TheQuartering guy was attacked at Gencon. See-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Yst30wdSzQ&t=0s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7SXqzUKOK0&t=0s
Gen Con's reaction has been pretty pathetic; blocking people on Twitter and banning people for commenting on their Twitch stream.
I watched that guys video - there's not much context.
What make this a SJW attack?
um, the second video shows the guy with a shirt that says he punches nazi's and the quartering guy makes anti-sjw videos. It seems pretty clear cut.
I was wondering if something was gonna happen when he said he was going to Gencon.
Well I hope the guy who assaulted him gets jail time.
Quote from: mhensley;1051222um, the second video shows the guy with a shirt that says he punches nazi's and the quartering guy makes anti-sjw videos. It seems pretty clear cut.
I'd only seen the first video.
Who is the victim though? That's still the bit of context that's missing. Is he someone that an idiot might believe is a nazi? What makes this attack politically motivated?
Quote from: hedgehobbit;1051220Gen Con's reaction has been pretty pathetic; blocking people on Twitter and banning people for commenting on their Twitch stream.
Gencon are endorsing the attacker??
Quote from: TJS;1051224I'd only seen the first video.
Who is the victim though? That's still the bit of context that's missing. Is he someone that an idiot might believe is a nazi? What makes this attack politically motivated?
The guy who got hit is a sort of YoutTube personality critical of WotC and a Political commentator for the most part.
Extreme left groups call him a Nazi of course..
I'm not surprised he got attacked by the Extreme left, he has been very critical of Left wing groups, mostly critical of the groups on the Extreme left.
The guy who attacked him was most likely mentally unstable IMO.
Quote from: TJS;1051224I'd only seen the first video.
Who is the victim though? That's still the bit of context that's missing. Is he someone that an idiot might believe is a nazi? What makes this attack politically motivated?
He was formerly known as MTGHeadquarters, I believe, but WotC banned him from Magic for "harassment" because he had the wrong opinions on social media. Now he mostly does anti-SJW videos on YouTube, although I've seen him cover other stuff like the troubles that Stan Lee has been having lately.
Quote from: danskmacabre;1051226The guy who attacked him was most likely mentally unstable IMO.
Apparently the attacker owns a game store and is a game designer.
Quote from: mhensley;1051228Apparently the attacker owns a game store and is a game designer.
Oh... That's interesting... yeah this is gonna have a lot of mileage then if they've actually identified the guy.
So did they get a name of the person and the store he runs?
What games did he design?
Quote from: danskmacabre;1051226The guy who got hit is a sort of YoutTube personality critical of WotC and a Political commentator for the most part.
Extreme left groups call him a Nazi of course..
I'm not surprised he got attacked by the Extreme left, he has been very critical of Left wing groups, mostly critical of the groups on the Extreme left.
The guy who attacked him was most likely mentally unstable IMO.
Quote from: Brand55;1051227He was formerly known as MTGHeadquarters, I believe, but WotC banned him from Magic for "harassment" because he had the wrong opinions on social media. Now he mostly does anti-SJW videos on YouTube, although I've seen him cover other stuff like the troubles that Stan Lee has been having lately.
Thank you.
Quote from: danskmacabre;1051229Oh... That's interesting... yeah this is gonna have a lot of mileage then if they've actually identified the guy.
So did they get a name of the person and the store he runs?
What games did he design?
I don't want to get in trouble by posting names here, but if you watch the second video and look at the comment section there you'll get all the info you desire.
Quote from: mhensley;1051231I don't want to get in trouble by posting names here, but if you watch the second video and look at the comment section there you'll get all the info you desire.
OK, thanx for the heads up.
Just saw a recent video by the Quartering guy.
His assailant has been identified and the Quartering guy has since called the Police to file a report.
It's his intention to press charges and most likely the guy will get jail time it seems.
The quartering guy is staying at Gencon too, so that's nice.
He's a brave guy to stick around.
Well, I hope there's no violent reaction to this either way, as the assailant is most likely to see justice as we would hope.
Apparently Gencon is banning people from their chat room for even asking about this. Lots of good info to be found here on twitter-
https://twitter.com/search?q=TheQuartering
Heres a print summary of events
https://www.oneangrygamer.net/2018/08/matt-loter-from-elm-city-games-allegedly-attacked-jeremy-hambly-from-the-quartering-at-gencon-2018/65450/ (https://www.oneangrygamer.net/2018/08/matt-loter-from-elm-city-games-allegedly-attacked-jeremy-hambly-from-the-quartering-at-gencon-2018/65450/)
Another article about the incident providing more details. (http://boundingintocomics.com/2018/08/02/the-quarterings-jeremy-hambly-attacked-at-gencon-2018/)
The Magic the Gathering subreddit has strobed through all the colors: it happened and while it's terrible maybe now he'll watch his mouth, it happened and it's wonderful : punch what we define as a Nazi today!, it probably didn't happen, it didn't happen at all. Oh, and, like big throbbing purple, "We'll lock/delete any threads on this topic" now that the paint is drying on the facts.
Bloody hell.
Gencon's failure to say anything, not even "We're looking into it" is shameful.
I think maybe it's time to report this story to DrudgeReport. Probably has national interest.
Quote from: Mistwell;1051247Bloody hell.
Gencon's failure to say anything, not even "We're looking into it" is shameful.
I think maybe it's time to report this story to DrudgeReport. Probably has national interest.
I'm pretty sure Michelle Malkin and Rush Limbaugh would be interested.
Quote from: jeff37923;1051248I'm pretty sure Michelle Malkin and Rush Limbaugh would be interested.
Maybe Dennis Miller, it's political and has a built in joke.
"So an ass and a douche walk into a bar....."
If that is the person they identified then add kickstarter fraud to his list of misdeeds. Game funded in 2013 and still nada. Oh but he can work on plenty of other stuff. Thanks for the free cash I guess.
Quote from: Omega;1051253If that is the person they identified then add kickstarter fraud to his list of misdeeds. Game funded in 2013 and still nada. Oh but he can work on plenty of other stuff. Thanks for the free cash I guess.
Yeah I just saw that. Guy was flying to Essen two years ago during his last official update. How nice for him.
Now now let's not level fraud accusations on a KS that's only missed deliverables by 5 years. He's still half a decade behind The Far West.
But I digress: at least Skarka didn't assault anyone and then try to disappear down the rabbit hole.
Quote from: thedungeondelver;1051270Now now let's not level fraud accusations on a KS that's only missed deliverables by 5 years. He's still half a decade behind The Far West.
If it is the same guy, and indicators are it is. Then it is wryly ironic that his game was worded to appeal to SJWs and then he ripped them off.
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Apparently he and his business partners do card games. Tiny weird card games.
http://prettiestprincessgames.com/games/
Quote from: Brand55;1051227He was formerly known as MTGHeadquarters, I believe, but WotC banned him from Magic for "harassment" because he had the wrong opinions on social media. Now he mostly does anti-SJW videos on YouTube, although I've seen him cover other stuff like the troubles that Stan Lee has been having lately.
Actually he was banned for continued harassment of a cosplayer. Banned in every single capacity from all Magic: the Gathering events. The guy is a piece of shit.
Yet again, for the record, ALL political violence is wrong.
Free Speech is ALL OF US defending the rights of PEOPLE WITH OPPOSITE OPINIONS to freely express themselves.
I do hope the person who was assaulted presses charges to the fullest extent of the law.
This bullshit ONLY stops when people push back.
Quote from: Mistwell;1051247I think maybe it's time to report this story to DrudgeReport. Probably has national interest.
Good test of D&D's popularity!
Ok...I read a bunch of the comment sections about this incident.
I am VERY concerned about the number of people who approve of the violence.
Denouncing your political opponents is a gazillion percent fine, even with mega-vitriol, but supporting physical attacks on people who vote differently? WTF.
Quote from: Diffan;1051275Actually he was banned for continued harassment of a cosplayer.
AIR the alleged 'harassment' was online disagreement. Which I know in SJW World is a jailable offence, but your post was misleading.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1051277I am VERY concerned about the number of people who approve of the violence.
This is what happens when the media say it's ok to punch an actual Nazi - soon the socjus scum are punching anyone who disagrees with them, and anyone who got punched must be a Nazi by definition.
Quote from: S'mon;1051281AIR the alleged 'harassment' was online disagreement. Which I know in SJW World is a jailable offence, but your post was misleading.
Yeah a company perma-banned a guy for a trivial online disagreement.....
And I don't think he should've been attacked. That's the problem with kicking a piece of shit, it ends up still on your shoe. Ignore it and move on.
Quote from: Diffan;1051285Yeah a company perma-banned a guy for a trivial online disagreement.....
Yup. That kind of thing is what happens now. Hell people have been prosecuted for trivial online disagreements.
Who would have thought self-appointed nazi punchers would simply decide they could punch random people they disliked?
A ton of historical experience about mob rule?
That can't be it. Surely this time is different, and only the bad people will get punched.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1051277Ok...I read a bunch of the comment sections about this incident.
I am VERY concerned about the number of people who approve of the violence.
Denouncing your political opponents is a gazillion percent fine, even with mega-vitriol, but supporting physical attacks on people who vote differently? WTF.
Yeah it's disgusting.
Quote from: Diffan;1051275Actually he was banned for continued harassment of a cosplayer. Banned in every single capacity from all Magic: the Gathering events. The guy is a piece of shit.
No, it wasn't continued. It was also just pointing how scummy it was to ask for Patreon money for effectively doing nothing, because she was tired of cosplaying, with some made up story that gamers LIKE YOU AND I are monsters. Then gets rehired by MTG anyway.
And he didn't just get banned, he had his entire online collection of MTG product 'confiscated' without recompense. Thousands of dollars worth, all because he didn't like that this young lady decided to effectively prostitute herself via patreon.
Quote from: Diffan;1051285Yeah a company perma-banned a guy for a trivial online disagreement.....
Oh, yes, they do. Look up James Damore, who simply wanted to get women INTO tech, but they posted an INTERNAL memo he made publicly so the world can socially lynch him. Then Google fired him after twisting his words.
Quote from: S'mon;1051283This is what happens when the media say it's ok to punch an actual Nazi - soon the socjus scum are punching anyone who disagrees with them, and anyone who got punched must be a Nazi by definition.
Precisely, the most extreme wing of the "progressive" movement has already moved into full fascist mode, considering violence a perfectly legitimate tool to achieve political ends. "Nazis" are fair game, and in their definition, anyone who disagrees with them is a "Nazi" by default.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;1051290Oh, yes, they do. Look up James Damore, who simply wanted to get women INTO tech, but they posted an INTERNAL memo he made publicly so the world can socially lynch him. Then Google fired him after twisting his words.
You mean the guy who said women have a biologically stronger interest in people rather than things, and tending to be more social, artistic, and prone to neuroticism?
Fuck outta here....
Quote from: Diffan;1051293You mean the guy who said women have a biologically stronger interest in people rather than things, and tending to be more social, artistic, and prone to neuroticism?
Fuck outta here....
And all of that, Science has known for decades. If you'll let go off the reservation for a bit, it's the reason women are in retail manning the cashes and the men in retail are in the back doing inventory, despite the scientific fact that women have better organizational skills than men, but men have better computational skill. But because women are naturally more social, the big retail businesses like Macy's and now Walmart put them in the people jobs, because psychologically, both men and women find a woman serving them to be more soothing. So they put the men where no one can see them, in the back with the boxes.
Everything he said, everything he laid out is well known facts that no one on the political left wants to hear, because it means that women cannot be men. And I don't know about you, I like women being women! If I wanted men, I'd be gay. But I am not.
But because Feminism actually rules the West with an iron fist, with its Marxist/Post-Modernist bullshit that every one can do everything, there are no losers, no stupid people, all potential geniuses, we get extreme reactions like 'The Quartering' being assaulted by an idiot who thinks he has moral superiority.
Sorry Chief, but having an opinion is not a crime. This was a nothing burger that the Cosplayer that got upset at his opinion decided to sic public opinion on him. I'll be honest with you, I don't like The Quartering, I find him smarmy and self-righteous, but unlike most of the extreme leftist alt-lifestyle freaks, he actually provides PROOF, EVIDENCE, unless he states it as opinion.
And here's the facts to what happened. A man assaulted another at the Geneva Convention, which in American Law is a crime.
Quote from: Diffan;1051293You mean the guy who said women have a biologically stronger interest in people rather than things, and tending to be more social, artistic, and prone to neuroticism?
You're free to disagree (although AFAICT the evidence weighs heavily against you), but if you think saying that in a private memo is either a valid firing offence or merits physical attack, then you're a morally worthless human being.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;1051294but men have better computational skill
I don't want to detract from your main point, but I have worked in and know the literature on mathematical ability as it differs between the sexes. No metastudy has ever really shown a clear difference. Now there are other psychological traits that do show a divergence and several physical ones (beyond the obvious ones like men are physically stronger) such as women being able to distinguish colours better because the colour discrimination gene is carried on the X chromosome. However for mathematics it's not the case.
There was a paper that did the rounds in popular media a few years back where the authors found that although the average mathematical ability was the same between sexes, men had more outliers (i.e. more who were terrible and more who were excellent), but this disappeared with better statistical controls and further metastudies haven't backed it up.
Unless by calculational ability you mean something besides pure mathematical capability.
I should say of course attacking the guy is not on.
Quote from: S'mon;1051298You're free to disagree (although AFAICT the evidence weighs heavily against you), but if you think saying that in a private memo is either a valid firing offence or merits physical attack, then you're a morally worthless human being.
Whether or not it's a fireable offense is up to the company that makes the policies not me. And I already said it didn't warrant an attack.
Quote from: Diffan;1051302Whether or not it's a fireable offense is up to the company that makes the policies not me.
OK:
if you think saying that in a private memo is something a company SHOULD fire someone for,
then...Edit: It wasn't a company 'policy' BTW, it was an arbitrary decision by a Google bigwig whose feelings were apparently hurt.
Back to the OP ...
In my opinion, it is never OK to assault someone, except in self defence.
There are a lot of people whose views I don't agree with, but that does not give me any right to assault them.
I am, of course, a wishy-washy liberal in the UK, which probably makes me quite lefty on the US scale, but I am pretty much against violence in real life, so am appalled that such a thing would happen at a games convention. You would think that games cons nowadays would have a policy regarding harrassment and assault. I take people's word that the alleged perpetrator has been defended, or not punished, by the games con organisors. Although "innocent until proven guilty" is a principle of the western world, it looks as though the alleged perpertrator should have at least been banned from the con. Trial by Internet seems to have already started, though, which is a shame.
Quote from: soltakss;1051304You would think that games cons nowadays would have a policy regarding harrassment and assault.
They do, of course... but those policies are not intended to, and do not, prevent actual harassment and assault. They, and the demands for them, are virtue-signalling exercises which may even be used to enable actual harassment.
Quote from: soltakss;1051304Back to the OP ...
In my opinion, it is never OK to assault someone, except in self defence.
There are a lot of people whose views I don't agree with, but that does not give me any right to assault them.
I am, of course, a wishy-washy liberal in the UK, which probably makes me quite lefty on the US scale, but I am pretty much against violence in real life, so am appalled that such a thing would happen at a games convention. You would think that games cons nowadays would have a policy regarding harrassment and assault. I take people's word that the alleged perpetrator has been defended, or not punished, by the games con organisors. Although "innocent until proven guilty" is a principle of the western world, it looks as though the alleged perpertrator should have at least been banned from the con. Trial by Internet seems to have already started, though, which is a shame.
I'm a Heinlein worshipping Libertarian from the USA which probably registers as Uber-Conservative and I agree with you.
The more I read about the people involved and their pasts, neither is truly of sterling character. However using violence to demonstrate that you don't like someone's opinion is just plain wrong. Disagreement doesn't mean that you can start punching a person, that is still considered assault.
Quote from: jeff37923;1051307Disagreement doesn't mean that you can start punching a person, that is still considered assault.
Battery, assuming at least one punch lands (and, in this case, it did).
So is this dude in jail yet? Or at least charged?
The most charitable interpretation I can think of for Gencon's non-response (disclaimer: not a lawyer) is that since this didn't take place in the convention area it's officially Not Gencon's Problem. They might be worried that if they make an official statement of some kind this could be taken to imply that they assume some sort of responsibility for the incident. Given the likelihood of law suits, I can see how they would very much want to avoid that.
Still, it's hard to believe that if the backgrounds of the attacker and victim were different, Gencon's reaction wouldn't have been different as well.
The asymmetry of the left debating whether someone's views are bad enough to merit being suckerpunched, while I never hear the right (even the "out there" figures like Cernovich or Milo) advocating such lawlessness towards their opponents, is rather glaring.
Its refreshing to see the number of people who are admonishing his actions in tweets and message boards.
Quote from: Diffan;1051293You mean the guy who said women have a biologically stronger interest in people rather than things, and tending to be more social, artistic, and prone to neuroticism?
Fuck outta here....
Your ranting is both childish and impotent. Sit down, hush and open your mind not your mouth. You just might learn something. Such as how wrong you are.
the funny thing is, Jeremy's youtube channel "The Quartering" has 118,000 subscribers, and a lot of gamers know who he is
The dude that attacked him probably hasn't seen 118 unique customers in the whole history of his business being opened. In addition to that, the guy can't put together a simple RPG in 5 years to fulfill a kickstarter.
Dude is a tatted loser who can't find legitimate employment. Meanwhile, Jeremy will probably get more subscribers due to the incident.
As is true of a lot of these Antifa/SJW types, they are people who are either unemployed, living with their parents, under-qualified and under-trained, and are such slobs that they can't even get a job interview. So instead, they start their own unprofitable hobby-businesses, and spend the day writing blogs or fantasizing about being a "feminist consultant", or something equivalent.
The only thing that makes these people somewhat dangerous is the fact that they can't be fired from jobs they don't have, and many already have criminal records. They are like violent teenagers.
Oddly enough, I am acquainted, barely acquainted with the victim and the attacker.
I have watched several videos by The Quartering and never saw any calls for violence or anything very radical. He is too involved in Magic the Gathering and videogames for me to watch him regularly but he seems like an ok guy.
I used to go to the alleged assailant's game store and café in New Haven and would probably still be going there if I were still in New Haven. I ran games there, played in other peoples' games and occasionally talked to him about scheduling and offered encouragement because I liked having his establishment in town. I liked the guy.
When I first heard that he was the accused, I was hoping he wasn't the one who did it but I wanted whomever did it to do prison time.
The hope that he wasn't the one who did it is fading but who knows. The other opinion stands.
Quote from: Diffan;1051285Yeah a company perma-banned a guy for a trivial online disagreement.....
And I don't think he should've been attacked. That's the problem with kicking a piece of shit, it ends up still on your shoe. Ignore it and move on.
He was banned for addressing the cosplay thot problem in the hobby. The hobby has a cosplay thot problem.
Quote from: Diffan;1051293You mean the guy who said women have a biologically stronger interest in people rather than things, and tending to be more social, artistic, and prone to neuroticism?
Fuck outta here....
And backed it up with sources. Women and men are different in many ways, they are similar in many ways as well. We should aknowledge those differences as well as allowing for individuals to make their own choices.
Quote from: Orphan81;1051342He was banned for addressing the cosplay thot problem in the hobby. The hobby has a cosplay thot problem.
Yep. Even if one disagrees with him, he didn't harass the cosplayer in question. He voiced wrongthink and that triggered the sexist "Protect the wammen!" reflex in the MTG community.
Quote from: Orphan81;1051342He was banned for addressing the cosplay thot problem in the hobby. The hobby has a cosplay thot problem.
The whole cosplay thing is a cynical attempt by women who are not gamers, or even into geek culture, to extract money and attention from desperate losers.
"Cosplay Deviants"? Hell, I went over to their booth at Gencon years ago and chatted with a couple of the girls. I asked one "who is your favorite doctor"? And she replied "you mean, like my doctor?" I asked another one about her costume, and she couldn't even tell me the character she was supposed to be. Some dude running the show dressed her up.
And these chicks who show up to the comic cons? Many are professional models hired by the organizers, or amateurs looking for the next gig. They don't like gamers, don't like geek culture, and don't even watch scifi on tv.
I go to conventions to game, not to see strippers. Jeremy was right: cosplay is lingerie (most of the time)
Quote from: Silas1066;1051347The whole cosplay thing is a cynical attempt by women who are not gamers, or even into geek culture, to extract money and attention from desperate losers.
"Cosplay Deviants"? Hell, I went over to their booth at Gencon years ago and chatted with a couple of the girls. I asked one "who is your favorite doctor"? And she replied "you mean, like my doctor?" I asked another one about her costume, and she couldn't even tell me the character she was supposed to be. Some dude running the show dressed her up.
And these chicks who show up to the comic cons? Many are professional models hired by the organizers, or amateurs looking for the next gig. They don't like gamers, don't like geek culture, and don't even watch scifi on tv.
I go to conventions to game, not to see strippers. Jeremy was right: cosplay is lingerie (most of the time)
You make it sound like that's a bad thing. Marketing usually equals attractive women in revealing clothing; it's not their fault.
Quote from: Silas1066;1051347The whole cosplay thing is a cynical attempt by women who are not gamers, or even into geek culture, to extract money and attention from desperate losers.
Probably too broad a brush there. The professionals might be more cynical about it but it's not like every cosplay girl at a con is porn star April O'Neil showing up dressed as April O'Neil in order to charge money for pictures or drum up business.
By all accounts the "victim" cosplayer was taking advantage of people. She raised enough money on Patreon
for her cosplay
to be able to go to Nursing school so she basically retired from cosplay to pursue a real job. The Quartering pointed this out and she circled the wagons against him. Because he had a couple of Pepe memes and photos and is highly critical of MtG tournament judges (he even outed a few as pedophiles) he was an easy target.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;1051294And all of that, Science has known for decades. If you'll let go off the reservation for a bit, it's the reason women are in retail manning the cashes and the men in retail are in the back doing inventory, despite the scientific fact that women have better organizational skills than men, but men have better computational skill. But because women are naturally more social, the big retail businesses like Macy's and now Walmart put them in the people jobs, because psychologically, both men and women find a woman serving them to be more soothing. So they put the men where no one can see them, in the back with the boxes.
Everything he said, everything he laid out is well known facts that no one on the political left wants to hear, because it means that women cannot be men. And I don't know about you, I like women being women! If I wanted men, I'd be gay. But I am not.
But because Feminism actually rules the West with an iron fist, with its Marxist/Post-Modernist bullshit that every one can do everything, there are no losers, no stupid people, all potential geniuses, we get extreme reactions like 'The Quartering' being assaulted by an idiot who thinks he has moral superiority.
Sorry Chief, but having an opinion is not a crime. This was a nothing burger that the Cosplayer that got upset at his opinion decided to sic public opinion on him. I'll be honest with you, I don't like The Quartering, I find him smarmy and self-righteous, but unlike most of the extreme leftist alt-lifestyle freaks, he actually provides PROOF, EVIDENCE, unless he states it as opinion.
And here's the facts to what happened. A man assaulted another at the Geneva Convention, which in American Law is a crime.
Your second paragraph is full of what the fuck. The sentences don't even follow from one another.
Feminism doesn't rule the West. White Feminism is pretty popular right now though. The doting, switch-beaten wife of White Supremacy which is seeing
just the most lovely comeback with the current POTUS. Seeing the faces of vile POS like Laura Southern et al. when they realize those "tradtional values" they're pushing for means they'd be pregnant and barefoot in the kitchen cures migraines, I swear. When
actual feminism rears its head, it usually in the form of "Coffee? No thanks, I'm good. There's a great place 'round the corner from the office, though!" comeback from a genuinely strong woman receiving all-too real sexist shit in the workplace.
The dude's legit when it comes to tracking down paedos in the CCG circuit. If he did that shit more, 'world would be a better place. But instead he rants impotently about whatever popular topic of discussion the far-right want to push
I get sick and tired of hearing "cultural marxist" -- it's so 2009. Bloody Jordan Peterson's made it vogue and put "post-modernist" on the map which is a subject that ninety fucking percent of the population isn't even educated on enough to tackle. That and "alt-right": this covert word sabotage has got to stop. "Globalist" is another actually and that one is way sinister.
Having an opinion
itself isn't a crime but if that opinion is a shitty one pushing racist bile (which collectively lends fire to violent actions against Black people etc...), yeah that is a fucking crime to spew it publically (and thank God in the UK you can be done for it!)
Quote from: S'mon;1051303OK: if you think saying that in a private memo is something a company SHOULD fire someone for, then...
Edit: It wasn't a company 'policy' BTW, it was an arbitrary decision by a Google bigwig whose feelings were apparently hurt.
Seems legit. You work for a
private company. They can (and will) do whatever the fuck they want and they sure as shit are entitled to when some asshat does something that by proxy of their employment could in some conceivable way connect back to the brand. Same shit happened with Jessica Price recently. People need to really,
really stop saying stupid shit and learn what world they live in.
Quote from: soltakss;1051304Back to the OP ...
In my opinion, it is never OK to assault someone, except in self defence.
There are a lot of people whose views I don't agree with, but that does not give me any right to assault them.
I am, of course, a wishy-washy liberal in the UK, which probably makes me quite lefty on the US scale, but I am pretty much against violence in real life, so am appalled that such a thing would happen at a games convention. You would think that games cons nowadays would have a policy regarding harrassment and assault. I take people's word that the alleged perpetrator has been defended, or not punished, by the games con organisors. Although "innocent until proven guilty" is a principle of the western world, it looks as though the alleged perpertrator should have at least been banned from the con. Trial by Internet seems to have already started, though, which is a shame.
If you've got shit to lose, sure. But there's far more people with nothing to lose (or what they'd consider a loss) out there who'll
correct you if you step wrong. It's a pretty pure way of dealing with shitheads, usually those who've been given multiple warnings to back off. Always satisfying to see justice done on a LiveLeak errm... leak.
I'm a centrist politically and from the UK (which actually still puts me in centrist territory in the US -- centrism is weird like that). You know, the kinda guy who's totally cool with private gun ownership, so long as gun buyers/sellers are fingerprinted, on a national database, have to do both gun safety and basic shooting courses and are subject to annual checks. Oh, and not allowing randos to buy stupid shit like phosphorous rounds or JHP or automatics (no problem with certified and regulated ranges allowing you to shoot off a surplus M60). Just sane practices and protocols, yo.
Why go through the courts when public shamming is ten times as effective and can be done overnight?
Quote from: jeff37923;1051307I'm a Heinlein worshipping Libertarian from the USA which probably registers as Uber-Conservative and I agree with you.
The more I read about the people involved and their pasts, neither is truly of sterling character. However using violence to demonstrate that you don't like someone's opinion is just plain wrong. Disagreement doesn't mean that you can start punching a person, that is still considered assault.
Talk shit, get hit. And now manz is well shook. Never forget you can be
touched and you'll be more considered in how you express opinions.
That said, the guy attacking him should have ice shards blown in his eyes for sucker-punching the dude. That's cowardly as shit to attack someone off the jump like that.
Quote from: The_Shadow;1051320The asymmetry of the left debating whether someone's views are bad enough to merit being suckerpunched, while I never hear the right (even the "out there" figures like Cernovich or Milo) advocating such lawlessness towards their opponents, is rather glaring.
Err, dude, you have hundreds of white men marching around with torches chanting "blood and soil" just last year alone. Not to mention the fact that until Trump came into office, White Supremacist groups and their affiliates were considered "domestic terrorist organizations" because, you know, McVeigh and the Unibomber and Marathon et al.
Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;1051323Your ranting is both childish and impotent. Sit down, hush and open your mind not your mouth. You just might learn something. Such as how wrong you are.
Nah, he's not wrong. Damore's your typical ivory-tower SV programmer who's unaware of how he's perceived by others, has lived his life in a nice bubble and genuinely believes what he said on the topic was original and compelling. Liana K had him on for a talk about the shitstorm and he just sounded like a shithead sleeved in the skin of an ostensibly competent coder/techhead.
Quote from: Silas1066;1051331the funny thing is, Jeremy's youtube channel "The Quartering" has 118,000 subscribers, and a lot of gamers know who he is
The dude that attacked him probably hasn't seen 118 unique customers in the whole history of his business being opened. In addition to that, the guy can't put together a simple RPG in 5 years to fulfill a kickstarter.
Dude is a tatted loser who can't find legitimate employment. Meanwhile, Jeremy will probably get more subscribers due to the incident.
As is true of a lot of these Antifa/SJW types, they are people who are either unemployed, living with their parents, under-qualified and under-trained, and are such slobs that they can't even get a job interview. So instead, they start their own unprofitable hobby-businesses, and spend the day writing blogs or fantasizing about being a "feminist consultant", or something equivalent.
The only thing that makes these people somewhat dangerous is the fact that they can't be fired from jobs they don't have, and many already have criminal records. They are like violent teenagers.
You're describing neo-nazis to a tee. 'Cept switch out consultant to stream-of-consciousness essays on the "racial ubermensch". I already knew that the Horseshoe Theory had weight to it but these last few years have really put it in perspective.
I know, right. All this has served to do is get more that shithead more exposure to the type of bitter and self-entitled internet warriors he represents.
It would be thoroughly entertaining to take these individuals and throw them in a dank, dirty pit and let em' sort it down there. I'm sure one could make MORE than few bob on that with a pay-per-view stream.
Quote from: Orphan81;1051342He was banned for addressing the cosplay thot problem in the hobby. The hobby has a cosplay thot problem.
You soundin' real incel-ly, brah.
Quote from: Brad;1051348You make it sound like that's a bad thing. Marketing usually equals attractive women in revealing clothing; it's not their fault.
Seems legit.
Quote from: Silas1066;1051347The whole cosplay thing is a cynical attempt by women who are not gamers, or even into geek culture, to extract money and attention from desperate losers.
"Cosplay Deviants"? Hell, I went over to their booth at Gencon years ago and chatted with a couple of the girls. I asked one "who is your favorite doctor"? And she replied "you mean, like my doctor?" I asked another one about her costume, and she couldn't even tell me the character she was supposed to be. Some dude running the show dressed her up.
And these chicks who show up to the comic cons? Many are professional models hired by the organizers, or amateurs looking for the next gig. They don't like gamers, don't like geek culture, and don't even watch scifi on tv.
I go to conventions to game, not to see strippers. Jeremy was right: cosplay is lingerie (most of the time)
Thank the lord for the term "incel". Really applies to all this mess you've written right here with just a dash of Alex Jones for that modern take on 90's misogyny. Classics such as "I don't get real-woman Sailor Moon boobs, therefore all women are succubi" and "I am the shield against the dark forces of sex appeal cum capitalism... and I
totally meant-but-not-meant that as a innuendo but I'm totally not sexually repressed, oooh!"
Quote from: PrometheanVigil;1051360You soundin' real incel-ly, brah.
Seems legit.
Thank the lord for the term "incel". Really applies to all this mess you've written right here with just a dash of Alex Jones for that modern take on 90's misogyny. Classics such as "I don't get real-woman Sailor Moon boobs, therefore all women are succubi" and "I am the shield against the dark forces of sex appeal cum capitalism... and I totally meant-but-not-meant that as a innuendo but I'm totally not sexually repressed, oooh!"
Why the focus on sexual insults, brah? Got a bit of that repression going on yourself? :D
@PrometheanVigil - That is the Voltron of Strawmen right there. 10/10 in your masterful destruction of it. You so good. So good.
Quote from: PrometheanVigil;1051360Seems legit.
I work for a marketing firm...you want to dispute my simple factual claim?
Quote from: PrometheanVigil;1051360Talk shit, get hit. And now manz is well shook. Never forget you can be touched and you'll be more considered in how you express opinions.
Brave words that I think you would take back when it is you getting
touched for having an opinion someone disagrees with.
Quote from: Diffan;1051275Actually he was banned for continued harassment of a cosplayer. Banned in every single capacity from all Magic: the Gathering events. The guy is a piece of shit.
That's awful that he would harrass a cosplayer. What did he do? Stalk her? Get handys at events? Send her sexually exicit emails or messages?
Quote from: Lurtch;1051385That's awful that he would harrass a cosplayer. What did he do? Stalk her? Get handys at events? Send her sexually exicit emails or messages?
He made a video questioning why a cosplayer who knew next to nothing about MtG was considered the star of MtG cosplay.
Quote from: The_Shadow;1051320The asymmetry of the left debating whether someone's views are bad enough to merit being suckerpunched, while I never hear the right (even the "out there" figures like Cernovich or Milo) advocating such lawlessness towards their opponents, is rather glaring.
It took barely any time at all searching for commentary on this incident yesterday to find t lot right wing people advocating that the correct response to this would have been to carry a concealed weapon and blow the attacker away - others throwing in racist and anti-semitic comments - even those this incident has nothing to do with race - and one commentator stating that the correct response to this is that "all liberals need to be put in the ground".
Quote from: jeff37923;1051386He made a video questioning why a cosplayer who knew next to nothing about MtG was considered the star of MtG cosplay.
That can't be right. Diffan said he was harassing a cosplayer. He must have been doing more than that.....
Quote from: TJS;1051387It took barely any time at all searching for commentary on this incident yesterday to find t lot right wing people advocating that the correct response to this would have been to carry a concealed weapon and blow the attacker away - others throwing in racist and anti-semitic comments - even those this incident has nothing to do with race - and one commentator stating that the correct response to this is that "all liberals need to be put in the ground".
Citation needed.
Quote from: Lurtch;1051389Citation needed.
Read any conservative website these days. Moderation is such shit that those sorts of things are depressingly commonplace. Right wing has gotten pretty snowflake/violent too. Proud Boy Ruffio was clearly looking to take some commie scalps but at least had the decency to wait for them to throw the first punch. But he was clearly there to fight.
Just catching up
So, it sounds like a useless wastrel attacked a douchy wannabe blogger, who didn't get hurt but lost several buttons from his $17 Target button down. Sounds like the end of days!!!!
And, naturally, the regulars on this board found a way to turn this into a lecture about some bullshit they read in a 19th century craniometry study about women's 'natural traits'.
Quote from: Lurtch;1051388That can't be right. Diffan said he was harassing a cosplayer. He must have been doing more than that.....
From what I have researched, that was it. No inappropriate touching, no doxxing, no stalking, no calling out at MtG tournaments, he just made a Youtube video. The cosplayer claimed that she was stricken, asked that her fans take this guy to task (while also asking for Patreon support), he was a MtG judge and got told to fuck off by WotC over this, he lost a few thousand dollars worth of online MtG loot and cards when WotC pulled the plug, has been harassed by MtG fanbois ever since, and has now been physically attacked for it. Oh, and the cosplayer? She got out of the MtG scene and the cosplaying scene so she could go to medical school to get her CNA, paid for by her Patreon.
Quote from: Lurtch;1051389Citation needed.
What is this an academic paper? I definitely didn't save any links. Find it yourself. Assume I'm lying. Assume I'm telling the truth.
As you choose.
Quote from: TJS;1051387It took barely any time at all searching for commentary on this incident yesterday to find t lot right wing people advocating that the correct response to this would have been to carry a concealed weapon and blow the attacker away - others throwing in racist and anti-semitic comments - even those this incident has nothing to do with race - and one commentator stating that the correct response to this is that "all liberals need to be put in the ground".
Quote from: KingCheops;1051391Read any conservative website these days. Moderation is such shit that those sorts of things are depressingly commonplace. Right wing has gotten pretty snowflake/violent too. Proud Boy Ruffio was clearly looking to take some commie scalps but at least had the decency to wait for them to throw the first punch. But he was clearly there to fight.
Then I'm sure that between the two of you, there can be links provided to support this claim.
Quote from: Larsdangly;1051392Just catching up
So, it sounds like a useless wastrel attacked a douchy wannabe blogger, who didn't get hurt but lost several buttons from his $17 Target button down. Sounds like the end of days!!!!
And, naturally, the regulars on this board found a way to turn this into a lecture about some bullshit they read in a 19th century craniometry study about women's 'natural traits'.
Damn those 19th century Asian neuroscientists!
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-08-03/fck-police-nyts-newest-hire-also-hates-cops-and-men-not-just-white-people (https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-08-03/fck-police-nyts-newest-hire-also-hates-cops-and-men-not-just-white-people)
No sign of violence in this one but not pretty:
https://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2018/08/03/new-york-times-bigot-sarah-jeong-repeatedly-trashed-the-new-york-times/ (https://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2018/08/03/new-york-times-bigot-sarah-jeong-repeatedly-trashed-the-new-york-times/)
And here's one of The Quartering's youtube video threads:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ydoev3gPt6g (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ydoev3gPt6g)
And this isn't even touching Twitter yet.
Quote from: PrometheanVigilTalk shit, get hit. And now manz is well shook. Never forget you can be touched and you'll be more considered in how you express opinions.
Yeah, he should never have been wearing a skirt that short.
Quote from: PrometheanVigil;1051360Your second paragraph is full of what the fuck. The sentences don't even follow from one another.
Feminism doesn't rule the West. White Feminism is pretty popular right now though.
Yes it does. Women have ALWAYS been the protected class. Especially the rich ones. Hell, every convenience we have ever invented, most of which are by men, have been to help women live stress free lives. Stoves, styles of clothing, cars, sexual crime laws, just a couple of things that aided women primarily.
But this is not the thread for this.
Quote from: PrometheanVigil;1051360Why go through the courts when public shamming is ten times as effective and can be done overnight?
Now, you're getting it. Attack a woman, get publicly tarred and feathered for it! Be SEEN as targeting a woman, same result. And woman aren't protected? Sure dood. That's what happened to The Quartering, he explained his problem with Cosplayers and she spun it into a harassment story and is getting free money from it.
Quote from: PrometheanVigil;1051360You soundin' real incel-ly, brah.
Thank the lord for the term "incel". Really applies to all this mess you've written right here with just a dash of Alex Jones for that modern take on 90's misogyny. Classics such as "I don't get real-woman Sailor Moon boobs, therefore all women are succubi" and "I am the shield against the dark forces of sex appeal cum capitalism... and I totally meant-but-not-meant that as a innuendo but I'm totally not sexually repressed, oooh!"
This blows my mind, do you even understand English? Sorry, that inappropriate, I honestly apologize. The better question is: Do you know what portmanteau of which two words it stands for?
I'll help you out:
Involuntary Celibate. And by the way, the word is gender neutral.
In case English is not your first language, the first word means 'Not given a choice'. It's not something people choose to be, like Feminist, or Alt-Right or SJW. It's a situation imposed on them by others, often due to things they can't control, like biology. No matter what the Post Modernists want you to believe.
The thing is, the Incel 'thing' was just a way to try and understand the monstrosity of a Toronto man who drove a Truck of Peace into bunch of pedestrians. And once the blame could be shifted onto the undesirables, the ones who have no chance with women of course, they stuck to the concept like glue.
Incels are no more a terrorist organization than us gamers are.
Again, this was a crime committed, let the police sort it out.
Quote from: Silas1066;1051347And these chicks who show up to the comic cons? Many are professional models hired by the organizers, or amateurs looking for the next gig. They don't like gamers, don't like geek culture, and don't even watch scifi on tv.
That isnt cosplay. That is an advertising representative. Theres a technical term for it but I cant recall exactly what it is. Mascot would be one close term. And this goes back at least to the 30s. Companies hire people to dress up as their characters and attends cons or events all the time.
Ed and Kishma loved to costume as Red and Eeon from the comic. Thats cosplay. Though in Eds case its reversed as he was his own character that got added into the comic. But it would be advertising if I hired them to dress up and promote my RPG based on the comic. Not cosplay.
Quote from: Omega;1051406That isnt cosplay. That is an advertising representative. Theres a technical term for it but I cant recall exactly what it is. Mascot would be one close term. And this goes back at least to the 30s. Companies hire people to dress up as their characters and attends cons or events all the time.
Booth babes? Is that the word?
Also, a lot of girls get into Cosplay to become booth babes as it can be very profitable, if you don't mind being grabbed by other women.
Seriously (and yes, slightly off topic) the most handsy people I've ever seen in any convention (and I've been to quite a few over the last two decades, save any of the big ones) are women cosplayers. They grab, grope and feel, both genders, often getting away with it. I know that a friend of a friend had issues with it, as he was cosplaying a video game (The Skyrim protagonist) character in a kilt and at least two women wanted to 'check' (and did) to the point where he had bruises in the unmentionables.
Ed and Kishma loved to costume as Red and eeon from the comic. Thats cosplay. Though in Eds case its reversed as he was his own character that got added into the comic. But it would be advertising if I hired them to dress up and promote my RPG based on the comic. Not cosplay.[/QUOTE]
Quote from: Christopher Brady;1051407Booth babes? Is that the word?
Also, a lot of girls get into Cosplay to become booth babes as it can be very profitable, if you don't mind being grabbed by other women.
Seriously (and yes, slightly off topic) the most handsy people I've ever seen in any convention (and I've been to quite a few over the last two decades, save any of the big ones) are women cosplayers. They grab, grope and feel, both genders, often getting away with it.
I know a few cosplayers and costumers who go to cons in the hopes of being hired as representatives for something, anything even. And hiring a good cosplayer is actually a sound business move as the person has shown they have the skills, look, and/or charisma to pull it off. They might see someone dressed up as Maleficent and hire her to be their Nox representative. Bonus if she can make her own costume.
It is similar to game designers putting out free games for contests. Some hope to attract a publisher either for their game or any game. And it works.
Trick is. Its rare.
As for this attack. Since it did happen technically off the GenCon premises the guy attacked will have to realize this and focus on the bar it happened in and press charges ASAP.
There is a lot of money being a somewhat attractive female dressing up as geek brand stuff and collecting money from thirsty nerds.
Quote from: Lurtch;1051410There is a lot of money being a somewhat attractive female dressing up as geek brand stuff and collecting money from thirsty nerds.
Maybe from patreon fans. But thats the same for any venue. Artists, game designers, writers, etc. Fans will pay to see more good work from someone. New games, new costumes, new art, etc. More reviews even.
Quote from: Tait Ransom;1051400Yeah, he should never have been wearing a skirt that short.
That part of his post was so ridiculous, I couldn't take it seriously.
Quote from: KingCheops;1051399https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-08-03/fck-police-nyts-newest-hire-also-hates-cops-and-men-not-just-white-people (https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-08-03/fck-police-nyts-newest-hire-also-hates-cops-and-men-not-just-white-people)
No sign of violence in this one but not pretty:
https://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2018/08/03/new-york-times-bigot-sarah-jeong-repeatedly-trashed-the-new-york-times/ (https://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2018/08/03/new-york-times-bigot-sarah-jeong-repeatedly-trashed-the-new-york-times/)
OK, those first two links are about the racist New York Times new hire so has very little relevance to this incident.
Quote from: KingCheops;1051399And here's one of The Quartering's youtube video threads:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ydoev3gPt6g (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ydoev3gPt6g)
And this isn't even touching Twitter yet.
I'm watching this video and still not seeing the violence threats from conservatives over opinions. Self-defense? Concealed carry? Oh, Hell yes, since he was the one who was attacked here and did not instigate the incident. Where are all these calls for "snowflake/violence"?
Quote from: PrometheanVigil;1051360*Snips a bunch of bullshit*"
Got any thoughts of your own?
The more I watch this video from the victim (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ydoev3gPt6g), the more weird this whole situation appears....
People are donating him hundreds of dollars because this happened and the assailant claims that he did this because he is a fan of Anita Sarkessian? WTF?
Quote from: mhensley;1051219TheQuartering guy was attacked at Gencon.
Meanwhile in the lifting world, a guy deadlifting was assaulted by another gym member (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJmVlt98FLA&feature=youtu.be&t=41s). Initially, management backed the assaulter, but they appearing to be turning around after a social media drama. The victim has gone to the police who will deal with things from here.
Sound familiar?
My life is basically barbells, babies and gaming. There are aggressive retards in all three, and organisations protect them. Such is life.
Quote from: mhensley;1051219TheQuartering guy was attacked at Gencon
He wasn't.
He and his alleged attacker were both in Indianapolis to
attend Gen Con, but that's something different, at least as far as Gen Con Management / ICC would be concerned.
Well, most people at Gencon do suffer from Trump Derangement Syndrome.
Quote from: Motorskills;1051424He and his alleged attacker were both in Indianapolis to attend Gen Con, but that's something different, at least as far as Gen Con Management / ICC would be concerned.
They are both at Gen Con today. Gen Con is allowing someone to walk around the vendor hall less then 24 hours after he said he wanted to murder an attendee.
All of this is a violation of Gen Con's harrassment policy which, BTW, never states that it only applies to events that happen on the convention grounds.
Promethean Vigil, I implore you to post your opinions far and wide every day and please try to make them more extreme.
Trump 2020 needs your volunteer hours!!
Quote from: soltakss;1051304I am, of course, a wishy-washy liberal in the UK, which probably makes me quite lefty on the US scale,
If you support freedom of expression and stand against political violence, there is nothing wishy-washy about you.
Unfortunately, these days you might NOT be called liberal either!
Quote from: Dimitrios;1051318The most charitable interpretation I can think of for Gencon's non-response (disclaimer: not a lawyer) is that since this didn't take place in the convention area it's officially Not Gencon's Problem.
I agree.
There is ZERO good for GenCon to make a peep about this.
Quote from: Silas1066;1051347I go to conventions to game, not to see strippers. Jeremy was right: cosplay is lingerie (most of the time)
Women cosplay at nightclubs! The only difference is they are cosplaying their favorite models in fashion media, not cartoon characters.
And non-geek girls love to dress up for Halloween...sexy nurse, sexy vampire, sexy nun, sexy zombie, etc.
So of course most cosplay would have a sex appeal component because the majority of popular women's fashion is devoted to sex appeal.
And if you look at many (but not all) anime female characters, they're dressed for sex appeal.
But nobody should touch anyone else without their permission. Touching cosplayers is creepy shit.
For the record, if someone with my identical views physically attacks the most rabid freakjob SJW in all existence, I want that someone to get arrested and punished and the SJW defended.
We MUST tolerate the existence of opposing opinions in the public sphere, regardless of how great our disagreement.
Quote from: Kyle Aaron;1051422Meanwhile in the lifting world, a guy deadlifting was assaulted by another gym member (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJmVlt98FLA&feature=youtu.be&t=41s). Initially, management backed the assaulter, but they appearing to be turning around after a social media drama. The victim has gone to the police who will deal with things from here.
Sound familiar?
The only common phrase seems to be "social media". I wonder...
The ride. It never fucking ends.
Quote from: Omega;1051253If that is the person they identified then add kickstarter fraud to his list of misdeeds. Game funded in 2013 and still nada.
While acknowledging the mote in my own eye, I hope this doesn't distract from the core issue.
Quote from: thedungeondelver;1051270at least Skarka didn't assault anyone and then try to disappear down the rabbit hole.
Nah, he just tries to doxx people he doesn't like and ends up targeting the wrong ones.
Though given his #Twitter I wouldn't put it past him.
Quote from: Diffan;1051275Actually he was banned for continued harassment of a cosplayer.
Yes, and yet such harassment was never verified.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1051277I am VERY concerned about the number of people who approve of the violence.
As am I, especially with how bad they are at identifying Nazis.
Quote from: S'mon;1051283This is what happens when the media say it's ok to punch an actual Nazi - soon the socjus scum are punching anyone who disagrees with them, and anyone who got punched must be a Nazi by definition.
I like your circular reasoning.
Quote from: Diffan;1051285Yeah a company perma-banned a guy for a trivial online disagreement.....
