Quote from: AsenRG;1002517I award XP for achieving the character's goals, and learning new things - you tell me which of those three it fits under, and we'll pretend I said that;)!

I would say it's Milestones. But don't really know if the OP would agree.

Quote from: Itachi;1002521I would say it's Milestones. But don't really know if the OP would agree.

Milestone is a moving target depending upon the game and context.  If you do an adventure path thing where you know the characters are going to go from level 5 to about level 10, then just bumping everyone's level up at particular points is a milestone system.  But it's also a milestone system to reverse engineer the XP that would produce about that result, then give it in large chunks when appropriate spots in the adventure are reached, even if this doesn't cause a level bump.  (Typically, this would make more sense in a system with a variety of XP charts and characters of different levels, such as AD&D.)  Also however, it is hardly limited to adventure paths or even plotted adventurers.  If there is a goal set by someone (GM or players, doesn't matter), and you get rewarded for making progress towards that goal separate from the individual activities involved, then that's a milestone variant.  

The metaphor is fairly clear.  You go on a journey.  Doesn't matter what type or what you are doing.  There are things that you do in particular where you might learn something (individual XP).  Then there are mile markers on the way that indicate progress towards but not completion of the goal (milestones).  Then there is reaching the goal (quest rewards).  If using a milestone system, it's not uncommon to treat completion of the goals as just another milestone, but technically its different.  (In practice, if the end of quest rewards are about the same as the milestones, the difference is not relevant.)  Also, consider a GM using only individual XP supplemented by modest quest rewards.  If the GM decides to hand out a part of the quest reward for partial completion at the end of each session, that's also a pseudo milestone reward--though an odd one, as the only "marker" for progress achieved towards the goal is the passage of a session.  

As others have said, none of it matters once the group has a way that works for them.  The patterns above are only usual for talking about getting to that point.

Great explanation, Steven. That's how I see it too.

Quote from: Itachi;1002521I would say it's Milestones. But don't really know if the OP would agree.

Milestone it is, then:D!

Milestones are pretty much just that, markers on a path, or milestones in the software Microsoft Project.  They assume you are on a particular mission or have particular goals, and then you get XP if you reach those milestones.  Usually they are related to a plot and/or 'side goals' related but not critical to the main goal/path/plot, etc.

Early Shadowrun modules were like this, giving a set amount of experience for accomplishing the mission, and then having additional experience based on how stealthy they were, or if they defeated or avoided major enemies, etc.

Aces & Eights has a system that is based on accomplishments, functioning as career goal milestones.  If you are a miner, then you'll get experience for Purchasing Initial Equipment, Staking or Buying a Claim, Starting a Mining Operation, Hiring a Crew, Hitting a Vein, Mechanize Your Operation, Hitting the Motherlode, etc.

The problem with the milestone system is it requires something known to do beforehand.  So if you're just exploring and come across bandits or orcs, what then?  The characters have no mission, they have no plot they are following.  You give a set XP award for the encounter, you're back to "XP for Killing".  Sure, you could plan everything put beforehand I guess, there are 5 things in this forest worth finding worth A, B, C, D, E, 12 possible dangerous random encounters worth F, G, H, I, J, K, L, M, N, O, P, Q, then if they fully explore A, there's sub-rewards R, S, T, U, V, etc...
You almost spend more time defining milestones at that point then you do designing the forest.

Works great for GMs whose players are always have a clear, defined mission to follow.

Quote from: Steven Mitchell;1002285It's very similar to quest rewards in this respect.  A true milestone system, however, is assigned when reaching some particular marker while pursuing a larger quest.  That is, stealing the treasure from the boss orc and/or routing them is in service to a large goal.  In effect, "XP for gold" is a kind of milestone variant that predates the wider concept.

Seems that definition has changed?

All I've ever seen "milestone" referring to is Auto Levelling at key points in a campaign or adventure. Tyranny of Dragons has an Milestone as an optional. Over the course of Hoard of the Dragon Queen the PCs will level up 7 times. About once per what would previously have been a module or threes worth of adventure at the ends of each chapter except 5. Rise of Tiamat has 8 more milestone level ups so the PCs will around level 16 for the final battle and 17 if they survive. Though both modules have sections that can be totally bypassed so YLMV.

Quote from: Omega;1002888Seems that definition has changed?

All I've ever seen "milestone" referring to is Auto Levelling at key points in a campaign or adventure.

Yeah, until this thread I've only seen it used to mean "No XP, PCs level at this point in the adventure"

Quote from: S'mon;1002893Yeah, until this thread I've only seen it used to mean "No XP, PCs level at this point in the adventure"

The concept comes direct from project planning, and probably has entered gaming through multiple paths.  It's entirely possible that the first and/or only references in published material is auto leveling, but the idea has been around as long as programmers have been playing D&D after coming home from work worrying about the Gantt chart.

CRKrueger, that's only a problem with story milestones. With personal milestones, though, what you're describing don't exist. See Marvel Heroic, Lady Blackbird, and PbtA games to see milestones that work on a open/sandbox environment.

For example, see the Wolverine one from Marvel Heroic a couple pages back. His milestones are related to his violent nature and what he does about it. Because of this, it's applicable in any situation the GM comes up. (Though it also works if the GM knows that beforehand and preps situations to test it, Pendragon/Sorcerer-wise)

As I go along, I'm more and more inclined to a very simple XP system where players mostly gain experience just for being in the session.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1003658As I go along, I'm more and more inclined to a very simple XP system where players mostly gain experience just for being in the session.

To what specific goal?

That's how I do it. I give 300 XP (in D&D 5e) as the minimum every session just for showing up, and then some more whenever they make progress towards a goal or defeat a boss, etc.

The reason being that I wanted to give players incentive to explore other ways of solving problems than just murdering every monster. It also lets them spend time roleplaying social and town stuff. Normally that would get them no XP.

Quote from: Willie the Duck;1003699To what specific goal?

That my players determine for themselves what it is their characters consider valuable to do or obtain.

I moved past the minutia tracking of XP about 15 years ago. For a while I used an "encounter point" system that awarded 1-4 points per encounter and required 25 ep to level. Now I mostly eyeball it and do something much akin to milestones or more simply "level per 3 sessions", slower at higher levels or if the players are dragging their feet.

Quote from: Nerzenjäger;1002219Probably the best, even if I don't get to use it often.

*blinks* Where did that come from? That almost looks like my encounter point system I posted on ENWorld back in the day. Copying or great minds?

That's a neat system, although I think I'd steepen the curve and raise the points needed to improve significantly, so the tough encounters are more significant. Figuring out what counts as an encounter also seems significant and in some cases tricky to evenly assess with the points awarded like that.

XP per group (rather than per character) seems a bit generic and inaccurate to me. Different characters may have very different experiences during each event.