly in Amber".  I had players who wanted to have thousands of years of history out in shadow but still ran around like high school track stars.   I also had players who were careful, reserved, prepared and devious beyond what i think a youngster might manage.    I didn't want to link age or maturity to points since an elder might know a lot but not have done the things for big points.  

The other thing was those not of the blood brought to Amber.  Bill Roth arrived as a retired lawyer, and soon was looking like a retired condottiero, and showing signs of vigor.  I showed this as a function of enthusiasm and 'lust for life' that caused a person from shadow, or even nobles of amber, to reach a perceived age comfortable to them and stick with it a long time.  

Once lust for life faded the person might slip in to dottage, retire from public affairs, and die of old age.  

Thoughts?

[Panjumanju]

Thoughts?

Let's go over what we know, in as much as anyone can know anything in Amber.

* Oberon, in his usual archetypal appearance, is elderly.
* Dworkin, in his human-ish appearance, is very elderly.
* Oberon and Dworkin are the oldest denizens of Amber.
* We also know they both have shapechanging.
* Bill Roth seemed to become younger during his time in Amber.
* Random appears youthful - but is that his joviality?
* None of the elder Amberites are younger than 300 years old.
* Regardless of how old the elder Amberites are in relation to each other, they seem to be statically represented at the age most fitting their character.
* Some of them grow beards.
* Corwin adventured for ages and ages without growing one involuntarily. Only when he was imprisoned for 3 years is he represented bearded.

Therefore I foot to you this, the only consistent explanation I've been able to give my players:

All Amberites have a limited shapechanging ability to affect age their age as a representation of their emotional state, and this unconscious control extends to hair growth.

As far as I can tell.

//Panjumanju

[Tolknor]

All Amberites have a limited shapechanging ability to affect age their age as a representation of their emotional state, and this unconscious control extends to hair growth.

//Panjumanju

That's interesting.  so a subconscious sense of personal age conected to thier shapechanging ability.  Blood of Chaos.  Seems reasonable for the family.  Give Random a century on the hotseat and i bet he grows a bit of a gray beard!

What about non-family?  Nobles, citizens of Amber the city/nation/planet?  A set age, presumably a long one.  I always figured that unless the enthusiasm of life extended things i gave the average guy got about 25 to 300 years.  Enthusiastic people might stretch it out quite a way.

[Artifacts of Amber]

I return to the adage that Corwin used many times "the Shadows lie for us"  In the end, to me, Amberites (the royals) are shadows. They reflect their age in how the percieve themselves. It is an ultimate truth that works for me and helps explain a ton of things in game and gives me a basis to work off of limiting things by their inability to overcome underlying unconscious beliefs.

But that's what works for me

[jibbajibba]

I agree with unconscious Shapeshift. Its how they regenerate as well.

Course I might argue that they all look as old as their Trumps Trump being the ultimate power that controls the universe.....

[RTrimmer]

I tend to think while mortals in Amber have greater longevity, they live far longer if they are friends of one of the Pattern initiates.

Rein lived centuries, I think.
Rilga aged quickly when Oberon lost interest in her.
Bill Roth was apparently valued by Random, Florimel and Fiona; he became healthier and more youthful.

[Croaker]

So you'd say that one's focused attention on a shadow dweller acts on him?

This could be uncounscious use of Advanced Pattern, to stay on theme.

Or it could be something else. I had my explanation of Pattern and Chaos as if Pattern "observed" the universe, like in quantum mechanics. To borrow from this, maybe, when an amberite "observes" a shadow dweller, he determines his state among all possibles, so that the shadow dweller stays as the Amberite perceives him

[jibbajibba]

So you'd say that one's focused attention on a shadow dweller acts on him?

This could be uncounscious use of Advanced Pattern, to stay on theme.

Or it could be something else. I had my explanation of Pattern and Chaos as if Pattern "observed" the universe, like in quantum mechanics. To borrow from this, maybe, when an amberite "observes" a shadow dweller, he determines his state among all possibles, so that the shadow dweller stays as the Amberite perceives him

I like that. It kind of ties back to teh trump idea as once a thing is recorded it starts to take on facets of the record

[Croaker]

Maybe I'll try to post what I recall of it one day.

The idea came to me while reading "Isolation", from Greg Egan. I had pre-pattern universe as something altogether alien, and explained pattern, shapeshifting and shadowalking with this. Great fun, and also a good explanation why elder chaosites would hate Dworkin and Amber.

