Disclaimer: I consider Tim Kirk to be a friend of mine.  That said, he and I both know we don't necessarily agree on all things regarding game design.  However, Tim trusts me to give him a fair review and I'll do that.  It's all I've ever tried to do with these things.  Honestly, if anything, I'm probably being a tad rougher in some areas because of it.

Silverlion Studios just released their second RPG, High Valor,  which is a new fantasy RPG designed for heroic fantasy role-playing.  The author states up front that he's not trying to reinvent the wheel, just provide an alternative for those who aren't pleased with their current choice of fantasy role-playing, or even those who just want to try something new.

High Valor was just released on http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=82385&affiliate_id=15975%20">RPG.now for $12.95 in PDF format.  The PDF not only has a table of contents and index, but is fully bookmarked and searchable for easy reference.  The book was released in black and white, but this was a thematic choice on the part of the designer, and honestly I really think it works.  Similar to how most of the supplements for the Midnight game line were all in black and white, it helps enhance the feel rather than take away from it.  I do know the author just received a print copy of the book, so I imagine a print release is also on the horizon, though I don't have those details at the time of this review.

High Valor hits a few of my pet peeves right off the bat, in that it includes dwarves and elves, but renames them Dvegr and Shidda, respectively.  I don't mind dwarves and elves being in the game, but I'd just prefer them be called dwarves and elves.  The second pet peeve is that PCs are largely defined by traits and challenges, which are player defined (not unlike FATE or Over the Edge).  This one is alleviated, however, by a LARGE list of examples from various kinds of traits, rather than just a couple of examples to choose from.  The third thing that gave me an eye twitch was when I got the bestiary: Monsters and adversaries are pure description with a challenge score.  That is, say, a troll is a Heroic challenge, and that sets the difficulty for defeating a troll outright.  You can try to wear it down by making less difficult actions and thus taking less risk, however.  The final thing isn't a pet peeve per se, but High Valor is a "players roll" system, meaning that, well, players roll dice and the GM doesn't.  I don't have a problem with this, but in my experience this always leads to a few oddities in the system and I've picked up the odd place in the magic system where this might be the case.

From a design standpoint, there are a few places in the book where font selections made the text a little more difficult to read.  The author said this was meant to emulate a "handwriting" type of feel, and that would have been fine if those sections were just flavor text, but actual game information is in there, and that makes it disconcerting.

That said, those are my complaints.

High Valor is set in a world called Aiea, which is nearing the end of their Dark Ages when the Black Gate falls and the demonic Fane Lords return.  Thus, the time is ripe for heroes to rise and protect the world from the Fane Lords and their minions.  The setting is detailed, but not heavily so.  In fact, the timeline is left with blank spots for the GM to fill in their own events to flesh out the world.  The author provides details like coinage, verbage and the like to help give the world its identity, but there is meticulously detailing of every major NPC like you might find in a lot of fantasy settings.

Character creation goes in steps and is largely freeform.  First, pick you concept and then your kinship.  Kinship is equivalent to race in your typical fantasy game and includes the Dvegr and Shidda, as well as Humans, the magic-twisted Sidhain (still kinda human, just...different) and Fomoradgh, the animalistic former footsoldiers of The Fane Lords who have decided to fight their former masters.  Every kinship has an inherent trait and challenge or, in the case of the Sidhain, a list of traits or challenges to choose from.  After that, you pick background traits keyed to being a member of your kinship.  From there, select a profession and traits related to that and then three open traits for fleshing out.  Traits add to your die rolls where applicable and are ranked from Lesser (+2) up to Mythic (+10).  The challenge scale works on a similar scale of Lesser ( to Mythic (28).  Character generation gives you the option in places of taking, say, fewer traits at a higher level, or more traits at a lower level.

Once your traits are complete, you have 5 dice to distribute among your FEAT Pools, which are Valor, Will and Faith.  Each starts off at 1, so you get that freebie.  Valor is generally used for physical type stuff, Will for mental type stuff (including magic) and Faith can be used to invoked divine miracles as well as ward off dark forces.

Everything you do involves rolling from those pools and applying relevant traits.  You take the highest die and add your traits.  HOWEVER, for every "10" that you roll, you keep it AND add the next highest die.  So if you roll four dice and get 3, 5, 6 and 9, you take the 9 and add the two highest relevant traits.  Had you rolled 3, 5, 6 and 10, you get the 10 and the 6 plus the traits!  You must roll higher than the target number to succeed.  If you roll equal to it, that's a stalemate and the GM or the player can take a minor setback for the character they have involved in the conflict in order to take the upperhand, or they can call that action a draw and move on to the next action.

