Quote from: estar;597180The same reason why having magic item shops isn't a big deal in the Majestic Wilderlands. They make sense given my premises, they are just one of many things a wealthy player can spend money on, and finally owning the biggest plus sword doesn't solve every problem that wealthy character face or even a majority of them. In some circumstance getting what the player wants involves acquiring a lot real estate. For others being able to build a big damn castle will help achieve their goal. For others still being able to outfit caravans to all points of the compass is the pathway to what they want to achieve.

what kind of item power to frequency distribution does the MW have?  I find that one of the issues I run into is merchants having access to powerful magic items.

Quote from: Kiero;597143They are one of the aspects I hate most about the standard tropes of D&D. Magic items aren't magical at all when you can pop round a store in any reasonable-sized settlement and exchange them.

Not only that, they perpetuate a much higher level of magic and gear-dependence than I favour in a setting. Any setting where "this sword my Dad used in the last war" is a laughable sentiment because you've just looted something much better off an opponent isn't one I'm particularly interested in.

Agreed. I only quibble with one thing: it's perhaps a standard trope of post-TSR D&D.

TSR D&D DMGs explicitly recommends against magic shops, especially for beginner GMs. They also note the drawbacks about Monty Haul campaigns and being quite generous with magical items.

Quote from: Opaopajr;597229Agreed. I only quibble with one thing: it's perhaps a standard trope of post-TSR D&D.

TSR D&D DMGs explicitly recommends against magic shops, especially for beginner GMs. They also note the drawbacks about Monty Haul campaigns and being quite generous with magical items.

My anecdotal experience would agree with you; it certainly never occurred to my group playing AD&D2e in the mid-nineties that you could have magic-marts for these things. Indeed no one ever deviated from random treasure, meaning you could end up with absolutely anything. Rather than the expectation that you'd be kitted out with appropriate gear.

As another anecdotal data point, in our 4e game there's no magic item exchange either, indeed we used the Inherent Bonuses rule to remove all the +n items altogether. Every character had three signature items, and that was it. There's no loot in the game either.

Quote from: LordVreeg;597191what kind of item power to frequency distribution does the MW have?  I find that one of the issues I run into is merchants having access to powerful magic items.

In the Majestic Wilderlands, Magic items are a luxury item similar to silk, cinnamon, and porcelain in our own history. The cost of a item is dominated by how long it takes the magic-user to create it. Which usually overwhelms the material cost. The more powerful effects take longer to enchant and you can't enchant additional effects in parallel only in series. So more powerful items naturally take more time.

The economy of selling magic item is basically four tiers.

Common which are nearly always avaliable as a luxury good. Like a +1 sword or a healing potion. You can by these from merchants specializing in magic items which are found in major cities. About as often you find a silk merchant.

Uncommon which are sold by merchants but quantities are limited. More often these items are commissioned to be picked up later. +2 swords are in this category as well as bags of holding.

Rare items can only be commissioned or bought on the auction circuit. And to access this you need to know the right people.

Unique items are not sold or auctioned as either they are holy artifacts or arcane items with a doom on it. In short,they can only be used if the person is the one to use them. This has nothing to do with power level.

The net effect is that by midlevel players can buy a low level suite of magic items like +1 gear. By name level player would bought up to +2 gear and maybe have something made that +3 or better. But this usually sucks up nearly all their silver.

Among merchant it is a luxury item and to be honest it is not that big of an advantage when trying to go up against a mid or high level character.

In my campaigns, there are a lot of things that player want to spend coin on. Most chose to use their small hoard to build something rather than go on a magic item buying spree. Largely because by name level the scope of their challenges have broadened so much that bring able to kill most everything doesn't solve their problems.

And it been this way since the first campaigns I ran using the Wilderlands 30 years ago.

Just to further clarify my point: I am not opposed to the buying and selling of magic items.

I am opposed to the idea of a magic item merchant or bazaar in which PCs can walk in and go "how much for the +3 frostbrand over there?"

I like to keep my magic items rare, and transactions involving them even rarer.

Quote from: The Butcher;597343Just to further clarify my point: I am not opposed to the buying and selling of magic items.

I am opposed to the idea of a magic item merchant or bazaar in which PCs can walk in and go "how much for the +3 frostbrand over there?"

I like to keep my magic items rare, and transactions involving them even rarer.

Agree,  the only issue I ever see is when the magic item creation system and treasure distribution doesn't reflect the rarity of a +3 frostbrand. Or whatever the cutoff the referee wants to set. If it takes a year to make a healing potion and there is only a 1% of rolling one for treasure then it makes sense that even the least magic item is rare and valuable.

Quote from: Mr. GC;596508if you cannot convert gold into magic items, it is basically worthless flavor text to be entirely ignored.

