Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on January 05, 2025, 09:39:39 PM

Quote from: SHARK on January 05, 2025, 07:34:05 PMGreetings!

I purchased the book Vornheim, by Zak S. Vornheim is a disorganized and scribbled mess, that I think is thoroughly uninspiring and mostly useless. After thoroughly reading through the book, hoping to find the much-proclaimed "Brilliance" I was convinced I have no interest in anything that Zak S. has written. Vornheim has remained somewhere on my bookshelves, discarded and forgotten. I own books and supplements that are far superior, many of which are an absolute pleasure to read and use. All of the proclamations that Zak S. is some brilliant writer, artist, and visionary game designer, whatever, I think are entirely exaggerated and overblown. The book as a whole is mediocre at best, in any regard.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Agree Shark. I bought it some years ago after reading the hype. I was saying to myself is that it?
Horses for courses and all that. But the ideas inside were not to my taste at all they were far too whimsical and 'wacky'.

Greetings!

Rob my friend! "IS THAT IT?" *Laughing*

Brother, I said exactly that to myself after I read through the Vornheim book! Whimsical and wacky is right! Melan, here over in the REVIEWS section, provides his own thoughts and assesssment of Vornheim, and he includes pictures and diagrams! *Laughing* Melan also digs down into some of the design details, and nails it like a carpenter using a nail gun. Scribbled, half-developed, style and gimmicks over real substance and work.

Obviously, I feel the same way, and we are most definitely not alone.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: Brad on January 05, 2025, 07:43:27 PM

Quote from: SHARK on January 05, 2025, 07:34:05 PMGreetings!

I purchased the book Vornheim, by Zak S. Vornheim is a disorganized and scribbled mess, that I think is thoroughly uninspiring and mostly useless. After thoroughly reading through the book, hoping to find the much-proclaimed "Brilliance" I was convinced I have no interest in anything that Zak S. has written. Vornheim has remained somewhere on my bookshelves, discarded and forgotten. I own books and supplements that are far superior, many of which are an absolute pleasure to read and use. All of the proclamations that Zak S. is some brilliant writer, artist, and visionary game designer, whatever, I think are entirely exaggerated and overblown. The book as a whole is mediocre at best, in any regard.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

100% agree. I did NOT like Vornheim, I reviewed it when it came out, was told I "didn't get it." Sold it for enough money to buy Nobilis which I really didn't get.

Greetings!

*Laughing* "You didn't get it!" Oh, Geesus man. Yeah, I can laugh at such an idea, just ribbing you. But clearly, all of these fans of his proclaiming his revolutionary brilliance and how stellar his books are--somehow, people like us, Brad, just aren't "Getting It!". There is just something we aren't seeing that all these other people are so deeply impressed with. *Shrugs* Yeah, like, whatever, you know?

I haven't bought another product by Zak, because Vornheim was so messy, scribbled, and useless to me.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I wonder if the folks raving about Vornheim actually used it in play or if they just read it and thought I don't use Cities but if I did that would be great 5 stars!.

I never raved about it but I did get some useful ideas from it. Other than the art style not being your thing, I don't get the hate. It's mostly a shortcut tool book for when you need to generate a city quickly.

Quote from: Mistwell on January 07, 2025, 10:05:01 AMI never raved about it but I did get some useful ideas from it. Other than the art style not being your thing, I don't get the hate. It's mostly a shortcut tool book for when you need to generate a city quickly.

I don't have any "hate", I simply didn't find it any more useful than the countless other city generation books that came out before it. All those Citybooks that FBI put out were had more utility for me than Vornheim without an art style I disliked.

Why is it that people can't criticize ZakS' books without this sort of pushback...hatred has nothing to do with it.

Quote from: Brad on January 07, 2025, 12:47:00 PMWhy is it that people can't criticize ZakS' books without this sort of pushback...hatred has nothing to do with it.

There's a certain group of posters here (not counting the newbies with 10 posts or the possible socks) who must disagree with anything posted on this board, especially posts with a strident or universalist tone.  I don't know enough about the posters' true selves to speculate too much, but I have noticed a certain class of people who live by vacillating between whatever ideas seem to be popular at the moment, never declaring their allegiance to any set of firm principles, and always trying to split the baby (we call them "moderates").  I would imagine if that is the way they approach life, they would probably approach their hobbies the same way.

I am reminded of Revelation 3:16 - "So, because you are lukewarm, neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth."  That or the old adage, "Those who walk down the center of the road get run over by the traffic going both ways..."