When things are desperate, you can use other pools to bolster an active one.  Say you are locked in a physical struggle with a giant and you think your physical Valor will not be enough, you can borrow a die from your Will pool to bolster yourself for the struggle.  Or, say, a dark force is trying to corrupt you and your Will is fading...so you invoke a Prayer and add Faith to your pool.  The downside is that doing so diminishes the pool you borrowed from for an entire scene.  The only limits are that you cannot use Faith to bolster magic and you cannot Will miracles into existence.  However, your allied can lend you dice and they have no limitations on how they do that...literally, your allies can will you to greater heights.

The stakes for failure are based off of the difficulty of the action.  If something is of a Lesser difficulty, there shouldn't be any danger of death.  However, a Mythic challenge is very, very harrowing and so on.  When faced with a challenge that is just too overwhelming, with the GM's (or "Teller's") discretion you can take smaller, less difficult actions to whittle the challenge down and increase your chances of success.  I definitely think this is something that'll take some getting used to for myself and my players, but could be very cool regardless.

Just about everything in the game is a Trait.  If you have a sword, but not a Sword trait, you roll Valor.  If you have your Father's Battle-Worn Blade (+4), you roll Valor +4.  Since you can add two relevant traits to an action, if you have your Father's Battle-Worn Blade (+4) and Swordsman (+2), roll your Valor +6.

Enchanted items work the same way, and a sample of Items of Power are included in the book, as well as tips on converting existing equipment to Items of Power, something I've always loved.  Don't get me wrong...it's cool finding a Vorpal Weapon +3....but it's a LOT cooler when you plunge your sword into a demon's fiery heart and from that day forward your blade is covered in glowing veins that are poison to those of demonic blood, am I right?

As noted above, there are two kinds of metaphysics in the game: Faith and Magic.

Faith has smaller applications, such as Blessings.  They can be used to lay a protective blessing on children, ward off demons for a day and so forth.  Minor miracles are the next step, and some of the examples supplied include gusts of wind knocking arrows aside or the sun emerging from the clouds to blind a foe.  Major miracles can summon Angelic aid, raise the dead and open sinkholes under enemies.  Note, however, that miracles can have setbacks and they can be intense, such as drawing the attention of evil forces or even encouraging the High Power to call the miracle invoker home...(death, basically).

Magic is divided into Low and High magic, which is not unlike the Blessings/Miracles division.  Low magic are very minor effects, that can be reasonably denied.  They generally add, at best, a +2 to an action like a Lesser Trait.  High Magic, on the other hand, can do wondrous things, but requires relevant skills to perform and can have much greater consequences.  In fact, every use of High magic WILL have setbacks...though the caster, with time, preparation and ritual can reduce the level of setback.  The simplest is Shadowplay, which is creating a short rhyme for the spell, said out loud, and reduces the setback level by 1 step.  No matter how much the caster prepares, though, they cannot eliminate the setbacks altogether.

Using a similar set-up to the Faith and Magic system, the book also details a list of herbs, poisons and plants that can be used to provide a variety of traits, such as mandrake, which can be used to both knock a person unconscious or kill them, the furze tree, which acts as a barrier against trolls and can be burnt to ward off all evil, and coltsfoot, used specifically to heal horses and their riders.

High Valor uses an interesting advancement system, in which you track your Triumphs and Dooms.  These are your major successes and failures.  Once you have accumulated ten of them, you can advance your character, either by improving a Trait, adding a die to a pool, adding a new trait or removing a challenge.  The key in each is significance.  Beating up a shopkeeper and taking their money?  Not impressive.  Rallying the impoverished town together to wage war against the demon-influenced overlord and overthrowing his reign of oppression?  Much better.  And even if that attempt fails, the town is crushed and you're left for dead, that's still gonna fall under a Doom.  The key is to think Big.

The cover is very indicative to what High Valor is all about: A lone warrior, spear in hand, standing over fallen foes while another group of enemies rushes him and the demonic head of a Fane Lord appears overhead.  The setting included into the book has dark forces brewing, but unlike a Midnight or a Ravenloft, there is no sense that heroes will be crushed for fighting evil.  Quite the opposite, in fact...great evil is there to allow the PCs to rise up and BE heroes.  That's how I like my fantasy.  Heck, that's how I like my games, period: Dark, but not hopeless.  There must be a little spark that can be fanned into a glorious flame, and for the misgivings I laid out at the beginning of this review, that is exactly what High Valor provides.

High Valor is designed to provide the kind of fantasy adventure I wanted from Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 2nd Edition, but never quite found because so much of the system was still geared towards killing things and taking its stuff.  High Valor provides a vehicle for that kind of epic, storytelling adventure while still keeping the "game" part of it present.

