It is not 4.5e. It is D&D 4e with new classes and some reworked powers (for example Magic Missile) Dealing with the changes will feel similar when getting cards with changes or errata in Magic the Gathering.

It not a full ruleset like Mentzer's Basic Dungeons & Dragons. It is designed to take somebody who hasn't played Dungeons & Dragons at all and teach them to play and referee. It has enough additional material to for a couple of sessions of play and for the referee to come up with his own adventures.

It is meant not so much to be read but to be used. From the beginning of the players books to the start of the last chapters of the Dungeon Master's book it is designed be read in order and has the reader doing stuff from the first couple of pages onward.

This places the Starter Set not in the Holmes, Moldavy, Mentzer lineage but in the various First Quest, and other beginning D&D set.

There is very little reference material, in fact for somebody experienced in roleplaying this books will seem tedious and confusing. Only references it has are the power/item/actions cards that are included and a small monster reference. They do get +1 for including two pages about Nentir's Vale in the back. I always like this mini-setting, felt it had great potential as a setting for a sandbox campaign.

The Twisting Halls is one of the places that the Starter Set shines. It is seven encounters that the authors made interesting and challenging. The dungeon for the D&D day is a follow up to this module. It includes a full color double sided battlemap with the Twisting Halls on one side and a some smaller encounters on the other. It has dice, some nice character sheets, and a full color set of counters to use for miniatures.

Physically the box is one of the sturdiest I seen. There is a inset that you can remove that they use to package the contents. Once remove I can see that much of the D&D Essential line will fit into it. My D&D 4e referee screen likewise also fits.

The player book is setup in a choose your adventure style designed to teach a person about creating and playing one of the four iconic classes (Fighter, Wizard, Cleric, Thief). They use the standard array for assigning attributes.

The Dungeon Master is a more traditional read and has the usual 4e excellent advice on DMing followed by some encounters for a novice referee to try running, followed by the Twisting Hall, detail on creating your own encounters, the Monsters Reference, and finally two pages on Nentil's Vale.

The books are printed in full color magazine style as well as the paper (thick and glossy).

So what do I think about it. Well.... it not aimed at me, my friends, or the readers of this blog. They are not kidding about it being for 24 million players of D&D that are not currently playing. I can see a dad or a mom who hasn't played in 20 years going "oooo... this looks familiar" picking up the Starter Set and learning how to play D&D 4e. The Twisting Hall dungeon, shines as an example of 4e design filled with interesting and created encounters.

But I think it going to fail.

Why? It not because every single starter set failed where the Holmes, Moldavy, Mentzer, version succeeded. Because in the introduction they make the fatal mistake of taking D&D head to head with video games.

QuoteThe Dungeons & Dragons game is the original pen-and-paper roleplaying game, the inspiration for generations of other games both on the tabletop and on computers and game consoles. If you've ever played Neverwinter Nights, Final Fantasy, The Legend of Zelda, World of Warcraft, Dragon Age, or games like those., you already have some idea of what the Dungeons & Dragons game is about. With this book you're about to experience the game in its latest and greatest incarnation.

In subsequent paragraphs they describe how you going to enter a fantastic world of adventure, take on the role of a legendary hero in a world filled with ancient ruins, vast caverns, and wild frontiers.

And so what? I can already do that with those computer games and with a lot less hassle. So what makes Dungeons & Dragon different today. I give D&D a pat in the head for being the progenitor of we see today but those 24 million players are not going to put with the hassles of running a tabletop rpg you got to make a case for it. And they don't do that. Instead it leaps into the details of the mechanics the games which dominates the remaining 96 pages. Yes there are a few pages of player and referee advice. Good advice in fact. But they are overshadowed but the sheer bulk of the encounter and stat blocks. And all the encounters are about combat and direct conflict.

The singular advantage of roleplaying games is in the human element. The human referee, the human players. The infinite imagination and creativity they bring to the table. And that doesn't come across with only 2 pages (6 and 7 of the DM Section) devoted to stuff other than the mechanics of the game.

