This is a site for discussing roleplaying games. Have fun doing so, but there is one major rule: do not discuss political issues that aren't directly and uniquely related to the subject of the thread and about gaming. While this site is dedicated to free speech, the following will not be tolerated: devolving a thread into unrelated political discussion, sockpuppeting (using multiple and/or bogus accounts), disrupting topics without contributing to them, and posting images that could get someone fired in the workplace (an external link is OK, but clearly mark it as Not Safe For Work, or NSFW). If you receive a warning, please take it seriously and either move on to another topic or steer the discussion back to its original RPG-related theme.

Savage Kingdoms

Started by James Gillen, February 01, 2015, 06:33:55 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

James Gillen

Currently Smoking: Black Lotus

Savage Kingdoms is subtitled “Heroic Sword and Sorcery Roleplaying” and presented as “immersive roleplaying in a gritty world of dark fantasy.”  It tries very hard to present itself as a standard-bearer for the Swords & Sorcery genre; for one thing the title font on the cover and several of the section headers looks EXACTLY like that used in the earlier CONAN RPG frpm Mongoose.  However, the art, what there is of it, is uneven at best, and the layout is rather basic.

The opening pages of the book are intended to establish themes more than mechanics.  It is supposed to be “a fairly dark, grim and gritty world, based very much in a Dark Ages to late Antiquity swords-and-sorcery atmosphere” that the author aims to be a cross between Howard's Hyborian Age and Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire.  Specifically, the world is only 13,000 years old, created by gods, with Gods giving way to Giants, then to Dragons, then the Sidhe kingdoms, then (only 5000 years ago) to Man.  The most powerful of human empires in the current age are the fallen sorcerous empire of Xarkon and the still-expanding Persian-style empire of Zaramahd, although neither of these is based on the main continent of the setting, and presumably they will be detailed In Another Sourcebook.

After this and a one-page briefer on role-playing basics, page 13 gets to the mechanics of the game.  It uses a difficulty-number system adding your skill rating and relevant attribute (the entire number) to a die roll.  All rolls are done on a d20.  This d20 is both “exploding” (on a natural 20 you roll again and add the result and would do so again on another d20) AND imploding (on a natural 1 you roll again and subtract that from your initial roll, which will usually be a result of less than zero).  Given this, the rolls for non-trivial tasks can have a Difficulty Level (DL) of 30 or more, and the skill system gives results for what happens on a Critical Success (20+ over the required DL) or Critical Failure (a result of less than zero).

Then they get to the Character Creation system.  It has six steps.  Step 1 is to assign 30 points among six self-explanatory Attributes: Aglity, Physique (strength), Intellect, Vigor, Magnetism (charisma) and Willpower.   This is on a scale where the average person is at a 5 and most PCs never get above 9 or 10 in a stat, so if you put 5 in each ability, you're totally average.  However these will be the figures before applying adjustments for a character's species or ethnicity.

Step two requires a player to figure his character's Derived Traits from his basic Attributes.  These traits are: Hardiness (resistance to physical effects like poison), Health (your hit points), Initiative (added to your Initiative roll at the start of combat), Luck ('bennies'), Renown (a character's reputation, which may add to certain social rolls if Renown is high enough), Resolve (resistance to mental effects like being charmed, or tortured), and Stamina.  Of these the two most important will be Health (based on Phy x2 plus Vig x2), for obvious reasons, and Stamina (based on Wil x2 plus Vigor) because most serious endeavors, from casting a spell to using a special combat manuever, cost Stamina points.  Other reasons for Stamina loss include running, fighting longer than 1 minute, or sleeping in armor.  
There are no character creation points used to increase derived traits, although the aforementioned adjustments for race will adjust these figures, and the traits can also be increased with experience during character advancement.