Yes.
Quote from: Diffan;1051293You mean the guy who said women have a biologically stronger interest in people rather than things, and tending to be more social, artistic, and prone to neuroticism?
Fuck outta here....
Not only are these trends true, they're even observable in people
transitioning.
Let me ask you though: What's the difference between a man and a woman?
Quote from: PrometheanVigil;1051360Seeing the faces of vile POS like Laura Southern et al.
Meh. Regardless of whatever else you think of her she's done an excellent job of exposing the religious bias regarding Islam at risk to her own safety.
Quote from: PrometheanVigil;1051360Bloody Jordan Peterson's made it vogue and put "post-modernist" on the map which is a subject that ninety fucking percent of the population isn't even educated on enough to tackle.
In other words, the people who don't understand Jordan Peterson are uneducated :p
Quote from: PrometheanVigil;1051360People need to really, really stop saying stupid shit and learn what world they live in.
You first.
Quote from: PrometheanVigil;1051360Why go through the courts when public shamming is ten times as effective and can be done overnight?
Ten times as effective at what? Actual justice?
Quote from: PrometheanVigil;1051360Talk shit, get hit. And now manz is well shook. Never forget you can be touched and you'll be more considered in how you express opinions.
What a great solution for those with a monopoly on physical force. I wonder if women have gotten the memo.
Quote from: PrometheanVigil;1051360you have hundreds of white men marching around with torches chanting "blood and soil" just last year alone.
I'm pretty sure MS13 has more members, and has killed more people.
Quote from: PrometheanVigil;1051360Not to mention the fact that until Trump came into office, White Supremacist groups and their affiliates were considered "domestic terrorist organizations"
They
still are.
Quote from: PrometheanVigil;1051360All this has served to do is get more that shithead more exposure to the type of bitter and self-entitled internet warriors he represents.
You mean the ones trying to remove pedos from positions of authority in the community and don't want people stalking their private social media spaces looking for wrongthink?
Quote from: PrometheanVigil;1051360Thank the lord for the term "incel". Really applies to all this mess you've written right here with just a dash of Alex Jones for that modern take on 90's misogyny.
By using #Incel as an insult, you imply that men who cannot get laid are less worthy of consideration, and that sleeping with women should be seen as a source of status.
So congratulations dumbass, you're a misogynist!
Quote from: TJS;1051387It took barely any time at all searching for commentary on this incident yesterday to find t lot right wing people advocating that the correct response to this would have been to carry a concealed weapon and blow the attacker away - others throwing in racist and anti-semitic comments - even those this incident has nothing to do with race - and one commentator stating that the correct response to this is that "all liberals need to be put in the ground".
Quote from: KingCheops;1051391Right wing has gotten pretty snowflake/violent too.
Bad people on both sides, and they keep encouraging each other.
At least they both agree that the middle is their enemy.
Quote from: Larsdangly;1051392So, it sounds like a useless wastrel attacked a douchy wannabe blogger, who didn't get hurt but lost several buttons from his $17 Target button down. Sounds like the end of days!!!!
Just be thankful wastrel didn't complement wannabe's boobs. Then shit would have really gotten real.
Quote from: jeff37923;1051421People are donating him hundreds of dollars because this happened and the assailant claims that he did this because he is a fan of Anita Sarkessian? WTF?
And he is at this point just as much a professional victim as Anita, if not moreso. Hell, he started selling T-Shirts about the assault within less than a day. So fast in fact that I'm seriously wondering where he found the time to commission and submit the art.
Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1051441And he is at this point just as much a professional victim as Anita, if not moreso. Hell, he started selling T-Shirts about the assault within less than a day. So fast in fact that I'm seriously wondering where he found the time to commission and submit the art.
Slight point here, you're right that he's milking it for all it's worth, but at the same time, he's actually producing something tangible. That's more than most Professional Victims have done since they started this rollercoaster.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;1051442Slight point here, you're right that he's milking it for all it's worth, but at the same time, he's actually producing something tangible. That's more than most Professional Victims have done since they started this rollercoaster.
Baah. Some women in China are producing the t-shirts for a pittance a day.
He's just branding it - that's not anything tangible.
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1051364Why the focus on sexual insults, brah? Got a bit of that repression going on yourself? :D
Hah, I wish. Would make things a lot simpler!
Quote from: tenbones;1051365@PrometheanVigil - That is the Voltron of Strawmen right there. 10/10 in your masterful destruction of it. You so good. So good.
I have no idea which part of my post you're responding to but hey, compliment's not necessary, just got a number of people on here saying stupid shit that they wouldn't dare say in real-life. Cheers though.
Quote from: Brad;1051366I work for a marketing firm...you want to dispute my simple factual claim?
Completely the opposite.
Quote from: jeff37923;1051369Brave words that I think you would take back when it is you getting touched for having an opinion someone disagrees with.
I have been attempted at, that shit ain't fun. But when you leave the dumb prick who tries you with a broken nose and you get away with a head cut, it works out. Especially when the idiot wants to make anti-black "jokes" about you right there in front of you because alcohol is a great courage booster.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;1051401Yes it does. Women have ALWAYS been the protected class. Especially the rich ones. Hell, every convenience we have ever invented, most of which are by men, have been to help women live stress free lives. Stoves, styles of clothing, cars, sexual crime laws, just a couple of things that aided women primarily.
But this is not the thread for this.
Now, you're getting it. Attack a woman, get publicly tarred and feathered for it! Be SEEN as targeting a woman, same result. And woman aren't protected? Sure dood. That's what happened to The Quartering, he explained his problem with Cosplayers and she spun it into a harassment story and is getting free money from it.
This blows my mind, do you even understand English? Sorry, that inappropriate, I honestly apologize. The better question is: Do you know what portmanteau of which two words it stands for?
I'll help you out:
Involuntary Celibate. And by the way, the word is gender neutral.
In case English is not your first language, the first word means 'Not given a choice'. It's not something people choose to be, like Feminist, or Alt-Right or SJW. It's a situation imposed on them by others, often due to things they can't control, like biology. No matter what the Post Modernists want you to believe.
The thing is, the Incel 'thing' was just a way to try and understand the monstrosity of a Toronto man who drove a Truck of Peace into bunch of pedestrians. And once the blame could be shifted onto the undesirables, the ones who have no chance with women of course, they stuck to the concept like glue.
Incels are no more a terrorist organization than us gamers are.
Again, this was a crime committed, let the police sort it out.
You read like the type o' person who ten years down the line will be like "It was different back then, I was in a wrong headspace, I can't believe I even said those kind of things". What you're saying is that wild.
If you wanna get dirty, you gotta learn to play dirty. Quartering played wrong. A lot of these guys get surprised when the shit blows up in their face. Like they don't see how they'll be perceived and the shit twisted. I just don't get how they can
not see it ahead of time...
Alliteration, Oxymoron, Simile, Double Entendre -- all lovely big terms encapsulating language concepts used in literature. Don't you love using them rather than saying "two words mashed together to make a next one". How 'bout Allusion? Maybe add in a layer of unintentional self-parody. Freshly baked, outta the oven comes "Incel"!
Dude, I've seen at more than one party , the fugliest-looking guys who've got the
most talent on around their arm and one in particular I'm thinking of was a goofy guy who fugliness could conceivably have been because of mild disability. But you know what -- he was seriously a friendly guy, he could hold a conversation, got on with everyone and he made his girl laugh so no wonder she was all over him!
Incels project their problems with confidence and self-esteem onto women and blame them for their inability to get laid. It's one of the classic behaviors used to justify sexually violating women because the perps feel they've been "denied". Via the power of the etherwebs, they've got together and spun some self-indulgent, bumper sticker philosophy around it with lots of flowery victim mentality crap and then spend their days emotionally circlejerking in that same community.
Where did I say incels are terrorists? Actually, on that subject, the same base mentality has been present in lot of fucked-up people over the years. Suicide bombers, school shooters, serial rapists/killers -- and before you can say "BUT THAT'S NOT TRUE OF ALLLLL", it's just one core symptom among others that leads to some of these fuckos doing the shit that they do. You don't need to self-identify as socio-sexually impotent to be a piece of shit -- 'plenty people been that long before the term was a thing.
Quote from: Lurtch;1051410There is a lot of money being a somewhat attractive female dressing up as geek brand stuff and collecting money from thirsty nerds.
Thirst trap is quenching.
Quote from: Omega;1051408I know a few cosplayers and costumers who go to cons in the hopes of being hired as representatives for something, anything even. And hiring a good cosplayer is actually a sound business move as the person has shown they have the skills, look, and/or charisma to pull it off. They might see someone dressed up as Maleficent and hire her to be their Nox representative. Bonus if she can make her own costume.
It is similar to game designers putting out free games for contests. Some hope to attract a publisher either for their game or any game. And it works.
Trick is. Its rare.
Quite right. Good for them if they can get it.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1051431Promethean Vigil, I implore you to post your opinions far and wide every day and please try to make them more extreme.
Trump 2020 needs your volunteer hours!!
But nobody should touch anyone else without their permission. Touching cosplayers is creepy shit.
Why thank you, I do try!
Hah, I can't wait for all the shady crap Trump's involved in to catch up with him. Man's been pulling out all the stops to get people off his case and that's just on the Russia collusion stuff! But he doesn't concern me, it's the wackos under him like Mike Pence and Betsy DeVos that people need to watch out for.
Agreed. Greasy, con-goer hands gropping all over you and trying to get a smooch in. Ewww, that's some nightmare fuel.
Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1051441Meh. Regardless of whatever else you think of her she's done an excellent job of exposing the religious bias regarding Islam at risk to her own safety.
In other words, the people who don't understand Jordan Peterson are uneducated :p
You first.
Ten times as effective at what? Actual justice?
What a great solution for those with a monopoly on physical force. I wonder if women have gotten the memo.
I'm pretty sure MS13 has more members, and has killed more people.
They still are.
You mean the ones trying to remove pedos from positions of authority in the community and don't want people stalking their private social media spaces looking for wrongthink?
By using #Incel as an insult, you imply that men who cannot get laid are less worthy of consideration, and that sleeping with women should be seen as a source of status.
So congratulations dumbass, you're a misogynist!
Nah, targeting the
culture of the islamic countries and holding them up would be far more effective 'cept that don't spin headlines. Easy target's the burqa thing: the qur'an doesn't care about stuff like that, it's the ultra-conservative culture of several of the arab states that caused that to be a thing.
On the contrary: JP is a proof-positive that you don't need an original idea, just a rock-solid execution when it comes to presenting it with a different coat of paint. Regardless of education, people be swept up by it if they can't
see that. The lion king spoken essay series was pleasant background listening, even if half the people in that lecture weren't even born when that movie was made.
If I was, I would.
Statement decomposition is such a bad play. It's funny, you're acting as though women don't check other women in the exact same way, almost like it would be inconceivable that women could ever get physical! Added to that your smarm-filled gun jumping below and matey, I'm concerned you may be a genuine misogynist AND misandrist.
Low-key begging the question -- how blase.
Nope, that status got removed from the FBI's files on those orgs. There was a whole expose site on it ages back. Quite frightening.
Ab-so-fucking-lute-ly! Did you not
get what this has been all about?
What is with you and decomposition plays? Aim higher. I said if he focused JUST on exposing paedos, everything would be swell. But he doesn't and so we get this crap.
If I used "incel" as an insult, sure, but instead I deconstructed that term because that's more useful and effective. And since you've now shown how quick you'll jump for a cheap hit, we can safely assume anything else you have to say on the subject isn't really gonna add anything.
Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1051441While acknowledging the mote in my own eye, I hope this doesn't distract from the core issue.
And he is at this point just as much a professional victim as Anita, if not moreso. Hell, he started selling T-Shirts about the assault within less than a day. So fast in fact that I'm seriously wondering where he found the time to commission and submit the art.
1: Unless you are in board gaming or had any run-ins with the guy back then, or were a backer then most likely hardly anyone was aware. But the game and his past behavior could be warning signs. but are so sporatic and obscure no one could have seen it coming unless he like announced it before going there.
2: Well hes been playing that card, and legitimately too, for a while now. Though to his credit so far havent seen him really play it up. Hes been more often just bringing it up as part of the bigger problem. So instead of playing the professional victem he just notes there is a problem and its happened to him as well. YMMV on how to read that of course.
As for the T-shirts. Wouldnt surprise me. Motivated people can crank something out surprisingly fast. So could be someone looked at the event and said screw this heres some art. boom.
Still weird but there you go. And it may get more eyes on the situation so WOTC cant just sweep it totally under the rug. Obviously the attack did not occur actually in the con. But WOTC has been acting as if it did instead of just stating it happened off site.
Though GenCon tends to sprawl massively and take up not just the convention site but nearby hotels in some cases. One year an event I signed up for was actually in a hotel a block or two from the convention proper. And this was a booked event in the Gencon event list so yeah if there was gaming going on at that bar then technically one could argue it was part f the con. I doubt anyone actually hosted an event there. Though back in the TSR days there was an event held at a bar so who knows.
Quote from: Omega;1051459Still weird but there you go. And it may get more eyes on the situation so WOTC cant just sweep it totally under the rug. Obviously the attack did not occur actually in the con. But WOTC has been acting as if it did instead of just stating it happened off site.
Does WotC own Gen Con? I thought that Gen Con was owned and operated by a private group headed by Peter Atkinson.
I've been watching this story unfold over the last few days...
I don't know anything about the Quatering's channel or who he is. Other than the fact I've watched his vid about being attacked. And heard rumors that he harassed a cosplayer... (and if he did, that's a dickish thing to do).
Regardless of that, the way I see it he was attacked for no valid reason. I mean, if I was to attack people just because I didn't like what they said it'd be a very long list. However, I have more then 3 brain cells so I don't waste my time (I also obey the law).
This prick, should be flung in jail for an unprovoked assault. Simple as... And Gencons lack of response is absolutely bizarre. Even if they didn't name names until the Police report actually came out. They should condemn any violence against its guests. Also, this little prick should not be allowed walk about at the event either. If that was any other form of alleged harassment you know they'd be kicked out even just as a precaution.
Has their been any response from the authorities yet??
I always find it predictable, that these pricks always pick the easy targets. Would he punch a 16 stone skinhead? I think not.
Quote from: The Exploited.;1051462I've been watching this story unfold over the last few days...
I don't know anything about the Quatering's channel or who he is. Other than the fact I've watched his vid about being attacked. And heard rumors that he harassed a cosplayer... (and if he did, that's a dickish thing to do).
He didn't harass a cosplayer. He
criticised a cosplayer. I don't agree with his criticism (I have no moral objection to babes using their looks + skills + labour to extract money from consenting nerds), but it wasn't harassment. She claimed it was, falsely AFAICT.
As moderately credible as I find the story, I'm still withholding judgement that even happened.
Massive pile of garbage attacks huge douchenozzle leading to an increase of hits on said douchenozzle's YouTube channel.
Pretty much sums up everything to do with this, time to move along.
Quote from: Doom;1051467As moderately credible as I find the story, I'm still withholding judgement that even happened.
Immediately after the attack, Jeremy posted of video describing the events and describing his attacker. At this point, Jeremy had NO idea who attacked him or why and had no hint that the attacker could ever be found.
Yet the very next day, people tracked down the attacker by this description, and not only did the attacker set his Twitter to private, but the attacker was also found to be involved in a twitter thread about Jeremy being at Gencon.
If he attack never happened, then Jeremy has god-level skills at predicting the future. He would have had to predict that someone who hated him AND knew he was at Gencon would be wearing a particularly odd shirt (a sleeveless white shirt with a rainbow on it).
Quote from: S'mon;1051464He didn't harass a cosplayer. He criticised a cosplayer. I don't agree with his criticism (I have no moral objection to babes using their looks + skills + labour to extract money from consenting nerds), but it wasn't harassment. She claimed it was, falsely AFAICT.
Yeah, I'd agree with you man. She can do whatever she wants to put herself through college or whatever.
Regardless, I really hope that little oxygen thief gets some jail time and then rigorously sued.
Quote from: PrometheanVigil;1051360Having an opinion itself isn't a crime but if that opinion is a shitty one pushing racist bile (which collectively lends fire to violent actions against Black people etc...), yeah that is a fucking crime to spew it publically (and thank God in the UK you can be done for it!)
Unless of course the racist bile is about white people especially white males, then it is perfectly ok and encouraged. #killwhitemen
Quote from: Silas1066;1051347The whole cosplay thing is a cynical attempt by women who are not gamers, or even into geek culture, to extract money and attention from desperate losers.
And I thought it was just about people who like to dress up as their favourite characters.
Who knew you had to be a geek to enjoy cosplay?
Quote from: soltakss;1051485And I thought it was just about people who like to dress up as their favourite characters.
Given the amount of effort involved in many of those costumes I wouldn't be surprised if many got both a psycho-sexual AND a pecuniary thrill from the activity. :)
Quote from: soltakss;1051485And I thought it was just about people who like to dress up as their favourite characters.
Who knew you had to be a geek to enjoy cosplay?
Nobody tell the Rocky Horror lot! Sssh!
Quote from: PrometheanVigil;1051360You soundin' real incel-ly, brah.
A spade is a spade, just as a thot is a thot. Just as pathetic internet tough guys like you, will always be pathetic internet tough guys.
Quote from: Motorskills;1051424He wasn't.
He and his alleged attacker were both in Indianapolis to attend Gen Con, but that's something different, at least as far as Gen Con Management / ICC would be concerned.
Do you think Gencon would be acting the same as they are if the roles were reversed?
Quote from: PrometheanVigil;1051444Hah, I wish. Would make things a lot simpler!
The first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem. We're here for you, man.
Quote from: Lurtch;1051495Do you think Gencon would be acting the same as they are if the roles were reversed?
Stepping in here to say yes, I am positive they would act the same. The only way they would have reacted differently would be had the attack actually happened in the convention center. Right now, it is an ALLEGED attack. There is absolutely no way Gencon can assume the one side from Jeremy Hambly to be accurate. Had somebody taken video of the attack, again, things might be different, but we have no proof that this occurred at this time, only allegations of an attack.
For all we know at this time this could be a hoax perpetrated by Hambly and backed up via a hoax conspiracy where others claim they witnessed the attack for Hambly's YouTube channel.
Quote from: soltakss;1051485And I thought it was just about people who like to dress up as their favourite characters.
Who knew you had to be a geek to enjoy cosplay?
The real cosplayers choose full costumes, not skimpy bikinis that are designed to attract the eye to their bodies. Not admittedly, there are a lot of male and female character costumes that are pretty much underwear, but you know the ones who are in it for the attention, they 'modify' their outfit to flatter their figure.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;1051504The real cosplayers choose full costumes, not skimpy bikinis that are designed to attract the eye to their bodies. Not admittedly, there are a lot of male and female character costumes that are pretty much underwear, but you know the ones who are in it for the attention, they 'modify' their outfit to flatter their figure.
Absolutely nothing wrong with that, in my opinion.
Quote from: soltakss;1051508Absolutely nothing wrong with that, in my opinion.
It's 'wrong' only in so much as they're effectively whoring themselves, not showing off any real skill at costume making.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;1051511It's 'wrong' only in so much as they're effectively whoring themselves, not showing off any real skill at costume making.
And that's wrong because?
Quote from: soltakss;1051513And that's wrong because?
I don't have any problem with ladies who want to throw on the skimpy cosplay outfits and dress up for the attention. But let's call a spade a spade as I mentioned earlier. Don't lie about it. Don't say you're only doing it for the "art". You're doing it, because it's furthering your career and self esteem. Nothing wrong with that, just be honest about it.
Sargon breaks down the whole thing in 6 minutes if you have the time. Specific example given at the 3:35 mark. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ale7CrTIloI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ale7CrTIloI)
Quote from: Christopher Brady;1051511It's 'wrong' only in so much as they're effectively whoring themselves, not showing off any real skill at costume making.
What? Who cares how she makes her money... Fair play to her for putting herself through college. It's not as if she's on a street corner dealing heroin or something.
There are a ton of thirsty geeks who will stab themselves in the eye socket if they thought a woman would smille at them for it.
There's nothing wrong with a woman trolling for sex-based attention. The problem is that if anyone points it out for what it is, those thirsty geeks will lose their motherfucking shit as their illusion is shattered.
So, maybe there is a problem with it, but it's not the sexy cosplay itself, but the reactions to it. Hell, I almost sound like a sex negative feminist. :P
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1051522those thirsty geeks will lose their motherfucking shit as their illusion is shattered.
Ha ha... Brilliant.
To be honest, I can't believe people would actually give some chic (or any cosplayer) cash through Patreon. They obviously have way too much free time and money.:D But if she can find dummies to hand over the cash, then you go girl!
Quote from: S'mon;1051486Given the amount of effort involved in many of those costumes I wouldn't be surprised if many got both a psycho-sexual AND a pecuniary thrill from the activity. :)
[ATTACH=CONFIG]2685[/ATTACH]
Thank you for the clarification! Here I 'd been thinking all these years that it was a cynical marketing ploy to sell our weird and inaccessible products to unsuspecting gamers. :)
Quote from: chirine ba kal;1051525[ATTACH=CONFIG]2685[/ATTACH]
Thank you for the clarification! Here I 'd been thinking all these years that it was a cynical marketing ploy to sell our weird and inaccessible products to unsuspecting gamers. :)
Sadly enough, those bare knees are probably serving someone's fetish.
Regarding "say shit, get hit." Does this assume that the righteous will have the strength of ten because its heart is pure? Because that true at all, except maybe on the internet. Lots of no-good bastards are quite handy in a fight. And "say shit, get hit" won't fly in court, either. So, it's just something people say.
Quote from: Doom;1051467As moderately credible as I find the story, I'm still withholding judgement that even happened.
If it didn't happen, don't you think the guy accused of making the attack would have said so by now? His Yelp is devastated. His Trip Advisor is devastated. His recommendations as a person who performs weddings has been trashed. He shut his Twitter down. Several national papers have now covered it. Naw man, if this simply didn't happen he'd have issued a statement to that effect by now.
Combined with 5 witnesses and a broken window and the bar also not issuing any denial that it happened...his own twitter inviting people to fight him at GenCon...he own Twitter being informed that this guy was going to be there...the victim clearly not knowing who it was that attacked him at first...and it's obvious it did happen.
Did it happen exactly the way the victim claims? We don't know. But, that fight happened on some level for sure.
Quote from: Xyxox;1051468Massive pile of garbage attacks huge douchenozzle leading to an increase of hits on said douchenozzle's YouTube channel.
Pretty much sums up everything to do with this, time to move along.
Hey Xyxox, nice to see you around man. Hope you're well.
Quote from: hedgehobbit;1051460Does WotC own Gen Con? I thought that Gen Con was owned and operated by a private group headed by Peter Atkinson.
Could be? Thought though that ended some years ago and it was WOTCs thing now? If its not a WOTC thing then replace my above WOTC statement with "GenCon or whomever." \
Quote from: Doom;1051467As moderately credible as I find the story, I'm still withholding judgement that even happened.
Unfortunately the attacker is/was apparently bragging about it online so yeah it did happen. Up till that point it was still a little nebulous as some werent exactly sure who the attacker was. Apparently he was an unknown to the victim till a witness IDed him. And even then it was a maybee thing.
Quote from: Orphan81;1051518I don't have any problem with ladies who want to throw on the skimpy cosplay outfits and dress up for the attention. But let's call a spade a spade as I mentioned earlier. Don't lie about it. Don't say you're only doing it for the "art". You're doing it, because it's furthering your career and self esteem. Nothing wrong with that, just be honest about it.
Sargon breaks down the whole thing in 6 minutes if you have the time. Specific example given at the 3:35 mark. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ale7CrTIloI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ale7CrTIloI)
Um. No. Alot of people dress up in a certain way for the hell of it. For fun. You know. Like how alot of people play RPGs. For fun. And they can and do drop alot of money into these things for the same reason. For fun. I've known alot of costumers that dropped upwards of 5k on their costume. Others can get those amazing looking costumes from about 20$ worth of material and some godlike crafting skills.
Some cosplayers just like a character and happen to have a build that fits. Some costumes are skimpy, some arent. Depends on the character. "Slut Shaming" the ones for daring to show some skin is just another form of SJWing and Prude Patrolling.
Back on topic apparently the editor of the Nerdist is backing the attacker and calling for more attacks? W-T-F???
Quote from: Omega;1051540Unfortunately the attacker is/was apparently bragging about it online so yeah it did happen. Up till that point it was still a little nebulous as some werent exactly sure who the attacker was. Apparently he was an unknown to the victim till a witness IDed him. And even then it was a maybee thing.
Thanks for the most relevant clarification. Now I have serious issues with GenCon's response.
Quote from: waltshumate;1051482Unless of course the racist bile is about white people especially white males, then it is perfectly ok and encouraged. #killwhitemen
Let me know when en masse lynching of white men because they're white is a thing...
Quote from: Orphan81;1051490A spade is a spade, just as a thot is a thot. Just as pathetic internet tough guys like you, will always be pathetic internet tough guys.
Quote from: WillInNewHaven;1051530Regarding "say shit, get hit." Does this assume that the righteous will have the strength of ten because its heart is pure? Because that true at all, except maybe on the internet. Lots of no-good bastards are quite handy in a fight. And "say shit, get hit" won't fly in court, either. So, it's just something people say.
I live what I say man. I've been in enough trouble and fights (some of them pretty bad) growing up that if I didn't make a change much earlier in my life, I probably never would have gotten into RPGs when I got into em' because I never would have gotten to uni. Some of the worst were when I stood up for others or against racism because I was stupid enough at the time to think it standing up for others who can't fight for themselves or against racist cunts is a good idea.
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1051500The first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem. We're here for you, man.
What's really crazy is the amount of people I've known over time who are on extreme ends of the spectrum: an actual celibate (a guy I knew who was becoming a catholic priest), bdsm enthusiasts, a watersports chick, a grindr enthusiast (he was really looking for a boyfriend, happy he found one!), even at my last workplace a guy who was abstaining from sex because he was doing a spritual clense or some shit.
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1051522Hell, I almost sound like a sex negative feminist. :P
Do you? That sounds pretty sex positive to me -- it's almost as though the problem isn't with women but with how men are taught to VIEW women perhaps?
Quote from: Omega;1051541Back on topic apparently the editor of the Nerdist is backing the attacker and calling for more attacks? W-T-F???
What. The. Actual. Fuck.
Quote from: PrometheanVigil;1051571Let me know when en masse lynching of white men because they're white is a thing...
This isn't the 1870s USA you know.
Quote from: S'mon;1051575This isn't the 1870s USA you know.
No. Its 2018 and these social INjustice warriors are trying to roll the clock back to at least the 1950s because they sure as hell are advocating and enforcing segregation, prejudice, inequality and everything else wed done a fairly good job of diminishing up till what 2012? SJWs just put a new mask on the old ills and called it progress.
Quote from: Omega;1051541Um. No. Alot of people dress up in a certain way for the hell of it. For fun. You know. Like how alot of people play RPGs. For fun. And they can and do drop alot of money into these things for the same reason. For fun. I've known alot of costumers that dropped upwards of 5k on their costume. Others can get those amazing looking costumes from about 20$ worth of material and some godlike crafting skills.
Some cosplayers just like a character and happen to have a build that fits. Some costumes are skimpy, some arent. Depends on the character. "Slut Shaming" the ones for daring to show some skin is just another form of SJWing and Prude Patrolling.
Back on topic apparently the editor of the Nerdist is backing the attacker and calling for more attacks? W-T-F???
Sure, and I have no problem with that. But if you're showing videos of yourself shaking your ass, or waving your tits around and you're clearly not wearing a Bra underneath... while asking for money on your Patreon... Well, are you really doing it for the "art"? Or are you doing it to entice teenage boys into giving you money?
QuoteI live what I say man. I've been in enough trouble and fights (some of them pretty bad) growing up that if I didn't make a change much earlier in my life, I probably never would have gotten into RPGs when I got into em' because I never would have gotten to uni. Some of the worst were when I stood up for others or against racism because I was stupid enough at the time to think it standing up for others who can't fight for themselves or against racist cunts is a good idea.
Look out gentleman, we have a bonafided badass over here!
Quote from: PrometheanVigil;1051444Hah, I can't wait for all the shady crap Trump's involved in to catch up with him.
Trump's usual 40% approval rating tells us his supporters don't give a fuck about his "shady crap".
Much how MoveOn.org was created because large numbers of Democrats didn't care about Slick Willy's "shady crap" either.
Quote from: Omega;1051541Back on topic apparently the editor of the Nerdist is backing the attacker and calling for more attacks? W-T-F???
Links!!
Quote from: PrometheanVigil;1051571Let me know when en masse lynching of white men because they're white is a thing...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_bDc7FfItk
QuoteDo you? That sounds pretty sex positive to me -- it's almost as though the problem isn't with women but with how men are taught to VIEW women perhaps?
In the sense that men are all hormone driven rape beasts, and women should revert to modest behaviors, lest they be assaulted. I don't think this, but to extrapolate it to it's extreme conclusion.
Quote from: PrometheanVigil;1051571Let me know when en masse lynching of white men because they're white is a thing...
I cannot let this go unanswered:
https://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/world-economy/south-africa-farm-attacks-brutal-crimes-landowners-face/news-story/dfaabafca743056b6d6656ea1fff49eb
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.za/2018/06/12/malema-we-have-not-called-for-the-killing-of-white-people-at-least-for-now_a_23456601/
Will you now admit that it is a thing, or will you make up some feeble excuses?
Quote from: Spinachcat;1051585Links!!
http://boundingintocomics.com/2018/08/03/nerdist-producer-promotes-and-encourages-violence-in-wake-of-attack-on-jeremy-hambly/ (http://boundingintocomics.com/2018/08/03/nerdist-producer-promotes-and-encourages-violence-in-wake-of-attack-on-jeremy-hambly/)
QuoteBen McShane
I'm just relieved someone punched the Nazi
Ben McShane
Hi fascists and fascist sympathizers! Have you found me because I'm glad a Nazi got punched?
1) I don't owe you engagement.
2) Fascism,-gate misogyny, and racism pose an existential threat to my family, community, and country.
3) Public assault on Nazis is good and effective.
And more. Truely WTF.
Wazzup in this thread?
Politics?
*yawn*
You guys really need to get a game group. So does the loser assaulting people. Not, um, my group though thanks. Maybe that person could play a storygame like Amber or something.
Quote from: Kyle Aaron;1051597Wazzup in this thread?
Politics?
*yawn*
You guys really need to get a game group. So does the loser assaulting people. Not, um, my group though thanks. Maybe that person could play a storygame like Amber or something.
I dont think assaulting someone is "politics."
Quote from: Omega;1051540Unfortunately the attacker is/was apparently bragging about it online so yeah it did happen. Up till that point it was still a little nebulous as some werent exactly sure who the attacker was. Apparently he was an unknown to the victim till a witness IDed him. And even then it was a maybee thing.
Link?
Quote from: Omega;1051600I dont think assaulting someone is "politics."
It's not, but much of the drivel posted subsequently is. Including yours.
I'm running across several gamers who really want to brush this incident under the rug and pretend it never happened. Their outlook being that if it isn't acknowledged, then it doesn't exist, and they can go on back to being unconscious of this socjus problem in nerd culture.
From PrometheanVigil: "I live what I say man. I've been in enough trouble and fights (some of them pretty bad) growing up that if I didn't make a change much earlier in my life, I probably never would have gotten into RPGs when I got into em' because I never would have gotten to uni. Some of the worst were when I stood up for others or against racism because I was stupid enough at the time to think it standing up for others who can't fight for themselves or against racist cunts is a good idea."
"Growing up" is a key term here. Kids get in fights but grownups get in much more trouble. As for the rest, I was a kid from small-town Alabama who went on freedom marches in the Sixties. We weren't supposed to even hit back.. And I think that did more for racial tolerance than all of your white-knight virtue signalling. And there is _nothing_ that I can find out about The Quartering that makes him a "racist cunt."
Quote from: jeff37923;1051607I'm running across several gamers who really want to brush this incident under the rug and pretend it never happened. Their outlook being that if it isn't acknowledged, then it doesn't exist, and they can go on back to being unconscious of this socjus problem in nerd culture.
Are you really surprised I'm not. You can damn well bet if it happened to them it would be the end of the world and they would never shut up about it. Predictably no mention of it over at the TBP. Then again the victim was white, CIS and privileged so who cares right.
Apologies for the earlier off-topic post. I generalized when a question was raised about this specifically. That was my lack of reading comprehension.
In regards to the cosplay thing people are talking past each other in their definitions of cosplay. I think there are miles of differences between people who cosplay as fans or people who cosplay semi-professionally or professionally (whether they are fans or not). These latter ones (and here in Vancouver we had a guy one year who was wearing nothing but a fur loincloth and deer antlers plus loads of oily muscles) are about the same as the hottie servers working at whatever your local trendy young folks food chain employs or the models at car shows. They don't deserve to be sexually molested (verbal or physical) but they are taking that chance by trying to use their sexuality in order to make money.
I'm both excited and scared to eventually cosplay with my girls. On the one hand, "if you got it flaunt it", but on the other hand it's a scary world out there.
The "victim" cosplayer that Jeremy "attacked" had been complaining about being a sex object for nerds despite only choosing to dress up as the sexy MtG characters (even in cases where a non-sexy SJW alternative was available). She then also took money on Patreon that was meant to fund her cosplay and instead spent it on Nursing School.
Finally, for those defending GenCon with the whole "It happened off GenCon grounds" how do you feel about a woman getting assaulted (let's just say physically for comparison sake) at an after party at a nightclub and then allowing the identified abuser to run a booth the next day at the convention?
Quote from: Orphan81;1051584Look out gentleman, we have a bonafided badass over here!
He forgot the part where everyone slowly started to applaud him after he made his stand.
https://www.indystar.com/story/news/crime/2018/08/03/gen-con-indianapolis-gaming-commentator-conservative-views-punched/896816002/
Shortly before 8 p.m. Thursday, hours after the video was posted, Indianapolis Metropolitan Police Department officers responded to a "delayed assault" by meeting Hambly at a Downtown hotel.
A representative of Gen Con said organizers of the gaming convention have received no requests for assistance by IMPD. "As always, we cooperate with local law enforcement," Gen Con said in a written statement provided to IndyStar. "For more than 50 years, Gen Con has provided a safe, welcoming environment for attendees."
The four-day convention opened Thursday.
Hambly has not responded to interview requests by IndyStar.
According to the Indianapolis Metropolitan Police Department report, Hambly was on the patio at the Tin Roof, 36 S. Pennsylvania St., when a stranger asked, "Hey, are you Jeremy?"
"When Hambly responded yes, the suspect struck the victim in the head several times with a fist," according to the police report.
Hambly ran inside the bar. The suspect struck and broke one of the bar's windows then fled, the police report said.
Hambly suffered scrapes and bruises but no serious injuries.
In his video, Hambly says that a police officer took an initial statement.
IMPD told IndyStar Thursday afternoon they were unfamiliar with Hambly making a report at that time.
Hambly also said in his video that the bar was uncooperative and would not provide surveillance footage of the attack. A Tin Roof spokesman told IndyStar that there are no surveillance cameras outside the bar. The spokesman declined to comment on the incident itself.
[Note: Hambly has since said the first officer failed to file the report, and he had to go back to the station another day and get them to file the report.]
I still have to reserve judgement on what really happened as again, all we have is Hambly's side of the story, no video, no response from the alleged attacker, and eyewitness accounts in a video on the own alleged victim's youtube channel. The alleged victim has a beef with WotC and the gaming community in general after he was banned for life from MtG for harrassment of cosplayers, something that I have seen documented. He's a super dick and I would not put faking this past him given his past actions.
So, until I see evidence that an attack actually happened in the way Hambly describes it, I'll wait to see how it plays out in the judicial system because if it did happen as Hambly describes it, there should be some form of prosecution, though jail time would be incredibly unlikely.
Quote from: chirine ba kal;1051525[ATTACH=CONFIG]2685[/ATTACH]
Thank you for the clarification! Here I 'd been thinking all these years that it was a cynical marketing ploy to sell our weird and inaccessible products to unsuspecting gamers. :)
Quote from: HappyDaze;1051527Sadly enough, those bare knees are probably serving someone's fetish.
Walking down the street is probably some people's fetish by virtue of Rule 34! At some point, you can't care whether someone might be excited due to what you're doing, and just start doing what you like:).
OK, not related to the accident, but it needed to be pointed out;).
Also, I'm mostly an European centrist, with some left leanings - which in the USA would put me both to the left of Hilary and to the right of Trump, somehow - and my stand on the supposed incident is:
There are words that can get you punched. "Don't insult people's mothers,sisters and girlfriends" is a rule we all learn as we grow up, for example;).
It's just wrong when someone includes political statements in those words.
That said, I'm not sure whether it actually happened, whether it happened the way the supposed victim is describing it, and what was the motivation of the supposed attacker. If it was an attack due to someone's views, it's wrong, period. But there's a reason why courts are asking for both sides' points of view.
So I'd extend the supposed attacker the same benefit of the doubt that everyone should be getting, and wait for judicial process to confirm that yes, the attack has happened, and why. I'm glad the supposed victim is pushing charges, because that way, we're going to know for sure, unlike in so many cases:D!
Quote from: sureshot;1051611Are you really surprised I'm not. You can damn well bet if it happened to them it would be the end of the world and they would never shut up about it. Predictably no mention of it over at the TBP. Then again the victim was white, CIS and privileged so who cares right.
I'm not terribly surprised, but the constant stream of reasoning, "Well, I don't like the guy, so it is OK that he was physically attacked" is bewildering. People keep saying that he harassed a cosplayer as justification, but all this guy did was make a YouTube video that was critical of the cosplayer's motives for cosplaying - there was no physical sexual harassment.
EDIT: The incident has been mentioned on TBP and resulted in a banning. (https://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?832327-Banned-MtG-YouTuber-claims-he-was-punched-in-Indianapolis&p=22043718#post22043718)
Quote from: jeff37923;1051623I'm not terribly surprised, but the constant stream of reasoning, "Well, I don't like the guy, so it is OK that he was physically attacked" is bewildering. People keep saying that he harassed a cosplayer as justification, but all this guy did was make a YouTube video that was critical of the cosplayer's motives for cosplaying - there was no physical sexual harassment.
EDIT: The incident has been mentioned on TBP and resulted in a banning. (https://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?832327-Banned-MtG-YouTuber-claims-he-was-punched-in-Indianapolis&p=22043718#post22043718)
Sounds like most of the forum aren't buying Hambly's story either.
Edited to add: AAAaaaaand the alleged victim has now pulled all videos about the alleged attack from all of his channels, so until I see something to the contrary, I consider this a hoax gone bad in order to try and get retribution against somebody he doesn't like.
Whatever happened to "Believe the victim"?
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1051628Whatever happened to "Believe the victim"?
When the victim starts raising money on the alleged attack, with "gear" for sale and a Gofundme almost immediately, it's tough to believe them without some corroborating evidence.
Quote from: Xyxox;1051630When the victim starts raising money on the alleged attack, with "gear" for sale and a Gofundme almost immediately, it's tough to believe them without some corroborating evidence.
Do tell.
Quote from: Xyxox;1051630When the victim starts raising money on the alleged attack, with "gear" for sale and a Gofundme almost immediately, it's tough to believe them without some corroborating evidence.
When you put it that way, it sounds exactly like what Christine Sprankle did.....
Quote from: jeff37923;1051632When you put it that way, it sounds exactly like what Christine Sprankle did.....
She's a woman. It's different. :D
Quote from: Kyle Aaron;1051597Wazzup in this thread?
Politics?
*yawn*
You guys really need to get a game group. So does the loser assaulting people. Not, um, my group though thanks. Maybe that person could play a storygame like Amber or something.
I've got
. X-Wing Miniatures
. Starfinder society
. Pathfinder group
. 2nd edition "group" (solo player, my brother)
Is that enough for me to post in the thread? :)
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1051633She's a woman. It's different. :D
Correction if she was a woman or trans-gendered or non-white it's different.
Quote from: jeff37923;1051632When you put it that way, it sounds exactly like what Christine Sprankle did.....
Whataboutism doesn't come into play here.
Edited to add that there was also corroborating evidence for Sprankle's allegations of harassment in the form of Hambly videos taken down by YouTube for violating their harassment policy.
Quote from: Xyxox;1051636Whataboutism doesn't come into play here.
"Whataboutism" is no good defense of double standards and tribalism.
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1051637"Whataboutism" is no good defense of double standards and tribalism.
Present the evidence that Hambly's allegations are true.
I will say that there is a GREAT GOOD coming out of this because all of Hambly's Gamergater followers are vowing to boycott GenCon forever, and that is a GOOD THING!
Quote from: Xyxox;1051639Present the evidence that Hambly's allegations are true.
I'm not claiming Hambly's allegations are true. We will see as more evidence comes in or not.
I pointed out the double standard of "believing the victim" (a common mantra that seems to apply mainly to white women and some minority women) and dismissing Hambly's claims.
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1051640I'm not claiming Hambly's allegations are true. We will see as more evidence comes in or not.
I pointed out the double standard of "believing the victim" (a common mantra that seems to apply mainly to white women and some minority women) and dismissing Hambly's claims.
I deny such a double standard exists. Believe it if you like.
Quote from: Xyxox;1051636Whataboutism doesn't come into play here.
Edited to add that there was also corroborating evidence for Sprankle's allegations of harassment in the form of Hambly videos taken down by YouTube for violating their harassment policy.
You're a liar. That isn't why the videos were taken down. It was a copyright claim and not harrasment you lying piece of shit.
Quote from: Xyxox;1051641I deny such a double standard exists. Believe it if you like.
That's because you're a disingenuous piece of filth.
Quote from: Lurtch;1051643That's because you're a disingenuous piece of filth.
Present the evidence that Hambly was attacked. I'm waiting, but don't go looking for Hambly's videos about the alleged attack because the vile GG scammer has already taken them down.
Quote from: Xyxox;1051639I will say that there is a GREAT GOOD coming out of this because all of Hambly's Gamergater followers are vowing to boycott GenCon forever, and that is a GOOD THING!
"Everyone I disagree with is a Nazi and it is OK to punch Nazis!"
You had only 3 posts here over a period of 8 years before this thread. Yet this calls you to action?
Quote from: jeff37923;1051654"Everyone I disagree with is a Nazi and it is OK to punch Nazis!"
You had only 3 posts here over a period of 8 years before this thread. Yet this calls you to action?
And it took you only one post to put words in my mouth that I never said.
I saw this guy's videos on Youtube. He's been a trouble magnet. Egging on the people he is opposed to at every opportunity. This guy is in no way an innocent. He's a provocateur.
That in no way justifies the attack on him. His attacker is as bad as he is. They both deserve to be banned for life from GenCon.
Quote from: KingCheops;1051612Finally, for those defending GenCon with the whole "It happened off GenCon grounds" how do you feel about a woman getting assaulted (let's just say physically for comparison sake) at an after party at a nightclub and then allowing the identified abuser to run a booth the next day at the convention?
On this board, where it's widely accepted that more than half of all assault reports by women are made up? I'd expect even more support for GenCon. I'm kinda impressed that this forum has kept as open a mind about the whole thing as it has, since social justice warriors are even more hated here than women.
I miss the days when this sort of political thread only turned up in the Pundit's forum. There were a few times in the past where almost all of the posting at theRPGsite was in the political threads there; moving them into the main forum has not been an improvement. And I think this thread is somewhat off-topic for this forum; GenCon's involvement and the industry significance of the people actually involved are all so minor that it hardly qualifies as "industry events or gossip".
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1051656I saw this guy's videos on Youtube. He's been a trouble magnet. Egging on the people he is opposed to at every opportunity. This guy is in no way an innocent. He's a provocateur.
That in no way justifies the attack on him. His attacker is as bad as he is. They both deserve to be banned for life from GenCon.
We have yet to establish there was an actual attack. If established, I would agree with you. If not established, only Hambly should be banned.
Quote from: Xyxox;1051655And it took you only one post to put words in my mouth that I never said.
So this is what? Your denial of saying that it was OK for Hambly to be physically attacked because you don't like him? Explain how that attitude of yours is different from "Everyone I disagree with is a Nazi and it is OK to punch Nazis!"
Quote from: jeff37923;1051659So this is what? Your denial of saying that it was OK for Hambly to be physically attacked because you don't like him? Explain how that attitude of yours is different from "Everyone I disagree with is a Nazi and it is OK to punch Nazis!"
I have never once said that Hambly deserved to be attacked. I have only questioned whether the moron was attacked as he alleges.
Quote from: Xyxox;1051604Link?
I wish. He has locked off his comments. But so far is not denying he did it either. Which is rather telling.
Quote from: S'mon;1051575This isn't the 1870s USA you know.
Dude, lynchings are happening even now. Hang on, here:
https://edition.cnn.com/2017/03/03/us/washington-teen-ben-keita-hanging/index.html
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/fbi-investigates-willie-andrew-jones-jr-hanging-black-man-tree-mississippi/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/09/13/8-year-old-boy-was-hung-from-rope-by-n-h-teenagers-because-of-his-race-family-says/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.b51475fe56a8
(that last one could have been me when I was a kid...)
This is just on random google search, it's still happening year-on-year...
Quote from: Spinachcat;1051585Trump's usual 40% approval rating tells us his supporters don't give a fuck about his "shady crap".
Much how MoveOn.org was created because large numbers of Democrats didn't care about Slick Willy's "shady crap" either.
Why would his supporters want him to pay for his bullshit in the first place? Come on man, use your loaf...
Actually, on that note, it's worse than that because they are the base that are actively being fucked by his policies...
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1051592https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_bDc7FfItk
Watch Hidden Colors. I recommend #4, then #3. Get educated on the reality of how the modern anglosphere was created.
Quote from: Claudius;1051593I cannot let this go unanswered:
https://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/world-economy/south-africa-farm-attacks-brutal-crimes-landowners-face/news-story/dfaabafca743056b6d6656ea1fff49eb
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.za/2018/06/12/malema-we-have-not-called-for-the-killing-of-white-people-at-least-for-now_a_23456601/
Will you now admit that it is a thing, or will you make up some feeble excuses?
Here, get educated: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/24/business/south-africa-economy-apartheid.html
South Africa is still controlled by wealthy, white landowners and dynasties who maintain the power structure present during apartheid. It's great that black south africans aren't being made to dance naked in prison yards, beaten to within an inch of their lives for using the "wrong" facilities and thrown in 8x4" cells if they dare to say "no" but that's, like, less than the basics.
In the modern day, outside of Cape Town, SA's a shithole in general and because only the wealthy and connected whites truly benefited from apartheid, now you have a first generation of whites who live in a similar level of poverty that blacks suffered in for multiple generations because the racist power structure considered them ultimately expendable. And yet, many of this same generation would say "yeah, we deserve it" because now they have experienced a
fraction of the horror of the end results of racist power structures. Whites betray their own kind so quickly and yet there are so many lower down the socio-economic ladder that so passionately believe in white supremacy that they blind themselves to it. It's really fucking sad but nobody should feel bad because whites brought it on themselves -- they always do.
What's crazy (though not surprising) is how many white posters here have been taken in by the Great White Lie. Like dudes, unless you're at least comfortably upper middle class (and that would mean your annual household income is between $150/200k to $500k), you're not special bro. It's the big reason MLK got taken out: he was starting to bring lower-class whites into the movement in a big way which would have decimated the entire poli-economic structure of the United States that, from its very inception, was fundamentally built up from the blood and labor of stolen west africans.
