As you may know (or not) I'm working on a Pulp-ish game, I don't want to just copy paste the exact same monsters so I've been doing some changes and creating some new ones (will share some of those soonish).
Just like there's different types of Vampires from around the world I wanted to include different types of Zombies:
Bug: As in the worm that turns Snails into zombies so the birds eat them to keep propagating.
Fungal: As in a "recent" video game, a fungus infection makes zombies
Viral: Like in the Resident Evil
Voodoo: Magic zombies
Not sure if necromantic zombies are different enough from the voodoo ones to include them.
So the idea is to have them be different in origin, aesthetics (maybe some aren't decomposing?) and mechanics.
Meaning not only one type might not be decomposing but one is faster, other is smarter (or can/must follow orders), etc.
Have any of you done something like it or seen it somewhere else?
Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 25, 2023, 10:49:59 PM
As you may know (or not) I'm working on a Pulp-ish game, I don't want to just copy paste the exact same monsters so I've been doing some changes and creating some new ones (will share some of those soonish).
Just like there's different types of Vampires from around the world I wanted to include different types of Zombies:
Bug: As in the worm that turns Snails into zombies so the birds eat them to keep propagating.
Fungal: As in a "recent" video game, a fungus infection makes zombies
Viral: Like in the Resident Evil
Voodoo: Magic zombies
Not sure if necromantic zombies are different enough from the voodoo ones to include them.
So the idea is to have them be different in origin, aesthetics (maybe some aren't decomposing?) and mechanics.
In most zombie movies, the different origin excuses are largely cosmetic. i.e. fungal zombies are functionally the same as viral zombies. However, there are different types of viral zombies within Resident Evil - ranging up to brutes and giant multi-body creatures.
In terms of abilities, there are slow zombies and fast zombies (and not much in between), and mindless zombies (i.e. insect-level intelligence) ranging up to semi-intelligent zombies. And there's whether a zombie bite will turn you into a zombie. That's most of the variation in zombie films. The vast majority closely mimic George Romero.
There were earlier voodoo zombie stories, mostly about the horror of a person's mind and soul still being in their body. It's a very different genre from zombie hordes following Romero. So I would go with generic necromantic/magic zombies.
Quote from: jhkim on April 25, 2023, 11:21:49 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 25, 2023, 10:49:59 PM
As you may know (or not) I'm working on a Pulp-ish game, I don't want to just copy paste the exact same monsters so I've been doing some changes and creating some new ones (will share some of those soonish).
Just like there's different types of Vampires from around the world I wanted to include different types of Zombies:
Bug: As in the worm that turns Snails into zombies so the birds eat them to keep propagating.
Fungal: As in a "recent" video game, a fungus infection makes zombies
Viral: Like in the Resident Evil
Voodoo: Magic zombies
Not sure if necromantic zombies are different enough from the voodoo ones to include them.
So the idea is to have them be different in origin, aesthetics (maybe some aren't decomposing?) and mechanics.
In most zombie movies, the different origin excuses are largely cosmetic. i.e. fungal zombies are functionally the same as viral zombies. However, there are different types of viral zombies within Resident Evil - ranging up to brutes and giant multi-body creatures.
In terms of abilities, there are slow zombies and fast zombies (and not much in between), and mindless zombies (i.e. insect-level intelligence) ranging up to semi-intelligent zombies. And there's whether a zombie bite will turn you into a zombie. That's most of the variation in zombie films. The vast majority closely mimic George Romero.
There were earlier voodoo zombie stories, mostly about the horror of a person's mind and soul still being in their body. It's a very different genre from zombie hordes following Romero. So I would go with generic necromantic/magic zombies.
IIRC Voodoo zombies can even talk, and if the witch got to them in time they're not decomposing. Not that they can figure out how to do X if it's a complex enough task.
I know that in the movies the differences are mostly cosmetic.
I don't want that in my game, I want them to be really different.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 25, 2023, 11:27:04 PM
IIRC Voodoo zombies can even talk, and if the witch got to them in time they're not decomposing. Not that they can figure out how to do X if it's a complex enough task.
I know that in the movies the differences are mostly cosmetic.
I don't want that in my game, I want them to be really different.
OK, so from what I'm hearing, you want zombies that are distinctive (i.e. not just mirroring the genre) but still evocative of zombie tropes.
Fungal zombies could be slow zombies, that explode with infectious spores when their skulls are broken.
Viral zombies could be fast zombies that are still semi-alive, and have sharp senses and some vestige of their human self, but only low animal intelligence. Their bite is infectious.
Bug zombies could be smart zombies that can haltingly talk, but it's the bug speaking, with no relation to the former person. A victim gets infected when a bug crawls in their ear.
For magic zombies, I'd want to know more about what magic is like in the rest of the background.