Step three is to choose your character's race, or usually just ethnic background, because most Swords & Sorcery is in a world where non-human races are rare and friendly ones even more so.  
Apparently as a sop to D&D-trained players there are rules (after the main human culture descriptions) allowing for Duergar (more vulgarly called 'dwarves') and both 'light' and 'dark' Sidhe (elves).  However, there are also rules for Chenari (cat-folk of the southern plains) and Sslir (magical snake-folk who had enslaved humankind in ages past).
Most characters will simply be humans of a specific national background.  The Prydonians, for instance, resemble the island cultures of anicent Greece and the Aegean Sea, while Cymreddi are barely-civilized folk based on the pagan Welsh, who often use woad-paint on their skin (the woad is described as being mildly halluncinogenic).
Each race follows a certain template.  Humans of a certain background get +1 in two of three Attributes favored by that people (some non-humans get +3 to net attributes but must take -1 on another one).  Each race gets three Skill Specialties from a certain list even if a given skill has less than three levels (they don't really explain what that means at this point, so just pick three skills you think the character should be good at).  Some characters also get automatic skill bonuses to certain rolls for being in a native environment or such.  Each race has a list of Favored Talents – when using the later Talents section, characters who have a Favored Talent pay at least 1 less for that Talent in character creation or in later advancement.  Some races also have “favored” Weaknesses – when using the later Weaknesses section, a character with a Weakness listed for his culture gets 1 more point than normal.  Most cultures have a Code of Honor or equivalent- at GM's option, a PC who is played according to this code may be given a +1 bonus to Renown, Luck or another stat.  Each character has his native language and will know one other if his Intellect is at least 4.  Each culture has a list of suggested “life paths” typical of such people – the Viking-like Norish for instance have Clan-warrior, Mercenary, Skald or Runecaster wizard.  Each group is described with typical male and female names, physical traits, and average height and weight.  Finally, each culture has a list of items for starting gear, of which a starting PC may pick one: A Norish character might have a rune-engraved handaxe or hacksilver bracelet, while a character from the Lorinthian Empire might have share in a trade ship or ownership of a trained slave.
It's also mentioned in this section that female characters (of any race) can take -1 to Physique in exchange for getting +1 to either Agility or Willpower.  This is specifically mentioned as an optional rule, “and is only here to lend greater believability to the setting.”

Step four is the Talents section.  A character starts with 10 points of Talents, subject to the modifications listed for culture and also with up to 6 additional points for Weaknesses.  Some of these abilities are Blood Talents that can only be taken at character creation, which reflect ancestry with a non-human race (including being a Lycanthrope or Vampire Spawn).  They require GM permission but are basically a half-step to being non-human in a campaign that would otherwise not allow such.  Most of them are General Talents, although some are listed with an asterisk (*) and these are likewise not available after character creation without good reason (for example being 'High-born' or a noble).  There are also Battle Talents, very similar to d20 Fighter combat feats (of which a starting PC can have no more than four).  Finally there are Magic Talents.  A starting PC can have no more than 3 three of these, and they usually require a restricted General Talent (like Acolyte) or a certain level of skill in other abilities to take.
This is the most complex part of character creation, in that you not only have to pick the abilities that other games would define as your “class,” you also have to define how (or if) your Knight of Aradorn differs from every other knight of Aradorn.  You also have to look very carefully at this section and the following Skills section to design a magic-using character.  
Step five is the picking of Weaknesses, like Addiction, Disfigured or Doomed.  These yield their value in bonus points added to starting Talents or Skills.  You get a maximum of 5 points in Weaknesses.  Again, certain culture packages can cause a given Weakness to be worth +1 point than normal although even then a character cannot get more than 6 bonus points this way.
The last step is to pick Skills, in which a PC gets 20 points plus Intellect rating plus any points applied from Weaknesses.  The text is not entirely clear on their cost ratio; “Skills cost a number of points equal to the skill level; that is, every +1 added to the die result for a skill roll.”    Characters cannot begin play with more than 3 levels in any Skill.  This is on a scale where the maximum level is “Grand Master” at Skill level 12.  Every 3 levels in a Skill gives a Skill Specialty that adds +2 to rolls with that application (as mentioned above, characters get three free specialties based on their culture even if a given skill has less than three levels at start).  Each Skill is described in terms of: whether it has an Armor Penalty, what the applicable Specialties are, the typical DL of a given task, Time Required for a task, “Skill Level Achievements” (extra abilities gained at every few levels of a Skill) and results of a failure, a Critical Failure or a Critical Success.  
The Skills section also goes into more practical detail on being a magician and how Magical Skills work.  Magical Skills are the only skills in this system that cannot be used “unskilled” - they require Intellect 5+ and a Talent such as Magical Affinity, Acolyte or Priest.  Some specific skills also require other prerequisites- for instance Water Magic also requires either Sailing or Swimming skill.  Knowing a given Magical Skill is also prerequisite for using spells that rely on it, which are separate, and in a separate section.

After all this (and after a one-page section on character lifespan and aging), there is a more elaborate section on life paths, so that if one wants to make an Assassin, Bard, or such, there are templates for what the suggested race/culture of the character should be, what Talents and Skills he should take, and so on.  That is followed by a short list of sample characters.  