Quote from: WillInNewHaven;1051609From PrometheanVigil: "I live what I say man. I've been in enough trouble and fights (some of them pretty bad) growing up that if I didn't make a change much earlier in my life, I probably never would have gotten into RPGs when I got into em' because I never would have gotten to uni. Some of the worst were when I stood up for others or against racism because I was stupid enough at the time to think it standing up for others who can't fight for themselves or against racist cunts is a good idea."
"Growing up" is a key term here. Kids get in fights but grownups get in much more trouble. As for the rest, I was a kid from small-town Alabama who went on freedom marches in the Sixties. We weren't supposed to even hit back.. And I think that did more for racial tolerance than all of your white-knight virtue signalling. And there is _nothing_ that I can find out about The Quartering that makes him a "racist cunt."
When they're pulling knives on each other for stupid shit like mobile phones ('cause that's how we interacted with each other circa mid-00s London) or because you won't let them call your darker-skinned friend a slur, yeah, no, they're getting time in a young offenders lockup. I wish I could say I stopped fighting when I hit uni... 'cept gradually its turned from physical to more social, tactical-like. Because, you know, I had (and continue to have) shit to lose.
I would like to think that your march did do something but ultimately, Alabama is still one of the worst states (some would argue
the worst) for Black people to live and work. And of course you were told not to hit back: it kills any sympathy those marches were meant to drum up in the media. And I wish I could be virtue signalling, it seems like a pretty nice life -- bit fake though -- to lead these days. But I'm just that kinda of guy who actually means what he says and deconstructs bullshit where it rears its ugly head -- maybe I should turncoat?
Where did I call Hambly a racist? I'm really not understanding these repeated plays of statement decomposition + fabrication from multiple posters. It's just bad faith. If your position doesn't stand on its own, then deal with it and move on.
Quote from: Omega;1051661I wish. He has locked off his comments. But so far is not denying he did it either. Which is rather telling.
He is under no obligation to deny anything. In fact, it is impossible to prove a negative. Not to mention the fact that turning off his social media in the wake of these allegations and shut up would be what any attorney would tell a potential plaintiff in a defamation suit.
Hambly alleges the attack. Hambly is under the burden of proof.
Quote from: Xyxox;1051645Present the evidence that Hambly was attacked. I'm waiting, but don't go looking for Hambly's videos about the alleged attack because the vile GG scammer has already taken them down.
He has a witness account on his Twitter page.
Careful everyone this poster is a snitch from rpg.net. One of my buddies had account perma-banned today and suddenly this guy starts posting here. I don't believe in coincidences. I would not be surprised if he is working with the mods over at TBP to get more people banned from there.
Quote from: sureshot;1051666Careful everyone this poster is a snitch from rpg.net. One of my buddies had account perma-banned today and suddenly this guy starts posting here. I don't believe in coincidences. I would not be surprised if he is working with the mods over at TBP to get more people banned from there.
OFFS!
"It never happened... and it's great it happened!"
Permit me to Godwin and point out that this is what Holocaust deniers say.
BTW one way you can tell a hoaxer is by their refusal to go to the police or press charges; they want their claims kept well away from the actual police & judicial system, since there are potential serious consequences for lying. This guy's efforts to get the police to pay attention strongly indicate not-hoaxer to me.
Quote from: Lurtch;1051665He has a witness account on his Twitter page.
With no way to corroborate an actual report was filed with the police.
Quote from: S'mon;1051668"It never happened... and it's great it happened!"
Permit me to Godwin and point out that this is what Holocaust deniers say.
Well it's a good thing I never said that, isn't it.
Quote from: S'mon;1051668BTW one way you can tell a hoaxer is by their refusal to go to the police or press charges; they want their claims kept well away from the actual police & judicial system, since there are potential serious consequences for lying. This guy's efforts to get the police to pay attention strongly indicate not-hoaxer to me.
Tell that to the Backwards B Girl from 2008. Half the reason hoaxers are caught are because of their own stupidity, and Hambly doesn't impress me as being very intelligent. Also, there was NO police report until 8:00 PM the day AFTER the incident, contrary to claims made by Hambly.
Quote from: sureshot;1051666Careful everyone this poster is a snitch from rpg.net. One of my buddies had account perma-banned today and suddenly this guy starts posting here. I don't believe in coincidences. I would not be surprised if he is working with the mods over at TBP to get more people banned from there.
Even if not a snitch, this guy is a grade-A troll for spreading fear, uncertainty, and doubt about this incident. I especially like the way he will only accept certain specific kinds of evidence and everything else is questionable. Nice touch that.
Quote from: jeff37923;1051672Even if not a snitch, this guy is a grade-A troll for spreading fear, uncertainty, and doubt about this incident. I especially like the way he will only accept certain specific kinds of evidence and everything else is questionable. Nice touch that.
Allegations are not evidence. Video would be evidence. Multiple eyewitnesses swearing under oath would be evidence. Until then, everything Hambly has done since the alleged event (no police report for than 18 hours, taking down all videos he originally posted about the event) weakens the veracity of the allegations until such a time as court proceedings ensue.
Quote from: Xyxox;1051670Well it's a good thing I never said that, isn't it.
I wasn't addressing you specifically.
Quote from: S'mon;1051680I wasn't addressing you specifically.
Ah, when you quoted me and stated that It seemed that way.
Quote from: Xyxox;1051674Allegations are not evidence. Video would be evidence. Multiple eyewitnesses swearing under oath would be evidence. Until then, everything Hambly has done since the alleged event (no police report for than 18 hours, taking down all videos he originally posted about the event) weakens the veracity of the allegations until such a time as court proceedings ensue.
Which still won't matter to you since, "Everyone you don't like is a Nazi and it is OK to punch a Nazi!"
I mean, they are only filthy Gamergaters, right?
Quote from: jeff37923;1051672Even if not a snitch, this guy is a grade-A troll for spreading fear, uncertainty, and doubt about this incident. I especially like the way he will only accept certain specific kinds of evidence and everything else is questionable. Nice touch that.
You can bet if it was a woman, trans-gendered, or non-white he would be bending over backwards to not only accept their word as gospel truth..proof we don't need proof accept what happened as fact. He would also try to make us out to be bad people for daring to not accept the victim at their word. You have to love or not the double standards.
Quote from: jeff37923;1051682Which still won't matter to you since, "Everyone you don't like is a Nazi and it is OK to punch a Nazi!"
I mean, they are only filthy Gamergaters, right?
C,mon Jeff that's not true your putting words in his mouth etc..
Quote from: jeff37923;1051682Which still won't matter to you since, "Everyone you don't like is a Nazi and it is OK to punch a Nazi!"
I mean, they are only filthy Gamergaters, right?
And yet another post putting words in my mouth I never said.
Quote from: sureshot;1051683You can bet if it was a woman, trans-gendered, or non-white he would be bending over backwards to not only accept their word as gospel truth..proof we don't need proof accept what happened as fact. He would also try to make us out to be bad people for daring to not accept the victim at their word. You have to love or not the double standards.
And another person putting words in my mouth. There is a single standard for evidence. IF allegations are only allegations with no evidence, they remain allegations until the judicial system sorts them out.
Quote from: sureshot;1051683C,mon Jeff that's not true your putting words in his mouth etc..
I'm glad you're starting to recognize the logical fallacy of doing such a thing in discourse.
What fallacy I said you would hide behind the excuse of posters putting words in your mouth and that's the first thing you use in your next post. Sorry but you don't get to say something then when it causes a negative reaction hide behind " I never said words in my mouth" That kind of crap may work over at the TBP not here.
Quote from: Xyxox;1051681Ah, when you quoted me and stated that It seemed that way.
I did not quote you.
I only commented here, on this topic, because of my past viewing of Hambly's Youtube spew.
I'm very much opposed to violence at any convention. It shouldn't be tolerated by anyone.
My view on dealing with it is very conservative. Avoid inviting provocateurs to the conventions in the first place. And the attacker in this case certainly had a long history of being a provocateur.
My view on conventions is pretty simple. Personal politics should be left at the door. And those who bring them up. No matter what side. Should have their passes canceled and be shown the door by security.
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1051691I only commented here, on this topic, because of my past viewing of Hambly's Youtube spew.
I'm very much opposed to violence at any convention. It shouldn't be tolerated by anyone.
My view on dealing with it is very conservative. Avoid inviting provocateurs to the conventions in the first place. And the attacker in this case certainly had a long history of being a provocateur.
My view on conventions is pretty simple. Personal politics should be left at the door. And those who bring them up. No matter what side. Should have their passes canceled and be shown the door by security.
sounds about right to me...
Quote from: Xyxox;1051667OFFS!
Agreed.
This is a public forum. It's completely unnecessary to have an insider.
So we can beat SJWs at will after this? SCORE.
Having read responses out there it is sad that people are defending an assault as a 'violent defensive right', or 'he was just an asshole' so it is fine to attack people that you disagree with.
Two-way street, that is.
Quote from: Xyxox;1051674Allegations are not evidence. Video would be evidence. Multiple eyewitnesses swearing under oath would be evidence. Until then, everything Hambly has done since the alleged event (no police report for than 18 hours, taking down all videos he originally posted about the event) weakens the veracity of the allegations until such a time as court proceedings ensue.
Allegations worked wonders for the "victims" of Gamergate. And they got caught lying, and provocating and making money off it.
No publicly disseminating police reports there either.
But listen and believe, right?
I imagine if it's a hoax it will become clear soon enough.
Likewise if someone is actually charged.
It seems pointless to argue about it, when time will tell.
Quote from: PrometheanVigil;1051662When they're pulling knives on each other for stupid shit like mobile phones ('cause that's how we interacted with each other circa mid-00s London) or because you won't let them call your darker-skinned friend a slur, yeah, no, they're getting time in a young offenders lockup. I wish I could say I stopped fighting when I hit uni... 'cept gradually its turned from physical to more social, tactical-like. Because, you know, I had (and continue to have) shit to lose.
I would like to think that your march did do something but ultimately, Alabama is still one of the worst states (some would argue the worst) for Black people to live and work. And of course you were told not to hit back: it kills any sympathy those marches were meant to drum up in the media. And I wish I could be virtue signalling, it seems like a pretty nice life -- bit fake though -- to lead these days. But I'm just that kinda of guy who actually means what he says and deconstructs bullshit where it rears its ugly head -- maybe I should turncoat?
Careful you don't cut yourself on all that edge there boyo.
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1051628Whatever happened to "Believe the victim"?
You answer your own question.
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1051633She's a woman. It's different. :D
See?
Quote from: sureshot;1051635Correction if she was a woman or trans-gendered or non-white it's different.
Yes, but his point is still valid.
Quote from: Xyxox;1051641I deny such a double standard exists. Believe it if you like.
Denying the truth does not change the truth.
Quote from: Warboss Squee;1051699Allegations worked wonders for the "victims" of Gamergate. And they got caught lying, and provocating and making money off it.
No publicly disseminating police reports there either.
But listen and believe, right?
You're a white male!
Quote from: Christopher Brady;1051511It's 'wrong' only in so much as they're effectively whoring themselves, not showing off any real skill at costume making.
Are you a cosplayer? Because that's the kind of salt I hear from other cosplayers.
Narcissism's a hellofa drug.
Quote from: chirine ba kal;1051525[ATTACH=CONFIG]2685[/ATTACH]
...
hot.
Quote from: Mistwell;1051536If it didn't happen, don't you think the guy accused of making the attack would have said so by now? His Yelp is devastated. His Trip Advisor is devastated. His recommendations as a person who performs weddings has been trashed. He shut his Twitter down. Several national papers have now covered it. Naw man, if this simply didn't happen he'd have issued a statement to that effect by now.
Combined with 5 witnesses and a broken window and the bar also not issuing any denial that it happened...his own twitter inviting people to fight him at GenCon...he own Twitter being informed that this guy was going to be there...the victim clearly not knowing who it was that attacked him at first...and it's obvious it did happen.
Well it's not obvious, but the circumstantial evidence is pretty compelling.
Quote from: Omega;1051540Unfortunately the attacker is/was apparently bragging about it online
No they weren't.
Quote from: Omega;1051541Back on topic apparently the editor of the Nerdist is backing the attacker and calling for more attacks? W-T-F???
Yep (https://archive.is/csEcp).
Gets even better (https://archive.is/beSol)...
Quote from: Ben McShaneWe know fascists make "rational" arguments in bad faith. Civic engagement cannot defeat bad fair.
If fascists experience physical harm for publicly holding fascist views, they stop expressing those views in public. It works. That's why this is so triggering for you.
So not only does he dismiss rational argument entirely (because it's always in bad faith when it comes from 'nazis'), he endorses using violence to prevent people from expressing their views publicly (despite the fact it doesn't actually work), and uses the word 'triggering' in exactly the way which got White Wolf in trouble.
Quote from: jeff37923;1051607I'm running across several gamers who really want to brush this incident under the rug and pretend it never happened. Their outlook being that if it isn't acknowledged, then it doesn't exist, and they can go on back to being unconscious of this socjus problem in nerd culture.
Which is exactly what women who have been victims of sexual assault have been complaining about.
Quote from: KingCheops;1051612how do you feel about a woman getting assaulted (let's just say physically for comparison sake) at an after party at a nightclub and then allowing the identified abuser to run a booth the next day at the convention?
This actually happened when the head of Vile Genius games was accused of asking a woman if she wanted to "playtest his penis" in an offsite bar during Origins. Nobody seemed to have a problem associating the incident with the event then, and people went so far as to share pics
of his daughter on #Twitter in an effort to condemn him.
Quote from: S'mon;1051668"It never happened... and it's great it happened!"
Permit me to Godwin and point out that this is what Holocaust deniers say.
BTW one way you can tell a hoaxer is by their refusal to go to the police or press charges; they want their claims kept well away from the actual police & judicial system, since there are potential serious consequences for lying. This guy's efforts to get the police to pay attention strongly indicate not-hoaxer to me.
#SlowClap
Quote from: Xyxox;1051627Sounds like most of the forum aren't buying Hambly's story either.
You say that as if rpg.net is somehow a credible source.
I'll stick with 4Chan thanks, as they've demonstrated an ability to expose the truth, as opposed to cover it up.
Quote from: Xyxox;1051627AAAaaaaand the alleged victim has now pulled all videos about the alleged attack from all of his channels,
That's because he's seeking justice through the legal system rather than an internet mob.
AAAaaaaand you're wrong...
[video=youtube_share;ncE9q6fHIU8]https://youtu.be/ncE9q6fHIU8[/youtube]
Quote from: Xyxox;1051636there was also corroborating evidence for Sprankle's allegations of harassment in the form of Hambly videos taken down by YouTube for violating their harassment policy.
No, that's only evidence of people wanting to silence him and having the power to do so. #YouTube is (thankfully) not a court of law, and their policies are anything but just, let alone evenly enforced. I mean why else would they still allow Jeremy to have
two #YouTube channels, right?
In the meantime, what evidence is there that Jeremy was harassing Sprankle, that his harassment is why she left cosplay, or that he's the leader of #Gamergate?
Quote from: Xyxox;1051627so until I see something to the contrary, I consider this a hoax gone bad in order to try and get retribution against somebody he doesn't like.
That's the difference between you and me. I assume
nothing until I have evidence. You on the other hand have already made a judgement based off personal bias.
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1051628Whatever happened to "Believe the victim"?
Quote from: Xyxox;1051636Whataboutism doesn't come into play here.
Oh reeeeely...
Quote from: Xyxox;1051641I deny such a double standard exists.
Then I dare you to make these same statements regarding a female victim on rpg.net, r/GamerGhazi, or resetera.com.
Matthew McFarland, C.A. Suleiman, Bill Webb, and Sean Patrick Fannon were all condemned solely through witness testimony without physical evidence or trial, and have been banned from sites and events because of it. In the meantime Anita Sarkeesian harassed an attendee on video and bullied a fellow panelist behind the scenes, and not only did VidCon gaslight us all on what actually happened, GenCon invited her as an Industry Guest of Honor.
Quote from: Xyxox;1051670Half the reason hoaxers are caught are because of their own stupidity, and Hambly doesn't impress me as being very intelligent.
If it's a hoax then 4Chan will find out soon enough.
In the meantime I'd stop saying stuff, as you're gonna look real stupid if it turns out you're wrong.
Quote from: Xyxox;1051674Allegations are not evidence.
I agree, which is why I don't #ListenAndBelieve.
Quote from: sureshot;1051666Careful everyone this poster is a snitch from rpg.net. One of my buddies had account perma-banned today and suddenly this guy starts posting here. I don't believe in coincidences. I would not be surprised if he is working with the mods over at TBP to get more people banned from there.
That's circumstantial as fuck, and I don't like dismissing people simply because they're new, especially when their statements are enough to discredit them. Besides, it's not like this thread is private or anything. So if there's stuff to snitch on they could find it by simply reading.
Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1051720...
hot.
:)
Pretty comfortable, actually; all that steel and brass acts as a very efficient heat-sink, as I found out one winter day when I got hypothermia when I didn't wear the over-cloak.
Quote from: Warboss Squee;1051697Agreed.
This is a public forum. It's completely unnecessary to have an insider.
Yet publishers and even other fora have people spy on forums.
Quote from: Omega;1051724Yet publishers and even other fora have people spy on forums.
Well perhaps - but you don't need someone to actually post to achieve that.
You just go and look.
Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1051720Are you a cosplayer? Because that's the kind of salt I hear from other cosplayers.
Narcissism's a hellofa drug.
Actually, I'm not. I like cosplaying, some of the recreations are pretty good, but I'm suspicious of any pretty girl or guy who is dressing down in exceptionally (as in more so than the original costume) skimpy costumes and expecting to be respected. Especially after the Vegan stunt at a local Comiccon.
Quote from: PrometheanVigil;1051662Watch Hidden Colors. I recommend #4, then #3. Get educated on the reality of how the modern anglosphere was created.
I took a quick look. Not sure if I want to pursue it any further. Looks like some strange gobeldeygook to me. And I'm not sure what it has to do with children being boiled alive.
Quote from: Lurtch;1051718You're a white male!
You are mostly correct.
Quote from: sureshot;1051666Careful everyone this poster is a snitch from rpg.net. One of my buddies had account perma-banned today and suddenly this guy starts posting here. I don't believe in coincidences. I would not be surprised if he is working with the mods over at TBP to get more people banned from there.
I can vouch for Xyxox. He and I don't agree on much politics-wise, but he's a good human being as far as I can tell.
Things we know:
1) There is an incident report in the Indianapolis data base. The details are not available but his name comes up as having an incident report. You can check it here (https://pay.indy.gov/incident_reports/search).
2) There was also a green dot indicating police reported incident at the bar in question on the night in question.
3) There is at least one witness statement on Twitter.
4) There was video of at least one witness on YouTube.
5) He likely pulled his YouTube videos on advice from the attorney he just hired. [Edit - I see he has a video back up now]
I think assuming this is a hoax is probably unwise at this point.
Quote from: Orphan81;1051584Sure, and I have no problem with that. But if you're showing videos of yourself shaking your ass, or waving your tits around and you're clearly not wearing a Bra underneath... while asking for money on your Patreon... Well, are you really doing it for the "art"?
You've got some issues to work out apparently.
- Ed C.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1051431I agree.
There is ZERO good for GenCon to make a peep about this.
Except that the guy who assaulted Quartering was at Gencon the next day.
Imagine if, say some nerdo had just shouted at, not even laid a hand on, Anita Sarkeesian at a bar. Do you believe that nerdo would have been allowed into Gencon the next day? Do you believe Gencon would have been PROMOTING HIS PRODUCTS the next day on their social media?!
Quote from: Christopher Brady;1051731Especially after the Vegan stunt at a local Comiccon.
Could you elaborate?
Quote from: Kyle Aaron;1051597You guys really need to get a game group. So does the loser assaulting people.
No group should have a member who assaults people for differing opinions...unless it's an in-prison RPG club!
Quote from: Omega;1051596http://boundingintocomics.com/2018/08/03/nerdist-producer-promotes-and-encourages-violence-in-wake-of-attack-on-jeremy-hambly/ (http://boundingintocomics.com/2018/08/03/nerdist-producer-promotes-and-encourages-violence-in-wake-of-attack-on-jeremy-hambly/)
Thank you for that link.
That's insane. Nerdist producer encouraging violence against political foes???
Wow.
Quote from: KingCheops;1051612Finally, for those defending GenCon with the whole "It happened off GenCon grounds" how do you feel about a woman getting assaulted (let's just say physically for comparison sake) at an after party at a nightclub and then allowing the identified abuser to run a booth the next day at the convention?
I don't want GenCon (or any other convention) involved in any shit that doesn't happen at their convention.
If a woman is attacked a nightclub, what happens next depends on her and the cops, not GenCon.
Innocent until PROVEN guilty
in a court of law is how our system works.
I really HATE the trend of private corporations trying to become Virtue Nannies.
Quote from: AsenRG;1051621There are words that can get you punched.
No. There are NO words that can get you punched.
Words are NEVER an excuse for violence.
Quote from: Xyxox;1051684There is a single standard for evidence. IF allegations are only allegations with no evidence, they remain allegations until the judicial system sorts them out.
EXACTLY!!!
I completely agree allegations are NOT evidence.
You should post this on RPG.net ASAP. Those poor SJWs need you to educate them.
Quote from: Omega;1051724Yet publishers and even other fora have people spy on forums.
Now that's just daring me to post dick pics!!
Quote from: Xyxox;1051645Present the evidence that Hambly was attacked. I'm waiting, but don't go looking for Hambly's videos about the alleged attack because the vile GG scammer has already taken them down.
Dude, first of all, he was attacked in a crowded bar. There were like, a half-dozen witnesses close enough to identify the attacker.
Second, he has filed a police report and posted a new video about it now.
Trying to deny this is even more ridiculous than trying to defend the attacker.
Quote from: rawma;1051657On this board, where it's widely accepted that more than half of all assault reports by women are made up? I'd expect even more support for GenCon. I'm kinda impressed that this forum has kept as open a mind about the whole thing as it has, since social justice warriors are even more hated here than women.
I miss the days when this sort of political thread only turned up in the Pundit's forum. There were a few times in the past where almost all of the posting at theRPGsite was in the political threads there; moving them into the main forum has not been an improvement. And I think this thread is somewhat off-topic for this forum; GenCon's involvement and the industry significance of the people actually involved are all so minor that it hardly qualifies as "industry events or gossip".
This isn't a political thread. This is a thread about the current problems in gaming culture.
James Raggi had to HIRE BODYGUARDS to go to Gencon this year.
Quote from: sureshot;1051666Careful everyone this poster is a snitch from rpg.net. One of my buddies had account perma-banned today and suddenly this guy starts posting here. I don't believe in coincidences. I would not be surprised if he is working with the mods over at TBP to get more people banned from there.
Why should that matter? No one should bother posting in that shithole anymore anyways.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1051740Except that the guy who assaulted Quartering was at Gencon the next day.
If two people get in a fight at a bar, unless the police arrest one of them, they can go to work the next day.
Heck, even if they're arrested, cops usually won't hold them long. Jails are too full as is.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1051740Imagine if, say some nerdo had just shouted at, not even laid a hand on, Anita Sarkeesian at a bar. Do you believe that nerdo would have been allowed into Gencon the next day?
I know GenCon would have shat itself silly over that nerdo!
BUT that would be the WRONG response.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1051740Do you believe Gencon would have been PROMOTING HIS PRODUCTS the next day on their social media?!
Of course not! Nerdo would have been ghosted off GenCon's everything!
And again, that's the WRONG response from a company. At most, it could acknowledge "an incident involving an attendee and an exhibitor occurred outside of GenCon and GenCon is leaving the matter to law enforcement."
BTW, what exactly did GenCon do to promote this asshat's products?
Quote from: RPGPundit;1051740Except that the guy who assaulted Quartering was at Gencon the next day.
Imagine if, say some nerdo had just shouted at, not even laid a hand on, Anita Sarkeesian at a bar. Do you believe that nerdo would have been allowed into Gencon the next day? Do you believe Gencon would have been PROMOTING HIS PRODUCTS the next day on their social media?!
I believe that he would have been crucified. On the other tentacle, I don't Gencon has any responsibility to do the job of the police and the courts on this matter _or_ on the proposed Sarkeesian dissing. I think entities like corporations and universities and cons should pull out of the policing and virtue-enforcing business.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1051747If two people get in a fight at a bar, unless the police arrest one of them, they can go to work the next day.
Two guys did NOT "get into a fight in a bar". ONE guy did a sneak attack and tried to viciously beat another guy without the slightest bit of prompting. The other guy did not fight back but retreated from the fight to a place of safety, at which point the assailant punched a fucking window.
QuoteBTW, what exactly did GenCon do to promote this asshat's products?
They posted promotions of the guys Gencon booth.
Incidentally, here's my blog post on the Gencon assault (http://therpgpundit.blogspot.com/2018/08/on-gencon-protecting-and-endorsing.html).
Quote from: RPGPundit;1051745James Raggi had to HIRE BODYGUARDS to go to Gencon this year.
Did Raggi post an explanation for WHY?
Security isn't cheap.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1051750Two guys did NOT "get into a fight in a bar". ONE guy did a sneak attack and tried to viciously beat another guy without the slightest bit of prompting. The other guy did not fight back but retreated from the fight to a place of safety, at which point the assailant punched a fucking window.
If it was up to me, everyone who commits assault would sit and shit in a jail cell until their fair and speedy trial.
But I know cops, especially in big cities like Indy (and even more especially when incidents involve bars), so even if the attacker was arrested, I could see them being let out of jail in a few hours.
AKA, plenty of time to go back to work, or attend GenCon.
Quote from: jeff37923;1051741Could you elaborate?
Just a bunch of would be cosplayers using their bodies and skimpier than should have been (one girl was wearing less than Savage Lands Rogue from X-Men as her outfit, I'm sure she was someone from a comic), trying to promote their ideology and knowing exactly what they were doing. And got upset when someone pointed it out (not me. I had asked a question that had bothered me sincerely, "What do you do with the chickens and cows? It took hundreds of thousands of years to make them into the food animals today, they can't live in the wild, and if we can't use them for food or materials, are super expensive to keep as rather stupid pets." They ignored me.) what they were doing and got the entire family kicked out.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;1051759Just a bunch of would be cosplayers using their bodies and skimpier than should have been (one girl was wearing less than Savage Lands Rogue from X-Men as her outfit, I'm sure she was someone from a comic), trying to promote their ideology and knowing exactly what they were doing. And got upset when someone pointed it out (not me. I had asked a question that had bothered me sincerely, "What do you do with the chickens and cows? It took hundreds of thousands of years to make them into the food animals today, they can't live in the wild, and if we can't use them for food or materials, are super expensive to keep as rather stupid pets." They ignored me.) what they were doing and got the entire family kicked out.
Sounds like what I expected.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1051751Incidentally, here's my blog post on the Gencon assault (http://therpgpundit.blogspot.com/2018/08/on-gencon-protecting-and-endorsing.html).
The MAD analogy is a good one.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1051751Incidentally, here's my blog post on the Gencon assault (http://therpgpundit.blogspot.com/2018/08/on-gencon-protecting-and-endorsing.html).
You said it very well:
We have to recognize EVERYONE'S freedom of speech and conscience, because as soon as you claim that your brute force/power can be used to violently silence someone who disagrees with you, you are forfeiting your only argument against someone else more powerful than you using their brute force to silence YOU.
THIS
"We have to recognize EVERYONE'S freedom of speech and conscience, because as soon as you claim that your brute force/power can be used to violently silence someone who disagrees with you, you are forfeiting your only argument against someone else more powerful than you using their brute force to silence YOU."
1000% THIS
It follows the basic logic of not giving anybody authority/power over you which you wouldn't want your worst enemy to have.
...and the fact that they don't understand this simple idea, shows a complete breakdown of any critical thinking ability.
I suppose I shouldn't really be surprised at this point. :rolleyes:
Quote from: Spinachcat;1051742No. There are NO words that can get you punched.
Empirical evidence points to the contrary, man;)!
QuoteWords are NEVER an excuse for violence.
I'm not talking about "excuses", as I'm neither condoning nor condemning it. I'm stating it's a fact of life that everyone needs to acknowledge, even though the law is quite clear in its disapproval:D!
Quote from: WillInNewHaven;1051749I believe that he would have been crucified. On the other tentacle, I don't Gencon has any responsibility to do the job of the police and the courts on this matter _or_ on the proposed Sarkeesian dissing. I think entities like corporations and universities and cons should pull out of the policing and virtue-enforcing business.
But they sure as hell should be policing their own image. If I'm working for a place and commit a criminal offense I'd get fired almost immediately depending what the offense was (public urination -- don't do it again; assault -- you're not a good fit). The company doesn't want to be associated with the negative act. You know unless it is Hollyweird and they're looking to hire a director for an action movie franchise. The assaulter wasn't just some random convention attendee -- he was an exhibitor and was promoted on their social media. That's a VERY BAD look.
Between this and Anita Sarkeesian GenCon has officially come off my bucket list.
What you're really acknowledging, AsenRG, is that people, empirically, are composed of a ginormous segment that happen to be idiots. They are the largest tribe on earth.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;1051511It's 'wrong' only in so much as they're effectively whoring themselves, not showing off any real skill at costume making.
Maybe "exotic-dancering" themselves, at most. It's not like they're getting paid for real hanky-panky if they're getting paid at all.
Quote from: AsenRG;1051805I'm not talking about "excuses", as I'm neither condoning nor condemning it. I'm stating it's a fact of life that everyone needs to acknowledge, even though the law is quite clear in its disapproval:D!
The law though is the moral expression of the voting public, so it is condemned by the voting public. The fact of life is that some people are either criminal, lack impulse control or think the consequences do not apply to them (or collectively, TenBone's 'idiots').
That is also why many USA states have 'stand your ground' laws and their jails accumulate the above. And that's okay.
Quote from: Lynn;1051820The law though is the moral expression of the voting public, so it is condemned by the voting public. The fact of life is that some people are either criminal, lack impulse control or think the consequences do not apply to them (or collectively, TenBone's 'idiots').
That is also why many USA states have 'stand your ground' laws and their jails accumulate the above. And that's okay.
Most of the law is the expression of yesteryears' voting public. Today's voting public can change that some, but it's a very slow and difficult process.
Quote from: Koltar;1051739You've got some issues to work out apparently.
- Ed C.
The Cosplayer in question says she doesn't want to be seen in a sexual manner...and LITERALLY HAS two videos on her website...one where she's clearly not wearing a bra and shaking her boobs...the other where she's shaking her ass and making a pun about her ass...
And calling her a hypocrite means I have issues?
Quote from: Orphan81;1051830The Cosplayer in question says she doesn't want to be seen in a sexual manner...and LITERALLY HAS two videos on her website...one where she's clearly not wearing a bra and shaking her boobs...the other where she's shaking her ass and making a pun about her ass...
Wait wait wait wait....
You can't drop a claim like that without a link!
So this latest video answers a lot of questions.
1) There are definitely witnesses to the assault.
2) There does seem to be a police report (and I was able to look it up and his name is listed in the data base in Indianapolis)
3) He isn't even the one directly behind the GoFundMe project, and he's not taking the money until the contributors decide how it should be used, and he's fine refunding all the money as well. He's not going to profit from the GoFundMe.
4) The accused responded to it on his private FB page, where he concludes with "#PunchNazis"
Quote from: Mistwell;1051833So this latest video answers a lot of questions.
1) There are definitely witnesses to the assault.
2) There does seem to be a police report (and I was able to look it up and his name is listed in the data base in Indianapolis)
3) He isn't even the one directly behind the GoFundMe project, and he's not taking the money until the contributors decide how it should be used, and he's fine refunding all the money as well. He's not going to profit from the GoFundMe.
4) The accused responded to it on his private FB page, where he concludes with "#PunchNazis"
Well now, I'm sure the posters who jumped to the conclusion that it was faked for money will [strike]concede that this looks legit[/strike] double down.
Quote from: Mistwell;1051832Wait wait wait wait....
You can't drop a claim like that without a link!
I posted a link from Sargon earlier where he shows the actual clips in question, and also explains the whole Hambly getting banned from Magic:The Gathering thing. She's removed the clips and pics from her Instagram account, but you can still see them in his video. Relevant pics start at 3:30 minute mark in video...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ale7CrTIloI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ale7CrTIloI)
Quote from: Orphan81;1051836I posted a link from Sargon earlier where he shows the actual clips in question, and also explains the whole Hambly getting banned from Magic:The Gathering thing. She's removed the clips and pics from her Instagram account, but you can still see them in his video. Relevant pics start at 3:30 minute mark in video...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ale7CrTIloI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ale7CrTIloI)
Thank you. Also, my comment was intended as a joke. But still, thank you.
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1051835Well now, I'm sure the posters who jumped to the conclusion that it was faked for money will [strike]concede that this looks legit[/strike] double down.
Indeed, where is Xyxox? He hasn't claimed that "he never said that" and "we are putting words in his mouth" in the hours since that video came out....
Quote from: jeff37923;1051838Indeed, where is Xyxox? He hasn't claimed that "he never said that" and "we are putting words in his mouth" in the hours since that video came out....
Disappeared back to the big purple to call is Nazis
Quote from: TJS;1051728Well perhaps - but you don't need someone to actually post to achieve that.
You just go and look.
Right. But for whatever reason some of these loons just have to crawl out from under their rock and try to rile things up so they have "evidence".
Quote from: ThatChrisGuy;1051817Maybe "exotic-dancering" themselves, at most. It's not like they're getting paid for real hanky-panky if they're getting paid at all.
Anytime a person uses their body to sell something, they are whoring themselves. That includes selling their own body for looks and up to and including sex.
Tangent: This is NOT a bad thing. I'm one of those few who think that this sort of job should be legalized. Cuz at that point can be taxed, regulated and the workers can get safety nets like medical insurance. Just call it as it is.
Not all cosplayers do it, because they put most of their work into the costume. Yes, some of those costumes are skimpy, but you can tell which has put WORK into it to get it accurate.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1051750They posted promotions of the guys Gencon booth.
The fact GenCon is promoting a designer who walked off with 15 grand of backers money is nearly more onerous than the offsite attack. This is up there with Origins nominating or giving Zwiehander an award recently.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;1051851but you can tell which has put WORK into it to get it accurate.
You say this as if it means a quantum of a damn.
Quote from: jeff37923;1051838Indeed, where is Xyxox? He hasn't claimed that "he never said that" and "we are putting words in his mouth" in the hours since that video came out....
I've basically given up here because there is no discussing anything with GGers.
Quote from: Xyxox;1051856I've basically given up here because there is no discussing anything with GGers.
Given up after 24 posts... Don't let the door hit your arse on the way out.
GGers?! That's one feeble excuse... LOL.
I'm old. What the hell is a GGer?
gamergater.
Which is a label that doesn't apply to most of the people in this discussion.
Quote from: baran_i_kanu;1051858I'm old. What the hell is a GGer?
A bogeyman invented by SJWs when some video game enthusiasts said hey maybe getting blowjobs in exchange for positive video game reviews was a bad way to go about the industry/art. GG means GamerGate because we can't have a good controversy without attaching the "Gate" suffix (see : "Watergate"). For 99% of the world "Gamer-Gate" came and went in about 14 months; the IngSocJus crowd trots it out like Immanuel Goldstein periodically to try and rile up the Outer Party and Proles when they need to "win" an "argument".
Like our goalpost-shifting new buddy, there.
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1051859gamergater.
Which is a label that doesn't apply to most of the people in this discussion.
Oh sure it does. I mean, from his perspective. Alt-right, gamer-gater, I'm surprised he hasn't thrown incel and white nationalist on the table yet.
Quote from: Omega;1051600I dont think assaulting someone is "politics."
Supposedly that is'why' the punch happened. A child in an adult body cannot handle someone having a different political view than he has.
But yes our Australian buddy Kyle Aaron is very much correct - always much better to play a game.
- Ed C.
....and people wonder why I don't go to bars....
Quote from: thedungeondelver;1051861Oh sure it does. I mean, from his perspective. Alt-right, gamer-gater, I'm surprised he hasn't thrown incel and white nationalist on the table yet.
I think Hambly is a jackass. Because he did harass and bully that professional cosplayer out of the hobby she chose to pursue. He's no innocent.
But I am also very much against violence at conventions. It's unacceptable. No matter how much of a jackass the person punched has been.
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1051863I think Hambly is a jackass. Because he did harass and bully that professional cosplayer out of the hobby she chose to pursue. He's no innocent.
But I am also very much against violence at conventions. It's unacceptable. No matter how much of a jackass the person punched has been.
How did he harassing and bully her out of the hobby?
Quote from: Xyxox;1051856I've basically given up here because there is no discussing anything with GGers.
Very few of us play video games or know what GG is
Quote from: Christopher Brady;1051851Anytime a person uses their body to sell something, they are whoring themselves. That includes selling their own body for looks and up to and including sex.
Tangent: This is NOT a bad thing. I'm one of those few who think that this sort of job should be legalized. Cuz at that point can be taxed, regulated and the workers can get safety nets like medical insurance. Just call it as it is.
.
Because "whoring" is a word without any negative connotations.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1051745This isn't a political thread. This is a thread about the current problems in gaming culture.
Pretty much any thread with SJW (or Nazi) in the title is a political one.
Quote from: Lurtch;1051864How did he harassing and bully her out of the hobby?
Unwelcome commentary. He made her feel uncomfortabe. And yes, that is good enough of a claim for her to have made.
Cosplayers are not at conventions for people to leer at them and disparage them. They are there trying to get work. They are showing off their skills to be able to get a job as a costume designer or to sell their services in the modelling field. Both of which many of the game companies employ them for.
They deserve the respect any professional is due.
Quote from: Xyxox;1051856I've basically given up here because there is no discussing anything with GGers.
Most of the site along with the site owner are openly not fans of GG.
So shine on you crazy fuckstick.
Quote from: Xyxox;1051856I've basically given up here because there is no discussing anything with GGers.
[video=youtube_share;BZwuTo7zKM8]https://youtu.be/BZwuTo7zKM8[/youtube]
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1051869Unwelcome commentary. He made her feel uncomfortabe. And yes, that is good enough of a claim for her to have made.
Your post make me deeply uncomfortable. I'm literally shaking from my twitter PTSD right now. You monster.
QuoteCosplayers are not at conventions for people to leer at them and disparage them. They are there trying to get work. They are showing off their skills to be able to get a job as a costume designer or to sell their services in the modelling field. Both of which many of the game companies employ them for.
They deserve the respect any professional is due.
I'll admit I don't know this specific, but did Hambly ever
talk to Sprankels? AFAIK he made some commentary on his youtube channel about her.
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1051869Unwelcome commentary. He made her feel uncomfortabe. And yes, that is good enough of a claim for her to have made.
Cosplayers are not at conventions for people to leer at them and disparage them. They are there trying to get work. They are showing off their skills to be able to get a job as a costume designer or to sell their services in the modelling field. Both of which many of the game companies employ them for.
They deserve the respect any professional is due.
Unwelcome commentary isn't harassing or harrasment. He never harassed her. He said she isn't in the MTG community because she is just there to make a buck and that's true.
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1051876Your post make me deeply uncomfortable. I'm literally shaking from my twitter PTSD right now. You monster.
I'll admit I don't know this specific, but did Hambly ever talk to Sprankels? AFAIK he made some commentary on his youtube channel about her.
Correct. He made a couple negative comments about her on a YouTube video. That isn't harassing her nor forcing her out of the community. It's thirsty nerds white knighting her hopes of getting laid.
WoTC just used it as an excuse to ban somebody they didn't like.
Quote from: HappyDaze;1051829Most of the law is the expression of yesteryears' voting public. Today's voting public can change that some, but it's a very slow and difficult process.
Sort of. Yesteryear's voting public picked up what was there, modified it, changed their minds a few times and more, all the while new generations started voting, influencing it and more. It does collectively represent, though it may not represent whatever is the youngest or smallest generational block. It may seem unbearably slow to the Adderall and Ritalin generation, but that's the way it works, and anyone here over the age of 50 has seen a lot of change in their lifetime.
Quote from: rawma;1051868Pretty much any thread with SJW (or Nazi) in the title is a political one.
Really?
Even if it was about a roleplaying game campaign idea that is set during World War II?
In the immortal words of a silly movie: "Lighten up Francis"
- Ed C.
Quote from: Koltar;1051880Really?
Even if it was about a roleplaying game campaign idea that is set during World War II?
In the immortal words of a silly movie: "Lighten up Francis"
- Ed C.
Good catch. I will qualify the Nazi in my original statement as not being an actual historical Nazi. Political name calling makes a thread political.
I skipped a few pages, but just wanted to say I hope Jeremy Hambly finds justice. Oh yeah, and WTF, GenCon?!? Also, this issue isn't being discussed on other RPG forums? Not cool.
VS
Quote from: VengerSatanis;1051885I skipped a few pages, but just wanted to say I hope Jeremy Hambly finds justice. Oh yeah, and WTF, GenCon?!? Also, this issue isn't being discussed on other RPG forums? Not cool.
VS
Well, technically speaking - it isn't Gencon's fault.
It didn't happen in the Convention center, Lucas Field or any of the event spaces in the Hotels. It was a bar a block or two away. So truthfully "Gencon" doesn't have to comment on it at all.
- Ed C.
Quote from: Koltar;1051886Well, technically speaking - it isn't Gencon's fault.
It didn't happen in the Convention center, Lucas Field or any of the event spaces in the Hotels. It was a bar a block or two away. So truthfully "Gencon" doesn't have to comment on it at all.
- Ed C.
true, they didn't have to comment, but actively squashing any discussion about it is suspect.
Quote from: NYTFLYR;1051887true, they didn't have to comment, but actively squashing any discussion about it is suspect.
Do you see conspiracy theories everywhere?
Have you ever been on a con Committee?
The night this happened and the morning after Gen Con staff is likely more worried about what is going on in the actual con area and if everyone is safe there and if things are running smoothly.
The Monday after a con?
They are likely catching up on sleep and doing lots of laundry and trying to re-acclimate to their regular 9 to 5 Monday through Friday job.
- Ed C.
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1051869Unwelcome commentary. He made her feel uncomfortabe. And yes, that is good enough of a claim for her to have made.
No it's not. It's his OPINION, that at last check was not an assault of any sort. She overreacted to a man who didn't like what she was doing in a hobby he loved. We do it here all the time.
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1051869Cosplayers are not at conventions for people to leer at them and disparage them.
es, they are. They are showing off either their bodies and/or their skill at costume making. And that invites judgments. And judging things is what humans do, it's part of how we classify things in our heads. This is good, that is not. This is safe, that is not. This is pretty, that is OH MY GOD WHY IS IT COMING FOR ME?
Ahem. Sometimes the costumes suck, or the person wearing said costume really shouldn't. You seriously do not want me trying to be Movie or Comic Conan. It's not a pleasant sight.
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1051869They are there trying to get work.
Most are not. Most just like to 'dress up' as their favourite characters. And I'm using the term 'up' euphemistically.
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1051869They are showing off their skills to be able to get a job as a costume designer or to sell their services in the modelling field. Both of which many of the game companies employ them for.
There are better ways to do that than trying for 'exposure' which just ends up having the would be model or designer having to work for free or being ignored. Modeling agencies exist for a reason.
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1051869They deserve the respect any professional is due.
If they were professionals, they would likely get it. But most of them are not.
Quote from: Warboss Squee;1051873Most of the site along with the site owner are openly not fans of GG.
So shine on you crazy fuckstick.
I approve of this message.
Quote from: Lurtch;1051878Correct. He made a couple negative comments about her on a YouTube video. That isn't harassing her nor forcing her out of the community. It's thirsty nerds white knighting her hopes of getting laid.
WoTC just used it as an excuse to ban somebody they didn't like.
Do you think any of those guys seriously thinks he might get
laid, what with decades of experience telling them no.
Quote from: VengerSatanis;1051885I skipped a few pages, but just wanted to say I hope Jeremy Hambly finds justice. Oh yeah, and WTF, GenCon?!? Also, this issue isn't being discussed on other RPG forums? Not cool.
VS
Oh, it is being discussed over on TPG in the tangency area, if by discussion you mean falling all over themselves agreeing with the line and moderators swarming all over anyone who disagrees. I may or may not be banned but I'm not going back to find out. I was going to go out with a song parody but they started moderating me for stuff far less offensive than what I planned.
Now I guess I will never write "Cross YouTube free of any who oppose us" to the tune of "Cross Campus Free" which in turn is based on the Horst Wessel Lied.
Quote from: Xyxox;1051856I've basically given up here because there is no discussing anything with GGers.
Because everyone you disagree with is a Nazi, GamerGater, whatthefuckever.....
Quote from: Koltar;1051890Do you see conspiracy theories everywhere?
Have you ever been on a con Committee?
The night this happened and the morning after Gen Con staff is likely more worried about what is going on in the actual con area and if everyone is safe there and if things are running smoothly.
The Monday after a con?
They are likely catching up on sleep and doing lots of laundry and trying to re-acclimate to their regular 9 to 5 Monday through Friday job.
- Ed C.
If the Con Committee was busy with the convention, then why did the Assailant get specifically promoted on GenCon's Twitter feed and why was any discussion of the crime squashed on any GenCon related chat?
Quote from: jeff37923;1051898If the Con Committee was busy with the convention, then why did the Assailant get specifically promoted on GenCon's Twitter feed and why was any discussion of the crime squashed on any GenCon related chat?
Indeed...it's the cover-up that gets you, every time.
Quote from: AsenRG;1051805I'm not talking about "excuses", as I'm neither condoning nor condemning it. I'm stating it's a fact of life that everyone needs to acknowledge, even though the law is quite clear in its disapproval:D!
I understand. There's the law of the court and the law of the streets.
Quote from: KingCheops;1051809Between this and Anita Sarkeesian GenCon has officially come off my bucket list.
Hopefully, this SJW fad will pass and GenCon will be worth attending again.
In the meantime, there are LOTS of cool small regional cons worth your time.
Quote from: Xyxox;1051856I've basically given up here because there is no discussing anything with GGers.
Don't give up. You are ALWAYS welcome to express yourself here....even if we never agree.
Who knows? Maybe some lurkers or other posters will agree with you. Or you could bring some friends into our babbling cesspool.
But regardless of our disagreements, your FREE SPEECH is welcome here.
Quote from: NYTFLYR;1051887true, they didn't have to comment, but actively squashing any discussion about it is suspect.
THIS is true.
Quote from: Koltar;1051890Do you see conspiracy theories everywhere?
Mostly on the History channel!
Quote from: Koltar;1051890Have you ever been on a con Committee?
Sadly and regrettably I certainly have and for many years.
Quote from: WillInNewHaven;1051895Do you think any of those guys seriously thinks he might get laid, what with decades of experience telling them no.
YES!! White knights ALWAYS think they'll get wet dick.
That's why they are so adamant and energetic. It's male sex drive in action.
Quote from: VengerSatanis;1051885I skipped a few pages, but just wanted to say I hope Jeremy Hambly finds justice. Oh yeah, and WTF, GenCon?!? Also, this issue isn't being discussed on other RPG forums? Not cool.
VS
There is a 14+ page thread on it over on BGG since this is technically board gamers vs board gamers. Or designer vs gamer?