The Lucio Fulci classic, Zombie (aka Zombi 2) features voodoo zombies that are infectious.
And for that matter, so does the 1950s classic Zombies of Mora Tau. Well, maybe more a curse than voodoo. But still infectious.
Quote from: jhkim on April 25, 2023, 11:56:11 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 25, 2023, 11:27:04 PM
IIRC Voodoo zombies can even talk, and if the witch got to them in time they're not decomposing. Not that they can figure out how to do X if it's a complex enough task.
I know that in the movies the differences are mostly cosmetic.
I don't want that in my game, I want them to be really different.
OK, so from what I'm hearing, you want zombies that are distinctive (i.e. not just mirroring the genre) but still evocative of zombie tropes.
Fungal zombies could be slow zombies, that explode with infectious spores when their skulls are broken.
Viral zombies could be fast zombies that are still semi-alive, and have sharp senses and some vestige of their human self, but only low animal intelligence. Their bite is infectious.
Bug zombies could be smart zombies that can haltingly talk, but it's the bug speaking, with no relation to the former person. A victim gets infected when a bug crawls in their ear.
For magic zombies, I'd want to know more about what magic is like in the rest of the background.
What magic is like in the setting...
Okay, let's see, only low to medium magic is available to the PCs and most NPCs, this means there's no planar travel, at least not willing, the players might stumble with something that transports them to the past, future, other worlds by "magic" but they can't do this by themselves.
There's no resurrection.
The voodoo zombies can be magic or not, I'm not planing on making it clear. Maybe they're just under the influence of some unknown drug.
Low Fantasy.
My biggest complaint with modern monsters like Zombies that appear in "our world" is that they are all explainable via science and able to be combated by science. Vampires are caused by a blood disease, for example. I get that as storytrellers try to tell the same story again and again it is natural to use humanities actual and 100% real superpower.. our brains and apply it to supernatural situations... but the thing is I hate all that. Vampires are not just immortal douche bags that act exactly like any normal human but wear cool clothing and sit around in stupid euro-dance clubs. Vampirism should be a curse, a mystical curse and horrific curse at that. One which turns you into a hideous monster, that tourchers your soul. One that has no way of being explained by science. Having smeone look at a blood sample in a vampier movie and talk about invading cells or something is like midichlorians being the source of the force in star wars... it is lam af.
IMO, the best and easiest way to make a "new" take on monsters is to remove all that and go back to actual supernatural origins.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 25, 2023, 10:49:59 PMVoodoo: Magic zombies
As far as Zombies go... personally, I'm a huge movie fan of the original Voodoo Zombies. There is a lot of room for creative expansion when you remove the modern "disease" angle introduced in the late 60s. Some old school horror movie fans might notice some things, but many people won't even know the old movies starting with White Zombie in the 30s. If I was using zombie in a story, I'm almost 100% sure it would be either something like Voodoo or Evil Dead.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 25, 2023, 10:49:59 PMBug: As in the worm that turns Snails into zombies so the birds eat them to keep propagating.
I like this. It also means you can bypass the "shoot in the head" thing, as the bug is the thing you need to kill. You could even change the behaviour from random violence you see in modern zombies to something like Aliens, where they want to capture people and drag them into nests for consumption and breeding. Some kinf of controlling thing is a good idea imo.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 25, 2023, 10:49:59 PMFungal: As in a "recent" video game, a fungus infection makes zombies
narr... Pass on this for me. I think the idea is fine, but Last of Us is the most popular computer game of all time, and the TV show is one of the most popular on the planet. Even years latter, people will point to the work and go.. "last of us rip off". Game of Thrones is long gone, X-Files is long gone. Buffy is long gone... but people still can't reuse that stuff, it is just to famous and linked to those stories.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 25, 2023, 10:49:59 PMViral: Like in the Resident Evil
Yeah. See my original point. I really hate how zombies have been turned into something like a cold, and I mean that beyond the fact I want more supernatural in my horror. The virus thing just never hold water. The problem with using scientific concepts in your story, like Viruses, is that you need to make it bulletproof to the idea of viruses. Thing is we know viruses are real, and we understand them. That is, imo, why World War Z (one of the best zombie books ever written imo) is us avoiding the Apocalypse and winning, as there is NO WAY we couldn't beat zombies. Shoot a zombie and get splattered in blood, your fine... but one bites you.. you're stuffed? I can not even remember a time the zombie plague acted like a virus. It has never once made sense. A single tank and a guy with a can of petrol could destroy millions of zombies just by running over them on the freeway outside NY. Rage Monsters like in 24 Days latter make even less sense. People starve after 3 weeks of not eating. So the entire plague would only last a few months and be controllable pretty quick. I might not have even finished playing Horizon Forbidden West before the entire thing is over, and I never even noticed it happening.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 25, 2023, 10:49:59 PMNot sure if necromantic zombies are different enough from the voodoo ones to include them
well, a difference you could use, if you wanted to here, is that one is a true undead, the other is an enslaved, but alive, soul. You could infuse a lot of different characteristics using this to separate them.