My only serious fault with this is that its Sidda (no H..)


Thanks for the review. Even if I make your eyes twitch.

GAH.

Sorry about the "Shidda".

And "eye twitching" is as close as I get to internet hyperbole these days...=)

Quote from: Silverlion;395097My only serious fault with this is that its Sidda (no H..)

Dude I am so glad to hear that was a mistake. My players would have had a field day with that. I can see it now: "so would a half elf be a Pissa? "  Talk about detailing the game before it even starts.

Otherwise seems like an interesting game. Always been intrigued by a players roll system but never got the chance to run one. Good luck with it Tim. All I hear are good things about it.

Pete

Quote from: pspahn;395206Dude I am so glad to hear that was a mistake. My players would have had a field day with that. I can see it now: "so would a half elf be a Pissa? "  Talk about detailing the game before it even starts.

Otherwise seems like an interesting game. Always been intrigued by a players roll system but never got the chance to run one. Good luck with it Tim. All I hear are good things about it.

Pete

Indeed. I face palmed when I saw it and was like "Did I miss that somewhere? Mistype? Surely the editors would have caught it..?"

Yeah, again, my deepest apologies.  I had a few too many distractions going on that I could control when writing it, and when I proofread, that slipped right past me.

Quote from: Tommy Brownell;395223Yeah, again, my deepest apologies.  I had a few too many distractions going on that I could control when writing it, and when I proofread, that slipped right past me.

No worries. It happens.

What makes High Valor a "Dark Ages" game instead of just "generic medieval" like most fantasy RPGs?

How are Dvegr / Sidda (not to be confused with the Shitta) different than vanilla fantasy RPG dwarves and elves?

Can you give us an example of combat?   I like the dice pool sharing between allies.  If the GM isn't rolling dice, what is he doing with the monsters?

I read the review before my cappuccino and my game braincells aren't grokking how the system is supposed to work.  

Cappuccino...not just for your bunghole anymore.

Quote from: Spinachcat;395329What makes High Valor a "Dark Ages" game instead of just "generic medieval" like most fantasy RPGs?

How are Dvegr / Sidda (not to be confused with the Shitta) different than vanilla fantasy RPG dwarves and elves?

Can you give us an example of combat?   I like the dice pool sharing between allies.  If the GM isn't rolling dice, what is he doing with the monsters?

I read the review before my cappuccino and my game braincells aren't grokking how the system is supposed to work.  

Cappuccino...not just for your bunghole anymore.

Dark Ages based on the general level of technology. Horses are new to the battlefield, spears, axes and mail are common battlefield tools. Bows and swords are as well, but not the high end knights weapon.

Though in the game that isn't a big deal. It is a late dark ages game so its easy to move it forward or back along the timeline. A lot of it has to do with politics as well--while feudalism is absent, for the most part thanks to the rejection of anything resembling slavery. You have lots of wilderness, wild human tribes, and settled human groups to add in to the mix. How good a warrior someone is matters to conflict and story, more than how many troops you can commit to battle.

Dvegr are mostly what you'd expect, except they're small humans having all the varied body types of humans just smaller and denser. They can't swim at all. (They don't float. They sink like stone.) They also when they die, slowly turn to stone. They are are just another one of the races of man--with their own quirks but still men.

Sidda are stranger. Aging for them makes them less and less "manlike," as they are tied to the the world a bit tighter--thus in Aeia, the World of Dreams--they are more dreamlike. Age and sorrow can cause them to take on supernatural traits and forms, tied to their names they are given at birth. From animal to elemental, to faery like things they can slowly become as time and sorrow passes over them. Though the game isn't generational enough to see a lot of that unless the Teller (GM) makes it so. Though they do start old enough to have some distinctions from "human." They also can't talk straight. Mechanically speaking it is a challenge for them to not talk in riddles, and somewhat prophetic obscurity.

As for "what is the GM doing?" in combat. He's playing their personalities and tactical choices. They can choose all the things they could normally. It just isn't about the dice rolling. They can attack fiercer, or pull back, they can switch tactics to make things harder on their foes. (A troll throwing a boulder is a common tactic for example.)  Dice rolling isn't but a fraction of what a GM does in any game. He makes the enemies, gives them a spark of intelligence, or ferocity, decides on their actions. If unopposed they simply WIN.


Let's use the sample character in the game, Thiundael, A Sidda also known
as the Thunder of the Shining Host. He is mostly still human like. Though his voice rings like thundar when he speaks.