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/2036770/are-game-conventions-now-going-become-war-zones/page/1 (https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/2036770/are-game-conventions-now-going-become-war-zones/page/1)
Quote from: Doom;1051899Indeed...it's the cover-up that gets you, every time.
I would not call it a cover up. But someone at GenCon is acting darn suspect.
Quote from: jeff37923;1051898If the Con Committee was busy with the convention, then why did the Assailant get specifically promoted on GenCon's Twitter feed and why was any discussion of the crime squashed on any GenCon related chat?
I *may* have an answer here.
Full Disclosure...I know the Breaking Games crew. They're in LA and host our game design meetup. I playtested Expancity, but I never met Jackass McFuckstick as I don't think he's local. Breaking Games works with many designers, local and not. I'm a huge fan of Breaking Games' Rise of Tribes boardgame and I've pimped it here during its Kickstarter. As its a Los Angeles Meetup, its got its share of SJWs, but plenty of non-political people who just love games, and politics isn't discussed at Meetups (very thankfully). Its a great meetup of gamers who love to playtest prototypes.
McFuckstick is a game designer, not the publisher. Breaking Games is a division of Ad Magic, the people who print Exploding Kittens and Cards Against Humanity, and they're the publisher of Expancity. Think of the designer/publisher relationship like the book business. Authors pimp their books, publishers cut them a contract, finish the design work and put the game on the market and the designers are useful for sales promotions at cons and in social media.
So WTF?
I *believe* [and I may be 1000% wrong] publishers BUY ad space on GenCon's Twitter feed...and buy it before the con.
I *believe* that's why the GenCon Twitter was offering THAT ad on THAT day and it's not about GenCon virtue signalling support for political violence.
I *believe* this is an unhappy and fucked up coincidence.
But I've been wrong before AND I fully agree that GenCon banning discussion of the incident stinks of bullshit.
Also as I've posted many time before, I maintain a mental separation between Creator and Creation. This is one of those times where unfortunately, I like the Creation and despise the Creator. That said, it is quite easy these days to enjoy a Creation without providing any recompense to a particular Creator. If that confuses anyone, I mean "you can always buy shit second hand so the originators get nothing from you." AKA, how I deal with WotC.
Quote from: Koltar;1051890Do you see conspiracy theories everywhere?
Have you ever been on a con Committee?
The night this happened and the morning after Gen Con staff is likely more worried about what is going on in the actual con area and if everyone is safe there and if things are running smoothly.
The Monday after a con?
They are likely catching up on sleep and doing lots of laundry and trying to re-acclimate to their regular 9 to 5 Monday through Friday job.
- Ed C.
Then why were they banning people asking about it (or asking more general questions about who to contact about violence) on their Twitch channel? There's plenty of proof of that. That does seem suspicious to me. I've got nothing against GenCon, but that is a really bad move on their part, imho.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1051903I *may* have an answer here.
Full Disclosure...I know the Breaking Games crew. They're in LA and host our game design meetup. I playtested Expancity, but I never met Jackass McFuckstick as I don't think he's local. Breaking Games works with many designers, local and not. I'm a huge fan of Breaking Games' Rise of Tribes boardgame and I've pimped it here during its Kickstarter. As its a Los Angeles Meetup, its got its share of SJWs, but plenty of non-political people who just love games, and politics isn't discussed at Meetups (very thankfully). Its a great meetup of gamers who love to playtest prototypes.
McFuckstick is a game designer, not the publisher. Breaking Games is a division of Ad Magic, the people who print Exploding Kittens and Cards Against Humanity, and they're the publisher of Expancity. Think of the designer/publisher relationship like the book business. Authors pimp their books, publishers cut them a contract, finish the design work and put the game on the market and the designers are useful for sales promotions at cons and in social media.
So WTF?
I *believe* [and I may be 1000% wrong] publishers BUY ad space on GenCon's Twitter feed...and buy it before the con.
I *believe* that's why the GenCon Twitter was offering THAT ad on THAT day and it's not about GenCon virtue signalling support for political violence.
I *believe* this is an unhappy and fucked up coincidence.
But I've been wrong before AND I fully agree that GenCon banning discussion of the incident stinks of bullshit.
Also as I've posted many time before, I maintain a mental separation between Creator and Creation. This is one of those times where unfortunately, I like the Creation and despise the Creator. That said, it is quite easy these days to enjoy a Creation without providing any recompense to a particular Creator. If that confuses anyone, I mean "you can always buy shit second hand so the originators get nothing from you." AKA, how I deal with WotC.
OK, the advertising scenario you posted is sensible and logical. I concede that it may very well be the explanation. But wow, what absolute horrible timing.
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1051869They deserve the respect any professional is due.
Cosplayers deserve respect
because they are people, but I think calling what they do a profession is really stretching.
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1051875[video=youtube_share;BZwuTo7zKM8]https://youtu.be/BZwuTo7zKM8[/youtube]
Legend!!:D
Quote from: HappyDaze;1051910Cosplayers deserve respect because they are people, but I think calling what they do a profession is really stretching.
Most cosplayers that I know do it because there is something about the character they are cosplaying that they find interesting or attractive, so they take the time to learn as much about the character as possible before cosplaying that character. With that said, there definitely are cosplayers out there who look at a character and say, "Hey, that's hot! I bet I could solicit a lot of money from horny nerds if I wore this to a con!"
I'll let the reader decide which type of cosplayer they think deserves more respect.
Quote from: HappyDaze;1051910Cosplayers deserve respect because they are people, but I think calling what they do a profession is really stretching.
profession indicates they get paid to do what they do... and sorry, people doesn't deserve respect just because of a job/career...
Quote from: HappyDaze;1051910Cosplayers deserve respect because they are people, but I think calling what they do a profession is really stretching.
Have you seen some of the costumes? Many cosplayers put hollywood costuming to shame with what they can accomplish. And some few do it for a living as prop makers for others without the skills, but the body and desire to costume.
Back on topic. I think Spinachcat has the likelyest answer for why GenCon was supporting the attacker. They werent, they were supporting the attackers host and might have been unaware of the connection at the time.
Quote from: NYTFLYR;1051913profession indicates they get paid to do what they do... and sorry, people doesn't deserve respect just because of a job/career...
That's not really what profession means. There's a difference between those working a job and those practicing a profession. The latter typically has specialized knowledge and a social contract towards serving society. I don't really see those traits as applying to cosplayers.
This is a prime example of what punk ass regressive left ninnies do when they leave their safe spaces and are faced with real world disagreement.
Quote from: Xyxox;1051856I've basically given up here because there is no discussing anything with GGers.
Bye Felipe.
Quote from: Omega;1051901There is a 14+ page thread on it over on BGG since this is technically board gamers vs board gamers. Or designer vs gamer?
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/2036770/are-game-conventions-now-going-become-war-zones/page/1 (https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/2036770/are-game-conventions-now-going-become-war-zones/page/1)
What a shit show. I'm not surprised there is some overlap between RPGNet assholes and people on that thread:
https://boardgamegeek.com/article/29710194#29710194
https://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?832315-opinion-on-weird-request&p=22043786#post22043786
Quote from: ArrozConLeche;1051921What a shit show. I'm not surprised there is some overlap between RPGNet assholes and people on that thread:
https://boardgamegeek.com/article/29710194#29710194
https://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?832315-opinion-on-weird-request&p=22043786#post22043786
:rolleyes: I think it's time for someone to make a modern update of the old Internet Tough Guy Magazine meme. This incident has certainly brought them out in force.
Guys. People cosplay for a lot of reasons. You are all partially correct, but you're also stupid assholes.
You're like a bunch of blind men fondling an elephant.
Quote from: Cave Bear;1051929You're like a bunch of blind men fondling an elephant.
At least the elephant gets a little rub-rub. :)
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1051930At least the elephant gets a little rub-rub. :)
That's more than any of the white Knights defending their fair maiden are ever going to get.
What do we make of the fact that heterosexual, non-sjw men also cosplay?
Quote from: Cave Bear;1051932What do we make of the fact that heterosexual, non-sjw men also cosplay?
Dunno. What do you make of it? That's a pretty vague question.
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1051933Dunno. What do you make of it? That's a pretty vague question.
Certain people in this thread seem to be assuming that cosplayers are all chicks.
Quote from: Cave Bear;1051934Certain people in this thread seem to be assuming that cosplayers are all chicks.
If it hasn't been clear, at least for me, I'm talking about a specific sub set of cosplayers, not all..
And even that subset has a right to keep doing what they're doing.. I'm just going to keep callin those particular ones thots.
Yep. We're talking about female cosplayers because of the sex-based social dynamics in the geek community.
It's such a clear example, that I have to say it: Feminism is Patriarchy.
Quote from: Cave Bear;1051932What do we make of the fact that heterosexual, non-sjw men also cosplay?
Personally, I think all cosplay is a bit... well... odd (to be polite about it). Especially, the 'full on' stuff. Don't give flying' fig if the tree men from Mars are doing it.
That said, if someone is making money from it (man or woman), I totally get it. Nothing wrong with a wallet extraction if people are dumb enough to go for it.
Quote from: ArrozConLeche;1051921What a shit show. I'm not surprised there is some overlap between RPGNet assholes and people on that thread:
https://boardgamegeek.com/article/29710194#29710194
https://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?832315-opinion-on-weird-request&p=22043786#post22043786
Major overlap. A post in a thread a few weeks ago calling for BGG to adopt RPGNet's mod policy got about 60 thumbs.
And you see the same shit on BGG now that we've seen on RPGNet: the tabletop gaming hobby is a horrorshow of misgyny and racism; women are routinely raped at conventions; tabletop gaming is not a safe hobby because of white men; anyone who expresses skepticism about these Truths is immediately denounced as one of the misogynists and sanctioned by mods.
I honestly wonder about those people. How many of them really, with the rational parts of their brains, believe tabletop gaming conventions are dangerous places rife with sexual predation and assault? Surely there can't be so many delusional people in the hobby. The cons I go to are about the most buttoned-down, sexually inert, polite, nerdy whitebread gatherings of people I ever see.
The capacity of a small number of bored, frustrated, in some cases mentally ill zealots to undermine the online discourse about an entire hobby with their toxic dogma is really dismaying.
Quote from: Cave Bear;1051934Certain people in this thread seem to be assuming that cosplayers are all chicks.
Nice sweeping generalization.
There is a world of difference between cosplayers like the 501st Legion (a noble group if there ever was one), Koltar (whose part-time Klingon appearances are done for charity) and Olga Levitskaya (who is trying to pass off some cyberpunk cosplay as breakthrough cybernetics research you can invest in).
Quote from: ArrozConLeche;1051921What a shit show. I'm not surprised there is some overlap between RPGNet assholes and people on that thread:
https://boardgamegeek.com/article/29710194#29710194
https://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?832315-opinion-on-weird-request&p=22043786#post22043786
Major overlap. A post in a thread a few weeks ago calling on BGG to adopt the same mod practices as RPGNet got about 60 thumbs. And in the last year or so BGG has seen the same shit peddled as you see on RPGNet: the tabletop gaming hobby is rife with racism and misogyny; women are routinely raped at conventions; the reason for the gender disparity in the hobby is brutal gatekeeping by men. Anyone who expresses skepticism about these orthodoxies is vilified and sanctioned by the mods.
It really is disheartening how a small number of extremely motivated, unhappy people can render the discourse about an entire hobby toxic with their dogma and pack tactics.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;1051891No it's not. It's his OPINION, that at last check was not an assault of any sort. She overreacted to a man who didn't like what she was doing in a hobby he loved. We do it here all the time.
His opinion was unsolicited.
Legitimate press outlets ask permission before going forward with an article or a video.
And no. I don't consider dirt sheets like the National Enquirer legitimate.
He didn't ask her permission. So it was harassment.
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1051954His opinion was unsolicited.
Legitimate press outlets ask permission before going forward with an article or a video.
And no. I don't consider dirt sheets like the National Enquirer legitimate.
He didn't ask her permission. So it was harassment.
Your opinion is also unsolicited. STOP HARASSING US!
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1051954His opinion was unsolicited.
Legitimate press outlets ask permission before going forward with an article or a video.
And no. I don't consider dirt sheets like the National Enquirer legitimate.
He didn't ask her permission. So it was harassment.
This has to be the dumbest fucking thing I've read on this site in a while.
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1051954His opinion was unsolicited.
Legitimate press outlets ask permission before going forward with an article or a video.
And no. I don't consider dirt sheets like the National Enquirer legitimate.
He didn't ask her permission. So it was harassment.
Bullshit. Legitimate press do not ask for permission before going forward with an article or video. Are you this fucking stupid?
Also he's not a journalist. He's a dude with a YouTube channel that was asked on a live chat what he thought and he said she isn't in the same hobby he is. He didn't harassing anybody your lying piece of shit.
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1051954Legitimate press outlets ask permission before going forward with an article or a video.
The fuck they do.
Quote from: Lurtch;1051959Bullshit. Legitimate press do not ask for permission before going forward with an article or video. Are you this fucking stupid?
Also he's not a journalist. He's a dude with a YouTube channel that was asked on a live chat what he thought and he said she isn't in the same hobby he is. He didn't harassing anybody your lying piece of shit.
You obviously have no experience in the media.
For photos and videos, the person whose likeness is being used has to grant their permission in writing. Otherwise, said media outlet isn't legally allowed to use it. That's how it works in the United States.
And yes. Hambly is considered an independant journalist by the very existance of his channel on Youtube.
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1051963You obviously have no experience in the media.
For photos and videos, the person whose likeness is being used has to grant their permission in writing. Otherwise, said media outlet isn't legally allowed to use it. That's how it works in the United States.
And yes. Hambly is considered an independant journalist by the very existance of his channel on Youtube.
Worked in media for five years.
You are partially correct but mostly full of shit.
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1051963You obviously have no experience in the media.
Based on your previous statement, neither do you
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1051963You obviously have no experience in the media.
For photos and videos, the person whose likeness is being used has to grant their permission in writing. Otherwise, said media outlet isn't legally allowed to use it. That's how it works in the United States.
And yes. Hambly is considered an independant journalist by the very existance of his channel on Youtube.
Reporting doesn't require any permissions at all, or else Roy Moore never would have been exposed. Or Bill Clinton, or Harvey Weinstein, etc.
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1051954His opinion was unsolicited.
Legitimate press outlets ask permission before going forward with an article or a video.
And no. I don't consider dirt sheets like the National Enquirer legitimate.
He didn't ask her permission. So it was harassment.
CNN, NBC, ABC, the New York times don't have, and likely never, to seek permission before publishing opinion pieces. Are you fucking for real?
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1051963You obviously have no experience in the media.
For photos and videos, the person whose likeness is being used has to grant their permission in writing. Otherwise, said media outlet isn't legally allowed to use it. That's how it works in the United States.
I used to be a reporter. That's not true in Canada, and I doubt it's true in the U.S. If you're an adult and out in public, I can take your picture and put it any news story I like, so long as it isn't libellous. The only exception is you can't use pictures of people in taken in bars.
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1051954His opinion was unsolicited.
Legitimate press outlets ask permission before going forward with an article or a video.
And no. I don't consider dirt sheets like the National Enquirer legitimate.
He didn't ask her permission. So it was harassment.
No. That's not what legitimate press does. WTF are you talking about? The press don't ask permission to write articles about people. They might ask for your comment (might), but one principle of journalism is the journalist is in control of what is published, not the person they're writing about. I don't even know where'd you even get that messed up impression of how journalism works.
And by the way I say this as someone who was a reporter for the largest comic news site in the world, and as an attorney who advised several other reporting companies, and I have several journalists for larger newspapers as friends to this day. You don't know what the heck you're talking about. MOST opinions you see in journalism of any kind is "unsolicited".
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1051963You obviously have no experience in the media.
For photos and videos, the person whose likeness is being used has to grant their permission in writing
Yes that's because of COPYRIGHT laws, and there is an explicite NEWS EXEMPTION for copyright (and for criticism and for commentary). Regardless, that is not the "opinion" we're talking about. Nobody made a copyright complaint about Jeremy Hambly the complaint is about his OPINION which has nothing to do with pictures of the cosplayer or video of the cosplayer.
QuoteOtherwise, said media outlet isn't legally allowed to use it. That's how it works in the United States.
Fair use in the United States includes all of:
commentary, search engines,
criticism, parody,
news reporting, research, and scholarship.
As an attorney, stfu about the law if you don't know what you're talking about.
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1051963You obviously have no experience in the media.
For photos and videos, the person whose likeness is being used has to grant their permission in writing. Otherwise, said media outlet isn't legally allowed to use it. That's how it works in the United States.
And yes. Hambly is considered an independant journalist by the very existance of his channel on Youtube.
Legally, the copyright of a photograph is owned by the photographer - and as long as the subject is in public, they are legally allowed to take pictures. Paparazzi are annoying and often unethical, but not inherently illegal. Television stations and newspapers often ask for permission to print pictures in order to preserve their reputation as being trustworthy to subjects in the future. However, they can legally run pictures without permission.
Taking too many pictures or intruding into private spaces to take pictures can be harassment, but there are a lot of factors that go into that.
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1051954His opinion was unsolicited.
Legitimate press outlets ask permission before going forward with an article or a video.
And no. I don't consider dirt sheets like the National Enquirer legitimate.
He didn't ask her permission. So it was harassment.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/sauYjWmJJ18xW/giphy.gif)
Quote from: tenbones;1051810What you're really acknowledging, AsenRG, is that people, empirically, are composed of a ginormous segment that happen to be idiots. They are the largest tribe on earth.
For some values of "idiots", I agree.
But where does that leave gamers:D?
Quote from: Lynn;1051820The law though is the moral expression of the voting public, so it is condemned by the voting public. The fact of life is that some people are either criminal, lack impulse control or think the consequences do not apply to them (or collectively, TenBone's 'idiots').
That is also why many USA states have 'stand your ground' laws and their jails accumulate the above. And that's okay.
Yeah, right, and that's also part of reality.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1051900I understand. There's the law of the court and the law of the streets.
Yes, that:). I'm glad at least someone understood it.
Quote from: Omega;1051854The fact GenCon is promoting a designer who walked off with 15 grand of backers money is nearly more onerous than the offsite attack. This is up there with Origins nominating or giving Zwiehander an award recently.
And WTF is the problem with Zweihander getting Ennies;)?
Quote from: Cave Bear;1051932What do we make of the fact that heterosexual, non-sjw men also cosplay?
Well, with that fact, some boiling water and a paper and 0,40 EU I could make a cup of tea;).
Which actually sounds like a good idea.
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1051954His opinion was unsolicited.
Legitimate press outlets ask permission before going forward with an article or a video.
And no. I don't consider dirt sheets like the National Enquirer legitimate.
He didn't ask her permission. So it was harassment.
Investigative journalism would not exist if the authors had to ask permission from whomever they're exposing.
If they're professionals, they'll ask for explanations / comments (i.e. give the "accused" a chance to defend) before going to press. But they will still publish.
Quote from: ArrozConLeche;1051921What a shit show. I'm not surprised there is some overlap between RPGNet assholes and people on that thread:
https://boardgamegeek.com/article/29710194#29710194
https://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?832315-opinion-on-weird-request&p=22043786#post22043786
Jesus its up to 20+ pages now. And yeah that poster is on my ignore list as hes done alot of nasty stuff and then gets awarded. Note that little post garnered him 33 likes and 10gg for regurgitating the same dam nigh cut-n-paste rhetoric. But then this is BGG where using a racial slur to refer to a type of board game is ok. But using the word Hysterical is misogynist.
Then theres this little bit from someone else a few pages over. Which drags RPGs into the conversation.
QuoteGame conventions have effectively always been war zones for women.
Now that a man is alleged to have been attacked the question is raised of whether to leave the women and children behind?
As for gaming being a place we leave gender, race, creed etc behind, that has not been my observation or experience. 30 years ago in chess club it was a question of female interlopers being told by the boys that girls couldn't play chess. And for newcomers to the club, they often weren't very good, at least yet - proof, am I right? And no organizer / supervisor spoke up.
Present day dungeons and dragons campaigns, female players who bring female characters have their characters hit on and harassed by male characters brought my male players (even if that behaviour doesn't move outside the game). And the (presumably male) dungeon master and other players don't speak up.
Kingmaking is done quite literally by male players in competitions blatantly enough at times that they are caught - no I won't google it for you, sorry.
Quote from: jeff37923;1051955Your opinion is also unsolicited. STOP HARASSING US!
Damn right! Pundit! Ban all these harassers!
Quote from: AsenRG;1051976For some values of "idiots", I agree.
But where does that leave gamers:D?.
You know? That's a much deeper question than the surface glance might imply. (or maybe it's just my biased view).
I was never the "nerd" in school but I did all the hardcore nerd stuff on my own away from the "cool kids" D&D among them. My D&D group was comprised of non-nerds I converted to play D&D so my experience with "gaming community" in the late 70's/early 80's was limited (mostly to protecting them from people picking on them. But play with them? Negative Ghostrider.) It wasn't until I left high-school and started running games at Con's where I really got exposed to the larger gaming populace and the insular weirdness of it all.
My current opinion is that it's the insular nerdzerkers now pretending in their own minds that their hobbies have gone mainstream have gone to their fucking heads. In a *bazillion* years I'd never have imagined some wannabe tatted up gaming-gangster would take themselves so seriously as to roll up on someone and physically attack them. Now those idiots have some secular religion that they have become True Believers(tm) in and act accordingly.
These are people that don't really understand real-life violence pretending they do. I don't hold Quartering to blame at all - I'm merely pointing out his attacker, if he keeps that shit up, he'll try it with the wrong person and hard lessons will be learned.
So - yeah. The sub-divisions of the Idiot Tribe are alive and well in our hobby.
Quote from: Luca;1051978Investigative journalism would not exist if the authors had to ask permission from whomever they're exposing.
If they're professionals, they'll ask for explanations / comments (i.e. give the "accused" a chance to defend) before going to press. But they will still publish.
"Excuse me President Nixon but this man calling himself Deep Throat and claiming to be an FBI insider has approached me about some potentially criminal activity you and your administration have been involved in. Would you kindly give me permission to investigate these claims and publish my findings? Pretty please with sugar on top?"
Well, I learned something today. Previously, I did not think it possible for someone to make a statement that would come anywhere near that close to unifying the responses here. Though Ratman's gif was my favorite. :)
Quote from: Brad;1051958This has to be the dumbest fucking thing I've read on this site in a while.
I've been biting my tongue save a couple quips, but damn if you aren’t correct! That was so ignorant it almost hurt my head.
Quote from: Steven Mitchell;1051988Well, I learned something today. Previously, I did not think it possible for someone to make a statement that would come anywhere near that close to unifying the responses here. Though Ratman's gif was my favorite. :)
I agree. I wish I could just hover that gif over my head when people say stupid shit.
Why watch television for entertainment when you can just read threads like this one instead? :p
Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;1051992I agree. I wish I could just hover that gif over my head when people say stupid shit.
Get one of those hats with the bobble post and affix the photo to it?
Quote from: Cave Bear;1051932What do we make of the fact that heterosexual, non-sjw men also cosplay?
Couple of years ago, at my local Comiccon, there was a guy who had built a Diablo costume, as in the video game series Diablo. Another managed to make VERY CLOSE TO SCALE Warhammer Ultramarine, right down to being over seven feet tall. And when I asked why? They liked making costumes, it was a puzzle for them to solve, they didn't want to be in the media industry, this was a passion, just a hobby.
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1051938Yep. We're talking about female cosplayers because of the sex-based social dynamics in the geek community.
They are also the biggest group of gropers I've ever seen. Female cosplayers and women in general will grope, fondle and squeeze boldly both male and female cosplayers. And that's OK. But if a man were to touch on the shoulder a female cosplayer? Out of the con he goes.
It's also why I refuse to take pictures with cosplayers of either genders of late.
Quote from: tenbones;1051983I'm merely pointing out his attacker, if he keeps that shit up, he'll try it with the wrong person and hard lessons will be learned.
Nice comeuppance fantasy, but I'm pretty sure that even in the damaged brainstem of this thug there are enough neurons devoted to "select only milquetoast geeks to sucker punch".
Quote from: Christopher Brady;1051997Couple of years ago, at my local Comiccon, there was a guy who had built a Diablo costume, as in the video game series Diablo. Another managed to make VERY CLOSE TO SCALE Warhammer Ultramarine, right down to being over seven feet tall. And when I asked why? They liked making costumes, it was a puzzle for them to solve, they didn't want to be in the media industry, this was a passion, just a hobby.
They are also the biggest group of gropers I've ever seen. Female cosplayers and women in general will grope, fondle and squeeze boldly both male and female cosplayers. And that's OK. But if a man were to touch on the shoulder a female cosplayer? Out of the con he goes.
It's also why I refuse to take pictures with cosplayers of either genders of late.
Something something institutional, something something sexism.
Quote from: Warboss Squee;1052009Something something institutional, something something sexism.
Let us know when you have something meaningful to contribute.
Quote from: Omega;1052010Let us know when you have something meaningful to contribute.
Well we can solve the dispute easily enough. Just have all the many female RPGers / cosplayers that feel comfortable frequenting the RPGsite to speak up in support of Brady's posts.
Quote from: Motorskills;1052014Well we can solve the dispute easily enough. Just have all the many female RPGers / cosplayers that feel comfortable frequenting the RPGsite to speak up in support of Brady's posts.
As opposed to the many that frequent all the other RPG forums out there?
Quote from: Orphan81;1052015As opposed to the many that frequent all the other RPG forums out there?
Pundit should moderate away our toxic masculinity so women will feel safe enough to post here. Worked for
other sites (https://sadtrombone.com/).
Quote from: jeff37923;1051941Nice sweeping generalization.
There is a world of difference between cosplayers like the 501st Legion (a noble group if there ever was one), Koltar (whose part-time Klingon appearances are done for charity) and Olga Levitskaya (who is trying to pass off some cyberpunk cosplay as breakthrough cybernetics research you can invest in).
Feels weird Jeff defending or sticking up for me - but its very cool.
I am just old enough that when I started wearing costumes no one was using the word 'cosplay' - heck the group I belonged referred to our outfits as uniforms. With that group it was sort of expected that more than 60% of the year we would be trying our best to help out charities at events.
Later on, after I had more than one Klingon outfit others in the group I was hanging out with made it clear that in their minds two of my outfits were 'costumes' and one was my regular uniform. The two costumes were my "Klingon Santa" outfit (Vav QISmaS) and my Klingon clergy or magistrate garb for when I officiated at Klingon weddings. (Yes, that happened at least three times)
In the early 2000s there were plenty of young women in costume at Gen Con - no one was using the word 'cosplay' (not yet at least). Maybe a third of them were known as 'Booth Babes' and some were proud of that nickname. Most of them actually knew the games very well and could demo the hell out of them. The most well-known for a while was 'Chainmail Bikini Girl' - I was at her wedding as the token Klingon. She still goes to Gen Con and runs a T-shirt booth there every year. The other 'booth babe' I became friends with was known as 'Con Kitty' because she would user bodypaint to make herself look like a walking tiger woman whilst wearing leather pants and a chainmail bikini top. These days she shows uip at Gen Con and portrays Carmen Sandiego as her preferred costume or bit of fun.
WTF = How in the heck did the 'cosplay' tangent get started in the first place in a thread about an assault or bar fight at Gen Con?
Just wondering....
- Ed C.
Quote from: Koltar;1052020WTF = How in the heck did the 'cosplay' tangent get started in the first place in a thread about an assault or bar fight at Gen Con?
Just wondering....
- Ed C.
Hormones
Quote from: Orphan81;1052015As opposed to the many that frequent all the other RPG forums out there?
Probably, yeah?
Certainly TBP has a decent number.
But let's use real numbers. @Koltar can back me up here, I would think. I estimate approximately somewhere between 10 and 30% of attendees at Gen Con were women. I saw quite a few female GMs but only had one myself.
My RPGs were:
1 x Delta Green 2017 hybrid (3/7 women)
1 x Delta Green 2017 straight (0/7 women)
1 x SandalPunk (2/7 women)
1 x Fall of Delta Green (1/7 women)
1 x Cypher system (3/5 women, plus female GM)
1 CoC 7e (4/6 women)
1 x Gumshoe Hybrid (2/7 women)
1 x Dark Eye (1/5 Woman)
I think those are pretty typical numbers, based on what I saw, running from event to event.
I saw a lot of cosplayers, but that was more a factor of headcount than percentage, maybe 1/50?
I don't recall seeing any that were provocatively dressed, they all seemed to be dressing for themselves to have fun. More power to them.
Well I am biased or slanted in how many women I saw there - because the Pathfinder society regional coordinator seems to run things out of our store - and seems to groom or train many other young women to be GMs of Pathfinder and Starfinder. ("Young" as in 23 to 38 years old age range).
I saw many familiar faces from my hometown store there. Heck at one of the booths I met a new publisher who said she created a game setting because she was sick of people saying that 'girls don't play D&D'.
By-the-way, the characters of Rey and Jyn Erso in the recent Star Wars movies seems to have encouraged more women and girls to dress up as action oriented characters at Gen Con. The number of 'sexy elvish princesses' and 'sexy evil queens' has significantly decreased compared to 10 or 12 years ago.
- Ed C.
Quote from: Koltar;1052020WTF = How in the heck did the 'cosplay' tangent get started in the first place in a thread about an assault or bar fight at Gen Con?
Just wondering....
- Ed C.
Cliff notes: The person claiming to be assaulted (Hambly) made some (one?) video critical of a Magic, The Gathering cosplayer. (Christie Sprankles) He was subsequently banned from the MTG community, including official events, for claimed harassment of said cosplayer, via the aforementioned video comments. This series of events was a point of contention for the MTG community, and made Hambly a minor internet e-celebrity.
Quote from: Koltar;1052020Feels weird Jeff defending or sticking up for me - but its very cool.
- Ed C.
I give you shit out of an abundance of brotherly love. :D
Quote from: Omega;1052010Let us know when you have something meaningful to contribute.
Context, Omega.
Quote from: Motorskills;1052023Probably, yeah?
Certainly TBP has a decent number.
By some reports, the number of women driven off by RPG.net's moderation policies is not zero.
Quote from: Koltar;1052024By-the-way, the characters of Rey and Jyn Erso in the recent Star Wars movies seems to have encouraged more women and girls to dress up as action oriented characters at Gen Con. The number of 'sexy elvish princesses' and 'sexy evil queens' has significantly decreased compared to 10 or 12 years ago.
- Ed C.
I'd agree with that, and argue that it is fantastic development. Those two alone are real characters with significant depth of personality, I'm not surprised they have caught on.
There were a bunch of other female cosplayed characters that I saw that appeared to have...heft(?), but I mostly had no idea who they were.
@koltar - as for the rest, you'd agree that just walking around, there was a significant minority of women at Gen Con, maybe 25%?
Quote from: Motorskills;1052023Probably, yeah?
Certainly TBP has a decent number.
But let's use real numbers. @Koltar can back me up here, I would think. I estimate approximately somewhere between 10 and 30% of attendees at Gen Con were women. I saw quite a few female GMs but only had one myself.
My RPGs were:
1 x Delta Green 2017 hybrid (3/7 women)
1 x Delta Green 2017 straight (0/7 women)
1 x SandalPunk (2/7 women)
1 x Fall of Delta Green (1/7 women)
1 x Cypher system (3/5 women, plus female GM)
1 CoC 7e (4/6 women)
1 x Gumshoe Hybrid (2/7 women)
1 x Dark Eye (1/5 Woman)
I think those are pretty typical numbers, based on what I saw, running from event to event.
I saw a lot of cosplayers, but that was more a factor of headcount than percentage, maybe 1/50?
I don't recall seeing any that were provocatively dressed, they all seemed to be dressing for themselves to have fun. More power to them.
Notice I didn't say as opposed to female gamers in general... I spoke of the ones who visit rpg forums... which is a small number in the first place. The big purple is the largest rpg forum on the internet, and even it's number of regular female users was still a small percentage compared to the male users... I'm sure it's different now, but that's because it's usage in general is much smaller than it was during it's height.
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1052028By some reports, the number of women driven off by RPG.net's moderation policies is not zero.
If that were true, TBP wouldn't be the staunch defenders of womankind in gaming, and we all know that's not the case.
Quote from: Omega;1051994Get one of those hats with the bobble post and affix the photo to it?
I just might, Mr. Good Idea!
Quote from: tenbones;1051983In a *bazillion* years I'd never have imagined some wannabe tatted up gaming-gangster would take themselves so seriously as to roll up on someone and physically attack them.
Doesn't surprise me much.
I DM'd cons in the early 80s and I saw teenagers freak the fuck out over a PC dying and make it physical.
We had the occasionally fight in our high school gaming club too. We banned Diplomacy because of guys throwing down.
Back then, I chocked it up to teenage hormones and males dealing with competition. AKA, we were gonna wail on each other over something, thus anything became an excuse.
However, Jackass McFuckstick isn't a teenager anymore, but maybe he's a steroid junkie high on his own virtue fumes. I've seen older gym bros lose their shit over sports team nonsense so its not shocking some males would lose their sense over something equally meaningless like politics.
Quote from: Koltar;1052020The two costumes were my "Klingon Santa" outfit (Vav QISmaS) and my Klingon clergy or magistrate garb for when I officiated at Klingon weddings.
Post pics please!!
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1051954His opinion was unsolicited.
Legitimate press outlets ask permission before going forward with an article or a video.
And no. I don't consider dirt sheets like the National Enquirer legitimate.
He didn't ask her permission. So it was harassment.
Do you think I asked
permission before I did movie reviews for a newspaper? That's may be most idiotic thing anyone has said on this thread. What she did was a
performance and everyone has a right to review a performance. Claiming that she was a professional means that reviewers didn't even owe her the kindness that one owes to an amateur.
Quote from: The_Shadow;1052002Nice comeuppance fantasy, but I'm pretty sure that even in the damaged brainstem of this thug there are enough neurons devoted to "select only milquetoast geeks to sucker punch".
Mebbe, mebbe not. He's a martial arts instructor and he thinks he's pretty bad. He was always pleasant to me in his store but I was a customer.
Quote from: Motorskills;1052023Probably, yeah?
Certainly TBP has a decent number.
Son...
those ain't women.
More calls for increased violence against Hambly. (http://boundingintocomics.com/2018/08/07/comic-crusaders-writer-advocates-increased-violence-in-wake-of-the-quarterings-attack-at-gen-con/)
Quote from: jeff37923;1052053More calls for increased violence against Hambly. (http://boundingintocomics.com/2018/08/07/comic-crusaders-writer-advocates-increased-violence-in-wake-of-the-quarterings-attack-at-gen-con/)
FFS!
Leaving aside the morality of that for a moment...has it worked? Has being punched actually silenced the guy? Or if the goal was to silence him, has it backfired badly and generated massive publicity for him?
From the basic standpoint of actually achieving your goals it should be obvious that it's a stupid move.
Quote from: TJS;1052055FFS!
Leaving aside the morality of that for a moment...has it worked? Has being punched actually silenced the guy? Or if the goal was to silence him, has it backfired badly and generated massive publicity for him?
From the basic standpoint of actually achieving your goals it should be obvious that it's a stupid move.
I think they idea is that enough people go after him, somebody will finish the job.
Personally, I wish them good luck, because once words get thrown out, these idiots are screwed. Calls to incite violence are a crime, and given that people love to collude, you might even get a conspiracy charge in there as well.
Hopefully, this Hambly won't wimp out and just make whiny videos. He needs to use the law for unrelenting counterattack against his attacker and anyone calling for harming him.
None of this SJW nonsense changes until a legal deterrent is brought to bear. Political violence (of any stripe, now and always) must be put down by legal means.
BTW, type GenCon into Google News and check out page 1.
Quote from: WillInNewHaven;1052048Mebbe, mebbe not. He's a martial arts instructor and he thinks he's pretty bad. He was always pleasant to me in his store but I was a customer.
That's even more cowardly. He could have stayed there and fought, but he ran away like a spineless mofo.
Quote from: WillInNewHaven;1052048Mebbe, mebbe not. He's a martial arts instructor and he thinks he's pretty bad. He was always pleasant to me in his store but I was a customer.
Is it wrong that this part angers me more than anything else? As someone who trained in martial arts for a significant portion of my life, we were always taught that violence was a last resort. Deescalate, disengage, then if nothing else works, destroy. A student would be bad enough, but an instructor? His school should be blacklisted. If his students had any moral bearing at all, they'd walk out the door upon learning their teacher assaulted without provocation someone who was not threatening him.
That is, of course, assuming the event in question actually happened. Seriously sounds like it did though. Has anybody even tangentially related to the incident denied it occurring?
Quote from: Broken Twin;1052093Is it wrong that this part angers me more than anything else? As someone who trained in martial arts for a significant portion of my life, we were always taught that violence was a last resort. Deescalate, disengage, then if nothing else works, destroy. A student would be bad enough, but an instructor? His school should be blacklisted. If his students had any moral bearing at all, they'd walk out the door upon learning their teacher assaulted without provocation someone who was not threatening him.
Maybe he runs the Cobra Kai school.
To be clear on my stance here: if it actually happened, the accused should charged. Assaulting someone with zero provocation is never okay. If it didn't, and the accuser is lying, then he's scum who's deliberately attempting to ruin someone's reputation for profit.
Either way, I know none of the people involved, and honestly don't really care beyond my usual enjoyment of reading clickbait outrage.
Quote from: Dimitrios;1052096Maybe he runs the Cobra Kai school.
[tangent] The Cobra Kai series is really good at showing Johnny Lawrence's perspective on the school's rules and attitude. Highly reccomend.
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1052103[tangent] The Cobra Kai series is really good at showing Johnny Lawrence's perspective on the school's rules and attitude. Highly reccomend.
:eek: I just googled this. I had no idea it existed. I guess reprising characters from 30+ years ago isn't just for the
Star Wars cast anymore.
Quote from: Motorskills;1052030I'd agree with that, and argue that it is fantastic development. Those two alone are real characters with significant depth of personality, I'm not surprised they have caught on.
I liked Rogue One, but I don't think either Jyn or especially Rey were terribly well fleshed out. On the other hand, I've loved seeing Ahsoka Tano, Hera Syndulla, and Sabine Wren getting love from the fans and cosplayers.
Quote from: The_Shadow;1052002Nice comeuppance fantasy, but I'm pretty sure that even in the damaged brainstem of this thug there are enough neurons devoted to "select only milquetoast geeks to sucker punch".
I'm just speaking from practical experience. I agree with you that he chose Quartering exactly as you described - but it's a really dumb assumption (though it paid off - he got his sucker-punch in) on his part. Who knows? Quartering could have been armed, or something along those lines. Having lived in bad neighborhoods in LA my whole life and now living in a very firearm-friendly TX for the last 20-years... it's cheap, useful wisdom.
But you know, I'm a believer that people can/will/do repeat their behavior - both good and bad. People that are bad at it, don't know the difference due to being poor at self-awareness. It'll catch up with you eventually. One way or the other.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1052040Doesn't surprise me much.
I DM'd cons in the early 80s and I saw teenagers freak the fuck out over a PC dying and make it physical.
We had the occasionally fight in our high school gaming club too. We banned Diplomacy because of guys throwing down.
Sweet Galactus! I've SEEN this at a Con. In fact it was the first time I'd ever seen grown men fight over a game - Diplomacy! Even among my friends, back in the day - we were all super-competitive, Diplomacy caused real feuds at our table (if only for the night). That's hilarious, I'd forgotten about all that.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1052040Back then, I chocked it up to teenage hormones and males dealing with competition. AKA, we were gonna wail on each other over something, thus anything became an excuse.
However, Jackass McFuckstick isn't a teenager anymore, but maybe he's a steroid junkie high on his own virtue fumes. I've seen older gym bros lose their shit over sports team nonsense so its not shocking some males would lose their sense over something equally meaningless like politics
Yep. He's got a rude-awakening coming at some point.
Quote from: Warboss Squee;1052027Context, Omega.
Let us know when you find that too.
Quote from: Broken Twin;1052099To be clear on my stance here: if it actually happened, the accused should charged. Assaulting someone with zero provocation is never okay. If it didn't, and the accuser is lying, then he's scum who's deliberately attempting to ruin someone's reputation for profit.
Jesus didnt you read any of the threads on this?
A police report has been filed.
Witnesses both confirm the attack happened and IDed the attacker, who was unknown to the victim.
Quote from: Dimitrios;1052105:eek: I just googled this. I had no idea it existed. I guess reprising characters from 30+ years ago isn't just for the Star Wars cast anymore.
Only "Cobra Kai" does it
incredibly well.
Quote from: tenbones;1052113Sweet Galactus! I've SEEN this at a Con. In fact it was the first time I'd ever seen grown men fight over a game - Diplomacy! Even among my friends, back in the day - we were all super-competitive, Diplomacy caused real feuds at our table (if only for the night). That's hilarious, I'd forgotten about all that.
Yeah there was a thread over on BGG way back about board gaming where things either nearly, or did get hostile and Diplomacy came up alot.
I've heard a lot of second hand evidence, none of which I can personally verify is true. A police report being filed doesn't necessarily mean a crime happened, just that a report was filed. Especially with some people claiming a discrepancy between when the victim said he filed the report and when the report was filed.
I've got zero skin in this game, so I've got no real reason to care one way or another about something that happened in another country that will probably never affect me. The only reason I commented in the first place is because the idea of a martial arts instructor going around assaulting people bothers me on a personal level.
If it is a valid police report with multiple people that can provide eyewitness testimony, then the accused will be arrested for assault. There's zero point in me joining either side's crusade in the meantime.
And yet you feel compelled to come here and insinuate it didnt happen.
Quote from: Omega;1052127Let us know when you find that too.
Hmm. Someone posts about the handiest people in regards to cosplayers being women and that male cosplayers get groped a ton, so I make a joke about institutional sexism and you don't get the context?
I thought you were smarter than that, you daft bastard.
I specifically said it probably did happen. How bad is your reading comprehension? I posted because a part came up that was relevant to me (martial arts), then posted again to clarify that I didn't feel the need to pick sides while the people whose job it is to verify what happened did their jobs.
Which you seem to REALLY take offense to.
Quote from: WillInNewHaven;1052048Mebbe, mebbe not. He's a martial arts instructor and he thinks he's pretty bad. He was always pleasant to me in his store but I was a customer.
Quote from: Broken Twin;1052093Is it wrong that this part angers me more than anything else? As someone who trained in martial arts for a significant portion of my life, we were always taught that violence was a last resort. Deescalate, disengage, then if nothing else works, destroy. A student would be bad enough, but an instructor? His school should be blacklisted. If his students had any moral bearing at all, they'd walk out the door upon learning their teacher assaulted without provocation someone who was not threatening him.
That is, of course, assuming the event in question actually happened. Seriously sounds like it did though. Has anybody even tangentially related to the incident denied it occurring?
Yeah, that's doubly bothersome to me, for the reasons you mentioned. This is breaking one's code of honor to use an advantage upon others for harm -- which makes his sucker punching, and gloating about it, even more disgraceful. And to be an instructor?!
This is a bad example for civil behavior and the use of power. Charges should be pressed. What was done was not moral or civil.
Quote from: Omega;1052127Let us know when you find that too.
Baby dear, your humor antenna is on the fritz. :) His joke made sense in context. I'm sure the rapidity of this topic doesn't help for clarity, but you can stop doubling down now. -- with love, opaopajr :p
Quote from: Warboss Squee;1052148Hmm. Someone posts about the handiest people in regards to cosplayers being women and that male cosplayers get groped a ton, so I make a joke about institutional sexism and you don't get the context?
I thought you were smarter than that, you daft bastard.
I'd chalk it up to crossed streams in a rapid flowing topic. A lot of people got revved up from this news. I did too, from disappointment of human nature not taking a chill pill, but getting physical instead. However, I expect "friendly fire" words from such resultant heightened thinking and feeling.
Please pause before you act, people. :) We have a civil society to process things before they get too ugly. Vigilatism only supports the worst of our nature. Feed the right wolf. :)
Quote from: Opaopajr;1052155Yeah, that's doubly bothersome to me, for the reasons you mentioned. This is breaking one's code of honor to use an advantage upon others for harm -- which makes his sucker punching, and gloating about it, even more disgraceful. And to be an instructor?!
This is a bad example for civil behavior and the use of power. Charges should be pressed. What was done was not moral or civil.
Baby dear, your humor antenna is on the fritz. :) His joke made sense in context. I'm sure the rapidity of this topic doesn't help for clarity, but you can stop doubling down now. -- with love, opaopajr :p
I'd chalk it up to crossed streams in a rapid flowing topic. A lot of people got revved up from this news. I did too, from disappointment of human nature not taking a chill pill, but getting physical instead. However, I expect "friendly fire" words from such resultant heightened thinking and feeling.
Please pause before you act, people. :) We have a civil society to process things before they get too ugly. Vigilatism only supports the worst of our nature. Feed the right wolf. :)
I'm fairly unrevved on this one. This entire thing is more humorous than infuriating. It sucks that Jeremy got attacked, but the fact that the nutty lefties are acting like this is how the world needs to work is gold, because the normies are on the verge of pulling a Scooby Gang and peeling the mask off the monster.
Quote from: Mistwell;1051738Things we know:
1) There is an incident report in the Indianapolis data base. The details are not available but his name comes up as having an incident report. You can check it here (https://pay.indy.gov/incident_reports/search).
2) There was also a green dot indicating police reported incident at the bar in question on the night in question.
3) There is at least one witness statement on Twitter.
4) There was video of at least one witness on YouTube.
5) He likely pulled his YouTube videos on advice from the attorney he just hired. [Edit - I see he has a video back up now]
I think assuming this is a hoax is probably unwise at this point.
Quote from: Omega;1052130Jesus didnt you read any of the threads on this?
A police report has been filed.
Witnesses both confirm the attack happened and IDed the attacker, who was unknown to the victim.
I'm coming into this late. The main source that I've seen in this thread was the IndyStar story linked below.
https://www.indystar.com/story/news/crime/2018/08/03/gen-con-indianapolis-gaming-commentator-conservative-views-punched/896816002/
I went to Mistwell's link, but the database didn't give me any information when I searched on "Jeremy Hambly". Still, the news story does quote a police report. It doesn't say the source of the statements, though. The story does mention a witness speaking on his YouTube channel, but doesn't name or quote them.
Is there a text summary of the facts somewhere? Are there multiple witnesses? If so, who are they and how do their accounts compare?
Quote from: Opaopajr;1052155Yeah, that's doubly bothersome to me, for the reasons you mentioned. This is breaking one's code of honor to use an advantage upon others for harm -- which makes his sucker punching, and gloating about it, even more disgraceful. And to be an instructor?!
This is a bad example for civil behavior and the use of power. Charges should be pressed. What was done was not moral or civil.
Yeah. I mean, I know there's McDojos everywhere, but every school I've trained at emphasized that if you were ever caught picking fights, you would be immediately banned from the practice. The thought of an instructor doing so is galling. This is probably my bias showing through, but I bet he teaches sport style, and not combat style. In my experience, combat style practitioners are much less gloaty, since they're well aware that one bout of bad luck can really fuck you up.
Quote from: Warboss Squee;1052156I'm fairly unrevved on this one. This entire thing is more humorous than infuriating. It sucks that Jeremy got attacked, but the fact that the nutty lefties are acting like this is how the world needs to work is gold, because the normies are on the verge of pulling a Scooby Gang and peeling the mask off the monster.