In my mind, the Voodoo zombie retains its powers of speech and cogitation, and most of its original personality, but is subservient to the witch doctor that raised it. I prefer intelligent undead to mindless ones in general, and that approach helps differentiate them from George Romero style zombies. It also means there are a lot more interesting stories to play with. I also think of the voodoo zombie as being a more unique and rare creation, so where a Romero Zombie story almost necessarily requires hordes, I'd focus a voodoo adventure around a very small number of zombies that had been raised by the witch doctor for a specific purpose.
Another way of differentiating them would be to lean into the fact that Voodoo is not just a magic system, it's also a religion. One of my favorite examples of this is in the Terry Pratchett novel "Witches Abroad", where (SPOILER ALERT, and also paraphrasing) a witch raises her dead lover as a zombie, in order to make him into a vessel for the Voodoo gods. This gets to the point where by the climax of the story, he essentially becomes Baron Samedi. That's the outline of a pulp adventure right there.
There are a couple of other pop cultural versions of the "occult zombie" that might be worth considering as well:
One would be the Mummy. Personally I much prefer the Boris Karloff version where the mummy is more of an undead wizard, to the Christopher Lee version where it's kind of just a zombie in bandages. The 90s Mummy films (with Brendan Frasier) also engage with the idea of the undead as a sympathetic villain, so that's another approach.
Another would be the "Deadites" from the Evil Dead series. These seem to be human corpses possessed by demons? So that's another take on the undead you might use.
Outside of the undead world, there are versions of the voodoo zombie where they aren't corpses at all, but living people under the witch doctor's mind control. Possibly less interesting, but it has some pulp pedigree. There's a "The Shadow" pulp, which I've heard of but haven't read, called "The Voodoo Master" that uses that idea.
EDIT: Just saw that the above comment already mentioned the Evil Dead, so thought I'd acknowledge that.
I have done mission work in Haiti, which has Voodoo as its national religion. As such, I do know a thing or two about Voodoo zombies. How they're made and the mythology behind it. Witch doctors are very real domestic terrorists, and that bears out the instant you read the ingredients shared across most zombie powder formulae.
Zombie powder is a mix of of an extract from pufferfish (an absurdly toxic paralysis agent), cane toad skin (which causes the sensation of a religious experience like mescaline), a skin irritant, human feces, and ground glass. The idea is that you put the powder on your skin, where you will scratch. If you scratch too hard, the glass shards will tear small holes in your skin, smearing the feces into your bloodstream, which means you will die of an infection (usually tetanus.) If you do not scratch that hard, then the pufferfish and cane toad skin seep through the skin, causing a religious experience and a deep paralysis coma people have trouble distinguishing from actual death.
Now, Hatians usually bury their dead in above-ground concrete containers. The Witch doctor plays witch drums and a variety of other instruments which make truly terrifying and awful breathing noises, before breaking the container open and extracting the zombie. Usually, attempts to make zombies fail, meaning the zombie ingested too much of one of the drugs and died in the burial chamber, but I understand there are also cases where they didn't take in enough, they wake up, and successfully fight off the witch doctor. I came across an interview of a witch doctor where he said he attempted to make about 300 zombies in his career and succeeded 2 times, so this process has about 1% odds of success. In successful cases, the coma often causes brain damage because you can't breathe during the coma and parts of the brain asphyxiate. A Voodoo zombie is a mixture of the religious experience, hypnotic suggestion, brain damage, and the cultural expectation that zombies become the witch doctor's slave.
0 / 10. Do not recommend.
Quote from: jhkim on April 25, 2023, 11:56:11 PM
Viral zombies could be fast zombies that are still semi-alive, and have sharp senses and some vestige of their human self, but only low animal intelligence. Their bite is infectious.
Unless they are half-zombies like the "hambies" in All of Us Are Dead. They are as intelligent as they were before becoming infected, but have enhanced senses and become stronger. That said, I actually prefer the Voodoo zombies from folklore and earlier stories. Most "zombies" in fantasy rpgs are simply magically animated corpses and hardly differ from skeletons except that they still have some flesh on their bones.
Voodoo zombies are necromantic zombies. The distinction that exists is cultural. Zombies come from Voodoo folklore. Liches (euro-zombies) come from the writing of pulp writers like Clark Ashton Smith. You can also place astral/spectral zombies until this archetype. They're slaves created by a necromancer. Most religions believe your soul remains attached to your corpse until it's completely decayed into dust, so reanimating a corpse to be your slave is offensive to the deceased. The idea that corpses are just shells is a modern atheist convention.
