Quote from: mcbobbo;593126What is your opinion on the idea of a magic shop or similar source of powerful equipment in your game?

Step into the Sorcerer's Supply House on Regal Steet, City-State and browse our Price List

http://batintheattic.com/downloads/Magic%20Costs%20Rev%205.pdf

Quote from: mcbobbo;593126In your fantasy do you allow players to buy and sell magic items as common goods?  Or do they remain specialties?

Common Magic Items are luxury items affordable in small quantities by Adventurers

Uncommon Magic Items are sold on a auction circuit, bidders are nobles and the very wealthy.

Unique Magic Items are well unique each with their own history and methods of changing hands. Typically they are holy created by the gods or items with a fate.

Quote from: Internet Death;593168Ah, that does make sense.  Though I have to say, any sort of conspicuous magic shop would end up being targeted by an intelligent enemy (with henchmen, of course).  If the magic shop "owner" was such a bad-ass, he wouldn't be working a magic shop, he'd be slaying dragons or whatever.

It certainly could be targeted. But much like the gun shop owner (with magic) it isn't really recommended. Also, as I said it need not be an actual shop. Any place you can exchange items or gold for items... even if they work off commissions, and therefore have little to nothing on hand to steal.

Remember, just to make magic items you have to be a spellcaster, typically a primary spellcaster. This makes you a badass by default. Not something some thieves, or especially Rogues should really mess with if they want to live.

Quote from: Mr. GC;593163Edit: Several people have said things to the effect of "No, because he'd be easily robbed."



You wanna mess with that guy? Now consider his guns turn you into toads. You still want some of that? Any sane person would find an easier mark.

I feel compelled to point out that in a mugging, the victim is the defender, ergo, by your logic, he'd be at the disadvantage.

Quote from: taustin;593175I feel compelled to point out that in a mugging, the victim is the defender, ergo, by your logic, he'd be at the disadvantage.

If talking about an actual gunshop owner: In the real world the defender has the advantage because buffs, or magic does not exist and therefore it comes down to stuff like knowing your environment and weapons, both of which a gunshop owner in his shop has plenty of.

If talking about a "Mage Mart" owner: You are still attempting to rob someone with all manner of weapons at their disposal. Assuming you can even get to them, and they aren't being stored on another plane somewhere, or in a Bag of Holding that is then turned inside out and so appears to be a normal empty sack...

You're still attacking a primary spellcaster in their personal demense. And that's the sort of thing that tends to nullify attacker advantage, as even if you can get in there quickly, you likely cannot get where you need to quickly, and so you soon have to answer to an angry Cleric/Druid/Wizard/whatever that demands to know why you interrupted his sexy times with angels/demons/devils/fey/magical beasts/whatever he feels like tapping that night.

Quote from: Internet Death;593145The concept of a "magic shop" is so ludicrous that it actually kind of pisses me off.  Where do you set up this so-called "magic shop" so that it isn't constantly attacked from all sides by brigands and villains who want all that neat stuff?

So you're telling me there are these shops that sell food? And you need this stuff constantly in order to live? How is this not attacked constantly from all sides?


I tend to be fine with magical trinkets being bought and sold in marketplaces and caravans. Big stuff is more gun-runnery as others mentioned.

Quote from: Internet Death;593168Ah, that does make sense.  Though I have to say, any sort of conspicuous magic shop would end up being targeted by an intelligent enemy (with henchmen, of course).  If the magic shop "owner" was such a bad-ass, he wouldn't be working a magic shop, he'd be slaying dragons or whatever.

It no different than any other high value luxury items. The basic restraint is social control. The fact if an individual is that skilled then he or she also has something to lose. If it is a foreigner then it would be likely considered an act of war with all that comes with that. Imagine what would happen if a group from Milan knocked over a porcelain and silk warehouse in Venice owned by one of the Doge's buddies.

In short it not hard to contrive a plausible situation where places you can buy magic item exist just as it is not hard to contrive a plausible situation where they don't exist. Neither possibility is a given with most Fantasy RPGs.

Quote from: Mr. GC;593176If talking about an actual gunshop owner: In the real world the defender has the advantage because buffs, or magic does not exist and therefore it comes down to stuff like knowing your environment and weapons, both of which a gunshop owner in his shop has plenty of.

Oh, but buffs do exist in the real world. They're just technological in nature, instead of magical. I wouldn't bet on the gun shop owner against a SWAT team armed with automatic weapons, body armor, tear gas and night vision gear. All things that the attacker knows when to kit up with, but doesn't walk around with all the time.

Quote from: Mr. GC;593176If talking about a "Mage Mart" owner: You are still attempting to rob someone with all manner of weapons at their disposal. Assuming you can even get to them, and they aren't being stored on another plane somewhere, or in a Bag of Holding that is then turned inside out and so appears to be a normal empty sack...

You're still attacking a primary spellcaster in their personal demense. And that's the sort of thing that tends to nullify attacker advantage, as even if you can get in there quickly, you likely cannot get where you need to quickly, and so you soon have to answer to an angry Cleric/Druid/Wizard/whatever that demands to know why you interrupted his sexy times with angels/demons/devils/fey/magical beasts/whatever he feels like tapping that night.