I can understand (but not agree with) the people who see this event as someone awful getting their just comeuppance. But the people advocating repeat performances just strike me as the type that never leave their echo chambers. Yeah, I'd take a grim satisfaction in seeing some of the people I disagree with getting sucker punched. But it wouldn't solve any of the issues I have with those people. Most, it would probably just make worse. They really need to realise that they're advocating for might makes right, and in that situation, it's not the nice people at the top of the food chain.
Quote from: Omega;1051854The fact GenCon is promoting a designer who walked off with 15 grand of backers money is nearly more onerous than the offsite attack. This is up there with Origins nominating or giving Zwiehander an award recently.
I laughed, but seriously, none of these are as onerous as the attack.
Which is saying something :D
Quote from: Xyxox;1051856I've basically given up here because there is no discussing anything with GGers.
#Winning
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1051869Unwelcome commentary. He made her feel uncomfortabe. And yes, that is good enough of a claim for her to have made.
Being able to make unwelcome commentary is the whole reason we have free speech laws in the first place!
Quote from: Koltar;1051886So truthfully "Gencon" doesn't have to comment on it at all.
They do if they have any interest in enforcing their own code of conduct. Unless of course they claim it doesn't apply to offsite behavior, which would be a nice change of pace from the companies which do.
Quote from: WillInNewHaven;1051896Oh, it is being discussed over on TPG in the tangency area, if by discussion you mean falling all over themselves agreeing with the line and moderators swarming all over anyone who disagrees. I may or may not be banned but I'm not going back to find out.
Is someone willing to? As I'd like to know for my own safety.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;1051997They are also the biggest group of gropers I've ever seen. Female cosplayers and women in general will grope, fondle and squeeze boldly both male and female cosplayers. And that's OK. But if a man were to touch on the shoulder a female cosplayer? Out of the con he goes.
It's complicated.
Quote from: jeff37923;1052053More calls for increased violence against Hambly. (http://boundingintocomics.com/2018/08/07/comic-crusaders-writer-advocates-increased-violence-in-wake-of-the-quarterings-attack-at-gen-con/)
And the article in question has been removed (http://archive.is/3l90e), only to be replaced by
two articles which condemn the assault:
"Guest of Honor" supporter Assaults Attendee (https://archive.is/2SmWa)
GenCon Promoting a Thugs Game (https://www.comiccrusaders.com/gencon-promoting-a-thugs-game/)
Quote from: tenbones;1052113Sweet Galactus! I've SEEN this at a Con. In fact it was the first time I'd ever seen grown men fight over a game - Diplomacy! Even among my friends, back in the day - we were all super-competitive, Diplomacy caused real feuds at our table (if only for the night). That's hilarious, I'd forgotten about all that.
Interesting.
I wonder what political agenda the left thinks that's pushing.
Today, Jeremy posted part of an interview where the attacker is talking about the time at Gen Con 2004 where he "punched that guy". So, he's done this thing before.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_Mkl_sbCZI&t=115s
The relevant part is at 1:34
The interviewer is with Dice Tower and I'm trying to track the original down.
Quote from: Broken Twin;1052137There's zero point in me joining either side's crusade in the meantime.
I agree. My take is that unless Hambly goes full court press for justice against Jackass McFuckstick, it doesn't even matter that the attack happened.
In fact, then my bile would turn on Hambly because if this SJW shitstain gets away with assault, then you can bet on lots more political violence at GenCon 2019 and beyond.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1052219I agree. My take is that unless Hambly goes full court press for justice against Jackass McFuckstick, it doesn't even matter that the attack happened.
In fact, then my bile would turn on Hambly because if this SJW shitstain gets away with assault, then you can bet on lots more political violence at GenCon 2019 and beyond.
He's not. His video of late are of him talking about the after effects, also that he's pursuing a criminal litigation and potential civil one as well. However, it seems he's being stymied because of his appearance and his politics.
Quote from: WillInNewHaven;1052048Mebbe, mebbe not. He's a martial arts instructor and he thinks he's pretty bad. He was always pleasant to me in his store but I was a customer.
Man, I have to say, for a supposed 'martial arts instructor' he sure sucked ass. The dude attacked a guy by surprise, who didn't fight back, and only gave him a couple of light bruises and scratches; the worst injury he apparently did was skin-burn from tearing at the guy's shirt like a pussy.
At the same time, all these assholes giving Hambly a hard time for not being a secret ninja are dumbasses. Hambly did exactly the right thing under the circumstances; he didn't try to fight back, he withdrew. Even if Hambly was some kind of badass karate master, he was taken by surprise (his one real mistake was sitting in a position where he was vulnerable to that type of surprise attack) and probably off-balance, and he had no way of knowing if there weren't 3 more of these antifa-terrorists ready to beat him to death with bike locks. Had he tried to punch back, it not only would have been much riskier for him, but it also would have turned a clear case of assault into a "bar fight" and made it much hard to hit this fucking cunt where it will REALLY hurt: his wallet.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1052239Man, I have to say, for a supposed 'martial arts instructor' he sure sucked ass. The dude attacked a guy by surprise, who didn't fight back, and only gave him a couple of light bruises and scratches; the worst injury he apparently did was skin-burn from tearing at the guy's shirt like a pussy.
At the same time, all these assholes giving Hambly a hard time for not being a secret ninja are dumbasses. Hambly did exactly the right thing under the circumstances; he didn't try to fight back, he withdrew. Even if Hambly was some kind of badass karate master, he was taken by surprise (his one real mistake was sitting in a position where he was vulnerable to that type of surprise attack) and probably off-balance, and he had no way of knowing if there weren't 3 more of these antifa-terrorists ready to beat him to death with bike locks. Had he tried to punch back, it not only would have been much riskier for him, but it also would have turned a clear case of assault into a "bar fight" and made it much hard to hit this fucking cunt where it will REALLY hurt: his wallet.
He had also stated he had been drinking for awhile before the assault. So even if he was trained, being drunk would have affected his ability to use any training.
Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1052178Is someone willing to? As I'd like to know for my own safety.
.
Willing to..? What exactly do you want to know?
Quote from: RPGPundit;1052239Man, I have to say, for a supposed 'martial arts instructor' he sure sucked ass. The dude attacked a guy by surprise, who didn't fight back, and only gave him a couple of light bruises and scratches; the worst injury he apparently did was skin-burn from tearing at the guy's shirt like a pussy.
At the same time, all these assholes giving Hambly a hard time for not being a secret ninja are dumbasses. Hambly did exactly the right thing under the circumstances; he didn't try to fight back, he withdrew. Even if Hambly was some kind of badass karate master, he was taken by surprise (his one real mistake was sitting in a position where he was vulnerable to that type of surprise attack) and probably off-balance, and he had no way of knowing if there weren't 3 more of these antifa-terrorists ready to beat him to death with bike locks. Had he tried to punch back, it not only would have been much riskier for him, but it also would have turned a clear case of assault into a "bar fight" and made it much hard to hit this fucking cunt where it will REALLY hurt: his wallet.
I was thinking that too... He apparently had 5 punches on Jeremy and managed to do... well... nothing. Which tells me he's not hitting heavy bags. Because people who do, can inflict massive amounts of damage. And Jeremy did the right thing to flee and call the Police.
The first thing we tell our students is:
1) Don't be there in the first place - But unfortunately bad people like to go to good places.
2) Always be 'aware' of any possible threats - And that they could be carrying a weapon and have mates.
3) GTFO before it develops and always trust your gut - Ideal, but not always possible. You could be on a subway as an example.
4) If you can't escape, 'deescalate' (and control you space) - However, some people can't be reasoned with, or you just won't have time before an immanent attack.
5) If you are in 'genuine fear' for you life, then attack first and continue attacking until the threat is down. Do not punish... Just use reasonable force to escape.
6) Evacuate - Make sure you write an account of what happened. As the effects of adrenaline can make things murky later.
It takes many steps to get to step 5!
Quote from: urbwar;1052242He had also stated he had been drinking for awhile before the assault. So even if he was trained, being drunk would have affected his ability to use any training.
Absolutely... This will have a significant effect.
Maybe he didn't want to use his dim-mak technique . Reallly, most likely the intent wasn't to knock the guy out cold. Still cowardly to sucker punch someone who isn't an imminent physical threat.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1052239Man, I have to say, for a supposed 'martial arts instructor' he sure sucked ass. The dude attacked a guy by surprise, who didn't fight back, and only gave him a couple of light bruises and scratches; the worst injury he apparently did was skin-burn from tearing at the guy's shirt like a pussy.
Actually Hambly has a bloody eye where the creep hit him in the face and broke his glasses and damaged his eye. The eye damage part could have been damn serious.
Quote from: ArrozConLeche;1052257Maybe he didn't want to use his dim-mak technique . Reallly, most likely the intent wasn't to knock the guy out cold. Still cowardly to sucker punch someone who isn't an imminent physical threat.
He hit him hard enough to break Hambleys glasses and burst blood vessels in one of his eyes.
I don't know who either of these guys are (just learning about them both) but if he had a concussion, you wouldn't see that (and in a video someone linked, it appeared to me he may well have had a concussion---though not having seen him before, I am not a good judge of his normal facial expression). On the topic of punching. I am not particularly concerned about how good or bad the attacker was at martial arts. But I can say, heavy bag training, while it improves power, doesn't teach you how to knock a person out. People often look great on a heavy bag, great on drills, but sparring is where you really learn how to implement that stuff. And knocking out a person isn't easy, even if you are good. That is a very difficult thing to do and even against someone surprised, they are going to move their head, even naturally cage up. Some people are better at taking punches than other people. If there is a difference in size between the attacker and defender, that also will affect things. If he was just angry and throwing wild punches, he might not have even been trying to knock him out. Bottom line though is, punching someone on a paved or wood surface is not a good idea (punching a person anywhere isn't a good idea in my opinion). If a person gets knocked out standing and then collapses on the ground, that second impact can do tremendous damage to the brain if the circumstances are right. The chances of killing a person are narrow but not zero. Either way, this stuff seems like a police matter to me. It is still illegal to assault people. If he was attacked, he can press charges.
Edit: Conditioning also matters. A person can be trained for years in martial arts. But if they are not in good shape, or don't train regularly anymore, they won't be especially effective. I had to stop training about 8 years ago for health reasons and would probably run out of breath in the first ten seconds if I tried to spar.
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1051963You obviously have no experience in the media.
For photos and videos, the person whose likeness is being used has to grant their permission in writing. Otherwise, said media outlet isn't legally allowed to use it. That's how it works in the United States.
And yes. Hambly is considered an independant journalist by the very existance of his channel on Youtube.
You are really stupid. What you said isn't true at all. What country do you live in? He didn't harass her. Harassment has a legal definition. Nothing he did would fall under it. He said he dind't think cosplayers were part of the hobby and he said too many of them are only doing it to collect money from thirsty nerds. That isn't harassment. That isn't slander. He used one of her photos and she issued a copyright strike against him. That's all that happened. No harassment.
Stop making shit up. The guy is a jerk. The guy is a troll. He didn't do what you're saying he did.
Having a YouTube channel != journalist. Moron.
Quote from: Omega;1052260He hit him hard enough to break Hambleys glasses and burst blood vessels in one of his eyes.
His glasses were not broken per se but scratched (according to Jeremly's latest vid).
However, if it had been a sustained attack, it could have been much worse for Jeremy. I mean, from the evidence, the attacker definitely wanted to hurt him badly. It wasn't a case of just delivering one or two digs and then just leaving. So luckily he couldn't get into the pub. I really hope they throw the book at the guy.
And interestingly enough, it looks like the mental midget attacker has done it before at another GenCon. Well, that is to say, Jeremy has a vid of him admitting to punching another chap a few years ago during an interview. Worth a watch!
Quote from: RPGPundit;1052239Man, I have to say, for a supposed 'martial arts instructor' he sure sucked ass. The dude attacked a guy by surprise, who didn't fight back, and only gave him a couple of light bruises and scratches; the worst injury he apparently did was skin-burn from tearing at the guy's shirt like a pussy.
At the same time, all these assholes giving Hambly a hard time for not being a secret ninja are dumbasses. Hambly did exactly the right thing under the circumstances; he didn't try to fight back, he withdrew. Even if Hambly was some kind of badass karate master, he was taken by surprise (his one real mistake was sitting in a position where he was vulnerable to that type of surprise attack) and probably off-balance, and he had no way of knowing if there weren't 3 more of these antifa-terrorists ready to beat him to death with bike locks. Had he tried to punch back, it not only would have been much riskier for him, but it also would have turned a clear case of assault into a "bar fight" and made it much hard to hit this fucking cunt where it will REALLY hurt: his wallet.
That last is vital. Once it is "a fight," the police don't think finding out who is at fault is worth the effort. You both go in or, if you're lucky and no one has serious injuries, they let you both go.
Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1052178Interesting.
I wonder what political agenda the left thinks that's pushing.
Diplomacy is serious gaming bro. Serious GAMING!!!!
And this guy isn't a Martial Artist. Clearly he's a Rogue. SNEAK ATTACK!
Quote from: Omega;1051854The fact GenCon is promoting a designer who walked off with 15 grand of backers money is nearly more onerous than the offsite attack. This is up there with Origins nominating or giving Zwiehander an award recently.
I also saw the Zwiehander guys did a speech at Gencon on the front page of twitch. They posted about it on enworld - https://www.twitch.tv/videos/293412926?t=01h46m30s
/twitches
edit - but its not a bad talk. sorta interesting story to hear how the game was born from the basement to alot of sales
This allegedly happened in Indiana. He should have called the police immediately and began prosecution the hour of the alleged incident.
I'm not sure any of this happened simply because no arrest were made. IMPD has zero qualms arresting people. They round up the homeless before the conventions and tell them to hide in a homeless camp or go to jail for bit.
Daily Wire picks up story (https://www.dailywire.com/news/34276/professor-allegedly-assaults-youtuber-who-slammed-hank-berrien).
Daily Caller picks up story (http://dailycaller.com/2018/08/09/connecticut-professor-alleged-assault/).
Campus Reform picks up story (https://www.campusreform.org/?ID=11204).
Brietbart picks up story (https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2018/08/09/quinnipiac-professor-matthew-loter-allegedly-assaults-youtuber-for-criticizing-social-justice/).
Campus Reform independently verified the Police are investigating and the police report, and that Gen Con is investigating. A couple of the above articles quote a witness statement as well.
Quote from: Broken Twin;1052093Is it wrong that this part angers me more than anything else? As someone who trained in martial arts for a significant portion of my life, we were always taught that violence was a last resort. Deescalate, disengage, then if nothing else works, destroy. A student would be bad enough, but an instructor? His school should be blacklisted. If his students had any moral bearing at all, they'd walk out the door upon learning their teacher assaulted without provocation someone who was not threatening him.
That is, of course, assuming the event in question actually happened. Seriously sounds like it did though. Has anybody even tangentially related to the incident denied it occurring?
I'm with you on this:).
I mean, I know that in history, martial arts have often been used to resolve political and financial matters. But at the same time, there have always been practitioners that held to a higher standard...maybe I'm just being a Romanticist, though;).
And yes, you're also right that this is a very stupid move from either party. I mean, if you start acting like skinheads, what do you think the
actual skinheads are likely to do? Sue you:p?
As we mentioned above, there's two kinds of laws. That was a stupid move from either point of view - which is an achievement.
Quote from: tenbones;1051983You know? That's a much deeper question than the surface glance might imply. (or maybe it's just my biased view).
I was never the "nerd" in school but I did all the hardcore nerd stuff on my own away from the "cool kids" D&D among them. My D&D group was comprised of non-nerds I converted to play D&D so my experience with "gaming community" in the late 70's/early 80's was limited (mostly to protecting them from people picking on them. But play with them? Negative Ghostrider.) It wasn't until I left high-school and started running games at Con's where I really got exposed to the larger gaming populace and the insular weirdness of it all.
My current opinion is that it's the insular nerdzerkers now pretending in their own minds that their hobbies have gone mainstream have gone to their fucking heads. In a *bazillion* years I'd never have imagined some wannabe tatted up gaming-gangster would take themselves so seriously as to roll up on someone and physically attack them. Now those idiots have some secular religion that they have become True Believers(tm) in and act accordingly.
These are people that don't really understand real-life violence pretending they do. I don't hold Quartering to blame at all - I'm merely pointing out his attacker, if he keeps that shit up, he'll try it with the wrong person and hard lessons will be learned.
So - yeah. The sub-divisions of the Idiot Tribe are alive and well in our hobby.
Yeah, I'm sure he would. But your explanation why some people are starting to act weird lately actually makes a worrying amount of sense!
Nerds fighting to be accepted... Oh, humanity, thou hast played a big joke on those guys!
And yes, your prognosis is the likely outcome. That is, if he doesn't get sent to prison for assault first.
I shudder to think what he might learn there, and at what price.
Quote from: tenbones;1052113Sweet Galactus! I've SEEN this at a Con. In fact it was the first time I'd ever seen grown men fight over a game - Diplomacy! Even among my friends, back in the day - we were all super-competitive, Diplomacy caused real feuds at our table (if only for the night). That's hilarious, I'd forgotten about all that.
Seriously? Over Diplomacy, of all games?
Did they count as going to war over that;)?
Quote from: Broken Twin;1052160I can understand (but not agree with) the people who see this event as someone awful getting their just comeuppance. But the people advocating repeat performances just strike me as the type that never leave their echo chambers. Yeah, I'd take a grim satisfaction in seeing some of the people I disagree with getting sucker punched. But it wouldn't solve any of the issues I have with those people. Most, it would probably just make worse. They really need to realise that they're advocating for might makes right, and in that situation, it's not the nice people at the top of the food chain.
Yup, they need to, because assholes actually tend to have way more experience with violence. But you can't get through the background noise in their echo chambers...
Quote from: RPGPundit;1052239Man, I have to say, for a supposed 'martial arts instructor' he sure sucked ass. The dude attacked a guy by surprise, who didn't fight back, and only gave him a couple of light bruises and scratches; the worst injury he apparently did was skin-burn from tearing at the guy's shirt like a pussy.
At the same time, all these assholes giving Hambly a hard time for not being a secret ninja are dumbasses. Hambly did exactly the right thing under the circumstances; he didn't try to fight back, he withdrew. Even if Hambly was some kind of badass karate master, he was taken by surprise (his one real mistake was sitting in a position where he was vulnerable to that type of surprise attack) and probably off-balance, and he had no way of knowing if there weren't 3 more of these antifa-terrorists ready to beat him to death with bike locks. Had he tried to punch back, it not only would have been much riskier for him, but it also would have turned a clear case of assault into a "bar fight" and made it much hard to hit this fucking cunt where it will REALLY hurt: his wallet.
Also, Pundit's advice is good, people. If you can run when assaulted, run!
In the event that you get chased, and need to fight back, you'd have a much easier time proving who the aggressor was;).
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;1052264On the topic of punching. I am not particularly concerned about how good or bad the attacker was at martial arts. But I can say, heavy bag training, while it improves power, doesn't teach you how to knock a person out. People often look great on a heavy bag, great on drills, but sparring is where you really learn how to implement that stuff.
Yep, I was just going to join to say that hitting the heavy bag and hitting another man isn't exactly the same thing;).
And yes, his martial arts skills are immaterial. But what forum discussion of a violent incident would demand that everyone abstains from being armchair badasses and connoisseurs of fighting techniques:D?
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;1052264I don't know who either of these guys are (just learning about them both) but if he had a concussion, you wouldn't see that (and in a video someone linked, it appeared to me he may well have had a concussion---though not having seen him before, I am not a good judge of his normal facial expression). On the topic of punching. I am not particularly concerned about how good or bad the attacker was at martial arts. But I can say, heavy bag training, while it improves power, doesn't teach you how to knock a person out. People often look great on a heavy bag, great on drills, but sparring is where you really learn how to implement that stuff. And knocking out a person isn't easy, even if you are good...
All no doubt true.
But we've had a few cases in Melbourne over the last few years where a sucker punch like this in a bar has resulted in death or permanent brain damage. It may not be all that statistically likely, but it can happen.
So it's worth pointing out to those who say he had it coming - that with a bit of bad luck - this sort of attack could be a lot worse.
Quote from: Rhedyn;1052342This allegedly happened in Indiana. He should have called the police immediately and began prosecution the hour of the alleged incident.
I'm not sure any of this happened simply because no arrest were made. IMPD has zero qualms arresting people. They round up the homeless before the conventions and tell them to hide in a homeless camp or go to jail for bit.
Alleged? Are you really that ignorant? Go back and read where a report was filed and police are investigating.
I'm starting to regret having bought that box of Diplomacy at 10$ when the boxstote in my town area. Then again like real diplomacy betrayals do happen so why expect it not to in a boardgame based on diplomacy.
Looks like GenCon have finally issued a response on Facebook (more to follow apparently).
Quote from: The Exploited.;1052367Looks like GenCon have finally issued a response on Facebook (more to follow apparently).
I tried looking at it, but I didn't find the statement. Do you have a scrrenshot or link to the statement?
Quote from: sureshot;1052366I'm starting to regret having bought that box of Diplomacy at 10$ when the boxstote in my town area. Then again like real diplomacy betrayals do happen so why expect it not to in a boardgame based on diplomacy.
Diplomacy is notorious as the "Destroyer of Friendships". You can even get a T-shirt from Avalon Hill for the 50th anniversary reprint.
(https://cf.geekdo-images.com/original/img/-KLlaefi34iclglrVCcmkY7QzFM=/0x0/pic536690.jpg)
Lol, I remember shouting matches in the school library many years ago in my High school days over games of Diplomacy on lunch breaks.
Back in the 90s, I knew Diplomacy players who only play while wearing silly hats, and they buy outrageous RenFaire hats just for their games. It was their convention rule to keep the crazy in check. That game brings out the absolute worst in some people.
Quote from: HappyDaze;1052370I tried looking at it, but I didn't find the statement. Do you have a scrrenshot or link to the statement?
Here you go, from their Facebook:
'As we have received a number of requests for comment on a specific incident, we are releasing the following statement.
We are aware of a reported act of violence that took place prior to Gen Con 2018 on Weds, August 1 in Indianapolis. Gen Con has received no requests for assistance from local law enforcement, and as always, will cooperate with any request.
We are investigating the matter further as well, and condemn any acts of violence or harassment. Anyone found to have committed a violent act or a breach of our Ethics & Harassment policy will be banned from attending future Gen Con programming. We plan to resolve this matter as quickly as possible.
Gen Con is a world-class event, and is dedicated to providing a safe, welcoming environment for all attendees.'
Quote from: HappyDaze;1052370I tried looking at it, but I didn't find the statement. Do you have a scrrenshot or link to the statement?
In the "posts" section of the Facebook page
Quote from: GenConAs we have received a number of requests for comment on a specific incident, we are releasing the following statement.
We are aware of a reported act of violence that took place prior to Gen Con 2018 on Weds, August 1 in Indianapolis. Gen Con has received no requests for assistance from local law enforcement, and as always, will cooperate with any request.
We are investigating the matter further as well, and condemn any acts of violence or harassment. Anyone found to have committed a violent act or a breach of our Ethics & Harassment policy will be banned from attending future Gen Con programming. We plan to resolve this matter as quickly as possible.
Gen Con is a world-class event, and is dedicated to providing a safe, welcoming environment for all attendees.
https://www.facebook.com/pg/genconindy/posts/?ref=page_internal
This g+ thread is very illustrative of the hypocrisy and childishness of those who are defending the notion that it's ok to punch someone they've spuriously labeled a Nazi.
https://plus.google.com/+JonathanHenry/posts/5BCUEYLrt1R
Quote from: ArrozConLeche;1052417This g+ thread is very illustrative of the hypocrisy and childishness of those who are defending the notion that it's ok to punch someone they've spuriously labeled a Nazi.
https://plus.google.com/+JonathanHenry/posts/5BCUEYLrt1R
Goddamn, I'm seeing some people I respect on the "Punch A Nazi" side of that discussion.
EDIT: Seriously, what happened? Did the Brain Eater get them?
Quote from: The Exploited.;1052414Here you go, from their Facebook:
'As we have received a number of requests for comment on a specific incident, we are releasing the following statement.
We are aware of a reported act of violence that took place prior to Gen Con 2018 on Weds, August 1 in Indianapolis. Gen Con has received no requests for assistance from local law enforcement, and as always, will cooperate with any request.
We are investigating the matter further as well, and condemn any acts of violence or harassment. Anyone found to have committed a violent act or a breach of our Ethics & Harassment policy will be banned from attending future Gen Con programming. We plan to resolve this matter as quickly as possible.
Gen Con is a world-class event, and is dedicated to providing a safe, welcoming environment for all attendees.'
Thank you.
Quote from: HappyDaze;1052425Thank you.
No worries...
Unfortunately, things aren't going to change until the SJWs kill a "Nazi", ie. some Geek like them who has different opinions without being an "ist" of any sort. At this point the True Believers will say they had it coming and sane Liberals might start to realize that they have a Fundamentalist Cult in their house.
Then again, that never seemed to faze the Conservatives. ;) :D
Quote from: ArrozConLeche;1052417This g+ thread is very illustrative of the hypocrisy and childishness of those who are defending the notion that it's ok to punch someone they've spuriously labeled a Nazi.
https://plus.google.com/+JonathanHenry/posts/5BCUEYLrt1R
Wasted five minutes reading that drivel. It's hard to take anyone seriously when they insist the whole thing was an elaborate ruse to fleece some nerds out of $12k or whatever. You could easily make three or four times that much by Kickstarting some social justice rpg you have no intent of ever actually producing.
Quote from: ArrozConLeche;1052417This g+ thread is very illustrative of the hypocrisy and childishness of those who are defending the notion that it's ok to punch someone they've spuriously labeled a Nazi.
https://plus.google.com/+JonathanHenry/posts/5BCUEYLrt1R
By their logic, it's "ok" for me to run around punching liberals for being commies.
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1052446By their logic, it's "ok" for me to run around punching liberals for being commies.
This is it...
Of course, 'logic' only ever applies to these people when it needs to suit their minuscule world view. Anything beyond that, is fingers in the ear time and recite 'la la la' as loudly as one can.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1052405Back in the 90s, I knew Diplomacy players who only play while wearing silly hats, and they buy outrageous RenFaire hats just for their games. It was their convention rule to keep the crazy in check. That game brings out the absolute worst in some people.
Diplomacy with an opponent and bridge with a partner.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1052405Back in the 90s, I knew Diplomacy players who only play while wearing silly hats, and they buy outrageous RenFaire hats just for their games. It was their convention rule to keep the crazy in check. That game brings out the absolute worst in some people.
I always wear a suit. I find nothing says "fair warning - I will eat your soul if you let me" like being impeccably dressed.
Quote from: jeff37923;1052424Goddamn, I'm seeing some people I respect on the "Punch A Nazi" side of that discussion.
EDIT: Seriously, what happened? Did the Brain Eater get them?
Nazism is repugnant, and fear can do awful things to people.
Quote from: Baron Opal;1052458....Nazism is repugnant, and fear can do awful things to people.
Of course its repugnant - but no one should go around punching people just because their beliefs or politics are different.
That makes no damn sense at all!
Also its against the law.
Whatever the fuck reasons were one guy sucker-punched another guy. Someone should go to jail for assault or pay damages.
- Ed C.
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1052446By their logic, it's "ok" for me to run around punching liberals for being commies.
That would be true if they weren't wrong. It's just that they're wrong;).
Quote from: Koltar;1052466Of course its repugnant - but no one should go around punching people just because their beliefs or politics are different.
That makes no damn sense at all!
Also its against the law.
Whatever the fuck reasons were one guy sucker-punched another guy. Someone should go to jail for assault or pay damages.
- Ed C.
It makes perfect sense to me, given that fear can make one aggressive. Nazism isn't a very cuddly philosophy towards certain groups. There was even a time in this country when people were paid to kill them. But, then, I don't think that Hanbly is a Nazi.
Two assholes met in a bar, and one allegedly sucker-punched the another. Then, the aggressor allegedly punched a window which didn't slice his hand / arm to ribbons or break his wrist, depending if it was plate or safety glass. Impressive, that.
Still, there is a police report filed over a week ago. I'm sure the police interviewed whomever was there, are making their decisions, and will pursue with utmost diligence an assault case that happened in a city that neither the alleged perpetrator or victim reside. If the alleged aggressor did attack the victim, then I believe as well he should be prosecuted. Hanbly did not present himself as a clear and present danger.
There has to be some irony about those who would bemoan McCarthyism, and the hunt for Communists, but embrace the idea of shaming, doxing, geting them fired, punching, et all folks they label as Nazis.
Quote from: Baron Opal;1052474Two assholes met in a bar, and one allegedly sucker-punched the another.
Correction: One asshole was informed of the location of the other asshole and deliberately sought him out for sucker-punching after having Tweeted about looking for this fight.
That's not a fear-motivated incident.
Quote from: HappyDaze;1052482Correction: One asshole was informed of the location of the other asshole and deliberately sought him out for sucker-punching after having Tweeted about looking for this fight.
That's not a fear-motivated incident.
Come on, now. Surely Matt Loter is the true victim in all this. Due to all that generalized fear of Nazis he has. Regardless of whether the person he punched was a Nazi or not. What about his feelings?
(Apologies in advance if this attempt at sarcasm fell flat. It's not my best rhetorical form.)
Perhaps people are aware of this already, but apparently Loter was removed from his position as a part time professor at Quinnipiac University.
Quote from: Larsdangly;1052484Perhaps people are aware of this already, but apparently Loter was removed from his position as a part time professor at Quinnipiac University.
Wonder if he actually thought there wouldn't be any consequences and he would be lauded as some kind of hero
Quote from: HappyDaze;1052482Correction: One asshole was informed of the location of the other asshole and deliberately sought him out for sucker-punching after having Tweeted about looking for this fight.
That's not a fear-motivated incident.
No, it's not. I was referring to internet commentary.
I think people should relax and move on. This was one of thousands of assaults that happened that day; the victim was relatively unharmed; the perp is identified, has already been fired and will likely be prosecuted. The only things that are noteworthy is that it happened in our community and was motivated by the escalated, anti-social dialogue we are having about cultural politics. If you put a bunch of shaved monkeys (I.e., us) in a confined space and stir them up into a frenzy of personal attacks and arguments, some of the monkeys will bite. The biters should get the hose when they do it, but don't be surprised that it happened.
Quote from: Larsdangly;1052488If you put a bunch of shaved monkeys (I.e., us) in a confined space and stir them up into a frenzy of personal attacks and arguments, some of the monkeys will bite.
New ad copy for Gencon.
Quote from: Larsdangly;1052488I think people should relax and move on. This was one of thousands of assaults that happened that day; the victim was relatively unharmed; the perp is identified, has already been fired and will likely be prosecuted.
I'm sure you say that whenever a Nazi attacks a left-wing Youtube commenter.
Quote from: Mistwell;1052350Daily Wire picks up story (https://www.dailywire.com/news/34276/professor-allegedly-assaults-youtuber-who-slammed-hank-berrien).
Daily Caller picks up story (http://dailycaller.com/2018/08/09/connecticut-professor-alleged-assault/).
Campus Reform picks up story (https://www.campusreform.org/?ID=11204).
Brietbart picks up story (https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2018/08/09/quinnipiac-professor-matthew-loter-allegedly-assaults-youtuber-for-criticizing-social-justice/).
Campus Reform independently verified the Police are investigating and the police report, and that Gen Con is investigating. A couple of the above articles quote a witness statement as well.
Thanks, Mistwell. I hope the prosecution proceeds and this is settled. One thing that was odd to me was this from the Daily Caller story -
Quote"When the defendant stated that he was, in fact, Jeremy Hambly, [Loter] then proceeded to punch the defendant in the head while screaming, 'I'm going to fucking kill you,'" one witness said, according to a statement Hambly sent to The Daily Caller News Foundation.
"It took four people to pry him off ... then he punched a window and ran off," Hambly told Campus Reform.
So it is quoting a witness, but the witness quote is itself from a statement sent by Hambly. What I would hope for in a news article is for them to talk to the witnesses and get their account(s) independently. Witness accounts are real evidence, but how reliable they are varies. In the articles linked, I don't have a good understanding of who the witnesses are - or even how many there are - and what their separate accounts are.
"I'm going to fucking kill you!"
Nice way to turn an assault and battery charge into Attempted Murder.
Quote from: jeff37923;1052424Goddamn, I'm seeing some people I respect on the "Punch A Nazi" side of that discussion.
EDIT: Seriously, what happened? Did the Brain Eater get them?
Its because the "Punch anyone who disagrees with us" side has been spin doctoring all this to paint Hamblin and everyone else as a horrible person who totally deserves it. And then others read it and believe it and even when confronted with the facts they disbelieve and carry on because oh noes! the poor oppresseded womenens and minorities!
Quote from: CRKrueger;1052427Unfortunately, things aren't going to change until the SJWs kill a "Nazi", ie. some Geek like them who has different opinions without being an "ist" of any sort. At this point the True Believers will say they had it coming and sane Liberals might start to realize that they have a Fundamentalist Cult in their house.
Then again, that never seemed to faze the Conservatives. ;) :D
Or the SJWs will just claim the killer "wasnt really one of us. No honestly! He wasnt! Ignore us applauding his actions over here." Or theyd just paint the victem as an even more horrible person, with lots of "evidence" to back it.
And if it isnt the SJWs then its the damn Prude Patrol back at it again. It is cyclic at this point.
Quote from: Brad;1052428Wasted five minutes reading that drivel. It's hard to take anyone seriously when they insist the whole thing was an elaborate ruse to fleece some nerds out of $12k or whatever. You could easily make three or four times that much by Kickstarting some social justice rpg you have no intent of ever actually producing.
Which is what the attacker essentially did.
Quote from: Ras Algethi;1052480There has to be some irony about those who would bemoan McCarthyism, and the hunt for Communists, but embrace the idea of shaming, doxing, geting them fired, punching, et all folks they label as Nazis.
Thats because these SJWs are the new Nazis. They use the same rhetoric and tactics. Replace "Punch a Nazi" with "Punch a Jew". My grandparents lived through this stuff and would have called these SJWs exactly what they are.
Quote from: CRKrueger;1052493"I'm going to fucking kill you!"
Nice way to turn an assault and battery charge into Attempted Murder.
Unfortunately theres probably no way of telling if that was actually said or if its made up by the news or what. Wouldnt surprise me if he did say it though. He's got enough ego to admit to a prior assault in an interview so all bets are off.
Back to gaming.
Aside from the loony of cons like PAX and a few others it has overall not been this fruitcake. You could go to a con after con and never see a single problem.
And thats been 90% of my experience. Immense fun. Even when twice in a row I got gyped out of a room at the 11th hour and slept in the corner of the video room. Sleep dep+convention makes for a surreal experience. :eek:
Unfortunately Ive been to one con where the prude patrol staged an attack which pretty much ruined the con and was the catalyst for its demise as one of these nuts then took over the con and a year or so later it was DOA.
I had more trouble with the RPGA dicking off events, or other stuff like the occasional artist and publisher backstabbing going on in the background at cons than any real trouble. We had more trouble with just attendees being a weeee bit too enthusiastic and occasionally getting themselves or someone else roughed up accidentally.
Quote from: S'mon;1052491I'm sure you say that whenever a Nazi attacks a left-wing Youtube commenter.
Fun fact: If you search for the word Charlottesville on this site you turn up almost nothing, and none of it related to the most dramatic event of purely political violence in recent history. Hard to say why, and perhaps if I rolled up my sleeves and really dug through the pages from a year ago I'd find something. But one possibility is that it's because the douches who lead the charge on the 'SJW' rants around here are completely uninterested when a young man who identifies as a Nazi murders and maims innocent people, but enjoy wallowing in 50 pages of catastrophizing self pity when an alt-light attention seeker gets a light punch up. So, you can roll your argument up into a little ball of false equivalence and stuff it up your ass.
Quote from: Larsdangly;1052502Fun fact: If you search for the word Charlottesville on this site you turn up almost nothing, and none of it related to the most dramatic event of purely political violence in recent history. Hard to say why, and perhaps if I rolled up my sleeves and really dug through the pages from a year ago I'd find something. But one possibility is that it's because the douches who lead the charge on the 'SJW' rants around here are completely uninterested when a young man who identifies as a Nazi murders and maims innocent people, but enjoy wallowing in 50 pages of catastrophizing self pity when an alt-light attention seeker gets a light punch up. So, you can roll your argument up into a little ball of false equivalence and stuff it up your ass.
That is because the Search function does not work in Punditry, fucknugget. Thank you for demonstrating the reason why.
Quote from: Larsdangly;1052502Fun fact: If you search for the word Charlottesville on this site you turn up almost nothing, and none of it related to the most dramatic event of purely political violence ...blah, blah, blah, blippity -blah -blah...... up into a little ball of false equivalence and stuff it up your ass.
Why?
Why the Frak would there be talk about the Charlottesville crap on here?
The assault or incident we've been talking about at least has a tenuous connection to gaming since both of the children in men's bodies were attending Gen Con and might have been wearing their attendee badges at the time. Plus, people are stretching so far to connect it to Gen Con to it that they are almost pulling muscles or giving themselves leg cramps.
Personal politics should stay out of gaming.
Just say : "Its just a game for fuck's sake!" - and try to have some fun.
- Ed C.
Yeah, it's stupid-crazy for some guy to use the lack of discussion of Charlottesville in a gaming forum to spew more ideological crap. SJWs gotta SJW, obviously.
Quote from: Larsdangly;1052502Fun fact: If you search for the word Charlottesville on this site you turn up almost nothing, and none of it related to the most dramatic event of purely political violence in recent history. Hard to say why, and perhaps if I rolled up my sleeves and really dug through the pages from a year ago I'd find something. But one possibility is that it's because the douches who lead the charge on the 'SJW' rants around here are completely uninterested when a young man who identifies as a Nazi murders and maims innocent people, but enjoy wallowing in 50 pages of catastrophizing self pity when an alt-light attention seeker gets a light punch up. So, you can roll your argument up into a little ball of false equivalence and stuff it up your ass.
Is this that Whataboutism I keep hearing about?
Quote from: Baron Opal;1052458I always wear a suit. I find nothing says "fair warning - I will eat your soul if you let me" like being impeccably dressed.
That's awesome!!
Quote from: Larsdangly;1052502Fun fact: If you search for the word Charlottesville on this site you turn up almost nothing, and none of it related to the most dramatic event of purely political violence in recent history.
We babbled LOTS about that debacle when it happened.
If Pundy did a blog about it (I don't remember), then he'll repost it 1 year later as he often does.
If so, I'm sure we'll babble about it again.
And considering how staged and orchestrated Charlottesville was, I guess "most dramatic event" is a good description.
Quote from: Koltar;1052512Why the Frak would there be talk about the Charlottesville crap on here?
We crap about all kinds of nonsense in Punditry. We crapped much about the Tiki Bro brigade back then.
Quote from: Larsdangly;1052502Fun fact: If you search for the word Charlottesville on this site you turn up almost nothing, and none of it related to the most dramatic event of purely political violence in recent history. Hard to say why, and perhaps if I rolled up my sleeves and really dug through the pages from a year ago I'd find something. But one possibility is that it's because the douches who lead the charge on the 'SJW' rants around here are completely uninterested when a young man who identifies as a Nazi murders and maims innocent people, but enjoy wallowing in 50 pages of catastrophizing self pity when an alt-light attention seeker gets a light punch up. So, you can roll your argument up into a little ball of false equivalence and stuff it up your ass.
I will take that as a No then.
Quote from: Larsdangly;1052502Fun fact: If you search for the word Charlottesville on this site you turn up almost nothing, and none of it related to the most dramatic event of purely political violence in recent history. Hard to say why, and perhaps if I rolled up my sleeves and really dug through the pages from a year ago I'd find something. But one possibility is that it's because the douches who lead the charge on the 'SJW' rants around here are completely uninterested when a young man who identifies as a Nazi murders and maims innocent people, but enjoy wallowing in 50 pages of catastrophizing self pity when an alt-light attention seeker gets a light punch up. So, you can roll your argument up into a little ball of false equivalence and stuff it up your ass.
How many are there about the attack on the baseball game in Alexandria, VA ?
Quote from: Larsdangly;1052502Fun fact: If you search for the word Charlottesville on this site you turn up almost nothing, and none of it related to the most dramatic event of purely political violence in recent history. Hard to say why, and perhaps if I rolled up my sleeves and really dug through the pages from a year ago I'd find something. But one possibility is that it's because the douches who lead the charge on the 'SJW' rants around here are completely uninterested when a young man who identifies as a Nazi murders and maims innocent people, but enjoy wallowing in 50 pages of catastrophizing self pity when an alt-light attention seeker gets a light punch up. So, you can roll your argument up into a little ball of false equivalence and stuff it up your ass.
Could you be dishonest?
Quote from: Lurtch;1052539Could you be dishonest?
Not any more than usual.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1051740Except that the guy who assaulted Quartering was at Gencon the next day.
Imagine if, say some nerdo had just shouted at, not even laid a hand on, Anita Sarkeesian at a bar. Do you believe that nerdo would have been allowed into Gencon the next day? Do you believe Gencon would have been PROMOTING HIS PRODUCTS the next day on their social media?!
To be fair, the incident happend in a bar outside GenCon, so they wouldn't really have any grounds on banning people. Had it happened onsite then there would be strong grounds.
Quote from: soltakss;1052566To be fair, the incident happend in a bar outside GenCon, so they wouldn't really have any grounds on banning people. Had it happened onsite then there would be strong grounds.
I think the heart of Pundit's statement still holds true though. If Sarkeesian had been at that bar instead of Hambly, and someone with a booth, doing product promotions, had shouted at her, then that person would've been tossed out of GenCon.
Quote from: Omega;1052362Alleged? Are you really that ignorant? Go back and read where a report was filed and police are investigating.
It depends where you are from, I suppose. In the UK, everything is "alleged" until it is taken to court and then proven or not. There is a lot of contempt of court stuff in the UK that basically stops people commenting on incidents and saying that something definitely happened. So, the Incident definitely happened, but whether it was an assult remains to be proven.
USA laws obviously differ and I have no idea if the same principles apply.
But, IANAL.
Quote from: thedungeondelver;1052568I think the heart of Pundit's statement still holds true though. If Sarkeesian had been at that bar instead of Hambly, and someone with a booth, doing product promotions, had shouted at her, then that person would've been tossed out of GenCon.
Of course, and that's the whole problem. Either kick everyone out for violence, or no one. Don't placate one group because they're REALLY vocal and annoying and ignore another because they're able to deal with reality.
I suppose my favorite part about this whole episode is blaming the Hamblin guy because he is actually pursuing litigation, as if it's only a valid course of action for "oppressed" people. White male? How can he sue?
Quote from: soltakss;1052566To be fair, the incident happend in a bar outside GenCon, so they wouldn't really have any grounds on banning people. Had it happened onsite then there would be strong grounds.
I haven't been keeping a list, but I could have sworn we've seen cons banning people for all kinds of things that didn't happen at their con. I don't even recall the accusations including beating anyone up.
Quote from: Almost_Useless;1052572I haven't been keeping a list, but I could have sworn we've seen cons banning people for all kinds of things that didn't happen at their con. I don't even recall the accusations including beating anyone up.
People (I think it was actually that Jessica Price clown) were calling for Frank Mentzer's head because he made an awkward pass at some girl (again, maybe Price), and threatening NTRPGCon if he was a guest. Totally unrelated, not even a crime, just an old man who was being somewhat annoying.
Quote from: Omega;1052500Aside from the loony of cons like PAX and a few others it has overall not been this fruitcake. You could go to a con after con and never see a single problem.
I recently went to Continuum in Leicester and they appointed a Safety Officer, in case there were reports of harrassment etc and nothing was reported to them at all. So, there are some cons where people go to game and have fun, not to make names for themselves.
Quote from: Larsdangly;1052502Fun fact: If you search for the word Charlottesville on this site you turn up almost nothing, and none of it related to the most dramatic event of purely political violence in recent history. Hard to say why, and perhaps if I rolled up my sleeves and really dug through the pages from a year ago I'd find something. But one possibility is that it's because the douches who lead the charge on the 'SJW' rants around here are completely uninterested when a young man who identifies as a Nazi murders and maims innocent people, but enjoy wallowing in 50 pages of catastrophizing self pity when an alt-light attention seeker gets a light punch up. So, you can roll your argument up into a little ball of false equivalence and stuff it up your ass.
Although Charlottesville was a terrible incident, with a lot of right wing violence and violence from counter-demonstrators, it had nothing to do with RPGs, as far as I know, so why would it have come up here?
BTTW, I use Google to search therpgsite rather than the broken search facility.
Quote from: Larsdangly;1052502Fun fact: If you search for the word Charlottesville on this site you turn up almost nothing, and none of it related to the most dramatic event of purely political violence in recent history. Hard to say why, and perhaps if I rolled up my sleeves and really dug through the pages from a year ago I'd find something. But one possibility is that it's because the douches who lead the charge on the 'SJW' rants around here are completely uninterested when a young man who identifies as a Nazi murders and maims innocent people, but enjoy wallowing in 50 pages of catastrophizing self pity when an alt-light attention seeker gets a light punch up. So, you can roll your argument up into a little ball of false equivalence and stuff it up your ass.
I have to go with what everyone else has said about this particular non sequitur. If a bunch of tiki torch waving white supremacists had marched on a gaming convention, I'm pretty sure there would have been a thread here devoted to the incident.
Quote from: soltakss;1052566To be fair, the incident happend in a bar outside GenCon, so they wouldn't really have any grounds on banning people. Had it happened onsite then there would be strong grounds.
When the assault occurred, the victim and/or the witnesses (not sure) stated that the attacker was wearing his GenCon badge. This drags them into it.
If someone had yelled at sarkeesian, we would not stop hearing about how unsafe the incident makes the usual couch fainters feel.
Quote from: HappyDaze;1052584When the assault occurred, the victim and/or the witnesses (not sure) stated that the attacker was wearing his GenCon badge. This drags them into it.
Not just Matt Loter wearing a GenCon badge mandates that GenCon should respond and ban Matt Loter from coming back to the convention. The victim was targeted specifically because he was attending GenCon, and when Matt made his threat to fight anyone critical of Sarkeesian on Twitter had tagged @GenCon into that conversation.
I can't think it would serve GenCon well to say that the safety of their attendees only applies within the strict confines of the convention center, but 1 foot outside the convention it might as well be the Wild West. Such a stance runs the risk of inviting escalation, and in turn causing a negative impact on attendance. Much better for everyone if they take action now and set a clear line that any violence and/or intimidation won't be tolerated by GenCon even if it doesn't occur on site. GenCon can't and shouldn't attempt to police the world, but it seems reasonable that they should expect attendees to not engage in violence anywhere during the con from the time people start travelling to the con, to the time return home. I also think they'd be in their rights to ban someone who engaged in violence at another gaming convention. Again, they can't police everyone involved in a scuffle everywhere at any time, but in this case Matt was quite public and deliberate about targeting GenCon attendees.
Its still off site though. Its pretty common for people to wear their badge just about 24/7 when at a con so they dont forget it or misplace it since losing a badge can be a major pain in the ass depending on how much of a dick or not the con managers or security are about it. And I've had some minor run ins with con security being dicks. But in one case it was just because everyone was on edge due to some incidents with corrupt news groups.