Necroscope puts a spin in this by making the main character a medium who can summon zombies that are willing to help him. In that setting, souls remain conscious after death but get bored because they're stuck in their corpses waiting to completely decompose. The only thing they can do is think. The proximity of a necroscope seemingly allows them to reanimate their bodies, even dismembered. Since the necroscope is the only one who can talk to them and alleviate their boredom, they always come whenever he's in danger. Unfortunately, Lumley's writing comes across as Gary Stu a lot. Harry is never actually depicted as doing anything for the ghosts in return. They just help because he's the hero and can talk to them... whenever he needs something from them. Harry is never once depicted as talking to them just to talk. His interactions are always transactional.
The 2001 French RPG Nephilim: Revelation included a character type who could learn what was basically necroscopy. (There are so many similarities that I wonder if Necroscope was a direct influence.) However, it was stated that they still had to do favors for their "flock" or they'd become unpopular. I never played the game when it was in print or had interactions with the community, so I have no idea how many GMs enforced this.
The evil/hungry dead (ghouls, vampires, etc) are a different archetype. They got confused/conflated with liches/zombies in the 20th century.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 25, 2023, 10:49:59 PMBug: As in the worm that turns Snails into zombies so the birds eat them to keep propagating.
Fungal: As in a "recent" video game, a fungus infection makes zombies
Viral: Like in the Resident Evil
Voodoo: Magic zombies
There's also the option for some sort of mad scientist version of zombies. Since re-animating a human corpse was something that scientists did in 1803 (via Galvanism) which is what inspired Frankenstein fifteen years later. This would be similar, in practice, to voodoo zombies as it requires a secret formula or potion to perform with the potential of industrialization to expand the numbers of victims. Of course, voodoo zombies aren't always dead but sometimes just mind controlled living people (as in 1932's White Zombie).
When you say the game is "pulp" do you mean that it is set in the 1940s or just pulpy?
Quote from: hedgehobbit on April 26, 2023, 05:02:24 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 25, 2023, 10:49:59 PMBug: As in the worm that turns Snails into zombies so the birds eat them to keep propagating.
Fungal: As in a "recent" video game, a fungus infection makes zombies
Viral: Like in the Resident Evil
Voodoo: Magic zombies
There's also the option for some sort of mad scientist version of zombies. Since re-animating a human corpse was something that scientists did in 1803 (via Galvanism) which is what inspired Frankenstein fifteen years later. This would be similar, in practice, to voodoo zombies as it requires a secret formula or potion to perform with the potential of industrialization to expand the numbers of victims. Of course, voodoo zombies aren't always dead but sometimes just mind controlled living people (as in 1932's White Zombie).
When you say the game is "pulp" do you mean that it is set in the 1940s or just pulpy?
Yes, but unless you also make them mechanically different it's the same monster with a very thin coat of paint. I'm aiming at them being mechanically different. Some progress has been done.
I'm aiming at a post WWII setting, so there's also Commie Scum as the badies.
Are you familiar with All Flesh Must Be Eaten?
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse/pub/10/Eden-Studios/subcategory/57_60/All-Flesh-Must-Be-Eaten
http://texaszombie.com/
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 26, 2023, 05:39:00 PM
Are you familiar with All Flesh Must Be Eaten?
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse/pub/10/Eden-Studios/subcategory/57_60/All-Flesh-Must-Be-Eaten
http://texaszombie.com/
Not beyond knowing it exists.
Ever read Brian Keene's "the Rising"? It's a zombie apocalypse story that's less The Walking Dead, and more Evil Dead. The "zombies" are human and animal corpses possessed by the Siquisim, evil entities trapped in the void outside time and space by God when he created the universe.
Long story short, the zombies retain the memories of the host corpse and can use tools and talk (and not just the humans. Some people find it goofy, but I find the idea of a zombified Rottweiler cursing at you in Sumerian while it tries to tear your throat out terrifying).
So anyway, there's another idea to through on the pile.
Quote from: Tasty_Wind on April 26, 2023, 08:02:26 PM
Ever read Brian Keene's "the Rising"? It's a zombie apocalypse story that's less The Walking Dead, and more Evil Dead. The "zombies" are human and animal corpses possessed by the Siquisim, evil entities trapped in the void outside time and space by God when he created the universe.
Long story short, the zombies retain the memories of the host corpse and can use tools and talk (and not just the humans. Some people find it goofy, but I find the idea of a zombified Rottweiler cursing at you in Sumerian while it tries to tear your throat out terrifying).
So anyway, there's another idea to through on the pile.