Then after that they have the section on Combat, which elaborates on the basic rules presented on pages 13-14.  A combat Round is five seconds.  Four types of actions are possible, most of them Primary (like using a Melee weapon), some of them Simple (what other games might call 'free actions', such that you can, say, draw a sword and then attack with it), then Complete Actions (which are sufficiently long and complex that they cannot be combined with Primary or Simple Actions) and Reactions (actions such as parrying an attack when it's not your turn).  Initiative is rolled once for each character per combat scene.  There is no separate roll for damage; the margin by which you exceeded your target's Defense roll is the amount of Health the target takes, minus the rating of any armor he is wearing.  This is on a scale where a Broadsword is +4 to damage and a Breastplate or suit of Brigandine is Protection level 4.  Reaching 0 Health requires making a Hardiness roll of at least 15 DL to stay up; death occurs at a number of negative half one's Health (e.g. if maximum Health for a PC is 26, death occurs at -13 Health).
The book goes straight from the discussion of combat actions to the depiction of movement and space and terrain; the author says: “One thing that GMs should always remember to describe is weather and climate.”  It's mentioned here that the Western Continent of the main setting (more formally called Astagonia) measures about 1000 miles north-south and 900 west-east, not counting the Aegean-Greek style island chain south of the main continent.  The discussion of travel and terrain ends with a basic encounter table allowing for possible interaction with random NPCs, monsters or unusual events.

Then SK discusses the setting's main Orders and Sects.  Some of these are not a good idea for a player character to belong to, such as a knightly order composed mostly of vampires.  Others are good for a character of knightly, priestly or warrior background, and there are some that are especially useful for a magician character, given that novice/initiate rank in a spellcasting order allows a character to use a greater variety of Magical Skills than one gets from simply being an Acolyte, Adept or Priest in a sect (although those Talents are often prerequisite to being full members of a spellcasting order).  Each sect has a long list of requirements (several only allow members of one gender or the other), although attaining a certain rank (usually after attaining a certain level of Renown) grants other benefits to relevant Skills, as well as to Renown itself, and often Luck.  However some of these orders also have only one leader of highest rank.

Then the book has “A Brief Gazeteer” - before which it mentions that the planet has a 360-day year, two moons, and orbits a red sun, which helps in making scenes look that much more like a Frank Frazetta painting.  The Gazeteer of “the Earth-world” describes the major nations of the western continent including the knightly Aradorn, the slightly more Anglo-Saxon Brythia, the various isles of the Sea of Prydonis, and the organized and decadent Lorinthian Empire.  Each brief description goes over the nation/area's main language(s), religion, geography, major settlements, natural flora and fauna, the residents' favored food and drink, and favored sayings of the population, most of which are phrased in a rather cumbersome manner.

And then they get to “Cosmology and the Seven Magics.”  One very interesting thing about this background is that it flips the assumptions of most religions: If the universe started in Darkness, then that means the Demons came first, rather than being corrupted Angels, and thus Angels are actually evolved Demons who developed “the Over-world” which passes for Heaven in the cosmology.  In addition to the Nether-world of Demons, there is also the “Shadow-world” from which Sidhe and other Fae originated.  So in addition to the Elements (the Magical skills of Air, Earth, Fire and Water) there are also the Energies of Death, Life and Shadow (associated with Demons, Angels and Fae respectively).  
As with most Swords & Sorcery, SK acts on the assumption that magic in the current age is decayed from its height ages ago, as a civil war between the Light and Dark Sidhe damaged the land and destroyed much of its magic.  While it is possible to cast most spells in combat, the consequences of failure (Critical Failure with any Skill being pretty severe and Magical Skill failure being that much more severe) mean that magic is rarely used for mundane purposes and is frequently cast with extended rituals.  The Magical Skills section mentions that a short ritual of 30 minutes grants +5 to the casting roll and an extended ritual of 3 or more hours is +10.  Individual spells usually have specific items that grant bonuses to the ritual roll (like water captured from a Water Elemental).  

After the spell descriptions you get the equipment list, with a couple options for starting equipment, one of which being a default assumption of starting with 75 silver coins, along with the assumption of a silver-based game economy (10 coppers make a silver and 10 silver coins make a gold piece). This is on a scale where the aforementioned brigandine armor is 35 sc and plate-and-chain is 150 sc.  After armor and weapons, other purchases and services (including slaves) are listed.  This section goes over the modifiers for items of various quality- for instance while cold-iron or silvered weapons do more damage to certain supernatural beings, their material means that they do less damage than normal otherwise.  There are also suggestions for legendary items (and given that permanent enchantment in this game is fairly rare, any item with a permanent enchantment might be considered legendary).  