And with GenCon you need your badge for any of the off site events and at least back in the 90s there were several as noted previously and Id bet there are still. And these were scheduled events in the convention book. Hambly was not at one at that bar though.
Quote from: Omega;1052590Its still off site though. Its pretty common for people to wear their badge just about 24/7 when at a con so they dont forget it or misplace it since losing a badge can be a major pain in the ass depending........
Heck I still had my badge on while riding in the car on the way home to Cincinnati. We stopped in at a Cracker Barrel restaurant in the Shelbyville area and the hostess said "Did you like Gen Con?" - oh yeah, because I still had my badge and lanyard on.
Crazy Good thing happened at the porch of the restaurant ....never mind I got lost in that tangent.....
- Ed C.
Quote from: Gagarth;1052533How many are there about the attack on the baseball game in Alexandria, VA ?
I don't remember a dedicated thread, but I'm pretty sure we barfed and farted about it, as we are oft found to do during high tea.
I was surprised the shooter was a BernieBro. I don't like politicians in general and feel most of them deserve prison terms, but even I don't approve of popping them in the head.
But I agree the shooter was deranged. Sane BernieBros know the Democrats, not the Republicans, fucked Sanders over and ensured Trump's victory.
Quote from: soltakss;1052574I recently went to Continuum in Leicester and they appointed a Safety Officer, in case there were reports of harrassment etc
OMG OMG OMG I would have SOOOO fucked with them.
What a bunch of worthless losers.
Quote from: Koltar;1052591Crazy Good thing happened at the porch of the restaurant ....
What's her name!!! :)
Quote from: Spinachcat;1052593What's her name!!! :)
Alright, not naming her - but I was waiting outside on their porch for our party to be called on the P.A. From my Right I hear someone yell out: "Ed, is that you ?".
I turn to my right and it was an old girlfriend thst I had dated back in 1994. We were both active in Klingon fandom in the '90s, she played role playing games....etc. What is weird is that we both live in Ohio - yet we bump into each other in Shelbyville Indiana.
She was there with her kid because they had been visiting the Children's museum in Indianapolis. Her husband was back in Ohio. (Yeah, she married somebody else years ago...)
- Ed C.
As for GenCon's culpability, I do NOT support blaming them. Expecting corporations to police off-site behavior (or off-hours employees) reeks of Nanny State Orwellian Bullshit.
Yes, I know companies are already doing that. I fucking HATE that nonsense because soon all employees (and con attendees) will be 24/7 monitored for corporate friendliness.
Fuck.That.Shit.
And yes, I absolutely 10000% agree that if someone looked at their joke of a Guest of Honor wrong at a site away from the con, GenCon's management would have shit itself.
THAT's why I will NOT support GenCon financially.
BTW, when Hambly gets a lawyer, don't be surprised if the lawyer tries a shuck and jive with "GenCon set up [or allowed, cultivated, etc] a dangerous atmosphere and by inaction, encouraged this behavior...as can be seen by these online responses from prominent attendees supporting my client being attacked." AKA, a tactic we've seen used in cases involving drunken idiot fights in stadium parking lots...and maybe some judges [depending on their breakfast] might listen to that.
Spinachat, I don't think GenCon deserves blame for what happened, but I do think that going forward they do have an obligation to ban Matt Loter.
Imagine the following situation:
1. You're throwing a party at your house.
2. Two of the people (Mr. D and Mr. R) that you've invited have strong allegiances to the Democrat and Republican parties. Mr. D is a staunch Democrat, and Mr R is a staunch Republican.
3. Mr. R puts word out on Twitter that he'd like to punch anyone attending Mr. Spinachat's party who happens to be a Democrat. You don't necessarily know about this tweet because you're living an actual life and prepping for the party.
4. While at the party someone points out to Mr. B that Mr. D is a Democrat.
5. Mr. D exits your house to get in his car to pick up some smokes, and plans to come back to your party.
6. While Mr D. is on the street and getting into his car, Mr. R sucker punches Mr. D. Mr. R then drives back to his own home.
7. There were several witnesses to Mr. R assaulting Mr. D. Mr. D files a police report. Mr. R's previous social media statements threatening violence to any Deomocrats who attends Mr. Spinachat's party are found.
8. All of the above information is made known to you.
Do you think it would be out of bounds (Orwellian/nanny state) for you to stop inviting Mr. R to your parties? That's what I believe some of us are asking of GenCon.
Would you instead continue to invite both Mr. D and Mr. R to your parties, essentially telling Mr. D you won't tolerate any violence in your house, but immediately upon leaving your house he's on his own as far as not getting attacked by Mr. R, whom you've continued to invite to the same parties?
I hate the Orwellian vision of the future as much as anyone, but I don't think this is the scenario we have here.
Quote from: wmarshal;1052602Spinachat, I don't think GenCon deserves blame for what happened, but I do think that going forward they do have an obligation to ban Matt Loter.
If he's found to be guilty or culpable yes.
Not on hearsay.
Quote from: TJS;1052607If he's found to be guilty or culpable yes.
Not on hearsay.
Which is why they couldn't keep him out of
this Gencon. Officially, they have to wait for a resolution.
But it's way more than hearsay now, except in the strictest legal sense. As to consequences, I am probably more strongly for the rights of the accused than almost anyone and insist on the strict legal sense but for purposes of
conversation the bastard's guilty.
Quote from: WillInNewHaven;1052610Which is why they couldn't keep him out of this Gencon. Officially, they have to wait for a resolution.
But it's way more than hearsay now, except in the strictest legal sense. As to consequences, I am probably more strongly for the rights of the accused than almost anyone and insist on the strict legal sense but for purposes of conversation the bastard's guilty.
Well your more confident than I am - I'd say it looks like he's guilty - but it's not so clearcut - we still only have one side's version of what actually went on, and there's some aspects that do seem strange - such as why the bar wouldn't seek police involvement for criminal damage to their window.
Quote from: TJS;1052611Well your more confident than I am - I'd say it looks like he's guilty - but it's not so clearcut - we still only have one side's version of what actually went on, and there's some aspects that do seem strange - such as why the bar wouldn't seek police involvement for criminal damage to their window.
The damage to their window makes it an extreme case but I remember the reaction of a bar back in New Haven to a fight that spilled out of the bar into the middle of the street: "Didn't see anything; it happened out in the street." Getting involved is not in the bar's interest.
Quote from: wmarshal;1052602Spinachat, I don't think GenCon deserves blame for what happened, but I do think that going forward they do have an obligation to ban Matt Loter.
Imagine the following situation:
1. You're throwing a party at your house.
2. Two of the people (Mr. D and Mr. R) that you've invited have strong allegiances to the Democrat and Republican parties. Mr. D is a staunch Democrat, and Mr R is a staunch Republican.
3. Mr. R puts word out on Twitter that he'd like to punch anyone attending Mr. Spinachat's party who happens to be a Democrat. You don't necessarily know about this tweet because you're living an actual life and prepping for the party.
4. While at the party someone points out to Mr. B that Mr. D is a Democrat.
5. Mr. D exits your house to get in his car to pick up some smokes, and plans to come back to your party.
6. While Mr D. is on the street and getting into his car, Mr. R sucker punches Mr. D. Mr. R then drives back to his own home.
7. There were several witnesses to Mr. R assaulting Mr. D. Mr. D files a police report. Mr. R's previous social media statements threatening violence to any Deomocrats who attends Mr. Spinachat's party are found.
8. All of the above information is made known to you.
Do you think it would be out of bounds (Orwellian/nanny state) for you to stop inviting Mr. R to your parties? That's what I believe some of us are asking of GenCon.
Would you instead continue to invite both Mr. D and Mr. R to your parties, essentially telling Mr. D you won't tolerate any violence in your house, but immediately upon leaving your house he's on his own as far as not getting attacked by Mr. R, whom you've continued to invite to the same parties?
I hate the Orwellian vision of the future as much as anyone, but I don't think this is the scenario we have here.
This is valid, but it ignores how Gen Con handled news and discussion of the incident on their media platforms. It looked like an attempt to choose sides and cover up the crime. As Spinichcat has explained upthread, it could just be really bad timing and execution on the part of Gen Con staff. However, it looks really bad for them when all discussion of the incident was quashed with bannings and threats of bannings if it was talked about on their social media channels and then endorsement of the game and publishing group that the assailant was associated with on Twitter during Gen Con.
Quote from: WillInNewHaven;1052610Which is why they couldn't keep him out of this Gencon. Officially, they have to wait for a resolution.
But it's way more than hearsay now, except in the strictest legal sense. As to consequences, I am probably more strongly for the rights of the accused than almost anyone and insist on the strict legal sense but for purposes of conversation the bastard's guilty.
My 8 point "Spinachat throws a party" scenario made above was to try to draw an analogy to the whole scenario as we know it. However, I think GenCon has sufficient justification to ban Matt Loter solely on on the fact that he specifically threatened to seek violence against other GenCon attendees. He did make those threats on twitter, and in a Dice Tower interview he bragged about punching another attendee in 2004. He was not speaking of defending himself, but rather using GenCon as a hunting ground to find people he wanted to punch. That it seems he actually acted on his threats he is additional justification for a ban in my opinion. i don't think GenCon has to wait for a formal guilty verdict at the end of a criminal trial, which may be difficult to have occur since Matt Loter lives in another state. There might be another side to the events that happened, but as far as I know Matt hasn't communicated that other side to anyone. With the information we have at hand, I think a ban is warranted. I don't think GenCon had to issue such a ban very next day after the event occurred as these things take time, but I think a substantive response from them within a couple of weeks of the end of the con is enough time.
Quote from: wmarshal;1052614My 8 point "Spinachat throws a party" scenario made above was to try to draw an analogy to the whole scenario as we know it. However, I think GenCon has sufficient justification to ban Matt Loter solely on on the fact that he specifically threatened to seek violence against other GenCon attendees. He did make those threats on twitter, and in a Dice Tower interview he bragged about punching another attendee in 2004. He was not speaking of defending himself, but rather using GenCon as a hunting ground to find people he wanted to punch. That it seems he actually acted on his threats he is additional justification for a ban in my opinion. i don't think GenCon has to wait for a formal guilty verdict at the end of a criminal trial, which may be difficult to have occur since Matt Loter lives in another state. There might be another side to the events that happened, but as far as I know Matt hasn't communicated that other side to anyone. With the information we have at hand, I think a ban is warranted. I don't think GenCon had to issue such a ban very next day after the event occurred as these things take time, but I think a substantive response from them within a couple of weeks of the end of the con is enough time.
Am I missing something here? Isn't the tweet in question something like "if you have a problem with Anita Sarkeesian fucking fight me". It's not really clear this is supposed to be a threat - at least not before the case - and the video isn't particularly strong either - is the event in 2004 a real event or a joke - if it really happened who was the victim? Overall when taken together they add to together to make a somewhat circumstantial case - but given that, as far as I can see, no one independent of the victim (except possibly at this point the police) seems to have spoken to a witness who can identify the assailant, then it would be foolish for Gen Con to ban anyone right now - not when legal proceedings are underway and there's a whole year to see how things shake out. And it's hardly surprising, given this is a police matter that there hasn't been a public denial - innocent or guilty he's probably been given legal advice to say nothing.
Quote from: TJS;1052616Am I missing something here? Isn't the tweet in question something like "if you have a problem with Anita Sarkeesian fucking fight me". It's not really clear this is supposed to be a threat - at least not before the case - and the video isn't particularly strong either - is the event in 2004 a real event or a joke - if it really happened who was the victim? Overall when taken together they add to together to make a somewhat circumstantial case - but given that, as far as I can see, no one independent of the victim (except possibly at this point the police) seems to have spoken to a witness who can identify the assailant, then it would be foolish for Gen Con to ban anyone right now - not when legal proceedings are underway and there's a whole year to see how things shake out. And it's hardly surprising, given this is a police matter that there hasn't been a public denial - innocent or guilty he's probably been given legal advice to say nothing.
I read Matt's tweet as a threat. He wants to engage in violence with any GenCon attendee who disagrees with GenCon's invitation of Anita Sarkeesian. This should not be acceptable dialogue from an attendee directed towards other attendees. He's not making any claim to self defense. He's stating that he wants to escalate a difference of opinion into violence. I take him at his word. I think GenCon should, too.
Quote from: wmarshal;1052619I read Matt's tweet as a threat. He wants to engage in violence with any GenCon attendee who disagrees with GenCon's invitation of Anita Sarkeesian. This should not be acceptable dialogue from an attendee directed towards other attendees. He's not making any claim to self defense. He's stating that he wants to escalate a difference of opinion into violence. I take him at his word. I think GenCon should, too.
If
anyone had threatened Ms. Sarkeesian Gencon would have banned them. I don't agree with some that consistency is
enough (which is why I favor an electronic strike zone) but consistency is sort of the
minimum standard to which one can hold authority figures.
Quote from: WillInNewHaven;1052621If anyone had threatened Ms. Sarkeesian Gencon would have banned them. I don't agree with some that consistency is enough (which is why I favor an electronic strike zone) but consistency is sort of the minimum standard to which one can hold authority figures.
Consistency has to be based on real events however.
You can't claim inconsistency over hypothetical events. Especially if the hypothetical event - threat against a specific person - isn't even the same thing as an apparent blowhard making a general callout against non-specific individuals.
Quote from: TJS;1052622Consistency has to be based on real events however.
You can't claim inconsistency over hypothetical events. Especially the hypothetical event - threat against a specific person - isn't even the same thing as an apparent blowhard making a general callout against non-specific individuals.
The
threats aren't hypothetical. The "it was hyperbole" and "I was just kidding" defenses would avail someone who threatened Ms. S. nothing and should avail this guy nothing. If you imagine that they would not bar someone who threatened her you have a fine imagination.
Quote from: TJS;1052622Consistency has to be based on real events however.
You can't claim inconsistency over hypothetical events. Especially if the hypothetical event - threat against a specific person - isn't even the same thing as an apparent blowhard making a general callout against non-specific individuals.
The proposition of Matt Loter being a "blowhard" is not apparent to me, and I can imagine it's not apparent to many others. I think we should be beyond of lending credulity to the bullying tactic of trying to excuse bad actions with "I was just kidding" or "I didn't mean it."
Quote from: wmarshal;1052602Spinachat, I don't think GenCon deserves blame for what happened, but I do think that going forward they do have an obligation to ban Matt Loter.
Imagine the following situation:
1. You're throwing a party at your house.
2. Two of the people (Mr. D and Mr. R) that you've invited have strong allegiances to the Democrat and Republican parties. Mr. D is a staunch Democrat, and Mr R is a staunch Republican.
3. Mr. R puts word out on Twitter that he'd like to punch anyone attending Mr. Spinachat's party who happens to be a Democrat. You don't necessarily know about this tweet because you're living an actual life and prepping for the party.
4. While at the party someone points out to Mr. B that Mr. D is a Democrat.
5. Mr. D exits your house to get in his car to pick up some smokes, and plans to come back to your party.
6. While Mr D. is on the street and getting into his car, Mr. R sucker punches Mr. D. Mr. R then drives back to his own home.
7. There were several witnesses to Mr. R assaulting Mr. D. Mr. D files a police report. Mr. R's previous social media statements threatening violence to any Deomocrats who attends Mr. Spinachat's party are found.
8. All of the above information is made known to you.
Do you think it would be out of bounds (Orwellian/nanny state) for you to stop inviting Mr. R to your parties? That's what I believe some of us are asking of GenCon.
Would you instead continue to invite both Mr. D and Mr. R to your parties, essentially telling Mr. D you won't tolerate any violence in your house, but immediately upon leaving your house he's on his own as far as not getting attacked by Mr. R, whom you've continued to invite to the same parties?
I hate the Orwellian vision of the future as much as anyone, but I don't think this is the scenario we have here.
You're forgetting the part where Mr R tweets YOU and tells you he's hunting at your party.
Quote from: WillInNewHaven;1052624The threats aren't hypothetical. The "it was hyperbole" and "I was just kidding" defenses would avail someone who threatened Ms. S. nothing and should avail this guy nothing. If you imagine that they would not bar someone who threatened her you have a fine imagination.
See your use of the subjunctive
would - there's your hypothetical. And as I said - your hypothetical situation isn't really the same as the actual situation. Furthermore it doesn't really matter what you believe or I believe Gen Con would do in a hypothetical situation - you can't be inconsistent before the fact.
Quote from: wmarshal;1052625The proposition of Matt Loter being a "blowhard" is not apparent to me, and I can imagine it's not apparent to many others. I think we should be beyond of lending credulity to the bullying tactic of trying to excuse bad actions with "I was just kidding" or "I didn't mean it."
Who's excusing bad actions? If he assaulted Hambly he should be banned for that. If he did it, then the tweet is irrelevant to whether Gen Con should ban him or not.
Is the tweet alone sufficient to justify banning? I think no. I think a threat needs to be more specific before we start policing people based on things they say on social media.
Quote from: Warboss Squee;1052626You're forgetting the part where Mr R tweets YOU and tells you he's hunting at your party.
? ? ?
Quote from: TJS;1052629? ? ?
Loter included GenCon in the tweet he put out that he was hunting people to punch. Meaning that GenCon got a notification about his intentions.
Quote from: Warboss Squee;1052631Loter included GenCon in the tweet he put out that he was hunting people to punch. Meaning that GenCon got a notification about his intentions.
Do you have a link?
That certainly puts a different spin on the situation.
Quote from: TJS;1052633That certainly puts a different spin on the situation.
LOL.
Quote from: wmarshal;1052602Imagine the following situation:
1. You're throwing a party at your house.
[video=youtube;SkTt9k4Y-a8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkTt9k4Y-a8[/youtube]
Quote from: wmarshal;1052602Do you think it would be out of bounds (Orwellian/nanny state) for you to stop inviting Mr. R to your parties? That's what I believe some of us are asking of GenCon.
The party analogy doesn't work because I'm a private citizen hosting a private event. But not to quibble, let's assume I'm throwing a party for the public in a public venue. AKA, hosting a New Year's Eve gala at resort and anyone can buy a ticket.
In this case, I'm in a quandary. I am NOT taking responsibility for WTF my guests do outside my event. If they want to fight, fuck or write poetry, that's their problem. My business insurance doesn't cover stuff not at my event site. And in this case, I am a business making money hosting a public event to suck cash out of wallets, not further anyone's politics.
That said, the rest of my guests (and potential next year guests) are NOT going to be happy with me if I don't do
something.
If I was GenCon, I'd spend cash on a lawyer to find out EXACTLY what are our company's legal rights and responsibilities in this situation. Once I had those concrete legal answers, I'd know what my public relation options would be, but foremost I would not want either Mr. R or Mr. D to have legal ground to come at me if I banned or not banned the attacker.
Quote from: TJS;1052611and there's some aspects that do seem strange - such as why the bar wouldn't seek police involvement for criminal damage to their window.
THAT is weird.
Quote from: WillInNewHaven;1052621(which is why I favor an electronic strike zone)
What is an electronic strike zone?
Does it involve EMP weapons?
Quote from: TJS;1052633Do you have a link?
That certainly puts a different spin on the situation.
I didn't save it and the little bugger is purging his twitter like a Clinton going through an email account.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1052640THAT is weird.
Apparently not that uncommon. Its been discussed on other forums where something happened at a bar and for whatever reason the cops arent called. And my aunt ran a bar. SHE beat up people.
Oft seems to be because the person ran and its more effort than its worth to file charges. Insurance will cover it or somesuch?
Could be the bar realized this was a con-goer and thus would be long gone even if identified. One con I mercifully missed had the hotel it was hosted at trashed and far as I can tell no charges were ever filed? Weird but such is.
Quote from: Omega;1052642Apparently not that uncommon. Its been discussed on other forums where something happened at a bar and for whatever reason the cops arent called. And my aunt ran a bar. SHE beat up people.
Oft seems to be because the person ran and its more effort than its worth to file charges. Insurance will cover it or somesuch?
Could be the bar realized this was a con-goer and thus would be long gone even if identified. One con I mercifully missed had the hotel it was hosted at trashed and far as I can tell no charges were ever filed? Weird but such is.
My mom owned and operated a bar back in the 60's. Still has the sawed off pool cue she used on "ruffians".
Quote from: TJS;1052633Do you have a link?
That certainly puts a different spin on the situation.
Here is an image of his tweet before he started flushing everything down the memory hole. Please note that he is emphasizing that he is not joking by noting this is "Real talk".
[ATTACH=CONFIG]2771[/ATTACH]
Quote from: wmarshal;1052663Here is an image of his tweet before he started flushing everything down the memory hole. Please note that he is emphasizing that he is not joking by noting this is "Real talk".
snip (because directly above)
That's the tweet we already discussed. It's clearly not the one Warboss Squee was talking about.
Quote from: TJS;1052665That's the tweet we already discussed. It's clearly not the one Warboss Squee was talking about.
No it's not. Unfortunately, I can't find the one I am. Boils down to him stating that his was going to beat the shit out any nazis he found.
Quote from: Omega;1052260He hit him hard enough to break Hambleys glasses and burst blood vessels in one of his eyes.
Not sure about the glasses, but the eye injury is pretty apparent now, and it's crazy to think he'd attempt to fake that.
Quote from: soltakss;1052566To be fair, the incident happend in a bar outside GenCon, so they wouldn't really have any grounds on banning people.
Yeah they do, as their Code of Conduct does
not differentiate where harm done to and by their attendees takes place. However the alleged assailant did
not show up on the con floor after the attack, which means GenCon didn't have a chance to enforce a ban even if they instituted one.
Quote from: soltakss;1052570In the UK, everything is "alleged" until it is taken to court and then proven or not.
It's the same on this side of the pond. But as the #CtrlLeft likes to remind us, a convention isn't a court of law, and can ban whoever they want, including those who have only
allegedly done something.
Quote from: Almost_Useless;1052572I could have sworn we've seen cons banning people for all kinds of things that didn't happen at their con.
They've been banning people from attending cons for things which didn't even take place in the same state, let alone previous event.
Quote from: TJS;1052616and the video isn't particularly strong either - is the event in 2004 a real event or a joke
If it's real, then he should have been banned a long time ago.
If it's a joke, then he should
still have been banned a long time ago because he doesn't consider this kind of violence against con attendees to be a problem.
Seriously, would you want someone who jokes about assaulting attendees to attend
your convention?
Quote from: Warboss Squee;1052631Loter included GenCon in the tweet he put out that he was hunting people to punch. Meaning that GenCon got a notification about his intentions.
Now
that would have been the silver bullet. Shame you didn't archive it.
Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1052687Not sure about the glasses, but the eye injury is pretty apparent now, and it's crazy to think he'd attempt to fake that.
People self-harming to fake an attack is not without precedent.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/nov/05/woman-accused-of-faking-rape-bids-to-clear-name-layla-ibrahim
I think it's more likely that the attack took place as described, but just to point that out.
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1052693People self-harming to fake an attack is not without precedent.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/nov/05/woman-accused-of-faking-rape-bids-to-clear-name-layla-ibrahim
I think it's more likely that the attack took place as described, but just to point that out.
I just noticed you have Warduke in your avatar. That alone makes what you say truth.
Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;1052703I just noticed you have Warduke in your avatar. That alone makes what you say truth.
..
:D
Over on BGG the thread about its been closed because it was "hopelessly derailed" with a disturbing number over there siding with the attacker. New thread on the subject moved to RSnP to discuss things like the word hysterical being misogynistic. No. Im not joking. Which drew out this little gem.
QuoteSo basically, it was akin to all the people who whine about SJWs, triggered liberals that need safe places, blah, blah, blah.
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/2039001/are-game-conventions-now-going-become-war-zones-rs (https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/2039001/are-game-conventions-now-going-become-war-zones-rs)
Why did I go read that thread why?? The sad part is the same people downplaying what happened to Hambly would be on a frothing rage fit, pearl clutching, "my life is ruined and/or at a end, why are the police and Gencon not doing ANYTHING" epileptic rage inducing fit if it was a women, gay or trans-gendered person.
Quote from: sureshot;1052730Why did I go read that thread why?? The sad part is the same people downplaying what happened to Hambly would be on a frothing rage fit, pearl clutching, "my life is ruined and/or at a end, why are the police and Gencon not doing ANYTHING" epileptic rage inducing fit if it was a women, gay or trans-gendered person.
There is no "would be" here. They were. Let's not forget the stink that got raised around Origins this year where an exhibitor, in a bar after convention hours, after talking to an attendee for a few hours made a crude pass at her. Dear god you would have thought he tried to kill her by the reaction that got.
I am too old to think I should do or endorse it, but I would have LOVED for this matt guy to want to engage me in a fight over my feelings towards Sarkesian. Odd that he decided instead to just run up and assault the guy though. I would have handled it a bit differently than Jeremy did though, but to each his own.
Quote from: oggsmash;1052839I am too old to think I should do or endorse it, but I would have LOVED for this matt guy to want to engage me in a fight over my feelings towards Sarkesian. Odd that he decided instead to just run up and assault the guy though. I would have handled it a bit differently than Jeremy did though, but to each his own.
I think Hambly has handled it correctly. When you're ambushed I think it's often the best course of action to flee the site of the ambush. He was taken by surprise, had no way of being sure it was just one guy involved, and he had a means to fall back. Would have been different if he had family with him. Then he would have needed to stay with them in case they were attacked, too. If he fought back this would've just been of two idiots getting into a fight at a bar. I didn't know Hambly before this. Now that I do I have to say I don't get his hang ups about cosplayers, but people shouldn't be subject to assault just because of wrongthink. He'd have no ground to stand on at all if he had fought back. Who started it almost always gets lost in the conflicting stories of how a fight got started if both sides throw punches.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1052593OMG OMG OMG I would have SOOOO fucked with them.
What a bunch of worthless losers.
Glad you weren't there, then.
Me too! The country which had mosh pits at football games now has safety ninnies fretting at a gaming con! What a sad sad joke.
Quote from: wmarshal;1052866I think Hambly has handled it correctly. When you're ambushed I think it's often the best course of action to flee the site of the ambush. He was taken by surprise, had no way of being sure it was just one guy involved, and he had a means to fall back. Would have been different if he had family with him. Then he would have needed to stay with them in case they were attacked, too. If he fought back this would've just been of two idiots getting into a fight at a bar. I didn't know Hambly before this. Now that I do I have to say I don't get his hang ups about cosplayers, but people shouldn't be subject to assault just because of wrongthink. He'd have no ground to stand on at all if he had fought back. Who started it almost always gets lost in the conflicting stories of how a fight got started if both sides throw punches.
I do not disagree he handled best for himself. If he could handle his business physically I feel it would have been better to set the precedent at the bar. Like I said, the solution is not the same for everyone.
Quote from: oggsmash;1052978I do not disagree he handled best for himself. If he could handle his business physically I feel it would have been better to set the precedent at the bar. Like I said, the solution is not the same for everyone.
Invite him to your dojo if he has a problem with people criticizing Anita's presence. Wilder did it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lK22F4DGAL8
The problem there, is a guy like that would never show up. The zelontoff dude is a total asshat, but he does show up to take his beatings (with comic level hilarity). The guy saying he was a former krav maga instructor tells me pretty much all I needed to know about him. As I said though, I have no idea if Jeremy has ever even been in a fight before (the Matt dude thinks himself a bad ass because he is surrounded by folks who rarely get their heart rate over 90 on purpose) and did what he should in the situation. I think folks like Matt learn a bit better with a 6-8 week recovery period. The guy will probably be able to defend a lawsuit and assault charges with a go fund me or some such where he proports himself a nazi puncher.
... but punching wallets through time wasting legal bureacracy hurts so much more. :)
Quote from: Opaopajr;1052983... but punching wallets through time wasting legal bureacracy hurts so much more. :)
I think in this case not so much. The guy is single so far as I can tell (meaning no kids to support), and is likely barely getting by running a gaming store. His lifestyle is not going to take a hit even a little bit IMO. I would even say he is likely to double down on his radical activities. Punching the wallets of productive successful people hurts so much more. I think the dude in this case is not that.
Quote from: oggsmash;1052978I do not disagree he handled best for himself. If he could handle his business physically I feel it would have been better to set the precedent at the bar. Like I said, the solution is not the same for everyone.
If you leave the police and the courts out of the equation, you have a point. The cops find self-defense claims "messy" and you would certainly be arrested, although probably not convicted, if your witnesses backed your claim that you were attacked. Being arrested is a very bad thing for someone who wants to keep or attain a middle-class lifestyle. When I worked in a bookstore, I could get in fights. Arrests meant nothing to me. When I got a job in publishing, I had to be sure not to be caught. Now that I'm retired? hmmm
I have zero problem with Hambly using flight as his defense. He was ambushed and had no idea if his attacker was armed or had others to continue the attack. Black belts don't mean much if the ambush turns into a gunfight or a group beatdown. Also, real world violence =/= gym sparring or even competition matches. This ain't D&D or Hollywood or Street Fighter.
I am still unclear on HOW and WHY the bar's window was broken.
As for the criminal case, the victory would be the attacker being found guilty in a court of law for assault. That would open the door for a civil suit to be effective, but if you win a civil suit, good luck with collecting your money (even if they have assets). Its not uncommon to win a civil suit and never see your settlement.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1053040I have zero problem with Hambly using flight as his defense. He was ambushed and had no idea if his attacker was armed or had others to continue the attack. Black belts don't mean much if the ambush turns into a gunfight or a group beatdown. Also, real world violence =/= gym sparring or even competition matches. This ain't D&D or Hollywood or Street Fighter.
I am still unclear on HOW and WHY the bar's window was broken.
As for the criminal case, the victory would be the attacker being found guilty in a court of law for assault. That would open the door for a civil suit to be effective, but if you win a civil suit, good luck with collecting your money (even if they have assets). Its not uncommon to win a civil suit and never see your settlement.
You mean ten-string combos that end with a double-shoryuken isn't real?
Quote from: tenbones;1053042You mean ten-string combos that end with a double-shoryuken isn't real?
Hey! That happens!
Somewhere...
Quote from: oggsmash;1052839I am too old to think I should do or endorse it, but I would have LOVED for this matt guy to want to engage me in a fight over my feelings towards Sarkesian. Odd that he decided instead to just run up and assault the guy though. I would have handled it a bit differently than Jeremy did though, but to each his own.
[video]https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/bd78d2c5-ec19-45ac-831b-c0a235a49340#HyCl9XXGLm.copy[/youtube]
Like I said we handle things like this differently. I wouldn't be that shocked if most men under 40 have never been in a single fight their entire lives.
Quote from: oggsmash;1053052Like I said we handle things like this differently. I wouldn't be that shocked if most men under 40 have never been in a single fight their entire lives.
Lucky them.
Quote from: oggsmash;1053052I wouldn't be that shocked if most men under 40 have never been in a single fight their entire lives.
When I was working corrections and serving as a supervisor and assistant trainer for my facility, I was surprised by how few of my new hires had ever been in a fight before, and this is among a group of young men that are full of swagger.
Quote from: tenbones;1053042You mean ten-string combos that end with a double-shoryuken isn't real?
Well, if the assaulter was a Namco fighter, that would explain the broken window, as he likely already entered a preset combo before Hambly shifted to the side plane... :p
Quote from: oggsmash;1053052Like I said we handle things like this differently. I wouldn't be that shocked if most men under 40 have never been in a single fight their entire lives.
Well that's a good thing, no? If people have managed to avoid fighting until 40+ then they must be doing something right.
Quote from: The Exploited.;1053107Well that's a good thing, no? If people have managed to avoid fighting until 40+ then they must be doing something right.
If you've never gotten into a scuffle as a kid, you probably never actually had any friends, much less went outside.
Quote from: Brad;1053108If you've never gotten into a scuffle as a kid, you probably never actually had any friends, much less went outside.
Well, that's the thing isn't it... A kid's 'scuffle' is not exactly a street fight or a brawl. Kids bash each other all the time... You're supposed to know better when you are and adult.
Quote from: Brad;1053108If you've never gotten into a scuffle as a kid, you probably never actually had any friends, much less went outside.
Nowadays many of them just have such fights on social media.
Things seem to have quieted down.
Quote from: The Exploited.;1053115Well, that's the thing isn't it... A kid's 'scuffle' is not exactly a street fight or a brawl. Kids bash each other all the time... You're supposed to know better when you are and adult.
Precisely. You get into fights when you're a kid and figure that stuff out. Adults who have never been in any sort of confrontation have zero clue about how to deal with the situation. Hence all the road rage incidents, Facebook/Twitter bullying, bullshit callouts in bars where dudes get sucker punched, etc.
Quote from: The Exploited.;1053115Well, that's the thing isn't it... A kid's 'scuffle' is not exactly a street fight or a brawl. Kids bash each other all the time... You're supposed to know better when you are and adult.
If only...
Quote from: Brad;1053128Precisely. You get into fights when you're a kid and figure that stuff out. Adults who have never been in any sort of confrontation have zero clue about how to deal with the situation. Hence all the road rage incidents, Facebook/Twitter bullying, bullshit callouts in bars where dudes get sucker punched, etc.
From my observations 95% of adults cannot fight their way out of a paper bag. Because it's a lost skill... Average people just don't need to be able to fight. Anyone can be sucker punched if they don't understand the attack ritual.
People who win fights tend to be highly aggressive, punch first and then just continue attacking capitalizing on their momentum. It's the classic mugger or a gratuitous attacker's MO. it's very hard to deal with it if you don't understand modern violence or the 'three second fighter' as legendary doorman Geoff Thompson called it.
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1053129If only...
Yeah... 'aint that the truth mate.
Quote from: The Exploited.;1053130From my observations 95% of adults cannot fight their way out of a paper bag. Because it's a lost skill... Average people just don't need to be able to fight. Anyone can be sucker punched if they don't understand the attack ritual.
People who win fights tend to be highly aggressive, punch first and then just continue attacking capitalizing on their momentum. It's the classic mugger or a gratuitous attacker's MO. it's very hard to deal with it if you don't understand modern violence or the 'three second fighter' as legendary doorman Geoff Thompson called it.
Yeah, I'm advocating for NOT having fights in a civilized society; when you're younger, you figure out that starting shit with the wrong people usually ends up with you getting your ass kicked. Also, this is why carrying is a good idea...never know when some lunatic will decide randomly assault someone.
Quote from: The Exploited.;1053130From my observations 95% of adults cannot fight their way out of a paper bag. Because it's a lost skill... Average people just don't need to be able to fight. Anyone can be sucker punched if they don't understand the attack ritual.
Martial Arts Class
Student: "Master, how do I defend myself when I am in a seedy bar, and when I leave, a suspicious man follow me and..."
Master: "Don't go to a seedy bar in the first place."
Quote from: Brad;1053134Also, this is why carrying is a good idea...
To paraphrase another one of my other heroes Kelly McCann, hand-to-hand combat is only for those foolish enough to get caught without a weapon.
However, for us Europeans carrying a weapon can lead you into a lot of trouble. In my country, in theory anyway, I could have a five year prison sentence just for carrying a blade. Of course, this doesn't deter scumbag criminals. :(
Quote from: Pyromancer;1053135Martial Arts Class
Student: "Master, how do I defend myself when I am in a seedy bar, and when I leave, a suspicious man follow me and..."
Master: "Don't go to a seedy bar in the first place."
Absolutely for the most part. However, bad people go to good places, unfortunately.
Quote from: Pyromancer;1053135Martial Arts Class
Student: "Master, how do I defend myself when I am in a seedy bar, and when I leave, a suspicious man follow me and..."
Master: "Don't go to a seedy bar in the first place."
Sad to say, this gets turned around into a 'blaming the victim' accusation quite easily, because the student has the right to go to the seedy bar.
Quote from: Pyromancer;1053135Martial Arts Class
Student: "Master, how do I defend myself when I am in a seedy bar, and when I leave, a suspicious man follow me and..."
Master: "Don't go to a seedy bar in the first place."
The Master is wrong. According to the "logic" of the day we need to teach men to not be suspicious and not follow people out of bars.
Quote from: Brad;1053108If you've never gotten into a scuffle as a kid, you probably never actually had any friends, much less went outside.
That's probably true for guys over 40 or 45. But from what I see at my kids' schools, school-yard fights - and I mean real fights, not just shoving on the playground - are extremely rare these days. When I was a kid in the 70s and 80s, two weeks didn't go by when a couple boys weren't rolling around the school yard punching one another in the face. That might happen once a year now.
Quote from: Haffrung;1053147That's probably true for guys over 40 or 45. But from what I see at my kids' schools, school-yard fights - and I mean real fights, not just shoving on the playground - are extremely rare these days. When I was a kid in the 70s and 80s, two weeks didn't go by when a couple boys weren't rolling around the school yard punching one another in the face. That might happen once a year now.
I do worry a bit about this - the schoolteachers often don't allow even basic roughhousing, and monitor strictly for the playground fights we all had as kids in the '80s. I don't think it's at all good for socialisation for boys. It means their reactions are often inappropriate and they don't understand (de)escalation rituals. It can lead to real, extreme, deadly violence.
Quote from: S'mon;1053155I do worry a bit about this - the schoolteachers often don't allow even basic roughhousing, and monitor strictly for the playground fights we all had as kids in the '80s. I don't think it's at all good for socialisation for boys. It means their reactions are often inappropriate and they don't understand (de)escalation rituals. It can lead to real, extreme, deadly violence.
Agreed. There's basically zero tolerance for any rough play on the school ground. A quarter of the boys are on behaviour-modifying drugs. Elementary (and increasingly junior high) school teachers are all women, and very mild-natured women at that. And as you say, boys don't learn escalation, and where to draw the line. I've seen some reports that while low-level violence has decreased dramatically among young boys, lethal violence has not decreased among teens. Which suggests an angry 16-year-old's first explosion of violence will often have none of the restraint or escalation you mention. They don't know that when you're an almost fully-grown man, one blow or strike can kill someone.
Quote from: rgalex;1053141The Master is wrong. According to the "logic" of the day we need to teach men to not be suspicious and not follow people out of bars.
Only if it's a woman asking the question.
Quote from: S'mon;1053155I do worry a bit about this - the schoolteachers often don't allow even basic roughhousing, and monitor strictly for the playground fights we all had as kids in the '80s. I don't think it's at all good for socialisation for boys. It means their reactions are often inappropriate and they don't understand (de)escalation rituals. It can lead to real, extreme, deadly violence.
Quote from: Haffrung;1053158Agreed. There's basically zero tolerance for any rough play on the school ground. A quarter of the boys are on behaviour-modifying drugs. Elementary (and increasingly junior high) school teachers are all women, and very mild-natured women at that. And as you say, boys don't learn escalation, and where to draw the line. I've seen some reports that while low-level violence has decreased dramatically among young boys, lethal violence has not decreased among teens. Which suggests an angry 16-year-old's first explosion of violence will often have none of the restraint or escalation you mention. They don't know that when you're an almost fully-grown man, one blow or strike can kill someone.
I'd want some kind of objective metric that shows this problem. In general, lethal violence in the U.S. has been decreasing since it's peak around 1990 - and that goes for both teens and adults.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]2781[/ATTACH]
Source: https://www.childtrends.org/indicators/teen-homicide-suicide-and-firearm-deaths
So I'm not convinced that there is a growing problem of deadly violence among male teens.
That said, I have no problem with getting more men to teach elementary school. I think it would be great to get men involved there. (I'm trained as a secondary school teacher myself, though currently working in educational tech.) As for the zero tolerance policies - I'm against out-of-school suspension and expulsion for fights, but I'm leery of teachers letting kids get beat up just so boys can be boys.
Quote from: Haffrung;1053147That's probably true for guys over 40 or 45. But from what I see at my kids' schools, school-yard fights - and I mean real fights, not just shoving on the playground - are extremely rare these days. When I was a kid in the 70s and 80s, two weeks didn't go by when a couple boys weren't rolling around the school yard punching one another in the face. That might happen once a year now.
That was due to peak lead gradually washing out of the environment after banned leaded gasoline and the final outpacing of refined petroleum & gas vs. coal. :)
It took 150 years for the California Gold Rush consequences to finally peak its annual rising turbidity of the SF Bay estuary waters. It takes time for these pollutants to cycle through the ecology and reseek equilibrium.
(Yes, that means you should all do a liver cleanse and high colonic. :p )
Quote from: rgalex;1053141The Master is wrong. According to the "logic" of the day we need to teach men to not be suspicious and not follow people out of bars.
Men AND women. My dad has had a few gals follow him out of a bar and try to get in his car.
Quote from: Opaopajr;1053099Well, if the assaulter was a Namco fighter, that would explain the broken window, as he likely already entered a preset combo before Hambly shifted to the side plane... :p
Now that you have won the internet, what are your plans for it?
Quote from: Omega;1053192My dad has had a few gals follow him out of a bar and try to get in his car.
Isn't that the whole point of going to a bar???
Quote from: Spinachcat;1053201Isn't that the whole point of going to a bar???
For alot of people apparently. No? And especially not when they are trying to force themselves on you and didnt take multiple "NO!"s for an answer. In one case he just drove to the police station... :D
And one of the local gaming groups sometimes drops in at a bar when they take a break from a session since its got a sizable restaurant too. And a bowling alley. Which seems fairly common? Local costuming group used to meet there monthly at the bowling section.
Quote from: Omega;1053220In one case he just drove to the police station... :D
"Officer, this woman is trying to fuck me!" was probably the most memorable line that precinct ever had in a report!
But joking aside, sloppy drunks are creepy and rarely hot enough to be worth the drama.
Quote from: Omega;1053220For alot of people apparently. No? And especially not when they are trying to force themselves on you and didnt take multiple "NO!"s for an answer.
I had a similar incident happen when I was at a concert. An older woman kept trying to talk to me, and I kept ignoring her. Then she put her hand around my wrist, and tried to get me up out of my stool at the bar and go to the front of the stage with her. I asked her politely to let go twice, and she wouldn't. Third time I used a tone of voice that made it clear I wasn't putting up with her shit. Thankfully she let go and walked off. I was ready to signal the bartender to ask her to get the bouncer (because I wasn't going to do anything to get myself in trouble, though I admit I was tempted for a moment). The couple near me looked at her like she was nuts (they heard me raise my voice the third time I asked her to let go of my wrist). Soon as the concert was over, I took off (the club stays open an hour after the concert ends, but I wasn't in the mood to hang around after that).
Quote from: Spinachcat;1053201Now that you have won the internet, what are your plans for it?
Why, become a benevolent absurdist dictatorship, of course! :D
We'll doxx park squirrels, disappear kitchen cockroaches, and stifle children's dissent about what's for dinner... and pay for all these things in beaded jewelry from Etsy!
But honestly though, we could all benefit from Etiquette Reeducation Camps. ;) Don't worry, the guards will apologize for having to whip the impolite prisoners. (Most of Tumblr probably will not survive unscathed... :( )
Quote from: Spinachcat;1053289But joking aside, sloppy drunks are creepy and rarely hot enough to be worth the drama.
With all due respect to people who find bar/clubs fun, I find them boring and/or full of sloppy drunks.
Only reason I'd go is to accompany friends.
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1053358With all due respect to people who find bar/clubs fun, I find them boring and/or full of sloppy drunks.
Only reason I'd go is to accompany friends.
That has pretty much been me as well.
Back on topic.
How much does GenCon actually sprawl now outside the convention site? As noted earlier back in the 90s when it was still in Wisconsin it would sprawl out to the hotels as much as a block away sometimes.
Quote from: Omega;1053364That has pretty much been me as well.
Back on topic.
How much does GenCon actually sprawl now outside the convention site? As noted earlier back in the 90s when it was still in Wisconsin it would sprawl out to the hotels as much as a block away sometimes.
They were running events/seminars in other buildings around the convention centers when I went in 2016. Plus that stadium a few blocks away where they had the LARP and other events. I know I saw convention goers at places to eat at least 4 blocks away
Quote from: Spinachcat;1053201Isn't that the whole point of going to a bar???
I get a kick out of the way people who don't go to bars imagine them as dens of debauchery and vice. The vast majority of people go to bars to have a couple drinks with friends or their partners, share the travails of their workaday lives, get a bite to eat, and maybe watch some sports. I'd be surprised if even 1 per cent of the people who went to a bar in my city last night went home with someone they met.
double-post
Quote from: Haffrung;1053407I get a kick out of the way people who don't go to bars imagine them as dens of debauchery and vice. The vast majority of people go to bars to have a couple drinks with friends or their partners, share the travails of their workaday lives, get a bite to eat, and maybe watch some sports. I'd be surprised if even 1 per cent of the people who went to a bar in my city last night went home with someone they met.
I think that we go to different bars....
EDIT: Holy crap! Sorry about the multiple posts.
Quote from: Haffrung;1053407I get a kick out of the way people who don't go to bars imagine them as dens of debauchery and vice. The vast majority of people go to bars to have a couple drinks with friends or their partners, share the travails of their workaday lives, get a bite to eat, and maybe watch some sports. I'd be surprised if even 1 per cent of the people who went to a bar in my city last night went home with someone they met.
I think that we go to different bars....
Quote from: Haffrung;1053406I get a kick out of the way people who don't go to bars imagine them as dens of debauchery and vice. The vast majority of people go to bars to have a couple drinks with friends or their partners, share the travails of their workaday lives, get a bite to eat, and maybe watch some sports. I'd be surprised if even 1 per cent of the people who went to a bar in my city last night went home with someone they met.
I think that we go to different bars....
Quote from: urbwar;1053396They were running events/seminars in other buildings around the convention centers when I went in 2016. Plus that stadium a few blocks away where they had the LARP and other events. I know I saw convention goers at places to eat at least 4 blocks away
Every hotel with side rooms is used for gaming AFAIK. Lucas Oil stadium was used for the first time a year or two ago and adds several hundred more tables.
Their trade hall could be twice the size and still would feel busy.
I think Gen Con has an excellent relationship with the city, plus Indiana is pretty geographically central, so I don't anticipate Gen Con relocating anytime soon, although it could certainly be justified.
QuoteThe Indiana Convention Center now boasts 1.2 million square feet of space, including 749,000 square feet of exhibition space combined between the Convention Center and Lucas Oil Stadium. The center also has 113,302 square feet of meeting rooms and 62,173 square feet of ballroom space.
Quote1. McCormick Place (Chicago, IL) 2,600,000 sf
2. Orange County Convention Center (Orlando, FL) 2,100,000 sf
3. Las Vegas Convention Center (Las Vegas, NV) 1,940,631 sf
4. Georgia World Congress Center (Atlanta, GA) 1,400,000 sf
5. Sands Expo & Convention Center/
The Venetian | The Palazzo Resort Hotel Casino (Las Vegas, NV) 1,305,052 sf
6.* Kentucky Exposition Center (Louisville, KY) 1,100,000 sf
7.* New Orleans Ernest N. Morial Convention Center (New Orleans, LA) 1,100,000 sf
8. Reliant Park (Houston, TX) 1,056,213 sf
9. International Exposition Center (I-X Center) (Cleveland, OH) 1,050,000 sf
10. Kay Bailey Hutchison Convention Center, formerly Dallas Convention Center (Dallas, TX) 1,018,942 sf
Any word on the GenCon drama?
Did the cops do anything?
Did the McJackass attacker re-emerge on social media?
Did Hambly get a lawyer to file anything?
Or has the whole thing gone poof?
Quote from: Haffrung;1053406I get a kick out of the way people who don't go to bars imagine them as dens of debauchery and vice.
I never cared where the town drunks hung out. I went to where the young horny women hung out. Of course, those places are generally called "nightclubs" (or now "gastropubs") instead of bars.