Smart, demon ridden zombies? Sold!
Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 26, 2023, 07:02:09 PM
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 26, 2023, 05:39:00 PM
Are you familiar with All Flesh Must Be Eaten?
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse/pub/10/Eden-Studios/subcategory/57_60/All-Flesh-Must-Be-Eaten
http://texaszombie.com/
Not beyond knowing it exists.
It's extremely useful. It came out before the Hollywood zombie craze, but it's by far the most creative collection of zombie fiction in existence. I got it in a Bundle of Holding promo and it's amazing. It has campaign settings, "deadworlds", which explore a variety of wildly different takes on zombies. Alien zombies, genie wish zombies, several variations of nazi zombies, Irish potato famine zombies, STD zombies, voodoo zombies, cyborg zombies, ice cream zombies, Red Scare zombies, Frankenstein zombies, etc. It is extremely creative.
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 26, 2023, 09:02:08 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 26, 2023, 07:02:09 PM
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 26, 2023, 05:39:00 PM
Are you familiar with All Flesh Must Be Eaten?
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse/pub/10/Eden-Studios/subcategory/57_60/All-Flesh-Must-Be-Eaten
http://texaszombie.com/
Not beyond knowing it exists.
It's extremely useful. It came out before the Hollywood zombie craze, but it's by far the most creative collection of zombie fiction in existence. I got it in a Bundle of Holding promo and it's amazing. It has campaign settings, "deadworlds", which explore a variety of wildly different takes on zombies. Alien zombies, genie wish zombies, several variations of nazi zombies, Irish potato famine zombies, STD zombies, voodoo zombies, cyborg zombies, ice cream zombies, Red Scare zombies, Frankenstein zombies, etc. It is extremely creative.
The different zombies are mechanically different? Or is it just window-dressing?
Mechanically different. Stats get moved around to make them smarter, dumber, stronger, etc. There is a suite of zombie attributes to add as well that cover movement, attacks, senses, weaknesses, etc. The core book has a nice basic zombie creation system and then each splat book focuses on different genres for the setting/zombie.
- All Tomorrow's Zombies - sci-fi expansion and contains rules for starships, cyberpunk, and general future tech
- Atlas of the Walking Dead - upgraded zombie creation rules, based upon various legendary undead from around the world, including the Shuten-Doji ("Japanese Vampire"), Gyonshee ("Chinese Hopping Vampire") and Aztec Mummy
- Dungeons and Zombies - classic fantasy
- Enter the Zombie - Chinese/Japanese/Hong Kong zombies, including chi techniques, martial arts, and Gun Fu
- Fistful O' Zombies - Western-style setting material, rules for Deadlands as well as 'spaghetti western' and 'singing cowboy' settings
- Pulp Zombies - Pulp zombie settings and includes Mentalism rules
- Argh! Thar Be Zombies! - a pirate sourcebook, with rules for nautical combat and swashbuckling games
- Zombie Smackdown - a take on wrestling and fighting with a setting based on Mortal Kombat
Quote from: rgalex on April 27, 2023, 11:19:35 AM
Mechanically different. Stats get moved around to make them smarter, dumber, stronger, etc. There is a suite of zombie attributes to add as well that cover movement, attacks, senses, weaknesses, etc. The core book has a nice basic zombie creation system and then each splat book focuses on different genres for the setting/zombie.
- All Tomorrow's Zombies - sci-fi expansion and contains rules for starships, cyberpunk, and general future tech
- Atlas of the Walking Dead - upgraded zombie creation rules, based upon various legendary undead from around the world, including the Shuten-Doji ("Japanese Vampire"), Gyonshee ("Chinese Hopping Vampire") and Aztec Mummy
- Dungeons and Zombies - classic fantasy
- Enter the Zombie - Chinese/Japanese/Hong Kong zombies, including chi techniques, martial arts, and Gun Fu
- Fistful O' Zombies - Western-style setting material, rules for Deadlands as well as 'spaghetti western' and 'singing cowboy' settings
- Pulp Zombies - Pulp zombie settings and includes Mentalism rules
- Argh! Thar Be Zombies! - a pirate sourcebook, with rules for nautical combat and swashbuckling games
- Zombie Smackdown - a take on wrestling and fighting with a setting based on Mortal Kombat
Thanks! It's Fate tho, I don't want to give money to Ass Hat.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 27, 2023, 11:55:55 AM
Quote from: rgalex on April 27, 2023, 11:19:35 AM
Mechanically different. Stats get moved around to make them smarter, dumber, stronger, etc. There is a suite of zombie attributes to add as well that cover movement, attacks, senses, weaknesses, etc. The core book has a nice basic zombie creation system and then each splat book focuses on different genres for the setting/zombie.