Then there is a Bestiary, which is given the caveat that while giant specimens of natural animals exist, more fantastic creatures (or 'Gorgons') have been pushed back to the hinterlands and should not be presented as “monsters of the week.”  
Only after all this does Savage Kingdoms discuss how PCs gain experience points and advancement in abilities.  Characters may be given several XP per story, up to 10.  However, while the game doesn't use D20-style experience levels, characters “advance” at certain stages, the first advancement coming at 15 XP, then 30, then 50, etc.  A chart on page 285 details each advancement level, which increases one or more of the following: +1 to a chosen Attribute, +1 to Renown, or at least +1 to one or more Derived Traits (although any given one can only be increased +1 per advance).  Characters also receive +2 Talent points and +3 Skill points per advancement.  It's mentioned here that while Talent points can be saved, Skill points cannot, which implies that they do indeed count as only one point per Skill rank.  The other limiter here being that as with Traits, any given Skill can only be increased +1 per advancement level.  
The final sections after experience point use include random tables for “downtime” events, and the author's suggestions for making the game appropriately “gritty” in descriptions of scenes, sensations, etc.  There are also options for changing the basic rules, such as giving characters a Wealth Rating with which to make purchases on a DL for the general cost of the item (the base Wealth Rating being half of Renown), and other ideas like limiting non-human characters or permanent magic items.  Then there is an Index and a sample character sheet.

SUMMARY

In terms of Swords & Sorcery simulation value, Savage Kingdoms has at least one advantage over Mongoose's CONAN: While all task resolution is done on a D20, this is not D20 System.  That is, if you want to build a Conan-wannabe, you don't have to slog through the D20 class/level system for over a year in real time to make a 10th level Barbarian/2nd level Pirate/3rd level Rogue or whatever Conan's Mongoose write up is.  With SK's point-buy/talent system, a starting character doesn't have the epic level of competence that Conan does, but he has a similar breadth of abilities.  This is appropriate given that the class/level system is itself an artifact of a gaming philosophy where all characters play assigned roles in a team, as opposed to being people who start out having to rely on themselves (in a world where magic and healing is hard to come by) and only later pool their resources.

The book is hardly perfect- the greyscale pages make the text a bit hard to read, and the author glides through several typos.  For instance, the text mentions that the stats for Health and Stamina are “flatulating” when I think Yow meant to say “fluctuating.”  This is not helped by the overall vagueness in the book that I referred to several times.

Ultimately the success of a game presenting itself as Swords & Sorcery depends on how well it presents the genre in its rules.  There are several core questions to determine whether a game is truly Swords & Sorcery:
1. Can a guy with a sword attack before a guy with a spell?
2. Is magic nevertheless dangerous enough that people have reason to fear magicians?
3. Is the main climate of the setting hot and humid enough to make adventurers think that going around naked except for a loincloth, bodybuilder thong or “Princess Leia” harem outfit is a better survival tactic than wearing decent armor to block melee weapons?
4. Could this game have been based on a Krokus or Ronnie James Dio video?

I would say that in comparison to other games or settings, where Dark Sun hits all those categories but #1, and Game of Thrones hits all but #3, Savage Kingdoms, like CONAN or Atlantis: The Second Age, hits all four requirements fairly well, although its use of D&D-type non-human races makes it more like “vanilla fantasy” than it would be otherwise.
-My own opinion is enough for me, and I claim the right to have it defended against any consensus, any majority, anywhere, any place, any time. And anyone who disagrees with this can pick a number, get in line and kiss my ass.
 -Christopher Hitchens
-Be very very careful with any argument that calls for hurting specific people right now in order to theoretically help abstract people later.
-Daztur

rawma

Quote from: James Gillen;813659the text mentions that the stats for Health and Stamina are "flatulating" when I think Yow meant to say "fluctuating."

I cannot decide if I want to see the house rules that attempt to implement this awesome typo.

James Gillen

Quote from: rawma;813664I cannot decide if I want to see the house rules that attempt to implement this awesome typo.

I know I do.

JG
-My own opinion is enough for me, and I claim the right to have it defended against any consensus, any majority, anywhere, any place, any time. And anyone who disagrees with this can pick a number, get in line and kiss my ass.
 -Christopher Hitchens
-Be very very careful with any argument that calls for hurting specific people right now in order to theoretically help abstract people later.
-Daztur