So you're the guy that made that game? Jeez... this is awkward.

Anyway, either you might want to change the free preview/sample or you might want to draw attention to some other game. It really does seem a little complicated... and I actually kind of like rules-heavy games... and dicepools for that matter.

Quote from: beejazzSo you're the guy that made that game? Jeez... this is awkward.

Anyway, either you might want to change the free preview/sample or you might want to draw attention to some other game. It really does seem a little complicated... and I actually kind of like rules-heavy games... and dicepools for that matter.

I'll freely admit (and have admitted elsewhere) that I misplaced the example of play in the book.  I should have made it the LAST thing instead of the first -- but it's sort of a "what's done is done" thing, now.  I recognize DRYH as a flawed work on some levels.  Whether it's a flawed jewel or just a flaw depends on your perspective.

Whew. I have laughed my ass out reading the review, and some people around look at me quite amazed. It's one of the most lunatic, incoherent and demented ravings of the Pundit, which is a lot to say.

The review doesn't makes much for me (good or bad), as I already am a big fan of FATE and am going to pick SotC anyway I encourage everyone to check FATE: I think is the best implementation of FUDGE out there, and contrary to the misguided babbling of the Pundit, is not a Forge game in case that the Forge killed your dog or something like that.

On the review: you really manage to sound like an elitist, pompous, Stanislawski - fanatic asshole. I haven't got such a load of pretentiousness about what REAL ROLEPLAYING is since WW bad times. I think that you have read the PDF thoroughly, no doubt of that, but I also think that you have a big coherency trouble, apart from the elitist assholery, of course.

More to come, got some work to do.

There's not much Forge-y about the "Fudge" rules.  Fudge is not very far from the mainstream (except in its insistence in using dice almost no one owns, but whatever; most gamers are sluts for that sort of thing, any excuse to buy new wierd dice will do ).
FATE is more artsy-fartsy to be sure, with its emphasis being on "personality attributes" and social combat, and making combat no different from any other resolution.

Spirit of the Century, on the other hand, not the system but the game as a whole, slips into deep Gaming Theory territory, in the way it makes the game "about" the "themes" that overlap Pulp, rather than just the action itself.  

BTW; I wanted to add in response to the accusation that has been made that I only give good reviews to D20 games; that's utter nonsense.  The two games that got the most "positive" enthusiastic reviews from me (I don't do a "rating" system, mainly because I don't think that's what reviews ought to be about, but the two games that I was most gushing in my praise of) were "In Harm's Way", and "Urban Faery".

Note: neither of these were D20 games.  They were both games that did exactly what they were claiming to do.  "In Harms Way" was a brilliant and accurate emulation of the Napoleonic Naval period of history; and "Urban Faery" was a real pick up game (in the sense that you could start playing in a question of minutes, possibly even seconds).

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPunditSpirit of the Century, on the other hand, not the system but the game as a whole, slips into deep Gaming Theory territory, in the way it makes the game "about" the "themes" that overlap Pulp, rather than just the action itself.  

     Really?  I treated the bits about optimism and the themes of pulp as, well, gloss.  I mean, cool and all that, but I felt it was more a way of the authors getting you into the mood about how pulp-style action "feels".  Perhaps the authors needed to point those out because there are distinct differences in style from other action genres like noir, modern action-adventure, etc.  The rest of the book felt like it delivered more than enough actiony bits, like the chase rules and stunts and the suggested five-point adventure structure.

    Heck, compared to something like DitV in system and presentation tone, Spirit of the Century is almost traditional in approach.

Andrew

Quote from: SamarkandReally?  I treated the bits about optimism and the themes of pulp as, well, gloss.  I mean, cool and all that, but I felt it was more a way of the authors getting you into the mood about how pulp-style action "feels".  Perhaps the authors needed to point those out because there are distinct differences in style from other action genres like noir, modern action-adventure, etc.  The rest of the book felt like it delivered more than enough actiony bits, like the chase rules and stunts and the suggested five-point adventure structure.