- All Tomorrow's Zombies - sci-fi expansion and contains rules for starships, cyberpunk, and general future tech
- Atlas of the Walking Dead - upgraded zombie creation rules, based upon various legendary undead from around the world, including the Shuten-Doji ("Japanese Vampire"), Gyonshee ("Chinese Hopping Vampire") and Aztec Mummy
- Dungeons and Zombies - classic fantasy
- Enter the Zombie - Chinese/Japanese/Hong Kong zombies, including chi techniques, martial arts, and Gun Fu
- Fistful O' Zombies - Western-style setting material, rules for Deadlands as well as 'spaghetti western' and 'singing cowboy' settings
- Pulp Zombies - Pulp zombie settings and includes Mentalism rules
- Argh! Thar Be Zombies! - a pirate sourcebook, with rules for nautical combat and swashbuckling games
- Zombie Smackdown - a take on wrestling and fighting with a setting based on Mortal Kombat
Thanks! It's Fate tho, I don't want to give money to Ass Hat.
No, it uses Unisystem.
https://www.edenstudios.net/images/afmbedemokit.pdf
I don't think anyone has mentioned Return of the Living Dead style zombies. As in, the ones that you cannot kill, ever. They usually just round them up and put them in storage between movies, but they always get out eventually...
Definitely not the most fun to deal with, but could be interesting as an escalation of things if the standard head shot becomes boring.
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 27, 2023, 12:11:42 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 27, 2023, 11:55:55 AM
Quote from: rgalex on April 27, 2023, 11:19:35 AM
Mechanically different. Stats get moved around to make them smarter, dumber, stronger, etc. There is a suite of zombie attributes to add as well that cover movement, attacks, senses, weaknesses, etc. The core book has a nice basic zombie creation system and then each splat book focuses on different genres for the setting/zombie.
- All Tomorrow's Zombies - sci-fi expansion and contains rules for starships, cyberpunk, and general future tech
- Atlas of the Walking Dead - upgraded zombie creation rules, based upon various legendary undead from around the world, including the Shuten-Doji ("Japanese Vampire"), Gyonshee ("Chinese Hopping Vampire") and Aztec Mummy
- Dungeons and Zombies - classic fantasy
- Enter the Zombie - Chinese/Japanese/Hong Kong zombies, including chi techniques, martial arts, and Gun Fu
- Fistful O' Zombies - Western-style setting material, rules for Deadlands as well as 'spaghetti western' and 'singing cowboy' settings
- Pulp Zombies - Pulp zombie settings and includes Mentalism rules
- Argh! Thar Be Zombies! - a pirate sourcebook, with rules for nautical combat and swashbuckling games
- Zombie Smackdown - a take on wrestling and fighting with a setting based on Mortal Kombat
Thanks! It's Fate tho, I don't want to give money to Ass Hat.
No, it uses Unisystem.
https://www.edenstudios.net/images/afmbedemokit.pdf
Neat! Must have mixed it with something else.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 27, 2023, 12:19:12 PM
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 27, 2023, 12:11:42 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 27, 2023, 11:55:55 AM
Quote from: rgalex on April 27, 2023, 11:19:35 AM
Mechanically different. Stats get moved around to make them smarter, dumber, stronger, etc. There is a suite of zombie attributes to add as well that cover movement, attacks, senses, weaknesses, etc. The core book has a nice basic zombie creation system and then each splat book focuses on different genres for the setting/zombie.
- All Tomorrow's Zombies - sci-fi expansion and contains rules for starships, cyberpunk, and general future tech
- Atlas of the Walking Dead - upgraded zombie creation rules, based upon various legendary undead from around the world, including the Shuten-Doji ("Japanese Vampire"), Gyonshee ("Chinese Hopping Vampire") and Aztec Mummy
- Dungeons and Zombies - classic fantasy
- Enter the Zombie - Chinese/Japanese/Hong Kong zombies, including chi techniques, martial arts, and Gun Fu
- Fistful O' Zombies - Western-style setting material, rules for Deadlands as well as 'spaghetti western' and 'singing cowboy' settings
- Pulp Zombies - Pulp zombie settings and includes Mentalism rules
- Argh! Thar Be Zombies! - a pirate sourcebook, with rules for nautical combat and swashbuckling games
- Zombie Smackdown - a take on wrestling and fighting with a setting based on Mortal Kombat
Thanks! It's Fate tho, I don't want to give money to Ass Hat.
No, it uses Unisystem.
https://www.edenstudios.net/images/afmbedemokit.pdf
Neat! Must have mixed it with something else.
It's a great game with a great system that gives you the ability to create the type of zombie you want with origins from voodoo, cosmic rays, fungal, nanomachines or whatever. If I remember right the core book has a campaign seed where the PC's are zombies. The only thing I've seen that focuses on giving so many options for a single monster is Nights Black Agents with vampires and that doesn't go anywhere near outliers like luchadors.