[Tolknor]

I liked the idea of people living in Amber staying an age they like and are happy at as something the pattern was doing in an automatic fashion to create a happy center place.  So the guy skulking in the ally, with a long wicked scar and a long wicked knife, seeking sailors to roll, really likes his lot on life.  by

Thus enthusiasm.  I do like the idea of people that interact with Amberites might be strengthened by there presence.  Again the influence of the pattern.  So some guy in shadow that hangs out with Martin in a rave for a couple years might get a point or two for his own personal purposes.. Might learn a power-word, bump his endurance up to chaos level.. gain a few treasures items..

[RTrimmer]

More like a corollary of the 'Amberite time in a shadow makes it more real' effect. Might also work on a mortal who was disliked as well, if he survived the enmity's physical consequences. With Advanced Pattern it would be deliberate, hence Rilga.

So you'd say that one's focused attention on a shadow dweller acts on him?

This could be uncounscious use of Advanced Pattern, to stay on theme.

Or it could be something else. I had my explanation of Pattern and Chaos as if Pattern "observed" the universe, like in quantum mechanics. To borrow from this, maybe, when an amberite "observes" a shadow dweller, he determines his state among all possibles, so that the shadow dweller stays as the Amberite perceives him

[RPGPundit]

That whole "aging as reflecting emotional state" is a really fascinating theory, and it holds up.

I play Amberites as essentially immortal, no Amberite with Pattern is going to die of old age.
Regular citizens of Amber (and likewise, royal amberites who never cross the pattern) will live incredibly long lives by our standards (some of the nobility have pretty clearly been around for hundreds and hundreds of years at least) but they do eventually die of aging.

RPGPundit

[Tolknor]

That whole "aging as reflecting emotional state" is a really fascinating theory, and it holds up.

RPGPundit

An example of the  enthusiasm of life concept i gave to players was story of Salvador Kesht

A leader on the Banker's Council of Amber. He lead the House Kesht with his wife Elizabeth, called Elspie. On the Board of the Bank of Amber. As Economic Deputy Steward he oversaw Amber's financial affairs.

At Patternfall he was well over 800. Aging badly, knowing his death was coming soon.  He commanded an Archer's Regiment comprised of members of his merchant staff. Not a known warrior, he surprised many people with his steady resolve at Patternfall. He stood the charge of a regiment of Hellcats, calmly shooting them down, securing the left flank. For this action he earned Benedict's surprised respect and an even more shocking Knighthood on the field.

 Since aging in my game was a function of will for mortals in Amber, as the zest for life rises the person grows younger, as it dwindles they age. This lead people to find a physical and emotional age they like and stick with it a long time.

Thus Salvador and Elspie. Before Patternfall these two well-respected people were on the declining side of 800 and seemed near death. Then Salvador went to Patternfall, prepared and willing to face the foe and accept death. When he returned to Amber he took his shocked wife by storm. Taking her dancing, carousing, and becoming involved in the Amber Military Aide Society, a group that aids veterans of Amber's Military. Soon both started loosing their gray hair, they started walking faster, making love longer, and they grew young again. Now they both look little over 30 years old and their exuberance and their love story makes the ladies of court, and the romantic of heart, swoon.

[RPGPundit]

An example of the  enthusiasm of life concept i gave to players was story of Salvador Kesht

A leader on the Banker's Council of Amber. He lead the House Kesht with his wife Elizabeth, called Elspie. On the Board of the Bank of Amber. As Economic Deputy Steward he oversaw Amber's financial affairs.

At Patternfall he was well over 800. Aging badly, knowing his death was coming soon.  He commanded an Archer's Regiment comprised of members of his merchant staff. Not a known warrior, he surprised many people with his steady resolve at Patternfall. He stood the charge of a regiment of Hellcats, calmly shooting them down, securing the left flank. For this action he earned Benedict's surprised respect and an even more shocking Knighthood on the field.

 Since aging in my game was a function of will for mortals in Amber, as the zest for life rises the person grows younger, as it dwindles they age. This lead people to find a physical and emotional age they like and stick with it a long time.

Thus Salvador and Elspie. Before Patternfall these two well-respected people were on the declining side of 800 and seemed near death. Then Salvador went to Patternfall, prepared and willing to face the foe and accept death. When he returned to Amber he took his shocked wife by storm. Taking her dancing, carousing, and becoming involved in the Amber Military Aide Society, a group that aids veterans of Amber's Military. Soon both started loosing their gray hair, they started walking faster, making love longer, and they grew young again. Now they both look little over 30 years old and their exuberance and their love story makes the ladies of court, and the romantic of heart, swoon.

Very interesting. Mind you, I don't know if I'd do it with such potential extremes of aging back and forth.

RPGPundit

[Croaker]

This reminds me of Earth X, in a way.