He has Will 3, Faith 2, Valor 3

His traits are:

 Luminal (Lesser)
Finder (Greater)
Redeemer (Lesser)
Mace wielder (Lesser)
Uncorruptible (Lesser)
Strong as a Bear (Lesser)
Skysplitter (Lesser)
Adept-Sorcery (Lesser)
Mythic Countenance (Greater)

His challenges are:

Dreaming Enigma
Distant

Thiundael is skirting the edge of a human village, of Bristleton. While moving through the dark and gloomy forest full of wild things. He stumbles upon a troll about to eat two foolish humans it caught in the forest. They are tied together and squirming and yelling. The troll is digging around for things to make a fire to cook its prey alive.

Thiundael steps forward and speaks. "Vermin!" his voice rings out "Release the humans!"

The troll looks around for a giant before spying the tiny little elf. "Hurr hurr.." he laughs. He flings a stone sitting beside him with an almost casual toss.

The troll is a Heroic challenge. This is a target number of 16 to defend against his toss. Having no immediately useful traits, Thiundael tells the teller. "I will swing my mace across the boulders girth, and rely on its virtue and wonder as a mystic hammer whose name is SkySPLITTER, and my Strength of a Bear to put it off course from crushing me"

 The Teller nods as this is a justified use of traits, and the emphasis on "Splitter" that the player spoke when he mentioned it. "If you fail you will be thrown down and your shoulder or your arm will be broken!"  the Teller informs him.

Thiundael's player accepts this as is usual  and rolls his dice, using Valor since he's standing courageously against a terrible attack. He rolls 3 dice getting 8, 9 and 5.  Taking the 9 he adds his two traits. Both Lesser to this. That's 9+4merely a 13, not touching the 16 he needs. He should have brought along a friend! He is thrown down and his arm snaps beneath the boulder as it spins him and flings him to the ground. This is embarrassing, and terrifying! The troll has just begun and is winning!
 
Thiundael struggles to stand while the Teller has the troll (thinking it has already won.) Move towards him.

"Not yet foul beast of the Fane, you will not add me to your pot! Not while I draw breath!" Thiundael's player tells the the Teller "I grit my teeth tight, I tell myself that I cannot falter so soon, I am meant for great things, I can fight even in spite of the pain, for I am an warrior of great skill!" The player then borrows a die from Will, and moves it to Valor.  "As he nears I pull myself up and strike at his knee with my mace, hoping to injure him rather than kill and putting us both on the same footing."

The Teller nods and the target number goes down as he's not trying so much for an all or nothing effect.  The player rolls and gets 6, 6, 10, 9.  That's a 19 before adding his chosen traits of Skysplitter and Maceweilder. (Again both lesser)

The teller describes it  "The maces striking head resounds with a solid crack and crushes the Trolls knee. He tumbles down to his side growling in pain.."

With the injury the Troll is now only a Greater threat. Since he can't move much better than the Sidda unless he throws a boulder he's also in dire straits.

"The troll flings muddy sod at you trying to blind you while he stands." says the Teller. The Sidda must dodge flung Aeia once again. Yet he's back to three dice for valor "I yell out as loudly as I can a battlecry, drawing upon the thunder in my spirit, and try and find a clear path through the flung detritus!" This time he finds a way to use his two Greater traits. Mythic Countenance Thunder, and Finder. The Teller tells him he'll allow Finder, but that's a bit to extreme use of Mythic Countance. So he decides to use his Redeemer traits.

"Then I as a Redeemer am use to the tricks of the dark things in the Fane's armies and suspected this was coming.." the Teller allows this more reasonable use of traits and he rolls. 8,1, 3. He takes the 8 and adds his Greater and Lesser traits. This is +6 and with the 8 he manages a 14. Clearly above the Heroic challenge ordinarily! The Teller informs the Sidda that he succeeds because a hurt arm might make his attacks slower, but not his moving away around flung dirt.

The Sidda's player considers a moment. He knows that another mace strike if lucky might take out the troll, but the hurt arm will make it tougher than he'd like. He could switch tactics and use magic, choose to flee, or come up wit something else. Yet a Redeemer is unlikely to flee so long as dark creatures stalk "his" lands.  Aha! He's a sorcerer, one of the magics that can heal.


"I will use sorcery to heal my arm this time," he tells the Teller. THe sets this at a Greater challenge, since its tough, but he is a willing target. "Say your spel, your setback will be that ropes and belts bind tight, and begin to hurt, taking breath out of you and the humans if you don't get them off fast" the Teller grins evilly, hoping he isn't as quick tongued as he thinks he is.  "Forest mighty looming near with your strength I know no fear, grant me this boon I ask, heal my arm for this terrible task, I shall scourge the darkness free, and let no dark creature beleaguer thee!"  