The encounters the authors made for the Twisting Halls are interesting and well thought out but without the larger picture they are without soul and just pieces on the board for the players to kill. I feel bad hammering this because here and there I can see the authors injecting things that are great hooks for roleplaying. For a novice or somebody hasn't played in decades these are not obvious and there nothing written on how to use them if they do notice them.

Because of this game feels like more complicated version of pushing chess pieces around. It not a problem of mechanical complexity but a problem of presentation. There are plenty of RPGs with complex mechanics that do a great job of promoting roleplaying as well as combat. In today's market the human element of roleplaying is the only thing that separates the tabletop game from it's computer version and starter sets need to pound on that to make a lasting difference for their parent game.

I give Mike Mearls and the 4e team an A for the Starter Set as a tutorial to use the D&D 4e mechanics. But as a introduction to the roleplaying game it doesn't do Dungeons & Dragons justice.

Thanks Rob.  I had been expecting the 4e equivalent of Mentzer, given the packaging and hype; I cancelled my pre-order after reading newbiedm's review.

My son will soon be old enough to play, I think I'll start him on the Mentzer set.

I think i'll still buy this but more as a nice easy way to get upto date on the rules for this new edition of d&d than something i'll play with friends, though the choose your own adventure thing may see some use for people ho are interested in trying the game but not sure they are comfortable jumping into the big game.

It's indeed important to understand that this is not the Mentzer boxed set at all. It is not a complete game system in this regard. What it is a pure introduction to the 4E D&D game, which assumes that after a few games you'll raise the stakes with Heroes of the Fallen Lands, Rules Compendium and the DM's Kit. My main question then is "is it enough of an exciting product to do just that?"

I'm still very curious to read and play it with the kids around here. I've been agreeing with the line of thought that putting the D&D game directly into comparisons with video games without at the same time pimping what is fundamentally different between them (no limits to the 'maps', the people around the table, make up your own stuff, etc) is a big, big mistake. Hooking the kids by telling them this is the game where all their favorites originated however might be a good start to catch their attention. The devil is in the details, here, to me.

I'll have a close look at it, and probably will review it as well, once I'm done with Blood Moon Rising.

No it will fail because it is still a significantly more complex game than red box D&D was.  It will fail because a choose your own adventure walk through is fine in that it leads a new player through the steps in a directed fashion but is way more text and reading than a simple check list and reference work.  Lastly it will fail because it is not a complete game.  New players will find it to be more of a marketing scheme than an inexpensive way to get into the game.

The black box that came out at the same time as the rules compendium is still the very best D&D starter to see print.  No it wasn't a big success at the time, IMO because the larger Monopoly style box didn't have a stack of plastic figures in it (Irrc there were 4).  While Heroquest, which was sitting on the shelf next to it was packed solid.  If it had been in a smaller box and had a plastic miniatures set sold separately I think it would have done better.

Quote from: David Johansen;404377It will fail because a choose your own adventure walk through is fine in that it leads a new player through the steps in a directed fashion but is way more text and reading than a simple check list and reference work.

I remember reading the Dark Eye Initiation boxed set as a kid (11 years old). Sure, I had played some AD&D with my cousin as mentor/DM, but I had no experience whatsoever reading rules books, creating characters on my own, let alone running games. The first adventure in there was a choose your own adventure exploration of the house of an old pirate, which directly lead to another adventure which you were then supposed to run for your friends. It was a brilliant introduction to me to the game.

If kids can't be bothered to read a few pages on their own to start with this game, then the game is fucked. That's it. Period. I think at some point that we need to realize that RPGs aren't going to be popular with every single kid magically. It will appeal to kids who like to read, kids who have lots of imagination, kids who are probably a little bit awkward on the school grounds... geeks, in other words.

Quote from: David Johansen;404377No it will fail because it is still a significantly more complex game than red box D&D was.  It will fail because a choose your own adventure walk through is fine in that it leads a new player through the steps in a directed fashion but is way more text and reading than a simple check list and reference work.  Lastly it will fail because it is not a complete game.  New players will find it to be more of a marketing scheme than an inexpensive way to get into the game.