Exactly. AFMBE is basically NBA with zombies and some more material. It's actually structured much like one of those universal ttrpgs, but where GURPS might make just GURPS Undead or GURPS Blood Types, these games expand the premises of those books into entire product lines. Sort of like how D&D is trying to be generic fantasy, but without the idiosyncratic baked-in sacred cows. The approach taken in AFMBE and NBA provides more focus than something like D&D, and more flexibility too, while avoiding the huffing of one's own fumes that afflicts lore/metaplot-driven rpgs. It's a guide to writing for a particular genre, with copious examples, but in rpg form.
Headcrabs
Quote from: Corolinth on April 27, 2023, 01:53:09 PM
Headcrabs
YES, I thought about alien zombies using the headcrabs.
Quote from: Fheredin on April 26, 2023, 08:25:42 AM
I have done mission work in Haiti, which has Voodoo as its national religion. As such, I do know a thing or two about Voodoo zombies.
(snip)
Tht is actually very interesting (and terrifying), thanks. I was under the impression that Voudoun zombies weren't actually dead, but just hypnotized by the witch doctor and forced to do their bidding. It definitely is quite different from the rest of the zombie origins, though, in spite of having originated them.
Here in Brazil our Voudoun-equivalent,
Candomblé or
Macumba, is generally more oriented to white magic (at the worst they promise to "bring your loved one to you in three days"), but some "mesa preta" or "quimbanda" practitioners still can be found if one goes looking for them. They'll generally just cast death curses on people, though, and generally not muck around with pharmacopoeia like you describe in Haiti...
Quote from: Wtrmute on April 27, 2023, 04:23:07 PM
Quote from: Fheredin on April 26, 2023, 08:25:42 AM
I have done mission work in Haiti, which has Voodoo as its national religion. As such, I do know a thing or two about Voodoo zombies.
Tht is actually very interesting (and terrifying), thanks. I was under the impression that Voudoun zombies weren't actually dead, but just hypnotized by the witch doctor and forced to do their bidding. It definitely is quite different from the rest of the zombie origins, though, in spite of having originated them.
Here in Brazil our Voudoun-equivalent, Candomblé or Macumba, is generally more oriented to white magic (at the worst they promise to "bring your loved one to you in three days"), but some "mesa preta" or "quimbanda" practitioners still can be found if one goes looking for them. They'll generally just cast death curses on people, though, and generally not muck around with pharmacopoeia like you describe in Haiti...
My understanding is that normal practice of Haitian voodoo is also oriented to white magic. Fheredin described zombie-making witch doctors as "domestic terrorists" - which I think means they are the equivalent of fringe criminals (like abusive cults and predatory preachers) rather than the religious practice of normal people. Wtrmute, correct me if I'm misreading you here.
I read two books by Haitian voodoo practitioners as preparation for a larp that I designed set in 1920s Haiti. They didn't say anything about zombies, but they had a lot about charms and calling in loa. Maybe they weren't accurately representing what most Haitians believe, but they seemed on the level.
Roughly speaking, the origin of the zombie is closely related to the sugar plantations. Large swaths of the population of Haiti were enslaved. The zombie reflects their existential dread of continuing to be enslaved after death.
As Christopher Hitchens was fond of saying, "At least you can die and leave North Korea."
Quote from: jhkim on April 27, 2023, 06:13:28 PM
Fheredin described zombie-making witch doctors as "domestic terrorists" - which I think means they are the equivalent of fringe criminals (like abusive cults and predatory preachers) rather than the religious practice of normal people.
Unless they are like the cultists in Nigeria, some of whom have considerable political clout. They'd make great adversaries in a CoC campaign, though.
I remember hearing a rumor that families would hire bokors to zombify family members they felt deserved it.
Quote from: jhkim on April 27, 2023, 06:13:28 PM
Quote from: Wtrmute on April 27, 2023, 04:23:07 PM
Quote from: Fheredin on April 26, 2023, 08:25:42 AM
I have done mission work in Haiti, which has Voodoo as its national religion. As such, I do know a thing or two about Voodoo zombies.
Tht is actually very interesting (and terrifying), thanks. I was under the impression that Voudoun zombies weren't actually dead, but just hypnotized by the witch doctor and forced to do their bidding. It definitely is quite different from the rest of the zombie origins, though, in spite of having originated them.
Here in Brazil our Voudoun-equivalent, Candomblé or Macumba, is generally more oriented to white magic (at the worst they promise to "bring your loved one to you in three days"), but some "mesa preta" or "quimbanda" practitioners still can be found if one goes looking for them. They'll generally just cast death curses on people, though, and generally not muck around with pharmacopoeia like you describe in Haiti...