But I'm from LA and hung out on Sunset Strip since the hair metal days, so perhaps "dens of debauchery and vice" is my baseline expectation!
Quote from: Haffrung;1053406I'd be surprised if even 1 per cent of the people who went to a bar in my city last night went home with someone they met.
If your town has gay bars, that percentage is significantly higher! So sorry your town's straight dudes lack game!
Quote from: Motorskills;1053430Every hotel with side rooms is used for gaming AFAIK. Lucas Oil stadium was used for the first time a year or two ago and adds several hundred more tables.
Their trade hall could be twice the size and still would feel busy.
I think Gen Con has an excellent relationship with the city, plus Indiana is pretty geographically central, so I don't anticipate Gen Con relocating anytime soon, although it could certainly be justified.
Well, they did virtue signal and threaten to leave about 3 years ago....... (https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?31945-Gen-Con-to-Possibly-Leave-Indiana-politics)
Quote from: jeff37923;1053450Well, they did virtue signal and threaten to leave about 3 years ago....... (https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?31945-Gen-Con-to-Possibly-Leave-Indiana-politics)
[Since you quoted me]
The city (i.e. key business interests within the city, not least the convention center itself / hotels / restaurants, etc) were on Gen Con's side. The ordinance(?) was pushed by conservative / evangelical interests that are based in the more rural areas (which in Indiana is a
lot of real estate).
But I'm also pretty sure it wasn't just Gen Con, other businesses / employers were threatening to leave / boycott the city. It wasn't much of a contest really, the bill was withdrawn pretty quickly, with coughed claims of it being overblown etc.
What made the thing more high-profile was that it was Mike Pence himself signing the ordinance, the circulation of the signing photo that showed just how loathsome the line-up of backers of the bill was, plus the fact that gamers cut across a fair few demographics and are social medi-savvy etc. But it wasn't the first case of its kind, IIRC the NCAA was going to boycott Charlotte or somesuch on similar grounds.
Quote from: Motorskills;1053452[Since you quoted me]
The city (i.e. key business interests within the city, not least the convention center itself / hotels / restaurants, etc) were on Gen Con's side. The ordinance(?) was pushed by conservative / evangelical interests that are based in the more rural areas (which in Indiana is a lot of real estate).
But I'm also pretty sure it wasn't just Gen Con, other businesses / employers were threatening to leave / boycott the city. It wasn't much of a contest really, the bill was withdrawn pretty quickly, with coughed claims of it being overblown etc.
What made the thing more high-profile was that it was Mike Pence himself signing the ordinance, the circulation of the signing photo that showed just how loathsome the line-up of backers of the bill was, plus the fact that gamers cut across a fair few demographics and are social medi-savvy etc. But it wasn't the first case of its kind, IIRC the NCAA was going to boycott Charlotte or somesuch on similar grounds.
You need to read that whole linked thread (https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?31945-Gen-Con-to-Possibly-Leave-Indiana-politics) and not whatever social justice synopsis of the event you looked up.
Why? Because the ordinance (Can you even name it?) wasn't being pushed by rural conservatives and evangelicals, it was being pushed by small businesses that didn't want to go through the same crap that Masterpiece Cakeshop is currently going through (https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?39080-Masterpiece-Cakeshop-Wins-Supreme-Court-Case-7-2). GenCon was virtue signalling because they have a contract with the venue through 2020, and so had no intention to leave. Mike Pence was a nobody before the bill and not even in consideration for Vice President of the USA at the time.
Do your homework, fuck-o.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1053443Any word on the GenCon drama?
Did the cops do anything?
Did the McJackass attacker re-emerge on social media?
Did Hambly get a lawyer to file anything?
Or has the whole thing gone poof?
Jeremy did a vid on this.
The SJW douche got fired from his job teaching game theory at a college.
Charges were filed and he's being sued. Apparently things are in motion but yoiu know how slow our system can be.
If you go to the Quartering channel on youtube he has his vid on it.
Quote from: baran_i_kanu;1053462Jeremy did a vid on this.
The SJW douche got fired from his job teaching game theory at a college.
Charges were filed and he's being sued. Apparently things are in motion but yoiu know how slow our system can b
If you go to the Quartering channel on youtube he has his vid on it.
Glad to hear it. It's as if people don't have a basic survival skill. "Let me go publicly punch someone and tell everyone about it" Yet somehow they expect not to be fired from or reprimanded at work. It boggles my mind. If I tried that stuff one too many times my entire family and most of my friends would disown me. Lack of any kind of help of any kind from family and friends does wonders on ones behavior. The issue is family tends to do the stupid thing and forgive and forget so they learn nothing.
Quote from: sureshot;1053493Glad to hear it. It's as if people don't have a basic survival skill. "Let me go publicly punch someone and tell everyone about it" Yet somehow they expect not to be fired from or reprimanded at work. It boggles my mind. If I tried that stuff one too many times my entire family and most of my friends would disown me. Lack of any kind of help of any kind from family and friends does wonders on ones behavior. The issue is family tends to do the stupid thing and forgive and forget so they learn nothing.
People who do thing kind of thing (especially to complete strangers) are generally not mentally well-balanced people.
Quote from: TJS;1053547People who do thing kind of thing (especially to complete strangers) are generally not mentally well-balanced people.
True but I and some I know not to go up to a random person and simply start throwing punches. Hambly attacker was lucky he was not carrying a gun. Most people in that situation who are armed with a weapon are more "shoot/swing first ask questions later". It's poor parenting coupled with too many people going around with undiagnosed mental illness. If Hambly attacker was a friend he would be dead to me because who knows when he may turn on me. If a family member especially a close one I would kick his ass. If I tried that shit my dad if he was alive would take a two by four and kick my ass. My mom would forbid me from going over to their place. I would lose most if not all my friends.
Quote from: jeff37923;1053408I think that we go to different bars....
EDIT: Holy crap! Sorry about the multiple posts.
Don't post immediately after hitting those bars! :p
Quote from: The Exploited.;1053130From my observations 95% of adults cannot fight their way out of a paper bag. Because it's a lost skill... Average people just don't need to be able to fight. Anyone can be sucker punched if they don't understand the attack ritual.
People who win fights tend to be highly aggressive, punch first and then just continue attacking capitalizing on their momentum. It's the classic mugger or a gratuitous attacker's MO. it's very hard to deal with it if you don't understand modern violence or the 'three second fighter' as legendary doorman Geoff Thompson called it.
I think your estimate is generous to be honest, or maybe the odds are better in Europe. In the USA we used to figure out these things as kids as people have mentioned. Most schools have a zero tolerance policy for violence and retaliation to an attacker in school gets you suspended. I know it looks like the attacker in this case is getting to pay some consequences. I just hope people wanting to take violent action from internet interactions doesn't continue to escalate.
Quote from: oggsmash;1053694I think your estimate is generous to be honest, or maybe the odds are better in Europe. In the USA we used to figure out these things as kids as people have mentioned. Most schools have a zero tolerance policy for violence and retaliation to an attacker in school gets you suspended.
It does make you think though about the number of kids programs for martial arts. I knew just a couple of people that did it when I was a kid, but now, enrolling your kid in a martial arts program is far, far more common.
Quote from: Lynn;1053700It does make you think though about the number of kids programs for martial arts. I knew just a couple of people that did it when I was a kid, but now, enrolling your kid in a martial arts program is far, far more common.
Depends on the program. Most "martial arts" places do not really prepare kids for a street-fight. You'll know these immediately by their lack of emphasis on sparring.
But a high-school wrestler, or a kid that goes to a boxing gym, or legit BJJ studio... then you're talking a different ballgame in a streetfight. Generally speaking of course.
Experience matters. Most normies on the street don't actively engage in fisticuffs. But wrestlers, and BJJ, Boxing/Muay Thai schools generally emphasize a lot of sparring. Plus they're learning practical techniques that work. It makes a huge difference.
Edit: but I generally agree with you. There are a lot more quality training facilities for kids these days.
Quote from: tenbones;1053703Depends on the program. Most "martial arts" places do not really prepare kids for a street-fight. You'll know these immediately by their lack of emphasis on sparring.
But a high-school wrestler, or a kid that goes to a boxing gym, or legit BJJ studio... then you're talking a different ballgame in a streetfight. Generally speaking of course.
Experience matters. Most normies on the street don't actively engage in fisticuffs. But wrestlers, and BJJ, Boxing/Muay Thai schools generally emphasize a lot of sparring. Plus they're learning practical techniques that work. It makes a huge difference.
Edit: but I generally agree with you. There are a lot more quality training facilities for kids these days.
How much do martial arts schools (any type) actually teach situational awareness? From my limited experience, the main thing on the street is to be aware some guy is about to take a swing at you, so you can block* it. Much more than actually winning a fight.
*IME the kind of guy who takes random swings at people tends to be eminently blockable. Real big scary looking guys don't tend to do this.
The numbers of kids in martial arts programs I can not attest to on a national scale. I do think things like BJJ schools are much more common now than say 20 years ago. That combined with no tolerance policy and a....curbing of physical rowdiness for kids has created a market for kids doing BJJ at least in my area, as many parents want their kids to be able to fend for themselves if an altercation becomes physical. I know adults at lots of martial arts schools go over situational awareness, but honestly the people I say train the most fall into two categories, ones who will likely never get in a fight (white collar employment, good sense, don't hang around rooms full of drunks) or will definitely be in a fight (police officers). This does t include amateur and professional fighters, since I know none of those personally who get into street fights (not that some don't, but despite being hyper prepared it just doesn't happen much). I always tell people, anyone who comes to me who gets into multiple fights as an adult who is not a cop/ bouncer/similar, they need counseling not training in how to fight. I suspect our aggressor in this story is one of those. He said he was a Krav Maga "instructor" but that is a very relative term IME with Krav Maga.
Quote from: baran_i_kanu;1053462Jeremy did a vid on this.
The SJW douche got fired from his job teaching game theory at a college.
Charges were filed and he's being sued. Apparently things are in motion but yoiu know how slow our system can be.
If you go to the Quartering channel on youtube he has his vid on it.
I am glad proper channels are being (mostly) followed. I still dislike the college punishing before guilt is proven, but I also understand issues of institutional CYA (cover your ass). It is sad it has come to this among nerdy adults, (because this is a demographic of people who I think should know better, and at least know how to use their words,). But hopefully this "wallet-punching for restitution" will remind people to keep things civil in-person.
Opening the floodgates to incivility invites the deluge... :eek:
Agreed. I'd far rather employers waiting for a verdict, or at least an arrest....in all cases.
My friend's stepson is in martial arts and his quote? "I wish it was more like Cobra Kai."
Quote from: S'mon;1053707How much do martial arts schools (any type) actually teach situational awareness? From my limited experience, the main thing on the street is to be aware some guy is about to take a swing at you, so you can block* it. Much more than actually winning a fight.
*IME the kind of guy who takes random swings at people tends to be eminently blockable. Real big scary looking guys don't tend to do this.
Depends. I know in Gracie BJJ (Machado's too) they generally are very big about de-escalation, but ultimately you're there to roll. So yaknow, you're gonna roll. But anyone that does this stuff seriously, even as a hobby, comes to understand once they have a certain level of proficiency that fighting is usually very unnecessary because at a certain point it's not really a fight. An average person isn't going to stand a chance against your average BJJ blue-belt+, or someone with a few years of wrestling/boxing/Muay-Thai under their belt where they were really doing the work.
Mind you I'm not talking about getting cold-cocked. When it's on, it's on. So it varies depending on who you train with. But *generally* most of the big BJJ studios with known pedigrees are pretty solid and emphasize de-escalation as a norm because you never know what you're going to get into. And grappling doesn't do you much good when his buddy has a knife or brick to brain you with.
When it comes to normies just randomly swinging at you. Sure. This is where we leave situational awareness and go into the sub-category of "Fight IQ". Most people that haven't done any kind of combat sports, and even then, until you have a lot of experience - everyone generally has the Fight IQ of a retard.
People fall into the adrenaline rush, don't know how to control it, and it becomes a spastic attempt at egg-beating your opponent senseless. Even people that practice martial arts but don't do a lot of active sparring, take a couple of seconds to calibrate to bring their skills in-line. In those couple of seconds you gotta size up your opponent, but also hopefully engage your Situational Awareness too (are they alone? weapon? is this a good place to deal with this? Any exits to bolt to? etc). But assuming it's going to turn into an engagement, cool heads and a few good techniques will take you quite far.
This is why grapplers are in my opinion generally more dangerous and why I recommend sending your kids to wrestling and BJJ programs. When you engage in grappling styles you go 100% in training. Repeatedly. And the vast majority of people don't really know how to defend against takedowns, trips, etc. or worse, locks and large/small joint manipulation, chokes etc. Normies wanna flail and eggbeat and pretend they know how to "box". When in reality they don't know anything other than what they saw in a movie.
*I'm biased. I wrestled for 6-years.
Is the douchebag still listed as a guest in the upcoming PAX con?
The attacker deserves to be convicted. No question about that. And I truly hope he gets what he has coming to him.
However. Hambly was at what has been traditionally been a WOTC event. GenCon has always been that. And WOTC banned him from all of their events. So there is some blame coming their way because of his ability to attend an event where he otherwise should have been banned.
Does that justify the attacker attacking him? Not at all. But WOTC possesses a certain responsibility in not standing up to the fact they have banned him from all of their other events. They enabled the situation by not acting.
I'm not going to argue whether their ban was justified or not. It is what it is.
WOTC sold GenCon almost 20 years ago.
Quote from: EOTB;1053751WOTC sold GenCon almost 20 years ago.
And whatever the case, he wasn't assaulted at Gencon anyway, he was assaulted in a pub OUTSIDE Gencon, so it's irrelevant whether he should have been banned or not although as pointed out by yourself, it's not a WOTC event anyway.
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1053750The attacker deserves to be convicted. No question about that. And I truly hope he gets what he has coming to him.
However. Hambly was at what has been traditionally been a WOTC event. GenCon has always been that. And WOTC banned him from all of their events. So there is some blame coming their way because of his ability to attend an event where he otherwise should have been banned.
Does that justify the attacker attacking him? Not at all. But WOTC possesses a certain responsibility in not standing up to the fact they have banned him from all of their other events. They enabled the situation by not acting.
I'm not going to argue whether their ban was justified or not. It is what it is.
He was only banned as I believe a reporter because he spoke out against WOTCs increasingly funky handling of MTG tournaments or somesuch. He has not been banned as a regular attendee. If I recall right, reporters get in for free or reduced cost. So Hambly just bought a pass.
Quote from: EOTB;1053751WOTC sold GenCon almost 20 years ago.
Not sure for how long but Andon Games or its creator handled GenCon for several years for TSR and probably for WOTC when they bought TSR.
The 3pm Friday panel he was supposed be on seems to be MIA
https://web.archive.org/web/20180203123730/http://west.paxsite.com:80/schedule/panel/the-life-and-times-of-a-board-game (https://web.archive.org/web/20180203123730/http://west.paxsite.com:80/schedule/panel/the-life-and-times-of-a-board-game)
http://west.paxsite.com:80/schedule/panel/the-life-and-times-of-a-board-game (http://west.paxsite.com:80/schedule/panel/the-life-and-times-of-a-board-game)
The webarchve link you gave seems to refer to the 2017 con, not the current one. So it might just be the case he wasn't going to have a presence at PAX this year to begin with.
Quote from: danskmacabre;1053753And whatever the case, he wasn't assaulted at Gencon anyway, he was assaulted in a pub OUTSIDE Gencon, so it's irrelevant whether he should have been banned or not although as pointed out by yourself, it's not a WOTC event anyway.
If a featured vendor grabbed a girl by the pussy at a GenCon after-party (not at the venue) and she reported it to the police and GenCon what do you think the response would have been?
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1053750However. Hambly was at what has been traditionally been a WOTC event.
What decade are you living in, and can I ask you to make some stock investments for me from the past?
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1053750The attacker deserves to be convicted. No question about that. And I truly hope he gets what he has coming to him.
However. Hambly was at what has been traditionally been a WOTC event. GenCon has always been that. And WOTC banned him from all of their events. So there is some blame coming their way because of his ability to attend an event where he otherwise should have been banned.
Does that justify the attacker attacking him? Not at all. But WOTC possesses a certain responsibility in not standing up to the fact they have banned him from all of their other events. They enabled the situation by not acting.
I'm not going to argue whether their ban was justified or not. It is what it is.
"Ma'am you should not have worn that dress to that bar. If you weren't there the rape wouldn't have happened."
Quote from: Gagarth;1053774The 3pm Friday panel he was supposed be on seems to be MIA
https://web.archive.org/web/20180203123730/http://west.paxsite.com:80/schedule/panel/the-life-and-times-of-a-board-game (https://web.archive.org/web/20180203123730/http://west.paxsite.com:80/schedule/panel/the-life-and-times-of-a-board-game)
http://west.paxsite.com:80/schedule/panel/the-life-and-times-of-a-board-game (http://west.paxsite.com:80/schedule/panel/the-life-and-times-of-a-board-game)
Fucking google and way back
http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=%22Matt+Fantastic%22+and+%22pax+west%22&d=4792583964270183&mkt=en-GB&setlang=en-GB&w=xoCEKXRV-72DalhKWg0blN5EP-caxk3p (http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=%22Matt+Fantastic%22+and+%22pax+west%22&d=4792583964270183&mkt=en-GB&setlang=en-GB&w=xoCEKXRV-72DalhKWg0blN5EP-caxk3p)
http://west.paxsite.com/schedule/panel/double-game-tabletop-design-hour (http://west.paxsite.com/schedule/panel/double-game-tabletop-design-hour)
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Quote from: Gagarth;1053820Fucking google and way back
http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=%22Matt+Fantastic%22+and+%22pax+west%22&d=4792583964270183&mkt=en-GB&setlang=en-GB&w=xoCEKXRV-72DalhKWg0blN5EP-caxk3p (http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=%22Matt+Fantastic%22+and+%22pax+west%22&d=4792583964270183&mkt=en-GB&setlang=en-GB&w=xoCEKXRV-72DalhKWg0blN5EP-caxk3p)
http://west.paxsite.com/schedule/panel/double-game-tabletop-design-hour (http://west.paxsite.com/schedule/panel/double-game-tabletop-design-hour)
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I'm not sure what you're trying to show. The one that actually talks about Matt is also set for Firday, September 1--which does not occur in 2018.
Quote from: Gagarth;1053820Fucking google and way back
http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=%22Matt+Fantastic%22+and+%22pax+west%22&d=4792583964270183&mkt=en-GB&setlang=en-GB&w=xoCEKXRV-72DalhKWg0blN5EP-caxk3p (http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=%22Matt+Fantastic%22+and+%22pax+west%22&d=4792583964270183&mkt=en-GB&setlang=en-GB&w=xoCEKXRV-72DalhKWg0blN5EP-caxk3p)
http://west.paxsite.com/schedule/panel/double-game-tabletop-design-hour (http://west.paxsite.com/schedule/panel/double-game-tabletop-design-hour)
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What is cc.bingj.com? I can't find any real info about that site being an archival site. As far as I can tell that's just a link to an image, but there's no real way to verify its accuracy. I'm not trying to stand up for Matt, but for all I can tell that image is a photoshop job. I don't know that it is fake, but I have little current basis to trust it.
Quote from: KingCheops;1053798If a featured vendor grabbed a girl by the pussy at a GenCon after-party (not at the venue) and she reported it to the police and GenCon what do you think the response would have been?
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make in response to my above statement.
However to clarify. My views on the matter follows.
The guy who got assaulted should not have been banned from Gencon (he wasn't so all good).
He should not have been assaulted.
The guy who assaulted him should be prosecuted.
If he was present at a after Gencon party off site, him being assaulted should be treated as seriously as a woman who got sexually assaulted, although in your example, you can be sure Gencon would have been falling over themselves supporting her.
As far as I know, he was not supported by Gencon or even a statement, which I feel they should have said something about not approving of him being assaulted at the very least.
All in all, it was handled terribly and people cheering on his assault are pretty awful.
Quote from: danskmacabre;1053830I'm not sure what point you're trying to make in response to my above statement.
However to clarify. My views on the matter follows.
The guy who got assaulted should not have been banned from Gencon (he wasn't so all good).
He should not have been assaulted.
The guy who assaulted him should be prosecuted.
If he was present at a after Gencon party off site, him being assaulted should be treated as seriously as a woman who got sexually assaulted, although in your example, you can be sure Gencon would have been falling over themselves supporting her.
As far as I know, he was not supported by Gencon or even a statement, which I feel they should have said something about not approving of him being assaulted at the very least.
All in all, it was handled terribly and people cheering on his assault are pretty awful.
The point is that in either case the alleged criminal should have been barred from the venue and his booth removed. This is likely what would have happened in the sexual assault scenario.
You seem to be of the opinion that if it happens away from an official venue there should be no official response. So if my hypothetical woman was assaulted at a non-official venue you feel an exhibitor shouldn't be removed from the convention? Remember the attacker was an exhibitor and was in fact featured
the very next day on their Facebook page.
Quote from: KingCheops;1053848You seem to be of the opinion that if it happens away from an official venue there should be no official response. So if my hypothetical woman was assaulted at a non-official venue you feel an exhibitor shouldn't be removed from the convention? Remember the attacker was an exhibitor and was in fact featured the very next day on their Facebook page.
Sorry, I think I'm missing something here. So I need some clarity before I answer.
Was the guy who was assaulted an exhibitor at the event?
I thought he was some YouTube guy who was visiting Gencon?
If I understand correctly, the guy who committed the assault WAS an exhibitor at Gencon (I think he made some boardgame or something?).
Quote from: KingCheops;1053848The point is that in either case the alleged criminal should have been barred from the venue and his booth removed. This is likely what would have happened in the sexual assault scenario.
Absolutely I agree here. Assuming you mean the alleged criminal is the guy who committed the assault.
Quote from: danskmacabre;1053852Sorry, I think I'm missing something here. So I need some clarity before I answer.
Was the guy who was assaulted an exhibitor at the event?
I thought he was some YouTube guy who was visiting Gencon?
If I understand correctly, the guy who committed the assault WAS an exhibitor at Gencon (I think he made some boardgame or something?).
Absolutely I agree here. Assuming you mean the alleged criminal is the guy who committed the assault.
Alleged attacker was an exhibitor.
Alleged victim is not an exhibitor -- regular conventioneer
Alleged criminal does in fact refer to the one who committed the assault (the exhibitor)
Quote from: KingCheops;1053855Alleged attacker was an exhibitor.
Alleged victim is not an exhibitor -- regular conventioneer
Alleged criminal does in fact refer to the one who committed the assault (the exhibitor)
Ok, so yeah I agree with you, given you point was:
the alleged criminal should have been barred from the venue and his booth removedI think you might have been confused with my statement earlier:
so it's irrelevant whether he should have been banned or not although as pointed out by yourself, it's not a WOTC event anyway.As that was in response to someone else stating the YouTuber should have been banned from GenCon as he was banned from WotC events for some previous thing he'd done before Gencon or something.
Anyway, my brain hurts....
HappyDaze and wrmashal you are pair of idiots. Type this into google "Matt Fantastic" and "pax west"
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click the 1st link
[ATTACH=CONFIG]2820[/ATTACH]
Go back to the search result page and click the triangle to the right of the first link
[ATTACH=CONFIG]2819[/ATTACH]
click the link
[ATTACH=CONFIG]2821[/ATTACH]
The last image has cached by GOOGLE on the 26th of June so the event has been removed from the schedule.
Quote from: Gagarth;1053879HappyDaze and wrmashal you are pair of idiots. Type this into google "Matt Fantastic" and "pax west"
[ATTACH=CONFIG]2817[/ATTACH]
click the 1st link
[ATTACH=CONFIG]2820[/ATTACH]
Go back to the search result page and click the triangle to the right of the first link
[ATTACH=CONFIG]2819[/ATTACH]
click the link
[ATTACH=CONFIG]2821[/ATTACH]
The last image has cached by GOOGLE on the 26th of June so the event has been removed from the schedule.
I followed your instructions, but I think what you've really found is that PAX does a lousy job of purging its website of old links, and a lousy job of organizing their links. The cache clearly shows that the event was set for Friday, September 1st, but Friday of 2018 is on August 31st. I believe what you found is a link referring to an event they held in 2017, but they didn't remove that link until a month or two ago. Also, that cache has links to many overlapping events, but if you click on them, most of them also take you to a blank page as well, indicating it's also no longer a valid event. I think those links are also now invalid because PAX finally decided to delete their old links to 2017 events rather than there being a massive removal of 2018 events just a couple of months before their con starts.
Quote from: Gagarth;1053879HappyDaze and wrmashal you are pair of idiots.
Yet we can properly read a calendar...
I can confirm that many conventions I've worked with or attended don't update their event pages until just before the event.
Unless the con is really focused on online game reg, websites tend to be half assed even right before the event.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1054086I can confirm that many conventions I've worked with or attended don't update their event pages until just before the event.
Unless the con is really focused on online game reg, websites tend to be half assed even right before the event.
Yes, and that's a shame given it is the cheapest way to promote an event. I don't know how many times I skipped a show because it was never clear what was going to happen there until long after early bird pricing or after I already made other plans.
Quote from: baran_i_kanu;1053462Jeremy did a vid on this.
The SJW douche got fired from his job teaching game theory at a college.
Charges were filed and he's being sued. Apparently things are in motion but yoiu know how slow our system can be.
If you go to the Quartering channel on youtube he has his vid on it.
The Indianapolis warrant system has no charges on file for the alleged assailant, that I can find.
Quote from: Baron Opal;1054218The Indianapolis warrant system has no charges on file for the alleged assailant, that I can find.
It's not uncommon to hold filing charges until more evidence is gathered. The DAs office tends to get pissy about that sort of thing, and it rolls down hill.
Quote from: Gagarth;1053774The 3pm Friday panel he was supposed be on seems to be MIA
https://web.archive.org/web/20180203123730/http://west.paxsite.com:80/schedule/panel/the-life-and-times-of-a-board-game (https://web.archive.org/web/20180203123730/http://west.paxsite.com:80/schedule/panel/the-life-and-times-of-a-board-game)
http://west.paxsite.com:80/schedule/panel/the-life-and-times-of-a-board-game (http://west.paxsite.com:80/schedule/panel/the-life-and-times-of-a-board-game)
Well, that's hopeful at least.
Soooooo.... Hambly just put up a video on an e-mail he finally got from GenCon about the incident. Their response? He's banned until further notice from GenCon.
According to the e-mail, they are banning him and another account holder (he is assuming it's the guy who attacked him). The reason for Hambly's ban is stated as "violated the convention's Ethics, Conduct and No Harassment policy for targeted online bullying of attendees."
Quote from: rgalex;1057766Soooooo.... Hambly just put up a video on an e-mail he finally got from GenCon about the incident. Their response? He's banned until further notice from GenCon.
According to the e-mail, they are banning him and another account holder (he is assuming it's the guy who attacked him). The reason for Hambly's ban is stated as "violated the convention's Ethics, Conduct and No Harassment policy for targeted online bullying of attendees."
Got a link?
Not doubting you, but this is horseshit and what I expected.
Quote from: jeff37923;1057772Got a link?
Not doubting you, but this is horseshit and what I expected.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O2wUJ-WTgk&t=0s
Right around the 7:15 mark is when he shows the e-mail.
I like the confidential notice at the bottom of it. So did Hambly :)
It's all GenCon could do to avoid future liability. Banning Hambly and his attacker.
But I also believe it is a case of too little, too late. The attacker had attacked others in the past. He should have been removed a long time ago.
Hambly should have been banned in the first place, because of WOTC's ban of him from their events. The fact he was allowed to attend the convention in the first place was just begging for trouble.
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1057781It's all GenCon could do to avoid future liability. Banning Hambly and his attacker.
But I also believe it is a case of too little, too late. The attacker had attacked others in the past. He should have been removed a long time ago.
Hambly should have been banned in the first place, because of WOTC's ban of him from their events. The fact he was allowed to attend the convention in the first place was just begging for trouble.
Why does a WoTC ban carry over to GenCon?
Quote from: Lurtch;1057782Why does a WoTC ban carry over to GenCon?
It has been their central showcase for decades. That's why.
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1057781Hambly should have been banned in the first place, because of WOTC's ban of him from their events. The fact he was allowed to attend the convention in the first place was just begging for trouble.
"If she just wouldn't have worn that dress, she wouldn't have been raped!"
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1053750The attacker deserves to be convicted. No question about that. And I truly hope he gets what he has coming to him.
However. Hambly was at what has been traditionally been a WOTC event. GenCon has always been that. And WOTC banned him from all of their events. So there is some blame coming their way because of his ability to attend an event where he otherwise should have been banned.
Does that justify the attacker attacking him? Not at all. But WOTC possesses a certain responsibility in not standing up to the fact they have banned him from all of their other events. They enabled the situation by not acting.
I'm not going to argue whether their ban was justified or not. It is what it is.
Quote from: EOTB;1053751WOTC sold GenCon almost 20 years ago.
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1057781It's all GenCon could do to avoid future liability. Banning Hambly and his attacker.
But I also believe it is a case of too little, too late. The attacker had attacked others in the past. He should have been removed a long time ago.
Hambly should have been banned in the first place, because of WOTC's ban of him from their events. The fact he was allowed to attend the convention in the first place was just begging for trouble.
Quote from: Lurtch;1057782Why does a WoTC ban carry over to GenCon?
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1057783It has been their central showcase for decades. That's why.
Do you still not understand that WOTC doesn't own GenCon?
jeff, that is bullshit. And you know it.
Hambly had been banned from all WOTC events. He was a known provocateur. He definitely was not an innocent party.
Quote from: EOTB;1057788Do you still not understand that WOTC doesn't own GenCon?
Doesn't matter that they don't own it. They are its biggest exhibitor.
Quote from: jeff37923;1057785"If she just wouldn't have worn that dress, she wouldn't have been raped!"
Damnit. Beat me to it.
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1057789jeff, that is bullshit. And you know it.
Hambly had been banned from all WOTC events. He was a known provocateur. He definitely was not an innocent party.
So you think that the attack on him was justified.
By saying that if he wasn't there, he wouldn't have been attacked, you are engaging in victim blaming. You are saying that it is Hambly's fault that he was attacked. So it isn't bullshit.
Quote from: jeff37923;1057792So you think that the attack on him was justified.
By saying that if he wasn't there, he wouldn't have been attacked, you are engaging in victim blaming. You are saying that it is Hambly's fault that he was attacked. So it isn't bullshit.
No, I don't think the attack on him was justified.
And it's obvious that the only posts of mine that you do pay attention to are those you seek out as fodder to troll.
Hambly shouldn't have been there in the first place. WOTC and GenCon should have been on top of the situation far before this attack happened. The fact they weren't, shows absolute blatant negligence on their part.
His attacker shouldn't have been there in the first place. Because this was definitely not his first time attacking someone at/near that convention. The whole situation was preventable. If the management of GenCon and WOTC had actually been paying attention.
I'm pointing the actual blame at GenCon and WOTC.
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1057789jeff, that is bullshit. And you know it.
Hambly had been banned from all WOTC events. He was a known provocateur. He definitely was not an innocent party.
He stepped over a big patty, but he wasn't the bull that put it on the ground. His answer was directly on point.
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1057795And it's obvious that the only posts of mine that you do pay attention to are those you seek out as fodder to troll.
Only when you say something incredibly stupid. If you'll pay closer attention, you'll find that I am attacking your idea and not you.
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1057795Hambly shouldn't have been there in the first place. WOTC and GenCon should have been on top of the situation far before this attack happened. The fact they weren't, shows absolute blatant negligence on their part.
His attacker shouldn't have been there in the first place. Because this was definitely not his first time attacking someone at/near that convention. The whole situation was preventable. If the management of GenCon and WOTC had actually been paying attention.
I'm pointing the actual blame at GenCon and WOTC.
OK, so GenCon (not a subdivision of WotC) should have pre-emptively banned Hambly because why?
Quote from: jeff37923;1057798OK, so GenCon (not a subdivision of WotC) should have pre-emptively banned Hambly because why?
His safety of course!
Quote from: jeff37923;1057798OK, so GenCon (not a subdivision of WotC) should have pre-emptively banned Hambly because why?
He violated their terms of service. Regarding online harassment.
Very same reason WOTC banned him from their events in the first place.
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1057800He violated their terms of service. Regarding online harassment.
Very same reason WOTC banned him from their events in the first place.
Please detail this online harassment.
Quote from: jeff37923;1057801Please detail this online harassment.
I'm not your encyclopedia. And I am not your servant.
If you want information on the whole situation, it's been detailed endlessly through this very thread.
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1057802I'm not your encyclopedia. And I am not your servant.
If you want information on the whole situation, it's been detailed endlessly through this very thread.
Indeed, which is why I am wondering why you are blaming the man who was physically attacked here.
From everything presented, all of this started because of a single opinion piece that Hambly YouTubed and Sprankle flipped out over - using it to ask for Patreon donations and then abandoning MtG cosplay for nursing school. Surely that is grounds for a physical attack.
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1057790Doesn't matter that they don't own it. They are its biggest exhibitor.
WOTC is the "biggest" presence in just about every third party RPG-related function.
You would like WOTC blacklists to be de facto global RPG-related event blacklists? Wherever WOTC goes, those they don't approve of should be banned?
Quote from: EOTB;1057805WOTC is the "biggest" presence in just about every third party RPG-related function.
You would like WOTC blacklists to be de facto global RPG-related event blacklists? Wherever WOTC goes, those they don't approve of should be banned?
They
are the Premier of the Hobby. Paizo seems to be the Party Secretary. ;)
I have never once said the attack was justified.
It's my belief that the attacker belongs behind bars for the attack.
However. The situation is and was made more complex by Hambly's being banned from their events by WOTC. GenCon should have been made aware of that by WOTC. And GenCon should have acted far before the violence had a chance to happen.
The fact that they allowed the attacker to still attend GenCon after his history of violence there was grossly negligent on their part.
And I flat out refuse to discuss whether Hambly's ban from WOTC events was justified or not. The fact the ban exists at all is enough for me.
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1057809I have never once said the attack was justified.
It's my belief that the attacker belongs behind bars for the attack.
However. The situation is and was made more complex by Hambly's being banned from their events by WOTC. GenCon should have been made aware of that by WOTC. And GenCon should have acted far before the violence had a chance to happen.
The fact that they allowed the attacker to still attend GenCon after his history of violence there was grossly negligent on their part.
And I flat out refuse to discuss whether Hambly's ban from WOTC events was justified or not. The fact the ban exists at all is enough for me.
"I am not blaming the victim I am just saying if they weren't there it couldn't have happened!"
Quote from: EOTB;1057805WOTC is the "biggest" presence in just about every third party RPG-related function.
You would like WOTC blacklists to be de facto global RPG-related event blacklists? Wherever WOTC goes, those they don't approve of should be banned?
If this policy were ever to go into effect then ten seconds later every independent RPG company who isn't pushing WotC tie-in products goes onto WotC's banned list.
You've got an up-and-coming game product that might pull away customers from WotC? You are banned from WotC events for [insert made up reason here... ex. you mentioned peanut butter in a YouTube video and that's hate speech... somehow."] and banned from all conventions in which they have a presence.
I know once my game is done I'm going to need to get booths at these big cons to promote it, but I am NOT look forward to it at all because I am positive I will eventually catch flak for not once mentioning how special it is to play a non-binary, transsexual or homosexual character in my book (nor do I discuss any other type of sexuality beyond the raw biology of which species are close enough to each other to produce viable offspring)... and probably for discriminating against necrophilia by making the undead irredeemably evil.
The saddest part is I can't even tell if the above will still be jest or considered deadly earnest by this time next year.
Quote from: Chris24601;1057811If this policy were ever to go into effect then ten seconds later every independent RPG company who isn't pushing WotC tie-in products goes onto WotC's banned list.
You've got an up-and-coming game product that might pull away customers from WotC? You are banned from WotC events for [insert made up reason here... ex. you mentioned peanut butter in a YouTube video and that's hate speech... somehow."] and banned from all conventions in which they have a presence.
I know once my game is done I'm going to need to get booths at these big cons to promote it, but I am NOT look forward to it at all because I am positive I will eventually catch flak for not once mentioning how special it is to play a non-binary, transsexual or homosexual character in my book (nor do I discuss any other type of sexuality beyond the raw biology of which species are close enough to each other to produce viable offspring)... and probably for discriminating against necrophilia by making the undead irredeemably evil.
The saddest part is I can't even tell if the above will still be jest or considered deadly earnest by this time next year.
That is absolute hogwash. Where the hell are you getting your information from?
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1057809And I flat out refuse to discuss whether Hambly's ban from WOTC events was justified or not. The fact the ban exists at all is enough for me.
Even if you are using that ban as the basis for your argument that Hambly should have been pre-emptively banned from GenCon?
"She was wearing a sexy dress, so obviously she was going to be raped!"
Quote from: Chris24601;1057811insert made up reason here... ex. you mentioned peanut butter in a YouTube video and that's hate speech... somehow.
Peanuts were part of the plantation economy. The plantation economy is part of colonialism. Peanut butter is racist!!!!!!!!!!!!!1!
I SJW GOOD!!!!!!!!!!!
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1057783It has been their central showcase for decades. That's why.
Dude, WTF, why are you still pretending to not know that WOTC withdrew from GenCon years ago?
THEY LITERALLY NO LONGER EVEN HAVE A BOOTH AT GENCON. THEY DO NOT RUN EVENTS ANYMORE AT GENCON. THEY DON'T HAVE A SEMINAR ANYMORE AT GENCON. WOTC HAS NO MORE OFFICIAL PRESENCE AT GENCON. THEY DROPPED GENCON AND SHIFTED TO A DIFFERENT SET OF CONVENTIONS, AND THIS HAPPENED YEARS AGO. The only remaining WOTC stuff at Gencon takes the form of either: 1) individuals from WOTC who go there, but not in an official capacity and with no events booths or other scheduled items with GenCon, or 2) Baldwin games has run D&D games at GenCon with some stuff they got from WOTC. That's it as far as I know, all that's left.
Here are the Conventions that WOTC goes to now: Winter Fantasy (February, Fort Wayne, IN), Gary Con (March, Lake Geneva, WI), PAX East (April, Boston MA), Origins (June, Columbus OH), and PAX Prime (August, Seattle WA).
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1057790Doesn't matter that they don't own it. They are its biggest exhibitor.
Jesus fuck Darrin. WOTC DOES NOT EXHIBIT AT ALL AT GENCON ANYMORE AND HAS NOT FOR YEARS.
Damn, you are thick.
GenCon's "blame the victim" stance isn't surprising.
Hambly should troll GenCon. A huge amount of GenCon happens off site these days as gamers host their own events at local hotels. Just because Hambly was banned from GenCon means nothing about his annual visit to Indiana where he can shitpost on social media. Of course, he could buy a badge for "Joe Smith" and wander the con himself.
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1057789jeff, that is bullshit. And you know it.
Hambly had been banned from all WOTC events. He was a known provocateur. He definitely was not an innocent party.
No, actually, that's exactly the same thing. This is blaming the victim, nothing more.
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1057802I'm not your encyclopedia. And I am not your servant.
If you want information on the whole situation, it's been detailed endlessly through this very thread.
So you have nothing and don't care enough to even make sure your statements are true?
I am sure this is exactly precisely what Gary had in mind when he held GenCon 1 in his basement in the early 1970s.
So was the guy ever charged?
I wasn't there, I don't know the people involved, and I don't want to invest 2 hours into tracking all of that down; but the thread title alone is great click bait. If the victim was a decent person, then I'm on their side. Or, if they didn't initiate the stressful interaction; I'm on their side.
Throwing punches at me because you disagree with me about gaming would be silly, and I wouldn't just stand there and take it. It would become wide open craziness pretty quickly. Keep your hands to yourself. That's just inviting a whoopin', right there.
Razor, here's my TL;DR on the incident. Everybody else, feel free to correct me as its been a while.
THE BACKSTORY
The Victim (Hambly) and Attacker (Dickless McBitch) are both mouthy YouTubers.
Hambly did some kind of expose of convicted sexual predators within WotC's Org Play for the Magic CCG.
Hambly got into some kind of online pissing match over a cosplayer who was using cosplay to make cash for herself.
Somewhere along the line, WotC banned Hambly for maybe real, maybe fake reasons we can all fight over.
Attacker (Dickless McBitch) is a SJW who apparently boasts about having previously attacked people with opposing political opinions.
McBitch allegedly boasts that he's a kung fu ninja with more mad skillz than Napoleon Dynamite
McBitch posts that he will hurt anyone who isn't happy with Anita Sarkessian as GenCon's Guest of Honor.
Anita is the SJW darling of GamerGate who parlayed her SJW bullshit into a career.
THE MAIN EVENT
McBitch is at GenCon to promote his new boardgame.
As an utter coincidence, I'm a playtester and know the publisher, but I never met McBitch.
Hambly was at a bar near GenCon. This is important. The incident did not happen at GenCon's site.
McBitch sneaks up on Hambly at the bar and punches him repeatedly.
Hambly does not fight back and retreats.
McBitch breaks a window in the bar as he escapes.
The next day, GenCon tweets out a special promotion offer for McBitch's boardgame.
That may have been a crazy coincidence as well.
AND THE INTERWEBS GO BOOM!
Oddly, this story gets far more social media attention than Sarkessian.
THE END RESULT
Hambly spews on YouTube and files his assault report with the police and seeks legal help.
McBitch apparently goes silent online, but got fired from some gig for being a douche.
Time passes.
GenCon bans Hambly and maybe bans Dickless McBitch as well.
This part of the timeline is a bit off.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1057861Razor, here's my TL;DR on the incident. Everybody else, feel free to correct me as its been a while.
THE BACKSTORY
Hambly did some kind of expose of convicted sexual predators within WotC's Org Play for the Magic CCG.
Hambly got into some kind of online pissing match over a cosplayer who was using cosplay to make cash for herself.
Somewhere along the line, WotC banned Hambly for maybe real, maybe fake reasons we can all fight over.
He got in a 'pissing match' with a cosplayer first. She reported him to WoTC for 'harassment', then WoTC banned him from all things official Magic: The Gathering because of it. So he retaliated by doing basic background checks on various Judges for Magic, turns out quite a few of them have records for sexual predator charges and exposed them publicly.
I wonder how "Fantastic" Loter feels now?
Quote from: Christopher Brady;1057867This part of the timeline is a bit off.
He got in a 'pissing match' with a cosplayer first. She reported him to WoTC for 'harassment', then WoTC banned him from all things official Magic: The Gathering because of it. So he retaliated by doing basic background checks on various Judges for Magic, turns out quite a few of them have records for sexual predator charges and exposed them publicly.
Up to this point, WotC did not background check their judges so this was a huge black eye for MtG (WotC still does not background check their judges, instead claiming that it is the venue's responsibility). Now, all of the fanbois who were heartbroken that the cosplayer left, are now extra mad at Hambly because he is harming the reputation of Their Favorite Game - real harassment ensues against Hambly (doxxing, death threats, etc).
How fair is this? You get attacked at GenCon and then get banned from it.
GenCon you sound like a shower of wankers to me.
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1057809I have never once said the attack was justified.
It's my belief that the attacker belongs behind bars for the attack.
However. The situation is and was made more complex by Hambly's being banned from their events by WOTC. GenCon should have been made aware of that by WOTC. And GenCon should have acted far before the violence had a chance to happen.
The fact that they allowed the attacker to still attend GenCon after his history of violence there was grossly negligent on their part.
And I flat out refuse to discuss whether Hambly's ban from WOTC events was justified or not. The fact the ban exists at all is enough for me.
And so, a major corporation (within this tiny piece of the economy) gets to make decisions for the rest of us. Utter bullshit.
Yeah, I already blogged about this yesterday after I saw Jeremy's video on the GenCon ban. Literally the straw that broke the camel's back. If GenCon somehow "made it right" going forward, I was probably going to let it slide that they dropped the ball immediately after (and then a couple weeks after) the attack happened. But now this?!? GenCon has to get out of the SJW business before Venger Satanis steps a foot inside.
VS
It makes me wonder just how much WOTC is pulling the strings still at GenCon despite apparently not having much presence at GenCon?
GenCon's loss really. Older gamers like myself, probably spend a lot more money over the course of a convention than the knuckleheads they pander to.
But that's the price of practicing their religion.
I don't "do" big conventions but GC was always on my bucket list...not anymore. It's clear they're OK with people getting the shit kicked out of them for stepping off the leftist/liberal/SJW plantation, and what's good for the goose is NOT good for the gander, so fuck them, fuck Peter Adkinson, and fuck GenCon.
Quote from: VengerSatanis;1057917Yeah, I already blogged about this yesterday after I saw Jeremy's video on the GenCon ban. Literally the straw that broke the camel's back. If GenCon somehow "made it right" going forward, I was probably going to let it slide that they dropped the ball immediately after (and then a couple weeks after) the attack happened. But now this?!? GenCon has to get out of the SJW business before Venger Satanis steps a foot inside.
VS
That's ok. You probably didn't ever go anyway and good riddance if you did. At least, that's what TBP is saying about anyone claiming they won't go anymore because of this.
It's really funny how when the narrative gets flipped it just doesn't matter anymore. What happened to "believe the victim" and how about "there is no such thing as a 'fake' geek". Wouldn't it be nice to just get back to playing stupid elfgames and having fun instead of having to pass some purity test to see who's allowed at which table?
Quote from: The Exploited.;1057900How fair is this? You get attacked at GenCon and then get banned from it.
GenCon you sound like a shower of wankers to me.
I suspect it's more to do with his Wrong Think than embarrassing them with the whole assault thing. Either way, they've taken a shotgun to their already bleeding foot.
Quote from: rgalex;1057951t's really funny how when the narrative gets flipped it just doesn't matter anymore. What happened to "believe the victim" and how about "there is no such thing as a 'fake' geek". Wouldn't it be nice to just get back to playing stupid elfgames and having fun instead of having to pass some purity test to see who's allowed at which table?
Something, something, (perceived) Nazis shouldn't be given the same rights as everybody else, therefore if you defend Hambly you're supporting Alt-Right/MRA/Nazis/Drumpf.
And you're not a Nazi,
are you? That would be unfortunate.
Quote from: rgalex;1057951That's ok. You probably didn't ever go anyway and good riddance if you did. At least, that's what TBP is saying about anyone claiming they won't go anymore because of this.
It's really funny how when the narrative gets flipped it just doesn't matter anymore. What happened to "believe the victim" and how about "there is no such thing as a 'fake' geek". Wouldn't it be nice to just get back to playing stupid elfgames and having fun instead of having to pass some purity test to see who's allowed at which table?
Because it's a quasi-religious ideology that above all other considerations justifies itself according to only what further's the ideology and its adherents. Not any particular principle. Those are just "things to say" when needed. When not needed, they're uniformly ignored. If you confront them with the hypocrisy of their actions vs. precedent or words, they label you a monster and censor you. In many cases, such as this, they come after you and justify it.
After all you are a monster.
Rinse/repeat.
If GenCon is on your bucket list, do GenCon at some point. Just so you have The GenCon Experience.
But judging cons in general for bang for your buck? Fuck GenCon. Go to a small regional convention run by gamers for gamers, not as a business.
My favorite con is PolyCon in San Luis Obispo, a town halfway between LA and SF on the Pacific Coast.