Sure, ecause why would a character ever need to eat, pay for a room at an inn, hire assistants, bribe someone for information, pay for transportation, or buy clothes?

It's really annoying when all that roleplaying crap gets in the way of figuring out to-hit bonuses huh?

Quote from: TristramEvans;597386Sure, ecause why would a character ever need to eat, pay for a room at an inn, hire assistants, bribe someone for information, pay for transportation, or buy clothes?

It's really annoying when all that roleplaying crap gets in the way of figuring out to-hit bonuses huh?

Let's ignore that any player of any decent level does not need any of those things at all.

You're talking about things that cost a few silvers. You have thousands, tens of thousands, or hundreds of thousands of gold. You spend more on rounding errors than that.

Which you'd know if you were not a moron.

But of course you do not.

Quote from: Mr. GC;597387Let's ignore that any player of any decent level does not need any of those things at all.

You're talking about things that cost a few silvers. You have thousands, tens of thousands, or hundreds of thousands of gold. You spend more on rounding errors than that.

Uh-um. Sure. In a world where the cost of a day's food might be 1 gold piece, bribing people for information is going to be no more than maybe half that. Especially when you're trying to bribe a high-ranking official, a guard stationed at an important location, a presitigious member of the Wizard's Guild or someone else of the sort (a.k.a. the sort of people who are worth bribing in the first place). I guess that's completely realistic, if I wanted to bribe a real-life police chief, I certainly wouldn't expect it to cost me more than 3 dollars or so.

I guess I see why you're so quick and casual at calling others a morons. Takes one to know one, as they say.

Quote from: Premier;597390Uh-um. Sure. In a world where the cost of a day's food might be 1 gold piece, bribing people for information is going to be no more than maybe half that. Especially when you're trying to bribe a high-ranking official, a guard stationed at an important location, a presitigious member of the Wizard's Guild or someone else of the sort (a.k.a. the sort of people who are worth bribing in the first place). I guess that's completely realistic, if I wanted to bribe a real-life police chief, I certainly wouldn't expect it to cost me more than 3 dollars or so.

I guess I see why you're so quick and casual at calling others a morons. Takes one to know one, as they say.

If it does have any significant cost, then you don't do it at all because there are better and more reliable ways of getting that information. A COP runs 1,125. If some guy wants more than 100 per thing, he damn well better be better than direct dialing a greater fucking god (protip: He's not, like at fucking all).

And once you hit double digit numbers you're already paying more than the guy is worth.

Lol at failed real world analogies. In the real world you don't have people getting paid much better than everyone else just running around and if you did, you would pay that police chief the equivalent of 3 dollars for you.

Quote from: estar;597344Agree,  the only issue I ever see is when the magic item creation system and treasure distribution doesn't reflect the rarity of a +3 frostbrand. Or whatever the cutoff the referee wants to set. If it takes a year to make a healing potion and there is only a 1% of rolling one for treasure then it makes sense that even the least magic item is rare and valuable.

Pretty much where i was going.
Though it is more like a frequency distribution than a stright cut off.
I ran a few very low magic campaigns (my bronze age d20 is still very low magic) and high magic back in HS, but currently I run one where lower power magic is somewhat common, but higher level stuff is very. very rare, and since item creation is high-level artificer work (in a city of 40k, 2k are void-sensitive, but there may be 80 who can write magic into books, 40-ish who can make scrolls, 10 who can make potions, and 0-2 who can artifice items, if they hardcast them.
Now, this amount is actually off, since some 15% of casters but 40% of artificers learn the Ritual Casting skill, which can allow a caster to use more time and reagents to cast at a slightly higher power level.

All of this just means that potions and scrolls are pretty readily available, as our items with material advantages, but even the equiv of a +1 sword is rare, and that frostbrand is the equiv of the most powerful weapon found in the current players in a decade.

Quote from: LordVreeg;597151And this is what happen when you have a realized setting that allows the players to adventure to further other, in-setting goals.  Bravo.

More than just that; one of them built a Guildhall and is now the head of the Worshipful Company of Physicians. Another is a tavern owner, a third has invested a sizeable fortune into controlling a huge chunk of London's underworld. Several have invested in trading companies for goods from the continent.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Mr. GC;597387Let's ignore that any player of any decent level does not need any of those things at all.

What level do you have to be to no longer need food?

Quote from: TristramEvans;597727What level do you have to be to no longer need food?

3rd?  I really like the ring of sustenance.  Besides eliminating the need to eat, it makes your sleep more restful so you need less of it.

Quote from: deadDMwalking;5977313rd?  I really like the ring of sustenance.  Besides eliminating the need to eat, it makes your sleep more restful so you need less of it.

Bleah!   No wonder I avoid magic shops ( and a normal frequency distribution)