"Not Terrible." the Difficulty is greater so the setback regardless of the spell words will remain Greater, since it can't be reduced below that. Thiundael casts and gets 6,3, 9. With Sorcery+ Redeemer that's a 13. Just enough to make it. His belt and wrist ties on his clothes tighten making breathing harder. But his arm heals.

'Your fine for now but take took long and the clothes and ropes become a challenge for you shortly!" The Teller laughs a bit at the thought of the half naked Sidda fighting.


Healed, but not as fierce as his Troll foe, he must suffer another strike. The Troll wobbly and in pain swings a giant backanded fist at the Sidda trying to throw him out of melee range so he can scoop up another weapon. "I use my strength to turn his punch his fist above me as I duck.." He uses his skill as a warrior--Redeemer and his Strong as a Bear Traits to avoid getting hit. 7,9, 3. He can only keep the 9 so its 13 again, and the troll is shocked by the slim little thing being so mighty!

"Now I leap in under his guard and crush his chest with a bone breaking strike to his sternum!" He roll and gets a 10, 8, 5! The ten is the high this time and as usual he gets to keep it and the next highest die! So and 18 before adding any traits. That's significantly above the Greater defense the Troll can generate as he tries to move out of mace reach.

"You Lash out in with a swift and powerful strike and his sternum his crushed and he staggers back as his ruptured organs cease pumping his foul black blood as he falls.."

Thiundael doesn't stop, instead he rushes to shrug of his clothes, and then free the humans. "Oh thank you! We thought we'd be stew meat!" says one.
The other "Oh, yes. We cannot thank you enough!"

Thiundael's challenge of distance and his dreaming enigma work against him here. He can't be very friendly or close, without making a difficult roll so he just nods and lets it win. "Flee, for the crows of darkness fly near, and are always ready to feast!"


"Yeah Thiundael, really reassuring to the poor farmers..." says the Teller " The, half naked themselves now, flee the forest. Wondering how terrible the Sidda is, and monstrous in its own way.."

Thiundael shakes himself and decides to search for their village. He needs clothes his clothes fixed with new ties, or new clothes. This is going to be fun...


He lists his doom and triumph: Hit by Boulder and Arm crushed (Doom)
 Killed first Troll (Triumph) for this "adventure."  He learned new things this time. Ordinarily they don't come quite so quickly. Maybe the humans will spread the tale of the Sidda whose voice was thunder...

For the record these are all actual dice rolls. He was damn lucky.  He really needs a few higher traits to take on a Troll. Or a few friends. He could have easily died with another failed roll or two.

Now I actually have a question.

When trying to whittle an enemy down, what do setbacks actually DO to you?  I couldn't tell for sure, but it sounds like the arm injury was going to boost the difficulty to attack to make melee attacks until he healed it, correct?

Quote from: Tommy Brownell;395396Now I actually have a question.

When trying to whittle an enemy down, what do setbacks actually DO to you?  I couldn't tell for sure, but it sounds like the arm injury was going to boost the difficulty to attack to make melee attacks until he healed it, correct?

Yeah. If you take a setback that isn't life ending and has an ongoing effect. This includes ruining ones reputations with people for social interactions, breaking a limb for physical or otherwise taking an ongoing "impairment" it makes things harder for you, or easier for you depending on who it impacts. You take it--it gets harder, the enemy takes it--your actions may get easier.

I caved and bought this today.  Between the discussion, the preview and Tommy's review I just had to do it.

Quote from: Kinetic;395735I caved and bought this today.  Between the discussion, the preview and Tommy's review I just had to do it.

Thank you! I am trying to get a few more corrections done, so when that happens you should get an updated file alert.

I hate typos. Really.

Looks like good stuff!  

The system reminds me of HeroQuest (the Glorantha one, not the boardgame), but simplified and faster.

When do you plan to release the dead tree version?

Do you plan to support the game with some kind of supplement train?

Quote from: Spinachcat;395786Looks like good stuff!  

The system reminds me of HeroQuest (the Glorantha one, not the boardgame), but simplified and faster.

When do you plan to release the dead tree version?

Do you plan to support the game with some kind of supplement train?

I've thought of a few things I'd like to do--but a train? Hardly. A friend has suggested "Epic Options" of some kind, he wants to write stuff for it, and I thought he didn't like it at first.

I'd like to do a little bit on specific cultures. I lost an entire "page" of information I'd like to work ia book somewhere.


I'm much more interested in general of letting people take games and run with them, though.