Heck, compared to something like DitV in system and presentation tone, Spirit of the Century is almost traditional in approach.

These are fair observations (at least from the point of the publisher/authors, heh).  The optimism bit was a very small section in the intro chapter that talks about the background of the game.  There's absolutely nothing in the game, mechanically, to support optimism; that's just a frame-of-mind statement, made inside of a few paragraphs, and done.  So at least in terms of our intentions in presentation, Andrew has it right: the optimism thing is gloss.  Important gloss, maybe, but easy to scuff off.

no matter what anyone thinks of the review, between the exposure on this site and Pundit's blog it may be worth it for Evil Hat ,either way.

56 reads here in one day (some of those duplicates) is pretty good, only our
d20 reviews that we post as news on ENWorld generally get more than that i a single day.

I don't know how much traffic Pundits Blog gets, but if it is read a few dozen times there thats 100 reads in the first day. If I'm a publisher, I'd be happy with that since it only cost me a PDF.

I suspect that Evil Hat is happy with little bit of exposure it's getting, even if the review was not positive.

Quote from: McrowI suspect that Evil Hat is happy with little bit of exposure it's getting, even if the review was not positive.

You're correct.

Quote from: RPGPunditNo, the term Optimism is defined as THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF THE PULP GENRE. Which it isn't. Certainly not above "action", which the book EXPLICITLY makes a point of claiming is inferior in importance to the genre compared to optimism.  So the statement itself is a very forceful and defining statement; but if it was just an offhand non-sequiter that didn't affect the rest of the game, that would be quirky but fine.
But it isn't.

Yes, it is.  Your complaint is equivalent to saying that a yellow Ferrari doesn't go fast because yellow isn't a fast colour.  The game facilitates plenty of action, and moreover that's how people who play the game actually play it.  You're rather ironically engaging in the same kind of tortured overanalysis so beloved by Comp Lit douches.

KoOS

Quote from: McrowWell, I was just reading Bruce Baugh's live journal and he said that he likes Spirit of the Century better than Hollow Earth Expedition. He was a co-developer of HEX! That's saying something. Now I'm not fan of Bruce's, but HEX was excellent, so my expectations of SotC are pretty high now.

Errr... I'm pretty sure Bruce Baugh was referring to Adventure! not HEX.  He co-developed A! with Andrew Bates, he did not co-develop HEX (he's a contributing writer IIRC).

KoOS

Quote from: King of Old SchoolErrr... I'm pretty sure Bruce Baugh was referring to Adventure! not HEX.  He co-developed A! with Andrew Bates, he did not co-develop HEX (he's a contributing writer IIRC).

Bruce was challenged on this point on his livejournal.

Source citations here: http://bruceb.livejournal.com/223975.html?thread=1257959

He seems, at least, to be referencing both Adventure and HEX to some extent, though really, at Evil Hat we regard all three of those things (SOTC included, of course) as a happy family that feeds one another well, not as competitors.

I was referring specifically to the "co-developed" comment, not Bruce's feelings regarding a SotC-HEX comparison.  I think it's pretty clear that Bruce thinks SotC is the best of the bunch.

KoOS

Quote from: King of Old SchoolI was referring specifically to the "co-developed" comment, not Bruce's feelings regarding a SotC-HEX comparison.  I think it's pretty clear that Bruce thinks SotC is the best of the bunch.

Ah so!  I should have read your comment more closely.  My apologies.

Quote from: RPGPunditFATE is more artsy-fartsy to be sure, with its emphasis being on "personality attributes" and social combat, and making combat no different from any other resolution.

RPGPundit

I keep banging my head about that idea. I've never seen a problem in this. Actually, in one of your ravings you regarded the D20 unified mechanic as a good thing (though D20 combat don't use the exact same mechanic as the rest of the system).

Quote from: iagoAh so!  I should have read your comment more closely.  My apologies.

You can make up for this incredible offense by cloning yourself and Mr. Donoghue and setting the clones to work on finishing FATE 3.0 tout de suite.

KoOS