My understanding is that normal practice of Haitian voodoo is also oriented to white magic. Fheredin described zombie-making witch doctors as "domestic terrorists" - which I think means they are the equivalent of fringe criminals (like abusive cults and predatory preachers) rather than the religious practice of normal people. Wtrmute, correct me if I'm misreading you here.
I read two books by Haitian voodoo practitioners as preparation for a larp that I designed set in 1920s Haiti. They didn't say anything about zombies, but they had a lot about charms and calling in loa. Maybe they weren't accurately representing what most Haitians believe, but they seemed on the level.
The Serpent and the Rainbow is a pretty good book for Haitian zombies historically and sociologically, the film isn't.
Quote from: Rhymer88 on April 28, 2023, 06:51:58 AM
Quote from: jhkim on April 27, 2023, 06:13:28 PM
Fheredin described zombie-making witch doctors as "domestic terrorists" - which I think means they are the equivalent of fringe criminals (like abusive cults and predatory preachers) rather than the religious practice of normal people.
Unless they are like the cultists in Nigeria, some of whom have considerable political clout. They'd make great adversaries in a CoC campaign, though.
Agreed that there are places and times when domestic terrorists have mainstream clout. The KKK had considerable clout in late 19th/early 20th century US. The Lord's Resistance Army currently has clout in Uganda and the DRC.
I don't think bokor in Haiti are like any of these in real life, though.
Quote from: jhkim on April 27, 2023, 06:13:28 PM
My understanding is that normal practice of Haitian voodoo is also oriented to white magic. Fheredin described zombie-making witch doctors as "domestic terrorists" - which I think means they are the equivalent of fringe criminals (like abusive cults and predatory preachers) rather than the religious practice of normal people. Wtrmute, correct me if I'm misreading you here.
I read two books by Haitian voodoo practitioners as preparation for a larp that I designed set in 1920s Haiti. They didn't say anything about zombies, but they had a lot about charms and calling in loa. Maybe they weren't accurately representing what most Haitians believe, but they seemed on the level.
Oh, I agree, I didn't mean to imply that it was otherwise; only that the black magic practitioners in one seem to be much more, for lack of a better word,
hard core than the others. The worst I've heard about practitioners of
Quimbanda, black
Candomblé or black
Santería is abduction of corpses in cemeteries, and there is reason to doubt even those reports; the worst I can give you a high probability of being extant these days only rises to the level of animal cruelty or stealing Catholic Blessed Hosts.
The common, White variety of
Candomblé and
Umbanda deals with the same kind of spirit summoning for consultation, spirit healing and exorcism, and some love charms and sympathies (although I would hesitate to call these last ones white magic, seeing as they are trying to subvert the victim's free will); in any case the same thing your sources report for White Voudoun.
Quote from: Wtrmute on April 28, 2023, 06:24:51 PM
Quote from: jhkim on April 27, 2023, 06:13:28 PM
My understanding is that normal practice of Haitian voodoo is also oriented to white magic. Fheredin described zombie-making witch doctors as "domestic terrorists" - which I think means they are the equivalent of fringe criminals (like abusive cults and predatory preachers) rather than the religious practice of normal people. Wtrmute, correct me if I'm misreading you here.
I read two books by Haitian voodoo practitioners as preparation for a larp that I designed set in 1920s Haiti. They didn't say anything about zombies, but they had a lot about charms and calling in loa. Maybe they weren't accurately representing what most Haitians believe, but they seemed on the level.
Oh, I agree, I didn't mean to imply that it was otherwise; only that the black magic practitioners in one seem to be much more, for lack of a better word, hard core than the others. The worst I've heard about practitioners of Quimbanda, black Candomblé or black Santería is abduction of corpses in cemeteries, and there is reason to doubt even those reports; the worst I can give you a high probability of being extant these days only rises to the level of animal cruelty or stealing Catholic Blessed Hosts.
The common, White variety of Candomblé and Umbanda deals with the same kind of spirit summoning for consultation, spirit healing and exorcism, and some love charms and sympathies (although I would hesitate to call these last ones white magic, seeing as they are trying to subvert the victim's free will); in any case the same thing your sources report for White Voudoun.
Cool, glad we agree.
I'd highly recommend GURPS Voodoo as an RPG adaptation, by the way. It's not a generic sourcebook like some GURPS books, but rather a unique setting by CJ Carella. It's a great modern urban fantasy setting that uses a lot of all the white magic as the basis.
Relating a bit to the thread title - I do find it a little annoying that when some people hear "Voodoo" they only think of horror movie zombies or maybe voodoo dolls. There's a lot more interesting material that comes from actual practice.