Quote from: Aos;528052nice dodge there.

I'd have to say if a game "plays differently than it reads" to such an extent that it turns people off from the game before they ever try it, you have a problem with the writing, which wont be fixed by telling people they need to play the game-  and certainly not by being really smug about it.

We'll all be better off if we agree to nod our heads and say "Yes, yes, Hackmaster is the best game ever" and then get on with playing games besides Hackmaster.

Quote from: Aos;528052nice dodge there.

I'd have to say if a game "plays differently than it reads" to such an extent that it turns people off from the game before they ever try it, you have a problem with the writing, which wont be fixed by telling people they need to play the game-  and certainly not by being really smug about it.

A snotty game designer voice with a good game is a lot better than a lot of games I've seen, where my general reaction was, "This is a great game, except for the rules!"

JG

I know my group very much prefers being much more involved in combat - really exposes how weak the old THAC0 (or indeed *any* strict static tabular) and rounds-based systems were. But hey, if you don't want to try it, you don't have to - that's the beauty.

I can also honestly say that my group are a mix - 2 had never gamed before, one had for about 5 years, and anger 10. All loved HackMaster one game in. As Greylond mentioned, combat need only be as complex as the GM wishes to allow. If some rules seem too fiddly for you, personally, the system can be used to just have characters slug each other with no special move sets, combat styles, or even fatigue.  Many might find that boring, but if it helps facilitate the fairly sensible system, then the modular nature does allow it.

No need to be patronising - I don't think anyone is claiming HackMaster to be the best game 'evar!!!1!', but it certainly deserves recognition for attempting to bring some innovation into an otherwise fairly static (if not stagnating slightly, which is a lamentable state) hobby.

So the full book is out?  If so I will make a trip to my FLGS and give it a skim to see if I should get it.  Still think character is far to fiddlely but I will give it a fair shake before deciding.

I certainly intend to check it out some time, but I have to say (in regards to the whole hackmaster is a joke game thing) that was honestly my biggest attraction to it in the first place (have they moved away from the humor in recent editions?). My group had a blast playing Robinloft for example, because we knew the original module and apprecitated the humor. I do realize humorous games don't get a lot of respect (and I am sure many here feel this is deserved). I have a soft spot for them though and enjoy running zany adventures once in a while.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;530623I certainly intend to check it out some time, but I have to say (in regards to the whole hackmaster is a joke game thing) that was honestly my biggest attraction to it in the first place (have they moved away from the humor in recent editions?). My group had a blast playing Robinloft for example, because we knew the original module and apprecitated the humor. I do realize humorous games don't get a lot of respect (and I am sure many here feel this is deserved). I have a soft spot for them though and enjoy running zany adventures once in a while.

From what I understand yes, they have made it a serious game with it's own system this time. I agree with you about humour and it was the reason I was attracted to the previous edition also.

There's still humor, but not direct satire.

Quote from: Marleycat;530617So the full book is out?  If so I will make a trip to my FLGS and give it a skim to see if I should get it.  Still think character is far to fiddlely but I will give it a fair shake before deciding.

The book is at the printers so the physical book is not out yet but the PDF is available now.

Quote from: CRKrueger;530789There's still humor, but not direct satire.

That said, there is *ahem* a growing possibility that a 4e/KoDT-inspired sourcebook with optional rules, details and slightly sillier aspects may well make an appearance a little bit down the line...

QuoteThe book is at the printers so the physical book is not out yet but the PDF is available now.

I am sure you will keep us in the loop on when it does actually become available in dead tree form?

QuoteThat said, there is *ahem* a growing possibility that a 4e/KoDT-inspired sourcebook with optional rules, details and slightly sillier aspects may well make an appearance a little bit down the line...  

If this happens they have my money no questions asked.

just an update.

HackMaster Basic has been updated to be fully compatible with the new PHB. We're offering HMB as a free download.

http://www.kenzerco.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2507&d=1344602073