PolyCon is having their 37th year and about 250-300 attend and I've never had less than a truly wonderful happy time.
http://polycon.org/
I've done GenCon a few times and don't need (or want) their experience again. Also, I keep hearing coolness about DragonCon so that's my next big con.
Quote from: rgalex;1057951Wouldn't it be nice to just get back to playing stupid elfgames and having fun instead of having to pass some purity test to see who's allowed at which table?
Nope, we are all stuck in the Paranoia LARP now!
On a serious note, I still believe (maybe mistakenly) that the 24/7 SJW bullshit is an online and MSM phenomenon. Even in LA, I can easily gather a group of people of varied backgrounds and beliefs and when I say "let's STFU and game", they are really happy to STFU and game.
I have a SJW gaming acquaintance who recently told me about his outrage fatigue. He's exhausted not only from hating Trump 24/7 and dealing with all his TDS issues, but because he's fatigued, he's not getting outraged enough to please his fellow SJWs on his Facebook. He doesn't have the energy for the level of clickbait activism being demanded by SJWs who do FB 24/7. So when I suggest we toss dice, he's absolutely thrilled to spend a few hours away in fantasy land.
Oh...and he quietly fucking HATES what happened at GenCon. He's a decent dude and can't stand the idea that anyone got attacked on their vacation just for their political beliefs, regardless how "wrong" they may be.
And for that, I threatened to report his heresy to the thought police!
So was he banned for posts/videos he made
before or
after the attack? Because if it was
before, then they should never have allowed him to attend in the first place. But if it was
after, then they're literally banning him for inciting his own attack, which is an incredibly dangerous ruling to make.
At least it's clear now that GenCon will ban you for off site behavior, which doesn't break any specific rules, or even take place during the event. So all those claiming this wasn't GenCon's problem because it happened at a bar can shut up.
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1057781It's all GenCon could do to avoid future liability.
Liability for
what exactly?
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1057781The fact he was allowed to attend the convention in the first place was just begging for trouble.
What
kind of trouble?
Is he a threat to women and children? No. Does he harass people at the convention? No. Did he troll Anita's panel there? No. Does he incite people to attack him?
Ahh, there we go.
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1057789Hambly had been banned from all WOTC events. He was a known provocateur. He definitely was not an innocent party.
Then what exactly was he guilty of?
Quote from: jeff37923;1057798so GenCon (not a subdivision of WotC) should have pre-emptively banned Hambly because why?
Quote from: Ras Algethi;1057799His safety of course!
Funny how this excuse only ever applies to people like Jeremy, and not the many women who claim these events are unsafe for them.
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1057800He violated their terms of service. Regarding online harassment.
No. He didn't.
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1057802I'm not your encyclopedia. And I am not your servant.
And yet here you are, taking the time to post all these spurious arguments.
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1057809And I flat out refuse to discuss whether Hambly's ban from WOTC events was justified or not. The fact the ban exists at all is enough for me.
Ah, a true authoritarian I see. Innocence or guilt are irrelevant. As long as those in power have made a decision, it doesn't matter why, and you refuse to even consider the question.
I guess we should be worried about Nazis after all.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1057836Hambly should troll GenCon.
No. No he should not.
This precedent is
so bad we need to let it stink on its own, not fuel the flames and give the people who made it justification for doing so.
Quote from: jeff37923;1057873Up to this point, WotC did not background check their judges
They
still don't. They pushed that responsibility onto the stores and conventions which host their events.
Quote from: rgalex;1057951It's really funny how when the narrative gets flipped it just doesn't matter anymore.
Yeah, isn't it?
Even funnier though is how often they attack each other.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1057985Fuck GenCon. Go to a small regional convention run by gamers for gamers, not as a business.
My favorite con is PolyCon in San Luis Obispo, a town halfway between LA and SF on the Pacific Coast.
PolyCon is having their 37th year and about 250-300 attend and I've never had less than a truly wonderful happy time.
http://polycon.org/
Holy shit! That was the first gaming con I ever went to in High School! I got into a Snard Veck game which was a D&D parody of the Star Trek movies with a lot of really bad puns. I was in Smurfs for Spock in which the smurfs had kidnapped Spock and Kirk hired us to bring him back. We fought shit like a trash can with a black pudding inside which attacked when you took the lid off (a snack-pack black pudding) and these giant silvery ants that sang (adam-ant-ium ants). You could bring your most Monty Haul character because the whole thing was done for fun anyways. I loved that shit!
Quote from: Spinachcat;1057985I've done GenCon a few times and don't need (or want) their experience again. Also, I keep hearing coolness about DragonCon so that's my next big con.
Ive done gencon a few times myself, 5 times to be exact, and each time it got progressively worse. It's a long drive, it's expensive and overall its a collective mess. I prefer smaller local cons as well. This incident is just icing on the cake to never return.
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1057789He was a known provocateur. He definitely was not an innocent party.
How does that logic work? He's just a YT pundit attending a convention. His views should have no bearing on him being assaulted (free speech and all). Hambley did nothing wrong by paying for a ticket.
He didn't go there to screw with anyone. But he made a vid previously, saying that he didn't think Sarkesian should have been at GenCon.
Then Loter spits the dummy and attacks him from behind.... How is he not innocent?
Quote from: The Exploited.;1058061How does that logic work? He's just a YT pundit attending a convention. His views should have no bearing on him being assaulted (free speech and all). Hambley did nothing wrong by paying for a ticket.
He didn't go there to screw with anyone. But he made a vid previously, saying that he didn't think Sarkesian should have been at GenCon.
Then Loter spits the dummy and attacks him from behind.... How is he not innocent?
He was guilty of WrongThink and WronSpeech. Once someone punches you for being a Nazi, you are a Nazi.
I'd like to see the new GenCon. My experience was GenCon from the mid 90s to 2000 and was overall pretty good.
Quote from: WillInNewHaven;1058062He was guilty of WrongThink and WronSpeech. Once someone punches you for being a Nazi, you are a Nazi.
Seems that way alright... If you're not explicitly an SJW then you are a filthy Nazi!! Who should have been hung at Nuremberg.
There are no shades of gray in the world, eh? ;)
Quote from: tenbones;1057953Because it's a quasi-religious ideology that above all other considerations justifies itself according to only what further's the ideology and its adherents. Not any particular principle. Those are just "things to say" when needed. When not needed, they're uniformly ignored. If you confront them with the hypocrisy of their actions vs. precedent or words, they label you a monster and censor you. In many cases, such as this, they come after you and justify it.
After all you are a monster.
Rinse/repeat.
You just gave me chills, hoss.
VS
Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1057992This precedent is so bad we need to let it stink on its own, not fuel the flames and give the people who made it justification for doing so.
But that doesn't provide me Maximum LoLz!!!
Quote from: jeff37923;1057993Holy shit! That was the first gaming con I ever went to in High School!
Small world! I suspected you'd been there when you mentioned living in Santa Maria. I discovered PolyCon in the late 90s (can't freaking believe I didn't hear about it earlier). What years did you go? Also, did you travel north or south to cons? AKA, Pacificon or DundraCon in the Bay Area or the Strategicon events in LA?
I'm pretty sure jhkim and I have crossed paths over the years at Bay Area cons. It would be funny if several more of us have "met" each other in the past.
Quote from: NYTFLYR;1058060Ive done gencon a few times myself, 5 times to be exact, and each time it got progressively worse. It's a long drive, it's expensive and overall its a collective mess. I prefer smaller local cons as well. This incident is just icing on the cake to never return.
It's ROI. If the "GenCon Exprience" (or Comic Con, etc) is deemed important, then all the attendant bullshit becomes worth dealing with. However, once you've had The Experience just once or a few times, then everyone does their ROI on how much the attendant bullshit is worth vs. The Experience.
Koltar really enjoys GenCon and he'd be a good person to discuss why he finds the attendant bullshit worth it for him.
For me, the ROI for small cons is far better, but I acknowledge Big Cons have some events and experiences you won't find at Small Cons.
Quote from: WillInNewHaven;1058062Once someone punches you for being a Nazi, you are a Nazi.
Exactly! If someone accuses you of something, you did it.
That's logic in 2018.
Quote from: Omega;1057918It makes me wonder just how much WOTC is pulling the strings still at GenCon despite apparently not having much presence at GenCon?
I don't think WOTC has any influence or even contact with GenCon anymore. In fact, GenCon likely actively dislikes WOTC for WOTC deciding to promote PAX over them.
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1057789He was a known provocateur. He definitely was not an innocent party.
She was a known slut. She definitely was not an innocent party.
Quote from: NYTFLYR;1058102She was a known slut. She definitely was not an innocent party.
Oh how horrible! Perhaps we ought to bring back chastity belts.
Quote from: TJS;1058105Oh how horrible! Perhaps we ought to bring bach chastity belts.
I don't where we would go chopin for them.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;1058109I don't where we would go chopin for them.
Ok, that was funny.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1058079Small world! I suspected you'd been there when you mentioned living in Santa Maria. I discovered PolyCon in the late 90s (can't freaking believe I didn't hear about it earlier). What years did you go? Also, did you travel north or south to cons? AKA, Pacificon or DundraCon in the Bay Area or the Strategicon events in LA?
I'm pretty sure jhkim and I have crossed paths over the years at Bay Area cons. It would be funny if several more of us have "met" each other in the past.
I'd go down towards CalPoly between 1985 and 1987 as part of Zen Room (Rocky Horror Picture Show live cast) and one weekend PolyCon was happening, so I made it over there before the show to check it out. It was pretty awesome for my teenage self.
I pretty much only went as far as Santa Barbara one way and San Luis Obispo the other way, mainly as part of Zen Room, so PolyCon was the only one I ever got to go to at that age.
Quote from: NYTFLYR;1058102She was a known slut. She definitely was not an innocent party.
Not quite. She was I believe just a cosplayer who was not shy about her own body and Hambly hilariously enough acted like a true SJW to slut shame her over it. Turns out he wasnt too far off the mark as she later scammed people, but it is still bemusing. Hambly then exposed various MTG judges for their criminal records and WOTC doubled down. Hambly has since been picking apart the SJWs relentlessly.
None of which would have happened had Hambly been a woman slut shaming that cosplayer and then outing those judges.
Actually, not quite. He didn't care about her showing herself off, it's that she decided that she was better than the convention goers who would ogle her, quit her job as a WoTC booth girl, and then set up a patreon to beg for money. Which was effectively whoring herself out. This is what his video claims he was calling her out on. Because she was, according to him, scamming a very vulnerable demographic (geeks and losers) into giving her money, which they (said geeks and losers) would believe that it might get them more images of her.
Then gets her job BACK. And her patreon was still up last I checked, which was a couple of months ago.
Modeling isn't prostitution. If people want to pay someone to wear clothes (or not) and take pictures, I'm not seeing the problem.
Slut and whore are crappy words. And not because of "feels", because their definitions fall apart when used as slurs or insults.
Was she an opportunist targeting geeks? Sure, but that's pure capitalism.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1058173Modeling isn't prostitution. If people want to pay someone to wear clothes (or not) and take pictures, I'm not seeing the problem.
Begging money for images of oneself IS prostitution. Which is not, by itself, a bad thing. Although it has been turned into such a thing by puritanical women who are jealous of women who can get away with commanding more money than if they tried to show an ankle.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1058174Slut and whore are crappy words. And not because of "feels", because their definitions fall apart when used as slurs or insults.
It depends on who you ask, or what setting, as slut and whore can be come ons with certain people in certain situations. And if I have to spell those out, you ain't old enough.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1058174Was she an opportunist targeting geeks? Sure, but that's pure capitalism.
Well, yes, but it's still scummy. And it's still prostitution. She's selling her body, whether physically or via images taken, ergo prostitution. Which is a fully viable way of making money.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;1058159Actually, not quite. He didn't care about her showing herself off, it's that she decided that she was better than the convention goers who would ogle her, quit her job as a WoTC booth girl, and then set up a patreon to beg for money. Which was effectively whoring herself out. This is what his video claims he was calling her out on. Because she was, according to him, scamming a very vulnerable demographic (geeks and losers) into giving her money, which they (said geeks and losers) would believe that it might get them more images of her.
Then gets her job BACK. And her patreon was still up last I checked, which was a couple of months ago.
Really? I thought it went differently. If that is true then yeah she was acting poorly.
Still. Had Hambly been a woman calling her out she would have got an SJW award or something.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;1058178Begging money for images of oneself IS prostitution. Which is not, by itself, a bad thing. Although it has been turned into such a thing by puritanical women who are jealous of women who can get away with commanding more money than if they tried to show an ankle.
So, actors charging for signed photos is prostitution?
Having a Patreon account is begging? I always thought of it as parallel to busking, and I never thought of buskers as beggers, since they are offering a service for which you pay if you appreciate it.
Are people who sell goods on RPG Now beggers if they price it as Pay What You Want?
Quote from: Omega;1058143Not quite. She was I believe just a cosplayer who was not shy about her own body and Hambly hilariously enough acted like a true SJW to slut shame her over it. Turns out he wasnt too far off the mark as she later scammed people, but it is still bemusing. Hambly then exposed various MTG judges for their criminal records and WOTC doubled down. Hambly has since been picking apart the SJWs relentlessly.
None of which would have happened had Hambly been a woman slut shaming that cosplayer and then outing those judges.
wasn't referring to anyone in particular, just changing a few words around.
Quote from: Baron Opal;1058201Are people who sell goods on RPG Now beggers if they price it as Pay What You Want?
yeah, I'm a slut, now buy my pdf...
Quote from: Christopher Brady;1058178Well, yes, but it's still scummy. And it's still prostitution. She's selling her body, whether physically or via images taken, ergo prostitution. Which is a fully viable way of making money.
If you have a moral issue with it, go after the men willing to pay her and change their morals. Both are tilting at windmills, so why not start with the one closer to home?
Hambly also pointed out that she specifically cosplayed as the hypersexualized pre-SJW versions of characters even when nasty ass SJW versions of the same character were available for cosplay. So she specifically went for skin when there were no skin versions available.
It's definitely not prostitution and not slutty but it is getting pretty damn close to that line.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1058173Modeling isn't prostitution. If people want to pay someone to wear clothes (or not) and take pictures, I'm not seeing the problem.
Slut and whore are crappy words. And not because of "feels", because their definitions fall apart when used as slurs or insults.
Was she an opportunist targeting geeks? Sure, but that's pure capitalism.
No one is saying she shouldn't be allowed to act like she did. But other people are allowed to have their reactions to it (as long as they aren't preventing her from doing her thing), and are free to share those reactions with others who are interested in listening.
Likewise, if someone else doesn't like what that other person says, they may present their own rebuttal, as long as that rebuttal doesn't include a punch to the back of the head.
I always support everyone's free speech on every issue. As I've posted before, I worked as a porn editor back in college so I'm familiar with actual humans fucking for cash.
My problem with "slut" and "whore" is there isn't an equivalent word in English for men who engage in the same behavior. They're stigma words. Also, "slut" and "whore" are traditionally focused on women fucking for fun or money, not just posing for pics. To me, there's something creepily puritanical to use those words against a cosplayer.
BTW, anyone have any links to her pics that caused all this uproar?
Quote from: Spinachcat;1058238BTW, anyone have any links to her pics that caused all this uproar?
I don't have the pics, but I have a link to a Sargon of Akkad vid he did. Take or leave his opinion on this, but he does show the pics that are most often sited as the "offending" ones.
https://www.clip.fail/video/Ale7CrTIloI
Check out pic 1 at 3:25 and pic 2 at around 4:00. Note pic 2 is animated and my understanding, which may be wrong, is that that is how she presented it, it's not being manipulated by someone else.
Side note about conventions.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1057985But judging cons in general for bang for your buck? Fuck GenCon. Go to a small regional convention run by gamers for gamers, not as a business.
My favorite con is PolyCon in San Luis Obispo, a town halfway between LA and SF on the Pacific Coast.
PolyCon is having their 37th year and about 250-300 attend and I've never had less than a truly wonderful happy time.
http://polycon.org/
Quote from: jeff37923;1057993Holy shit! That was the first gaming con I ever went to in High School! I got into a Snard Veck game which was a D&D parody of the Star Trek movies with a lot of really bad puns.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1058079Small world! I suspected you'd been there when you mentioned living in Santa Maria. I discovered PolyCon in the late 90s (can't freaking believe I didn't hear about it earlier). What years did you go? Also, did you travel north or south to cons? AKA, Pacificon or DundraCon in the Bay Area or the Strategicon events in LA?
I'm pretty sure jhkim and I have crossed paths over the years at Bay Area cons. It would be funny if several more of us have "met" each other in the past.
Spinachcat - I totally agree about GenCon. It was interesting to go to once or twice, but I like my local conventions more even aside from the travel and expense of going to GenCon. I've only been to PolyCon once - in 2015. It was very good. But it's a trek for me when there are numerous good cons right next to me in the Bay Area (DunDraCon, KublaCon, Pacificon, and Big Bad Con).
My favorite convention, though, is AmberCon NorthWest in Portland in November.
http://www.amberconnw.org/
It's got a great community of people who come up with amazing creative ideas, and it's at a terrific location. A lot of cool diceless games, as well as more traditional diced RPGs.
GenCon was great when it was in Milwaukee but as a RPG gamer it's pretty shitty now.
Phoenix has great local cons too
Quote from: Christopher Brady;1058159her patreon was still up last I checked, which was a couple of months ago.
It's been down since 2017 (https://graphtreon.com/creator/user?u=445024). Is there another one now?
Anyway, I believe literally crying for money on her #Patreon is what set the whole thing off, and Jeremy claiming cosplay was not a legitimate craft and had no place in the magic community didn't help any. Then the people of the internet took sides and pushed a narrative, and the rest is history.
I would hope both of them would do things differently now, especially Jeremy. Regardless
none of their actions justify being harassed or assaulted, and the most tragic thing in all this is I suspect if Christine spoke up in Jeremy's defense here that she would be attacked by the very people who claimed to be her advocates.
I don't know her, but from what I've seen she strikes me as a reasonable and considerate person actually, so I hope she's doing well and is not too inconvenienced by those unearthing this shit over and over again to further their own agenda.
He never said it had no place in anything. He said cosplaying isn't the same hobby as actually playing Magic the Gathering. Which is true. And many women cosplayers do it because they can make significant money from thirsty nerds, also true. He never harassed her or asked others to harass her.
I know women are weak and intellectually deficient and we need Seattle men to protect them.
Quote from: jhkim;1058260My favorite convention, though, is AmberCon NorthWest in Portland in November.
http://www.amberconnw.org/
Never knew about this one. Maybe better to say it is Troutdale, which is outside of Portland.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1058238I always support everyone's free speech on every issue. As I've posted before, I worked as a porn editor back in college so I'm familiar with actual humans fucking for cash.
My problem with "slut" and "whore" is there isn't an equivalent word in English for men who engage in the same behavior. They're stigma words. Also, "slut" and "whore" are traditionally focused on women fucking for fun or money, not just posing for pics. To me, there's something creepily puritanical to use those words against a cosplayer.
BTW, anyone have any links to her pics that caused all this uproar?
The male stigma equivalents in English you are looking for are: rentboy, rough trade, gigolo, and boy toy. :) You're welcome.
Quote from: Opaopajr;1058460The male stigma equivalents in English you are looking for are: rentboy, rough trade, gigolo, and boy toy. :) You're welcome.
Those are not equivalent.
Quote from: Motorskills;1058462Those are not equivalent.
You're right. They're WORSE.
Fuck boy.
Quote from: Motorskills;1058462Those are not equivalent.
That is your Male Privilege talking.
Quote from: Opaopajr;1058460The male stigma equivalents in English you are looking for are: rentboy, rough trade, gigolo, and boy toy. :) You're welcome.
So, if I am at someone's place and I call their father a "rough trade" or one of the others, then I expect they'll just look at me oddly or similar. They're more likely to be puzzled than offended.
If I am at someone's place and I call their mother a whore, then I'll expect an immediate angry, visceral reaction.
Do people really think differently?
Unless she's into that.
Quote from: jhkim;1058478So, if I am at someone's place and I call their father a "rough trade" or one of the others, then I expect they'll just look at me oddly or similar. They're more likely to be puzzled than offended.
If I am at someone's place and I call their mother a whore, then I'll expect an immediate angry, visceral reaction.
Do people really think differently?
There will always be those who don't know what a word means. But in the English language there are plenty who know that calling one's father a rentboy, rough trade, gigolo, or boy toy IS NOT a good thing. ;) But you are privileged to extrapolate your ignorance as the norm upon the world. :)
edit: Ooh, don't forget the demure forms for polite company, such as a "kept man." That was always a great one to throw around. Delightfully emasculating while still with less homosexual prostitute connotations.
Oh, the words are there, children. You just may need a helpful reminder, I think. ;)
Quote from: Christopher Brady;1058463You're right. They're WORSE.
I disagree, perhaps with the exception of
Rentboy. Think about how those feminine descriptors are most typically used - as cruel insults that often have little to do with the trading of sex for money, and carry a particular weight of misogyny when launched by a man against a woman.
Whore is a basic noun, but if people are talking in a more cultural context, the word
prostitute is almost always used.
Gigolo is super-rare IME, unless Richard Gere is the topic of conversation. Importantly it is just as often used in a laudatory manner. (Now you can argue there are issues with that, and I wouldn't necessarily disagree).
Boy Toy might be in the mix - I've only ever heard it used in a comedic context, YMMV.
Rentboy is the exception, because there is definite harshness associated with it - but I have never heard it used as an
insult.
So come on Brady, explain how I am wrong about this.
Quote from: Motorskills;1058488So come on Brady, explain how I am wrong about this.
They're worse because the emasculate a man. Slut and whore don't take anything away from a woman. Hell, men LOVE sluts and whores, for some of us, they seem to be the only type of woman we can get.
Quote from: Motorskills;1058488Think about how those feminine descriptors are most typically used - as cruel insults that often have little to do with the trading of sex for money, and carry a particular weight of misogyny when launched by a man against a woman.
...explain how I am wrong about this.
SlutWalk (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SlutWalk)
Slut-Shaming (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slut-shaming)
Ethical Slut (https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/the-ethical-slut-inside-americas-growing-acceptance-of-polyamory-112319/)
For the sexually liberated, the term "slut" is a badge of honor and here you are trying to derail a sexual revolution that started back in the 60's and was synonymous with Robert A. Heinlein's
Stranger in a Strange Land.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;1058489They're worse because they emasculate a man. Slut and whore don't take anything away from a woman. Hell, men LOVE sluts and whores, for some of us, they seem to be the only type of woman we can get.
Yeah, not buying any of that nonsense, sounds like bizarro aggressive incel stuff.
Quote from: Motorskills;1058491Yeah, not buying any of that nonsense, sounds like bizarro aggressive incel stuff.
How hypocritically puritanical....
Quote from: Lurtch;1058269Phoenix has great local cons too
What con in Phoenix would be worth the travel? What makes it great? Also, links!
Quote from: Opaopajr;1058460The male stigma equivalents in English you are looking for are: rentboy, rough trade, gigolo, and boy toy. :) You're welcome.
I've heard all of those terms used with snark and sarcasm, and being an outsider, I was never sure how much the dark humor was universally enjoyed vs. how many of those insults landed amid the banter.
I know a "kept man" who wears a Boy Toy t-shirt! Classic May/September couple. I wonder if "kept man" is less insulting in LA as its been common to the point of cliche for young artists/actors to hook up with older breadwinners, regardless of gender or sexuality. AKA, see Brad Pitt for more details!
Quote from: Christopher Brady;1058489They're worse because the emasculate a man. Slut and whore don't take anything away from a woman. Hell, men LOVE sluts and whores, for some of us, they seem to be the only type of woman we can get.
They're not worse. Opa's right they're equivalent. Slut & Whore take away a lot because they're puritanical words chastising women for enjoying her sexuality and decrying her as dirty and lesser. And all the "slut power" nonsense does ZERO to help and fools nobody. It's like nigga vs. nigger. "Reclaim it" all you like, but everybody knows what's being said and its just embarrassing. Instead of changing colors of the elephant in the room, let's just get rid of the elephant.
And yes, hetero men love women who enjoy sex and wear sexy clothing. If all you can get is women who enjoy sex and being sexy, that must be a terrible burden! How will you survive without women who don't enjoy sex and wear sack cloths?
Also FUCK those stupid words! Why the hell would men want women to NOT wear sexy clothes and NOT be happy about enjoying sex??? It seems so utterly self-defeating and idiotic. Call me crazy, but I'd rather more Barbarella and less whatever the SJWs are selling.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1058567I've heard all of those terms used with snark and sarcasm, and being an outsider, I was never sure how much the dark humor was universally enjoyed vs. how many of those insults landed amid the banter.
Human mating behavior and reproduction is, like every other mammal, asymmetric, so it's weird that you would expect the language surrounding it to be.
On topic, why the heck should WotC be some sort of master authority over all conventions? That makes no sense. Just because they're the biggest company at a con doesn't mean they own the con.
I love Barbarella! :D
And yes, California is special... :) Didion was right when she said it was at the end of civilization, so everything goes. Very "Dancers at the End of Time."
Anyhoo, my point is made (the earth is old, and being mean to each other is almost as old, so you all can catch undue stick here, regardless of identities,). On with the show! ;)
Quote from: Motorskills;1058491Yeah, not buying any of that nonsense, sounds like bizarro aggressive incel stuff.
So? The facts don't care about your belief or not. Go bury your head in the sand, doesn't change the truth.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1058567They're not worse. Opa's right they're equivalent. Slut & Whore take away a lot because they're puritanical words chastising women for enjoying her sexuality and decrying her as dirty and lesser. And all the "slut power" nonsense does ZERO to help and fools nobody. It's like nigga vs. nigger. "Reclaim it" all you like, but everybody knows what's being said and its just embarrassing. Instead of changing colors of the elephant in the room, let's just get rid of the elephant.
Incorrect. Slut can be used as a badge of honour. Gigolo has only ever had negative connotations. That alone makes it worse.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;1058598Slut can be used as a badge of honour.
AFAIK it isn't. It has been thrown back in the faces of the Bradys of this world via Slutwalks etc, but to assume that's a badge of honour is to ignore the reason for the Slutwalk protest happening in the first place.
And that's got nothing to do with the progress women have made in determining their own (level of) sexuality - the cover of every glamour magazine proudly advertises articles in that regard.
Quote from: Omega;1057870I wonder how "Fantastic" Loter feels now?
Given that Gencon promoted his products and then ban the person he viciously assaulted, probably pretty fantastic about the SJW infiltration of the hobby.
Quote from: Motorskills;1058735AFAIK it isn't.
The terms "slut" and "whore" are most certainly used as welcome identity words by many members of some circles, particularly within the BDSM community. Many members of that community are derisive of both slut-shaming and the sort of slut-pride that is a backlash to shaming.
Let's keep this on topic.
And...it's over.
https://boundingintocomics.com/2019/05/09/matt-loter-issues-apology-for-physically-confronting-jeremy-hambly-aka-the-quartering-at-gencon-2018/
[video=youtube;ASc2EPZBIoA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASc2EPZBIoA[/youtube]
So does anyone know what the court actually ruled?
Quote from: TJS;1088732So does anyone know what the court actually ruled?
Settled out of court.
Quote from: Mistwell;1088735Settled out of court.
So it's all a bit of a nothing really.
Quote from: TJS;1088757So it's all a bit of a nothing really.
Hambly got Loter to publicly retract the slandering of Hambly as a Nazi and apologize for the assault. That, in SJW Land, is a Big Fucking Deal. Loter admitted he was wrong, and to SJWs that is tantamount to saying that God made a mistake. It's a violation of the Narrative, and that fucks with their brainmeats, which is the win here. Mild as it may seem, this proves that Lawfare works as a remedy to SJW bullshit.
A beautiful ending to a story like this, would be:
SJW punches dude they don't like. Then dude they don't like, beats their ass good.
Happy, happy, happy!!! Haha!!!
This is good. The law is there (ideally) as a buffer to get restitution without a spiral of immediate and unrestrained violence. It holds society together during times of strain. :)
Quote from: Razor 007;1088775A beautiful ending to a story like this, would be:
SJW punches dude they don't like. Then dude they don't like, beats their ass good.
Happy, happy, happy!!! Haha!!!
Nope. Its actually better to not fight back. That way if the attacker tries to claim you attacked then the cops will look at both and have a darn good idea who's who. Saved my dad once.
Quote from: Bradford C. Walker;1088771Hambly got Loter to publicly retract the slandering of Hambly as a Nazi and apologize for the assault. That, in SJW Land, is a Big Fucking Deal. Loter admitted he was wrong, and to SJWs that is tantamount to saying that God made a mistake. It's a violation of the Narrative, and that fucks with their brainmeats, which is the win here. Mild as it may seem, this proves that Lawfare works as a remedy to SJW bullshit.
Easily explained away as a guy without crowdfunding being unwilling to risk court. This isn't likely to change anyone's mind.
Meh. I don't see the win here. The scumbag committed assault and the cops let it go, then the civil lawsuit results in a YouTube retraction. I doubt the SJWs are going to view this as a loss. Their hero punched "the Nazi", got away with it, but had to make an apology video we all know is fake.
To be fair the only part of the settlement we know of is the apology part which I believe was mentioned as being part of the settelment so possibly more happend behind the scenes also the attacker lost his job so wouldent say he came close to getting away scott free.
For many respectable people, an arrest record, or even a report like this, implicating them in a crime, may be seen as punishment. For scum like Loter, he probably sees it as a badge of honor. I'm not all that respectable myself.
Quote from: Razor 007;1088775A beautiful ending to a story like this, would be:
SJW punches dude they don't like. Then dude they don't like, beats their ass good.
Happy, happy, happy!!! Haha!!!
A better ending is the SJW punches somebody and gets shot.
Quote from: Lurtch;1088826A better ending is the SJW punches somebody and gets shot.
Who does that kind if idiocy really benefit? I get that you don't like the other side, but advocating for escalating violence is wrong.
Quote from: HappyDaze;1088872Who does that kind if idiocy really benefit? I get that you don't like the other side, but advocating for escalating violence is wrong.
Ending an assailant's assault is the ultimate deescalation of violence. The benefit? The assailant isn't around to assault someone else.
Quote from: kythri;1088874Ending an assailant's assault is the ultimate deescalation of violence. The benefit? The assailant isn't around to assault someone else.
There are better ways. In the example that this stems from, no significant injuries were suffered. Are you seriously suggesting it would have been better to kill the asshole that threw punches?
Seriously? Yeah. The world is not better off for the continued existence of Matt Loter, or any other thug who would violently assault someone like that piece of shit did.
The world would be better off if more thugs were ended, such that tales of their demise serve as a deterrent to further thuggery.
Stop defending pieces of shit like Loter.
I got into fights as a teen, and my dad slapped me in the head one day to remind me that the wrong person might have a gun. Even if I didn't start the fight, its always possible the other person might end the fight with a bullet. You never know who's packing and ready to rock.
As for shooting violent SJWs, I would have vociferously denounced that a few years ago, but today, its pretty clear that political violence is the future of the culture war in the Western world. The MSM in the USA and the UK cheer on violence as peachy keen when the Left does it, including having political violence celebrated on TV shows, so we are at a moment when the mainstreaming of attacking people who disagree with you is defined as virtuous and heroic.
It's not rocket science to see where this trend leads.
[video=youtube;PGbagxHWaTg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGbagxHWaTg[/youtube]
Quote from: Spinachcat;1088879I got into fights as a teen, and my dad slapped me in the head one day to remind me that the wrong person might have a gun. Even if I didn't start the fight, its always possible the other person might end the fight with a bullet. You never know who's packing and ready to rock.
As for shooting violent SJWs, I would have vociferously denounced that a few years ago, but today, its pretty clear that political violence is the future of the culture war in the Western world. The MSM in the USA and the UK cheer on violence as peachy keen when the Left does it, including having political violence celebrated on TV shows, so we are at a moment when the mainstreaming of attacking people who disagree with you is defined as virtuous and heroic.
It's not rocket science to see where this trend leads.
Greetings!
I agree, Spinachcat. Being now in the *adult* world, you don't have to be involved with an SJW to potentially get blasted by an opponent. Big city, the country, the ghetto--it doesn't matter. When someone threatens violence, you can stand the fuck by. Some guy tried to rob a convenience store. A woman customer pulled a pistol from her purse and shot the fucker dead right there on the spot. Some jackass assaulted a man at a bar. The man that was beaten down went outside to his truck, and returned minutes later and unloaded a .45 against his attacker, killing him instantly. Some punk decided to attack a man wearing a MAGA hat in a parking lot. The man wearing the MAGA hat drew a fucking sword, and stabbed the man that attacked him, and put him in the hospital in critical condition.
Of course, a story I especially enjoy--a Marine was walking along the street with his girlfriend, in some neighborhood in, I think Florida. FIVE thugs approached the Marine and his girl, one of the thugs being armed with a pistol, and another had a knife. The young Marine disarmed the man with the pistol, and proceeded to shoot and kill three of the thugs right there on the spot, and critically injured a fourth thug. The fifth thug ran for his life, and was caught a short time later and arrested by local police.:D
Getting stupid and thinking you have a big dick with other adult men can rapidly prove to be fatal to you, in many circumstances, with many different men. Loter is lucky he attacked a garden-variety You-Tube Geek. I know people that would have pulled a .45 immediately and shot the fucker down, just like that.
In such circumstances, how do you know such an attacker *isn't* armed? If you grapple with such a thug, you can't be certain of being victorious. If the thug gets a lucky shot in you, stunning you and sending you to the ground helplessly, what do you think might happen then? Stomping you to jello, a bottle to the face, let alone drawing a knife or a firearm, are all possibilities. All of which brings concern that it can be entirely far more advantageous to be armed, and simply kill such a thug, ending the confrontation immediately, and in your favour. Many states have lethal force laws supporting precisely such a response against attack. In the event of some states that do not have such supportive laws, at the end of the day the armed citizen is alive and victorious, while the thug is fucking dead.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: Spinachcat;1088879It's not rocket science to see where this trend leads.
Lessons only last when people believe there are actually consequences.
Change the threat matrix (no jail time for assault on unsympathetic people) and you change the lesson. Because it legitimately no longer applies in its original form.
Humans don't have an intrinsic moral nature when it comes to dealing with your opposition. To your own, yes, you have an intrinsic moral nature when it comes to that which you see as like you; that you value; that you love. But not to anyone you other.
Once it's clear that preferred option A and preferred option B are absolutely 100% mutually incompatible, there is no compromise which isn't empty. At that point, eventually, there must be one option wholly discarded by some means.
The only thing more intolerable than someone completely losing, is to never allow a victor's peace to occur.
Quote from: HappyDaze;1088872Who does that kind if idiocy really benefit? I get that you don't like the other side, but advocating for escalating violence is wrong.
I'm not calling for escalating violence. I'm calling to ending violence. If people think punching Nazis is great and every person they don't like is a Nazi, I support protecting myself and my family from thugs.
I fully support self-protection and protection of one's family and property. I'm all good with "the Chicago way" in regards to legitimate self-defense.
But this conversation is exactly why I abhor ALL political violence. Eventually all roads lead to the justification of revenge and retaliation.
That's not the America (or the Western civilization) I believe in, but me just saying that feels very naive these days.
Quote from: SHARK;1088882In such circumstances, how do you know such an attacker *isn't* armed?
How do you know anyone isn't armed in any circumstance? The best solution is to shoot everyone you encounter in case they're packing. They can't shoot you if you shoot them first.
Quote from: kythri;1088878Stop defending pieces of shit like Loter.
There is a difference between defending his shitty actions and defending his life. I've put my own safety in jeopardy more than once to stop one asshole from seriously hurting another asshole.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1088887I fully support self-protection and protection of one's family and property. I'm all good with "the Chicago way" in regards to legitimate self-defense.
But this conversation is exactly why I abhor ALL political violence. Eventually all roads lead to the justification of revenge and retaliation.
That's not the America (or the Western civilization) I believe in, but me just saying that feels very naive these days.
Greetings!
I agree, my friend. It is sad. I have on more than one occasion intervened in violent situations where I was unarmed. Fortunately, the other men involved were I don't know, either sufficiently intimidated by me or inspired by my conviction and demands made upon them, that they quickly complied with my demands. In such circumstances, the police soon arrived and took over. A police Sergeant thanked me for my dedication and courage in intervening in such a circumstance, and calibrating my own use of force to secure the situation. At the time, though, my wife reminded me that I was stubbornly old fashioned and heroic--and that if either such men in these situations where I subdued them and intervened had been armed with firearms, I would be fucked.:D
I know, I know. On one hand, my interventions were risky and perhaps even foolish--but as I explained to my wife, I was raised to stand up for what is right. I was not raised to stand idlely by, "waiting for the authorities". If a man is being robbed near me, I rush to their side to help them. If a neighbor woman is screaming and crying for help, yeah, I'm at the door, demanding answers. I cannot be any other way.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: kythri;1088878The world would be better off if more thugs were ended, such that tales of their demise serve as a deterrent to further thuggery.
Since it's a gaming forum...
Quote from: The Lord of the RingsMany that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement.
But I'm sure that author was some damned progressive.
Quote from: HappyDaze;1088892There is a difference between defending his shitty actions and defending his life. I've put my own safety in jeopardy more than once to stop one asshole from seriously hurting another asshole.
If somebody comes up behind me and starts punching me, am o supposed to know when he stops? When am I allowed to defend myself. I don't fetishise violence. Nobody should commit violence towards anybody. But, I believe in self defense. In 2016, we had hoodlums jumping on cars and breaking windows of Trump supporters. If I go to a Trump rally on 2020, and some thug takes a bat and starts attacking my family, what sort of defense am I allowed to do?
I will never proactively harm anybody with violence. If you try to hurt me or hurt my family, I will kill that person.
We have the left turning people to punch people, out of nowhere, into heroes. We have billion dollar corporations supporting political violence (Burger King, major media and entertainment companies, etc).
Here are the facts: the Left wants political violence. They think they are Harry Potter or in a Marvel movie. They all do their clapter bit about fighting Nazis, and they define anybody that disagrees with them as a Nazi, so all forms of resistance is valid
Violence is cheered.
If somebody commits violence against me or my family I will kill them. I don't care that it makes you uncomfortable. You need to tell your side to stop punching people, hitting people with bike locks, or taking clubs to cars holding people trying to excercise their first amendment rights
And this goes for the Right. If I saw a proud boy thug harming somebody I'll use force to protect them as well.
Quote from: HappyDaze;1088872Who does that kind if idiocy really benefit? I get that you don't like the other side, but advocating for escalating violence is wrong.
Escalating violence? Are you joking? You have a right to defend yourself. So you should take a beating and just hope its just a beating. Hope you aren't killed or permanently injured? What total idiocy.
Blame the victim.
How about if you don't want to possibly get shot & die- then don't attack someone.
Quote from: HappyDaze;1088892There is a difference between defending his shitty actions and defending his life. I've put my own safety in jeopardy more than once to stop one asshole from seriously hurting another asshole.
Loter forfeit his own safety when he decided to violently assault someone else. He's lucky he didn't attack someone ready to deescalate the situation.
Stop defending pieces of shit like Loter.
Quote from: Tanin Wulf;1088897But I'm sure that author was some damned progressive.
I didn't say I was eager to do any such thing. I just have a lower threshold of tolerance for thuggish assholes who want to violently assault others - or, more specifically, me.
I'm not eager to be put in a situation where such action is needed. I truly hope it never happens, but I'm not going to allow someone to violate me like that.
Quote from: kythri;1088903Loter forfeit his own safety when he decided to violently assault someone else. He's lucky he didn't attack someone ready to deescalate the situation.
Stop defending pieces of shit like Loter.
Greetings!
Good points, Kythri. Over here in Idaho, our Governor and the powers that be are strong supporters of citizens being armed. The Governor just signed into law and the state constitution allowing every lawful citizen to carry firearms *concealed* without permits or other BS hoops to jump through. Citizens can already freely be armed in their home, in their vehicles, or on their person in the open, as they desire. Gun ownership is high in this state, for both men and women. People here are very nice and polite to each other.:D
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: Blood Axe;1088900Escalating violence? Are you joking? You have a right to defend yourself. So you should take a beating and just hope its just a beating. Hope you aren't killed or permanently injured? What total idiocy.
Blame the victim.
How about if you don't want to possibly get shot & die- then don't attack someone.
We have a situation that was resolved without anyone dying. I'm responding to someone that said a better resolution would have involved a death. I'm not saying that self-defense is wrong; I'm saying that the belief that an outcome that ends in someone's death is better than one that does not is wrong.
Quote from: Lurtch;1088898You need to tell your side
I have a side? OK...
My side is that a situation of one asshole punching another guy that results in both of them living on without any permanent injuries is a better outcome than one where one (or both) of them are killed.
Quote from: HappyDaze;1088909We have a situation that was resolved without anyone dying. I'm responding to someone that said a better resolution would have involved a death. I'm not saying that self-defense is wrong; I'm saying that the belief that an outcome that ends in someone's death is better than one that does not.
Sure that's the best outcome. But who is most responsible if it doesnt work out that way? The attacker. If he doesn't commit a crime, a violent assault, then he probably wont be shot & killed by someone defending themselves from that assault. Do I want someone to die? NO. But if its a choice between a violent thug like Matt Loter and someone he attacked without any reason- then let it be Matt and people like him.
If violent criminals stop a second and think "Hey, my victim might be armed and I could be seriously injured or die. I better not do that. " Is much better than them thinking they can attack, permanently injure or possibly kill someone with impunity. No one has to take a beating and "just hope for the best". If you think you will be badly injured or possibly killed you have every right to defend yourself with deadly force. I live in a state that is "stand your ground/castle doctrine" and conceal carry- if I was suddenly attacked unprovoked from behind by an unseen assailant(like it appears in the Mat Loter case) I would respond with deadly force.
Quote from: kythri;1088903Loter forfeit his own safety when he decided to violently assault someone else. He's lucky he didn't attack someone ready to deescalate the situation.
Stop defending pieces of shit like Loter.
Exactly!
Quote from: Blood Axe;1088915Sure that's the best outcome. But who is most responsible if it doesnt work out that way? The attacker. If he doesn't commit a crime, a violent assault, then he probably wont be shot & killed by someone defending themselves from that assault. Do I want someone to die? NO. But if its a choice between a violent thug like Matt Loter and someone he attacked without any reason- then let it be Matt and people like him.
If violent criminals stop a second and think "Hey, my victim might be armed and I could be seriously injured or die. I better not do that. " Is much better than them thinking they can attack, permanently injure or possibly kill someone with impunity. No one has to take a beating and "just hope for the best". If you think you will be badly injured or possibly killed you have every right to defend yourself with deadly force. I live in a state that is "stand your ground/castle doctrine" and conceal carry- if I was suddenly attacked unprovoked from behind by an unseen assailant(like it appears in the Mat Loter case) I would respond with deadly force.
I'm not arguing against you on any of that, and I'm glad to see that you prefer a "nobody has to die" resolution. In this case, the attacked moved to evade the attacker and was successful so there was no need for deadly force. That's not to say that the attacked was obligated to retreat, but it did lead to the best outcome here.
Quote from: Blood Axe;1088915Sure that's the best outcome. But who is most responsible if it doesnt work out that way? The attacker. If he doesn't commit a crime, a violent assault, then he probably wont be shot & killed by someone defending themselves from that assault. Do I want someone to die? NO. But if its a choice between a violent thug like Matt Loter and someone he attacked without any reason- then let it be Matt and people like him.
If violent criminals stop a second and think "Hey, my victim might be armed and I could be seriously injured or die. I better not do that. " Is much better than them thinking they can attack, permanently injure or possibly kill someone with impunity. No one has to take a beating and "just hope for the best". If you think you will be badly injured or possibly killed you have every right to defend yourself with deadly force. I live in a state that is "stand your ground/castle doctrine" and conceal carry- if I was suddenly attacked unprovoked from behind by an unseen assailant(like it appears in the Mat Loter case) I would respond with deadly force.
Greetings!
Indeed. What if the other fellow was married, and had his infant child cradled in his arms while his wife went to the bar to get them some drinks or a bite to eat? Hyperbole, perhaps, but it isn't hyperbole to know that young children get killed also by thugs all the time.
Beyond that, what if the guy Loter had attacked--what if his attacker's blows had connected strongly to his head, and caused bleeding on the brain, or the loss of an eye? Serious consequences can result from even a few physical strikes made by a man that is strong, and well-trained.
Fortunately, Loter is a clown, but even clowns also can get in unexpected blows that can cause sudden damage that can be serious or life-threatening.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: HappyDaze;1088918I'm not arguing against you on any of that, and I'm glad to see that you prefer a "nobody has to die" resolution. In this case, the attacked moved to evade the attacker and was successful so there was no need for deadly force. That's not to say that the attacked was obligated to retreat, but it did lead to the best outcome here.
I agree with you there. I certainly prefer no one to die.
Too bad Loter did not spend some time in cage for his attack, as I doubt he has been discouraged from repeating his actions.
Quote from: SHARK;1088919Greetings!
Indeed. What if the other fellow was married, and had his infant child cradled in his arms while his wife went to the bar to get them some drinks or a bite to eat? Hyperbole, perhaps, but it isn't hyperbole to know that young children get killed also by thugs all the time.
Beyond that, what if the guy Loter had attacked--what if his attacker's blows had connected strongly to his head, and caused bleeding on the brain, or the loss of an eye? Serious consequences can result from even a few physical strikes made by a man that is strong, and well-trained.
Fortunately, Loter is a clown, but even clowns also can get in unexpected blows that can cause sudden damage that can be serious or life-threatening.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
If attacked unexpectedly, especially from behind in the head, someone can easily suffer permanent injury or death. The victim could have been knocked unconscious and then suffer a head injury from striking the floor. Im glad that wasn't the case here. Loter is a scumbag.
Whag is interesting is a lack of survival skills from many of the more violent SJWs. It is as if theg forget jow prevalent guns are in tne US. One of these days one of them will come across a trigger happy person with tragic results.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1088802Meh. I don't see the win here. The scumbag committed assault and the cops let it go, then the civil lawsuit results in a YouTube retraction. I doubt the SJWs are going to view this as a loss. Their hero punched "the Nazi", got away with it, but had to make an apology video we all know is fake.
The point was made, and that was the point.
Quote from: HappyDaze;1088909We have a situation that was resolved without anyone dying. I'm responding to someone that said a better resolution would have involved a death. I'm not saying that self-defense is wrong; I'm saying that the belief that an outcome that ends in someone's death is better than one that does not is wrong.
Quote from: HappyDaze;1088911My side is that a situation of one asshole punching another guy that results in both of them living on without any permanent injuries is a better outcome than one where one (or both) of them are killed.
I'm in the same boat, and while I understand engaging in violence to defend oneself, I'm somewhat disturbed at how... enthusiastic people are being about it here.
Quote from: Blood Axe;1088915If violent criminals stop a second and think "Hey, my victim might be armed and I could be seriously injured or die. I better not do that. "
The problem is this depends on violent criminals
actually stopping a second to think, which they mostly don't. Enforcement by example and deterrent only works on reasonable people, and no matter how many SJWs face the consequences the rest will continue believing it could never happen to them.
Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1089038I'm somewhat disturbed at how... enthusiastic people are being about it here.
Please don't conflate a general lack of interest in the lifespan of criminal thugs with enthusiasm for their short lifespan.