How does any of that not equally apply to any other defender? There are advantages in any situation for both attacker and defender, and the only advantage to usually matters is knowing more about the enemy than he knows about you.

Don't mind magic "curio" shops. Like any other item, if there are people willing to buy and people willing to sell, trade will happen.

What I don't like is magic wal-marts. In most settings that I care to run, magic is not mass produced and players cannot expect to get whatever item they want off the shelf.

In my game, buying magic is more like buying artwork before they time of printing. People might sell items, but they would be unique. If you wanted a specific item, you would have to have it made.

I run a high magic campaign, and I used to have a problem with players and magic shops. For one thing, when they got high enough level, they would teleport to all the ones they knew and just keep asking me if they had an item they were looking for.

Player: "Do you have a hammer of thunder bolts?"
GM: "Nope"
Player: "Dwarven thrower?"
GM: "Nope"
Player: "Hammer of throwing?"
GM: "Nope"
Player: "I just keep teleporting from place to place until I find a place that has one."
GM: "damn this sucks."

Not only did it not make sense that someone would actually SELL one of these powerful magical items, but it was sucking up a lot of time.

SO! I severely limited the number of magic shops in the game, making them sell mostly spell scrolls, potions and components.

Second, for the six KNOWN magic shops in Faerun, I would roll up the inventory of the shop. If the player would go to the shop, I would have a premade list of what was at the shop. If a powerful item was there, the player was told that there would be an action on a certain day if they wanted to participate.

I wrote an article for Hackjournal (a dragon magazine type publication for the Hackmaster Game published by Kenzer and Company). It has different types of magic shops.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_-Yz6gRJebBU61lkZ5lET-beKMp2RelTmcA5YDuGsHY/edit

Since Ive implemented these rules, I really haven't had a problem.

Quote from: Caesar Slaad;593191What I don't like is magic wal-marts. In most settings that I care to run, magic is not mass produced and players cannot expect to get whatever item they want off the shelf.

I literally DO have a wal-mart in my game called MAGE-MART. The magic items are cheaper and get negatives to saves and very low charges.

LIke I said, I have a high-magic campaign.

Scrolls and potions? Someone might be willing to make one, for the right kind of money. It's going to take at least a week. In a large city, there might be a "shop" with some already made. There might be a couple other things that might qualify, like elven cloaks or boots.

Anything else? There's not enough magic items in existence to justify even a magic item *broker*, let alone an actual shop. There were maybe 20 to 30 magic swords made, total. EVER. In the entire history of the world. Other stuff is even rarer. Just about every magical item in the known world is being discovered by adventurers RIGHT NOW.

It's like saying, in the 1700s, "I've just dug up an ancient transistor radio. Is there a radio or electronics store I could sell it to?"

I remember someone coming up with a "magic shop" that I actually like. It's a gate-hopping wagon driven by what is basically a 19th century huckster. He has potions and scrolls, and sometimes another type of magic item. He may accept coin, but prefers magic or being owed a favor for any item he sells.

Quote from: danbuter;593226I remember someone coming up with a "magic shop" that I actually like. It's a gate-hopping wagon driven by what is basically a 19th century huckster. He has potions and scrolls, and sometimes another type of magic item. He may accept coin, but prefers magic or being owed a favor for any item he sells.

This kind of thing is fine by me, but I don't like the "magic wal-mart" approach in settings, or rule-systems that presume such things are available. I ran a D&D 3e Ptolus campaign, and the presence of magic shops in that just made magic items feel completely pointless to me (and also exposed 3e's well-known issues with Wands).

In general I'm not interested in any setting which features things like "adventurer's guilds".

Huge thumbs down on magic shops.  Thumbs up for shops that would sell rare ingredience and other such oddities like material components and such.

Quote from: Caesar Slaad;593191Don't mind magic "curio" shops. Like any other item, if there are people willing to buy and people willing to sell, trade will happen.

What I don't like is magic wal-marts. In most settings that I care to run, magic is not mass produced and players cannot expect to get whatever item they want off the shelf.

In my game, buying magic is more like buying artwork before they time of printing. People might sell items, but they would be unique. If you wanted a specific item, you would have to have it made.

And this is how I also handle it. A ''magic shop'' is a curio store: a place with a stuffed crocodile, a dusty crystal ball, herbs and spices, an ugly-looking idol, dusty books, old carpets with embroidered stars, and--
-- did you say special merchandise? Here is a pouchful of black lotus: harvested by blind slaves in the deepest jungles. That brass box was recovered from one of the ruined cities on the Plain of Glass, and five men have died to bring it here safely. What does it contain? A mystery; the seals are still unbroken. This here is a magical scimitar: it cuts through sinew and bone like butter. I would not brave the wilderness without it. And I also have a box with these three flasks - one of the drinks restores health and vigour; the second provides a tremendous boost of strength; and the third is an antidote to any poison or disease. Mind that statue, Sir: it kills without notice if bothered. Nasty thing, but useful against thieves. Very good. Which of the above interests you? Or do you wish to sell something? The usurers at the temple will pay within three days if we strike a bargain.