The black box that came out at the same time as the rules compendium is still the very best D&D starter to see print.  No it wasn't a big success at the time, IMO because the larger Monopoly style box didn't have a stack of plastic figures in it (Irrc there were 4).  While Heroquest, which was sitting on the shelf next to it was packed solid.  If it had been in a smaller box and had a plastic miniatures set sold separately I think it would have done better.

There were no plastic minis in the Red Dragon Black Box set.  2 sheets of standee style cardstock minis (which in some cases had different characters/monsters on the front and back.  WTF?  MERP Red Box had em with proper front, back, and some basic stats.), the horribly slow and tedious Dragon Cards, the lite DM screen, a single rulesbook, dice, and a single sided dungeon map.

(A couple weeks ago I was putzing around with my set while sick.  Its SOO BORING.)

Yeah, Mentzer is still probably the GOD D&D starter but honestly Essentials Red aint half bad for what it is and what it costs.

I got it on Amazon for like 13.50 and even if the game blows you get some useful goodies.

I haven't much gone through the in box solo yet but already its better than the Dragon Cards.  Gets to the action faster, and actually seems to have options for you to fail.  (Dragon Cards didn't.)

Comparing Essentials Red to previous 4e intro, the 3 3e intros, and the Diablo 2 intro though and it comes out shining like a rose.

Character Generation!  

Combination of fair price AND good components!

Enough content to actually do something before having to buy another damned thing.

Sure its still got the 4e bullshit in it (29 HP for a Level 1 Fighter?  THE FUCK?) and all, but I don't think its too shabby at all for what it is.

The character sheet is rather nice.  I could possibly see myself running an Essentials only game, probably ditching healing surges if I can (Or making it a CON check that if you roll equal or above CON you take Surge Damage.  Hehehe.  Your inner Chi didn't get up and go.  It got up and left!) or something/

I would just need to forget it says D&D on the box, or run it with the OSR "Rulings not Rules" mindset I always do.  

I do pretty good running Braunsteins.  My 2nd best campaign was a smooshing of Silent Death with Star Wars Miniatures with almost zero actual RPG rules in it and it still worked pretty well.

Course I would much rather just run Castles & Crusades with LIMITED Feats for those munchkins who just can't not have mechanical character customization, but people are brandwhore idjits.

Quote from: Benoist;404379If kids can't be bothered to read a few pages on their own to start with this game, then the game is fucked. That's it. Period. I think at some point that we need to realize that RPGs aren't going to be popular with every single kid magically. It will appeal to kids who like to read, kids who have lots of imagination, kids who are probably a little bit awkward on the school grounds... geeks, in other words.

This is a good point. I don't think they necessarily need to be geeky or awkward kids, but if new players hate reading, they are probably going to enjoy a different hobby. Even in versions of RPGs that are heavy on miniatures, it's still basically verbal, much more like an an audiobook than the "movie version." I'm sure RPGs have gotten many people more into reading, but if a 32 or 64? page choose your own adventure is an insurmountable barrier, well, the world is full of other hobbies.

I'm not trying to nail up a "keep out!" sign here; even if a guy really isn't interested in much more text in his leisure time than the word "Loading..." I don't object to having him at my table if he's willing to play and has a tolerable personality. But, especially with an intro box, the market you need sell to is the person who's willing to be a DM, round up some friends, and run an adventure for whoever's up for it. That person is probably not going to be a person who opens a box and says "aw, man, I have to read this fucking booklet?"

It's going to fail because each box comes with an angry grudge holding neckbeard from the internet. It's like the toy in a happy meal except smellier.

Quote from: Captain Rufus;404629Comparing Essentials Red to previous 4e intro, the 3 3e intros, and the Diablo 2 intro though and it comes out shining like a rose.

The crucial lack of character generation apart, which you go on to mention, I think the previous (2008) Starter Kit is the superior product. It contained a skill challenge, and a lot more DM advice of the variety Rob says is missing in the new Red Box.

PS. May I also say that the 2010 Red Box doesn't contain actual rules for character generation.

"You're a fighter. Your strength is 18."

"You can have a greatsword. Or a greataxe. That's it."