Quote from: Abyssal MawWait, by cave do you mean, keep screwing with you?

Nothing to see here. Got anything else?

Quote from: RPGPunditMy favorite word is "RPGPundit".

  How funny... my favourite word's a synonym of yours.

Quote from: RPGPunditReally? Well I've been running games for far too long to be fooled by the idea that "we don't have a skill list because you can make your own skills!" is going to give more choices rather than just more confusion and fuzzy-gaming.

I don't think you've ever read any of his games.

Quote from: RPGPunditWell I've been running games for far too long to be fooled by the idea that "we don't have a skill list because you can make your own skills!" is going to give more choices rather than just more confusion and fuzzy-gaming.

To me, you either base everything off attribute rolls, or you write down a fucking skill list. You don't choose the lazy or artsy-pretentious way out of creating "do it yourself skill lists" so shitheads can try to push universal-use-skills ("um.. i'll put all 9 skill points into my "trained as a ninja superhero who can do anything and knows anything" skill") on the game or people will just have to thumb through a D20 book to try to figure out practical skills anyways.

Wow.  Utter ignorance, this.

In general though, I do find "no skill list/make up your own skills and abilities and stuff!" to be a lot less cool than it was in say.. 1996.

Quote from: Abyssal MawIn general though, I do find "no skill list/make up your own skills and abilities and stuff!" to be a lot less cool than it was in say.. 1996.

I gave them a chance very early on (OTE).

I do not like them, and will pretty much actively avoid any game that has them as a feature beyond providing categorical skills.

Droog, Abyssal maw, you're both dicks. Thanks for turning 90% of my thread into a prepubescent rant fest.

Quote from: Dominus NoxDroog, Abyssal maw, you're both dicks. Thanks for turning 90% of my thread into a prepubescent rant fest.

My pleasure, KKK-Man. Looks like AM has given up, so it's yours again.

Quote from: RPGPunditReally? Well I've been running games for far too long to be fooled by the idea that "we don't have a skill list because you can make your own skills!" is going to give more choices rather than just more confusion and fuzzy-gaming.

To me, you either base everything off attribute rolls, or you write down a fucking skill list. You don't choose the lazy or artsy-pretentious way out of creating "do it yourself skill lists" so shitheads can try to push universal-use-skills ("um.. i'll put all 9 skill points into my "trained as a ninja superhero who can do anything and knows anything" skill") on the game or people will just have to thumb through a D20 book to try to figure out practical skills anyways.

RPGPundit

I don't like DIY skills either. In systems I like (D20, GURPS), skills help create a framework for the world by providing small, well-aligned subsystems.

I want my game rules to function partly as a "physics engine" that describes how the world operates on a non-literary level.

Skill/attribute lists also provide a uniform level of granularity. In DIY systems, one person can take a laundry list of thieving skills (pick lock, pick pocket, case joint, fence goods, etc.) and another character can have "Master Thief"

If the game uses points or some other kind of purchase system the guy who took the long, detailed list probably ended up a *worse* thief (this criticism is partially leveled at the balancing mechanism, but my fundamental complaint is the lack of a baseline level of granularity).

DIY skill/attribute don't bother me in lightweight games like RISUS or... Toon... and some of the DIY super powers in V&V didn't bother me too much. But as a foundation for a game, it seems like something's missing.

Cheers,
-E.

Quote from: droogMy pleasure, KKK-Man. Looks like AM has given up, so it's yours again.

 :fu2:, asshole.

(Boy, I just love being on a forum where I can do something like that once in a while. it is so refreshing to just be able to go off on some deserving waste of protoplasm now and then without having to hold back.)

It is, isn't it?

Weirdly though, when I go on RPGnet I find myself wanting to continuously tell people to go and fuck themselves largely because I can't.  But when I come on here I feel the need significantly less.

Similarly, if I'm on a forum when one can tell religious people that they're psychotic freaks who should be kept away from young children I tend not to but everytime I run into someone religious on RPGnet I get the urge to point and laugh.

It's my natural contrarian tendencies coming to the fore, if I'm told I can't do something and I'm not satisfied as to why, then suddenly all I want to do is that thing I'm forbidden from doing.

Quote from: droogNothing wrong with only liking one sort of game. I played one game exclusively for years. That's RuneQuest. I thought it was the perfect system. Now I'm older, wiser, and more exposed to different things, I realise I was wrong. That doesn't negate many fun-filled years playing RQ, though.

Spot on, I used to play nothing but Gurps, whatever I ran I ran it in Gurps.  I had years of fun with it.

Now?  To be honest I don't like the system at all.

Does that make me wrong earlier?  Nope.  Does that mean I missed out earlier?  Nope, I had great gaming.

But tastes change, you get exposed to new stuff, droog is right, there is no perfect system, though sometimes there is the perfect system for right now or for that lesbian ninja pirates game that you want to run next (coming soon from an indie designer I have no doubt, LesbianNinjaPirates the rpg).

But overall, the form of the perfect system exists only in the Platonic sphere and all real world rpgs are but imperfect reflections of it.  Except maybe CoC, that may be just about perfect provided you ignore a few bits and bodge on a couple of house rules...